[TidesHoss32]

How in the world is Bert Blyleven NOT in the hall of fame?? 287 wins, 3701 strikeouts, and an ERA of 3.31..not to mention, one of the top 3 curveballs EVER.
A few stats..
9th all time in shutouts
5th all time in strikeouts
27th all time in wins, and he is the only pitcher with 3000+ K's and not in the hall of fame.
Two time world series champion ('79 Pirates and '87 Twins)
Two time all star ('73 and '85)
One no hitter ('77)
242 complete games!
1989 comeback player of the year in the AL
So say what you want about Pete Rose. Rose deserves to be in the HOF, but Bert Blyleven not being in, is the biggest injustice without an excuse.
Thoughts?

[Augie Garrido]

15 seasons with double digit loses and 5 losing seasons, in his 22 year career would be my guess. He had several 15-17 loss seasons.

I always thought Blyleven was a tremendous pitcher and one of the best curves ever, but played on not very good teams.

[TidesHoss32]

15 seasons with double digit loses and 5 losing seasons, in his 22 year career would be my guess. He had several 15-17 loss seasons.

I always thought Blyleven was a tremendous pitcher and one of the best curves ever, but played on not very good teams.

I understand the 15 and 17 loss seasons, however you hit the nail on the head, if you're lifetime ERA is 3.31, a lot of those losses wouldnt be your fault. People tend to forget that Nolan Ryan was 8 losses away from 300, had several losing seasons, and several 16-18+ loss seasons as well..case in point, Ryans '87 season when he finished 5th in the Cy Young voting. He had 270 K's, a 2.76 ERA, and an 8-16 record..I do believe that Bert belongs in the HOF though..

[Augie Garrido]

I understand the 15 and 17 loss seasons, however you hit the nail on the head, if you're lifetime ERA is 3.31, a lot of those losses wouldnt be your fault. People tend to forget that Nolan Ryan was 8 losses away from 300, had several losing seasons, and several 16-18+ loss seasons as well..case in point, Ryans '87 season when he finished 5th in the Cy Young voting. He had 270 K's, a 2.76 ERA, and an 8-16 record..I do believe that Bert belongs in the HOF though..

Agree with you. I'll go one step further, lets say if he played on better teams and thus changed his win total 2 wins per season, that would be a difference of 44 more wins, less losses.

Most MLB hitters did not look forward to facing Blyleven 3-4 times a game.

[LWC]

Was this year Bert's last chance? Does he have another year or two?

I can't believe that Roberto Alomar isn't in the hall either!

[TidesHoss32]

Agree with you. I'll go one step further, lets say if he played on better teams and thus changed his win total 2 wins per season, that would be a difference of 44 more wins, less losses.

Most MLB hitters did not look forward to facing Blyleven 3-4 times a game.

Nope..and that curveball was absolutely ridiculous..It was every bit as nasty as Randy Johnsons slider, albeit two different animals..

[TidesHoss32]

Was this year Bert's last chance? Does he have another year or two?

I can't believe that Roberto Alomar isn't in the hall either!

Agreed. People are making too much of this first ballot stuff too. Alomar is a HOF'er too..I think Bert has two more years to get in before it goes to the Veterans, which would be shameful if it goes that far..Not to take away from Andre Dawson, but Alomar and Blyleven both deserve to be in as well, and should have been voted in too..

[Augie Garrido]

Agreed. People are making too much of this first ballot stuff too. Alomar is a HOF'er too..I think Bert has two more years to get in before it goes to the Veterans, which would be shameful if it goes that far..Not to take away from Andre Dawson, but Alomar and Blyleven both deserve to be in as well, and should have been voted in too..

I'm not certain, but doesn't a player have to be out of Baseball for 25 years, to be considered for the Seniors/Veterans committee?

[MSU Eagle]

Pete Rose is still the biggest injustice...

[Westside]

Pete Rose is still the biggest injustice...

I agree Pete Rose deserves to be in the HOF more than anybody.

[Stardust]

For this year, I have to go with Barry Larkin as a bigger injustice.

-.338 career postseason batting average
- the first 30 HR/30 Steal SS in history
- 9 Silver Slugger Awards
- Multiple Gold Gloves
- The Lou Gherig and Roberto Clemente humanitarian awards.

Barry Larkin got screwed!

[Amun-Ra]

For this year, I have to go with Barry Larkin as a bigger injustice.

-.338 career postseason batting average
- the first 30 HR/30 Steal SS in history
- 9 Silver Slugger Awards
- Multiple Gold Gloves
- The Lou Gherig and Roberto Clemente humanitarian awards.

Barry Larkin got screwed!

Oh I agree. Not to mention he was NL MVP one time.

I thought Dawson would go for sure this year and Alomar and Larkin

[Stardust]

Was Larkin MVP twice? Not sure, but I know he was MVP in one of their playoff years, maybe the WS year. But I thought he might have won it during one of the years that the Reds were not very good (which was many, and likely has hurt his HOF vote total)

I agree about Alomar. I think Alomar gets dinged because he was not the friendliest guy, but screw that, he deserves it because of his numbers

[58fan]

What about Shoeless Joe Jackson. Was never proven he done anything wrong and in the world series that the black sox threw he batted way over 300

[Jarons]

For this year, I have to go with Barry Larkin as a bigger injustice.

-.338 career postseason batting average
- the first 30 HR/30 Steal SS in history
- 9 Silver Slugger Awards
- Multiple Gold Gloves
- The Lou Gherig and Roberto Clemente humanitarian awards.

Barry Larkin got screwed!

You beat me to it. Larkin was one of the most underrated players in MLB history, he was one of the first SS to hit for average and field. If he had played in a big market, I think he would be preparing his HOF speech.
I know he was MVP in 1995. I cannot remember any other time he was MVP,unless if it was for a playoff series
Hoss, you are right, Blyleven should have been a HOF long ago.

[Amun-Ra]

Was Larkin MVP twice? Not sure, but I know he was MVP in one of their playoff years, maybe the WS year. But I thought he might have won it during one of the years that the Reds were not very good (which was many, and likely has hurt his HOF vote total)

I agree about Alomar. I think Alomar gets dinged because he was not the friendliest guy, but screw that, he deserves it because of his numbers

Nope, only in 1995.

[LWC]

Agreed. People are making too much of this first ballot stuff too. Alomar is a HOF'er too..I think Bert has two more years to get in before it goes to the Veterans, which would be shameful if it goes that far..Not to take away from Andre Dawson, but Alomar and Blyleven both deserve to be in as well, and should have been voted in too..

On Around the Horn the other day, Jay Mariotti said that he DIDN'T VOTE FOR ANYBODY! His reasoning was that he felt like nobody was 1st ballot worthy. What a turd!

[Stardust]

On Around the Horn the other day, Jay Mariotti said that he DIDN'T VOTE FOR ANYBODY! His reasoning was that he felt like nobody was 1st ballot worthy. What a turd!

I agree, take his vote away from him

[MSU Eagle]

For this year, I have to go with Barry Larkin as a bigger injustice.

-.338 career postseason batting average
- the first 30 HR/30 Steal SS in history
- 9 Silver Slugger Awards
- Multiple Gold Gloves
- The Lou Gherig and Roberto Clemente humanitarian awards.

Barry Larkin got screwed!

Few players get in on their first chance. He will get in one day. He was a great player, but not the best ever.

[Stardust]

Few players get in on their first chance. He will get in one day. He was a great player, but not the best ever.

You are probably right. This was a pretty weak class, so you would have thought this would have been the year

[nky]

Few players get in on their first chance. He will get in one day. He was a great player, but not the best ever.

agreed Larkin was not a first ballot player. There are very few of those. He will get in probably within the next two years

[nky]

On Around the Horn the other day, Jay Mariotti said that he DIDN'T VOTE FOR ANYBODY! His reasoning was that he felt like nobody was 1st ballot worthy. What a turd!

If there is no one he feels deserves it so be it. That is his right as a voter. Go for him for standing up and saying that no one belongs this time

[MSU Eagle]

On Around the Horn the other day, Jay Mariotti said that he DIDN'T VOTE FOR ANYBODY! His reasoning was that he felt like nobody was 1st ballot worthy. What a turd!

This is the problem with the HOF now. It is voted on by a bunch of snobbish Sports Writers, who hold dumb grudges, and never played the game in their lives! I think former players and managers, especially those already in the HOF, should atleast have a strong say in who gets in. Just my opinion.

[Stardust]

This is the problem with the HOF now. It is voted on by a bunch of snobbish Sports Writers, who hold dumb grudges, and never played the game in their lives! I think former players and managers, especially those already in the HOF, should atleast have a strong say in who gets in. Just my opinion.

Good opinion :Thumbs:

I don't believe in this crap of "First Time". If they are on the list "Vote"

[rawlingsfan]

Blylevin should be in the HOF. He also won 15 games by a score of 1-0, that's third all-time. 13th in career IP, 11th in GS, and 9th in SHO.

Alomar, Tommy John (288 career wins), and Jack Morris (incredible post seasons) should all be in also.

My only problem with Larkin is that his numbers are so close to Dave Concepcion's. Both played SS their entire career in the Queen City, both played the games the right way, and were fan favorites. Ozzie Smith is in the HOF an his stats are similar to both....Here's the stats:

Hits- Larkin 2,340 - Concepcion 2,326 - Smith 2,460
Avg.- Larkin .295 - Concepcion .267 - Smith .262
2B- Larkin 441 - Concepcion 389 - Smith 402
HR- Larkin 198 - Concepcion 101 - Smith 28
RBI- Larkin 960 - Concepcion 950 - Smith 793
SB - Larkin 379 - Concepcion 321 - Smith 580
Runs - Larkin 1,329 - Concepcion 993 - Smith 1,257
Gold Gloves - Larkin 3 - Concepcion 5 - Smith 13
All-Star - Larkin 12, Concepcion 9 - Smith 14

I wish they would both get in! They were two of the greatest SS to ever play the game. Had Ozzie Smith not arived on the scene, Concepcion would have won SEVERAL more Gold Gloves.

[TidesHoss32]

Blylevin should be in the HOF. He also won 15 games by a score of 1-0, that's third all-time. 13th in career IP, 11th in GS, and 9th in SHO.

Alomar, Tommy John (288 career wins), and Jack Morris (incredible post seasons) should all be in also.

My only problem with Larkin is that his numbers are so close to Dave Concepcion's. Both played SS their entire career in the Queen City, both played the games the right way, and were fan favorites. Ozzie Smith is in the HOF an his stats are similar to both....Here's the stats:

Hits- Larkin 2,340 - Concepcion 2,326 - Smith 2,460
Avg.- Larkin .295 - Concepcion .267 - Smith .262
2B- Larkin 441 - Concepcion 389 - Smith 402
HR- Larkin 198 - Concepcion 101 - Smith 28
RBI- Larkin 960 - Concepcion 950 - Smith 793
SB - Larkin 379 - Concepcion 321 - Smith 580
Runs - Larkin 1,329 - Concepcion 993 - Smith 1,257
Gold Gloves - Larkin 3 - Concepcion 5 - Smith 13
All-Star - Larkin 12, Concepcion 9 - Smith 14

I wish they would both get in! They were two of the greatest SS to ever play the game. Had Ozzie Smith not arived on the scene, Concepcion would have won SEVERAL more Gold Gloves.

Best post Ive read in a long time..Kudos! I agree with everything you said..I think the "first ballot" thing is a joke. Whether or not people think the class is weak, if someone is deserving to be in the HOF, then vote him in. Its stupid, IMO..I agree 110% about Tommy John and Jack Morris too..