[Hatz]

I'd revise your list to 13 titles in 34 years. I wouldn't count Bardstown as a mountain school.

:thatsfunn My bad. I was a little tired. :Thumbs:

[Hatz]

Nky would most of their titles not be from one school in particular? Let's say Ft. Thomas? Throw in a few for CovCath. How about Beechwood? How many does that leave for NKY?
Cky? I'm going to take a guess that most titles came from Lexington in the 70s and 80s. Throw in Boyle's five titles to go along with that. Wky? I have no clue? I thought that part of the area was from another state?

Actually I think it's like 16 for HHS, 10 for Beechwood, 5 for Cov Cath and a few for Lloyd and NCC. Still a lot more than the EKY score I mentioned.

CKY, you left out DANVILLE with 10 thank you. Mercer has 1 but that's another story. (:eyeroll I didn't add Bardstown but not sure they're WKY either. I did include Paris because they were the old CKC. Still don't get the point.

Take out Breathitt and you have 3 less. Take out, well you get the story. :please:

[Hatz]

Boyle is a 4A school, how many kids do you have?

Bell County is a county school too. Not to mention there are two independent schools within 10 minutes of Bell County high school, one on each side, Middlesboro and Pineville, both of which are in Bell County.

Both are 1A schools and Danville is a 2A school in the same county. So what's the point? :yawn:

:please:

[Hatz]

Hatz... you may have opened a can of worms LOL Here comes a long winded explanation.

I think the pride is much more sociologically driven and not statistically, I think it comes froma far ranging scope. One of my co-workers here in Atlanta is from Rockcastle County and we actually had this very discussion about "EKY mannerisms" a little while back.

The "pride" of being from the Appalachian Region IMO transcends sports and can be dated back to the Scottish descendants who settled the area. These people had many genertaions of Clannish heritage that was instilled deep into their veins. As they began settling into the area (which most resembled their native land across the ocean), thye continued many customs. This is where bluegrass music got its start as they integrated many of the same instruments and music styles that were prevalent in Scottish culture. The relative isolation as a result seemed to fuel a strong desire of "defending their own" especially from outsiders who began moving into their area. A strong sense of protecting one's properties, and upholding the family name would seemingly spill over into many other facets of their life such as their community and politics, all of which was further fueled by an inherant lack of money and the need to "fend for themselves".

The geographic barriers that the Appalachian mountains presented typically left these areas cut off from the ver changing outside world. Businesses found it foolish to locate there, coal companies led by "outsiders" took advantage of families with deep planted roots, politicians focused on more "prevalent" areas, and the emergence of labor unions only further fueled the fires that the locals were viewed nothing more as "uneducated and only slightly better than worthless". Through this viewpoint many people began feeling as if it was a them against the world situation... which in turn only further solidified their bonds with their fellow kindred spirits.

During the 50's and 60's as cities grew in Kentucky and modern ammenities became more prevalent for those areas, the emergence of sports became an outlet for the hard working people in EKY and their primary means of entertainment. Thus legends were born of figures who capitvated everyone's attention.. folks like King Kelly Coleman, the Carr Creek Basketball team, and football players. Athletic events became social events and something to take pride in. As these teams went on to take on the out of area programs, with more ammenities, more media attention, and better reputations, it called on the old feelings of being the underdog.

I have lived all over the state of Kentucky... Richmond, Louisville, Lexington.... and done business from every single corner of the state, and no other area remotely compares to the overall support of EKY. Certain areas have certain teams that have huge crowds while they are winning, but mountain schools generally turn out regardless. I still remember going to a Louisville Male game when they were bringing in Brentwood Academy (TN) and being amazed at how small the crowd was.

So long story short... the pride EKY fans have has very little to do with success, and more about tradition.

Absolutely GREAT POST and what I was kind of looking for. It's a sociological thing much more than an accomplishment thing. :Thumbs:

[Hatz]

Many Many years that Bell Co had to play Highlands in State Semi. They kept us away ALOT from the State Game!!!

WEAK argument. Any number of teams can make the same claims.

How many titles would Mayfield have if not For Danville?

How many would Hopkinsville maybe have had if not for Boyle?

How many would Danville have had if not playing in AAA throughout the 70's and mid 80's when they were really AA or A? Imagine Chris Jones running vs. AA and A football in the mid 70's? The '80 and '82 Danville squads beat the AA champ Corbin those years but lost in OT in a District thriller to Woodford and lost to Franklin County in '82 in their playoff. Still won AAA undefeated in '84.

:please:

[Real Badman]

Either way wether the EKY team win state or not its very rare for a year go by and EKY not being repesented in the state championships!

[GOREDDEVILS]

Both are 1A schools and Danville is a 2A school in the same county. So what's the point? :yawn:

:please:

I think middlesboro is 2a

[Hatz]

Because some people are acting like the number of students in a school don't make for a better chance to get talent.

Also highlands is suppose to be in 3a but they still have more boys as well as boyle then Russell and alot of other 3a schools. Highlands is playing in 5a thankgod for that.

Doesn't seem to matter to Danville. Beechwood. Breathitt. Mayfield. They are all about the size of Russell or less. They all have many State Titles in small towns. (Well you could argue Beechwood is closer to metropolitan area but Danville is a town of what 15,000 and Mayfield significantly less? How close is Russell to Ashland?)

[GOREDDEVILS]

Doesn't seem to matter to Danville. Beechwood. Breathitt. Mayfield. They are all about the size of Russell or less. They all have many State Titles in small towns. (Well you could argue Beechwood is closer to metropolitan area but Danville is a town of what 15,000 and Mayfield significantly less? How close is Russell to Ashland?)

5 miles but lets see here we have a bunch of schools around. how many does boyle county in a 25-30 mile radius
we have boyd county ashland 5a and 4a schools, we have fairview,raceland 1a schools Greenup County 4a school. We do not draw many students from ashland if thats what your trying to say most of them com from flatwoods a town of about 10-12 thousand mixed in with bellfonte and Russell both of which a blink and miss. Its not like we're the only school right in this area.

[GOREDDEVILS]

I would not be surprised if Russell doesn't lose a few players here and there to ironton,ohio d4 football power house who live in flatwoods because you don't even have to live in ohio to play there.

[GOREDDEVILS]

Oh and lets see fort mitchell where beechwood is is not much smaller than flatwoods. Plus i would gurantee their Metropolitan Statistical Area is larger than ours anyday.

[GOREDDEVILS]

their Metropolitan area is cincy, and convington alone by itsself is bigger than ashland and almost as big as huntington,wv not to mention cinci.

[PaintsvilleTigerfan]

If you don't understand football in eastern kentucky go to a game on friday night. Take the trip to pond creek, and watch the pirates run smashmouth football, or go to log mountain, or really any of the great venue's. I have seen football in the rest of the state the crowds are bigger but they aren't as crazy and passionate. Plus the allure of a team full of country boys beating the teams from the big cities (which is where the vast majority of these state championships the other areas have come from) Unites the mountain folk. Look at it this way Paintsville and johnson Central are huge rivals But if central brings in someone from out of the mountains and we dont have a home game, you will see a huge amount of tiger fans there to support the eagles. The saying around here goes "We hate each other, But we hate everybody else a whole lot more"

[GOREDDEVILS]

fort thomas has about 17,000 theirself while Ashland is around 27-29 thousand. I looked up cinci and they have more than the whole ky,wv,oh tri state area 333,000 plus our tri state area has 288,000

[Can you dig it?]

fort thomas has about 17,000 theirself while Ashland is around 27-29 thousand. I looked up cinci and they have more than the whole ky,wv,oh tri state area 333,000 plus our tri state area has 288,000

What difference does that make? Cincinnati kids don't play Kentucky football. They don't give Kentucky football a thought.

[GOREDDEVILS]

What difference does that make? Cincinnati kids don't play Kentucky football. They don't give Kentucky football a thought.

Ok sure thing while most might stay in cicni i'm sure there are some who can't start at a cinci school and come to ky to start right away. To say not one cinci kid comes to ky to play is a joke.

[GOREDDEVILS]

Oh and hatz since you brought up mayfield i checked their populatation and they have 10,000 plus so again they are not really much smaller than flatwoods if any.

[Can you dig it?]

Ok sure thing while most might stay in cicni i'm sure there are some who can't start at a cinci school and come to ky to start right away. To say not one cinci kid comes to ky to play is a joke.

:eyeroll::HitWall:About what I expected. Forget I asked.

[MayfieldCardinal]

[quote=PaintsvilleTigerfan]If you don't understand football in eastern kentucky go to a game on friday night. Take the trip to pond creek, and watch the pirates run smashmouth football, or go to log mountain, or really any of the great venue's. I have seen football in the rest of the state the crowds are bigger but they aren't as crazy and passionate. Plus the allure of a team full of country boys beating the teams from the big cities (which is where the vast majority of these state championships the other areas have come from) Unites the mountain folk.

You need to come to a Mayfield game

[64black&gold]

5 miles but lets see here we have a bunch of schools around. how many does boyle county in a 25-30 mile radius
we have boyd county ashland 5a and 4a schools, we have fairview,raceland 1a schools Greenup County 4a school. We do not draw many students from ashland if thats what your trying to say most of them com from flatwoods a town of about 10-12 thousand mixed in with bellfonte and Russell both of which a blink and miss. Its not like we're the only school right in this area.

Schools within 30 miles of Boyle county High School

Marion county
Washington county
Anderson county
Mercer county
Lincoln county
Garrard county
Danville
East Jessamine
West Jessamine
Casey county (32 miles)

[64black&gold]

Hatz... you may have opened a can of worms LOL Here comes a long winded explanation.

I think the pride is much more sociologically driven and not statistically, I think it comes froma far ranging scope. One of my co-workers here in Atlanta is from Rockcastle County and we actually had this very discussion about "EKY mannerisms" a little while back.

The "pride" of being from the Appalachian Region IMO transcends sports and can be dated back to the Scottish descendants who settled the area. These people had many genertaions of Clannish heritage that was instilled deep into their veins. As they began settling into the area (which most resembled their native land across the ocean), thye continued many customs. This is where bluegrass music got its start as they integrated many of the same instruments and music styles that were prevalent in Scottish culture. The relative isolation as a result seemed to fuel a strong desire of "defending their own" especially from outsiders who began moving into their area. A strong sense of protecting one's properties, and upholding the family name would seemingly spill over into many other facets of their life such as their community and politics, all of which was further fueled by an inherant lack of money and the need to "fend for themselves".

The geographic barriers that the Appalachian mountains presented typically left these areas cut off from the ver changing outside world. Businesses found it foolish to locate there, coal companies led by "outsiders" took advantage of families with deep planted roots, politicians focused on more "prevalent" areas, and the emergence of labor unions only further fueled the fires that the locals were viewed nothing more as "uneducated and only slightly better than worthless". Through this viewpoint many people began feeling as if it was a them against the world situation... which in turn only further solidified their bonds with their fellow kindred spirits.

During the 50's and 60's as cities grew in Kentucky and modern ammenities became more prevalent for those areas, the emergence of sports became an outlet for the hard working people in EKY and their primary means of entertainment. Thus legends were born of figures who capitvated everyone's attention.. folks like King Kelly Coleman, the Carr Creek Basketball team, and football players. Athletic events became social events and something to take pride in. As these teams went on to take on the out of area programs, with more ammenities, more media attention, and better reputations, it called on the old feelings of being the underdog.

I have lived all over the state of Kentucky... Richmond, Louisville, Lexington.... and done business from every single corner of the state, and no other area remotely compares to the overall support of EKY. Certain areas have certain teams that have huge crowds while they are winning, but mountain schools generally turn out regardless. I still remember going to a Louisville Male game when they were bringing in Brentwood Academy (TN) and being amazed at how small the crowd was.

So long story short... the pride EKY fans have has very little to do with success, and more about tradition.

I agree Hatz this is a great post. I do however think the "mountain" teams play the "us against the world" attitude a little too much. I actually expect the mountain teams to be a little bigger and play harder most of the time not the opposite. If anyone is disrespected or forgotten in the media it seems to me to be the Western Ky teams. I live in Danville and keep up with the Eastern Ky teams far more than the Western Ky teams.

[Diogenes]

You have roughly the same amount of kids as any other school in your class.Therefore that big city crap is just that . Crap. Build your program.Get a good youth program.Come compete with us as we welcome the challenge.Just stop making the same tired excuses why you cant compete.:dontthink

Is all about socio-economics and geography.

Kids in the city have advantages that are not available in EKY. You can't go to skill academies. There's no JFL programs. There's no private schools to accumulate talent. The great majority of kids at places like Highlands, St. X, and Trinity have parents who are high school and college graduates. Many seniors in EKY high schools are still going to be the first HS graduates in their families, much less college graduates. Kids go to places like St. X and Trinity because they are motivated, their families are motivated, and they WANT to be there and get an education and go to college and be successful, because their families have a tradition of success. In your EKY public schools, a huge number of kids are there just because the law says they have to be until they can drop out and get on the draw, which is also an unfortunately frequent family tradition. A kid in Jefferson County or Northern Kentucky can choose to attend numerous high schools for whatever athletic reason all within a 30 minute drive. A kid in Eastern Kentucky in most cases would have to drive 30 minutes to find ONE other high school, much less have that kind of choice. THIS is why we are proud of Mountain Teams, especially when they do well against urban teams: we are overcoming incredible disadvantages that most regions of the state just don't have to deal with, and in many cases probably can't really conceptualize.

[kywldcat01]

You have roughly the same amount of kids as any other school in your class.Therefore that big city crap is just that . Crap. Build your program.Get a good youth program.Come compete with us as we welcome the challenge.Just stop making the same tired excuses why you cant compete.:dontthink

I agree 100%. I get tired of hearing excuses for why the EKY or any other schools around the state lose to nky, lex., or louisville teams. Take a page from their book and build your program!

What difference does that make? Cincinnati kids don't play Kentucky football. They don't give Kentucky football a thought.

Exactly. The majority of the time a kid will simply go to a different Cincinnati school since that area is much more popular on the recruiting scene than nky.

Ok sure thing while most might stay in cicni i'm sure there are some who can't start at a cinci school and come to ky to start right away. To say not one cinci kid comes to ky to play is a joke.

You obviously know very little about this area if that's what you think. NKY has lost several highly touted players to a Cincinnati power. Ohio kids don't want to play football in Kentucky...they look down on us the same way that some of you think we look down on mountain football.

Is all about socio-economics and geography.

Kids in the city have advantages that are not available in EKY. You can't go to skill academies. There's no JFL programs. There's no private schools to accumulate talent. The great majority of kids at places like Highlands, St. X, and Trinity have parents who are high school and college graduates. Many seniors in EKY high schools are still going to be the first HS graduates in their families, much less college graduates. Kids go to places like St. X and Trinity because they are motivated, their families are motivated, and they WANT to be there and get an education and go to college and be successful, because their families have a tradition of success. In your EKY public schools, a huge number of kids are there just because the law says they have to be until they can drop out and get on the draw, which is also an unfortunately frequent family tradition. A kid in Jefferson County or Northern Kentucky can choose to attend numerous high schools for whatever athletic reason all within a 30 minute drive. A kid in Eastern Kentucky in most cases would have to drive 30 minutes to find ONE other high school, much less have that kind of choice. THIS is why we are proud of Mountain Teams, especially when they do well against urban teams: we are overcoming incredible disadvantages that most regions of the state just don't have to deal with, and in many cases probably can't really conceptualize.

I don't buy this. There are areas all over the state that face these same problems that these poor ole mountain/eky schools face.

In nky alone, Bellevue, Newport, Dayton, Ludlow, and Covington are all areas that are low income and see the same problems. Heck, even schools like Simon Kenton face these sorts of problems. In an area like Covington, Bellevue, Newport, Dayton, and Ludlow, probably 65% of the kids are eligible for free or reduced lunch.

Not all is grand up here in the "big city." Some of these kids face the same hardships that others in the mountains/eky face and sometimes more (gang violence), so let's not act like the mountain schools are the only ones.

All that is, is another excuse for why you can 't beat the nky/louisville/lexington schools.

[GOREDDEVILS]

kywldcat01 I know more about northern Kentucky than you think I don't care what you say there is no way some cinci kids don't come tom ky to play. I'm not buying that garbage And I know all about the large populations in that areaI have researched that area well. I don't post stuff before i go look up my info so you're not going to be pulling any fast ones over on me.

[GOREDDEVILS]

Like diogones said until you live in Eastern Kentucky you will not know the difference between a d1 producing area and a non d1 producing area. Its easy to talk all this crap when you're in a large area with alot of d1 talent to draw. Come live in eastern Kentucky a few years and you will see the difference between nky,central,ky,louisville area compared to Eastern Kentucky. Russell has produced 1 true d1 talent in the last 10 years or so that got to play a lot and that was nate mcpeek who played on the line for marshall. I would say those areas I mentioned have produced much more d1 talent then Eastern kentucky in 10 years no questions asked.

[Diogenes]

Not all is grand up here in the "big city." Some of these kids face the same hardships that others in the mountains/eky face and sometimes more (gang violence), so let's not act like the mountain schools are the only ones.

All that is, is another excuse for why you can 't beat the nky/louisville/lexington schools.

...and the flip side of that card is there are plenty of urban schools that are simply awful at football, and you'll almost always find these schools in the less affluent areas of your cities. Eastern Kentucky schools can compete with THOSE NKY/Louisville/Lexington schools, no problem. But motivated athletes in those areas tend to find their ways out of those neighborhoods and into schools like HHS and St. X and LexCath. If you're a motivated football player in Eastern Kentucky, it's a little more difficult to get away from bad situations and into good programs. We have to make do with the hands we're dealt.

[tradition]

Actually I think it's like 16 for HHS, 10 for Beechwood, 5 for Cov Cath and a few for Lloyd and NCC. Still a lot more than the EKY score I mentioned.

CKY, you left out DANVILLE with 10 thank you. Mercer has 1 but that's another story. (:eyeroll I didn't add Bardstown but not sure they're WKY either. I did include Paris because they were the old CKC. Still don't get the point.

Take out Breathitt and you have 3 less. Take out, well you get the story. :please:

Actually it's 18.:Thumbs:

[Hatz]

5 miles but lets see here we have a bunch of schools around. how many does boyle county in a 25-30 mile radius
we have boyd county ashland 5a and 4a schools, we have fairview,raceland 1a schools Greenup County 4a school. We do not draw many students from ashland if thats what your trying to say most of them com from flatwoods a town of about 10-12 thousand mixed in with bellfonte and Russell both of which a blink and miss. Its not like we're the only school right in this area.

Do you really want to go in a 25-30 mile radius?

Mercer County, Lincoln County, Garrard County, Casey County, Washington County. All of these are pretty close to that area you chose from Danville and Boyle County High Schools.

That's a ridiculous circumfrance to draw.

My implication was not Rusell "drawing" students from anywhere. My implication was your argument about "other schools in the area" is the same for every single school in the state. Again, it's a very, very weak argument. :ChairHit:

[Hatz]

If you don't understand football in eastern kentucky go to a game on friday night. Take the trip to pond creek, and watch the pirates run smashmouth football, or go to log mountain, or really any of the great venue's. I have seen football in the rest of the state the crowds are bigger but they aren't as crazy and passionate. Plus the allure of a team full of country boys beating the teams from the big cities (which is where the vast majority of these state championships the other areas have come from) Unites the mountain folk. Look at it this way Paintsville and johnson Central are huge rivals But if central brings in someone from out of the mountains and we dont have a home game, you will see a huge amount of tiger fans there to support the eagles. The saying around here goes "We hate each other, But we hate everybody else a whole lot more"

Good Post. :Thumbs:

I think you are making the argument that makes sense. Regionalism and pride but it doesn't necessarily look to make a rationale argument, just a passionate one for one's program.

[Hatz]

Actually it's 18.:Thumbs:

Thanks. :Thumbs: I was going off the top of my head on that one.