[Wildcats11]

I say it's in the coaching but I may be wrong. I've watched them play and they seem to have some talent so I don't see that being the problem.

[Kiffin]

Something has got to be done with the Paintsville Football Team. I don't know where the problem is, but it is up to the Administration to find out what it is and then fix this problem. If something is not done quickly, they will start to lose kids that love football. That will trickle down and affect the entire sports program and the school as a whole. Maybe it is lack of talent, or the coaching staff or some other factor. I don't know what it is, but something must be done.:please:

I agree that they need to figure out what the problem is very fast. I honestly think that Kinner's job security should be up in the air right now. If we're going past past standards that were set by Coy Sammons and the administration of PHS this effort isn't cutting it. Allen actually had a better record in his two seasons.

[Hoot Gibson]

If memory serves me correct, I think there were four players on that team that were from outside the city school district. Wes Ward came to Paintsville his sophomore year I think, with Matt Blevins, H. Doderer and Subby enrolling their freshman year.

Was 2005 Ryan Brown's senior season? If so, you can add him to the list. He lived in West Van Lear.

[Matman]

Also i think truly Paintsville is startin to Deemphasize athletics. PHS is the best school in the mountains academically The CATS and ACT result for this year where unreal. i think Paintsville independent was 2 or 3 percentile points away from being the #1 district in the state this year. So i guess what im saying is that the tough curriculum is killing the athletics especially football. just my .02

I think its great that Paintsville is doing so well academically. I hate hearing people talk about how bad our school systems are in Eky. I know Paintsville has some of the best teachers in the state and i'm glad its paying off. But when i first heard this i was joking that its because all the football players left. But i wonder if that has influenced it. Also what is the average class size at Paintsville?

[mandan]

I agree that they need to figure out what the problem is very fast. I honestly think that Kinner's job security should be up in the air right now. If we're going past past standards that were set by Coy Sammons and the administration of PHS this effort isn't cutting it. Allen actually had a better record in his two seasons.

Yeah, and look what that got Allen. You (Paintsville) can't keep changing coaches every 2 years and expect to build a successful program. You may luck into a season where you have tremendous talent and it won't matter who coaches them (BMR?). But, you better find someone and support them, not drive them out.

[IRISH4]

Was 2005 Ryan Brown's senior season? If so, you can add him to the list. He lived in West Van Lear.

No, Ryan Brown's senior season was in 2002. I grew up and played sports with Ryan ever since we were in the first grade together. Ryan may have lived in West Van Lear, but he always attended Paintsville schools and by his junior season he was actually living out towards Riceville at their farm.

[Mr.Kimball]

If memory serves me correct, I think there were four players on that team that were from outside the city school district. Wes Ward came to Paintsville his sophomore year I think, with Matt Blevins, H. Doderer and Subby enrolling their freshman year.

I think that Wes transferred right in the middle of the season his freshman year. He did play some freshman games at JCHS, but didn't play the entire season. I cant remember the whole roster, but Adam Cummins was another county boy that comes to mind. Could have been more, IDK, maybe not. Cody Reynolds was another one, even though I dont think he played a great deal. Sheesh 8 years ago seems like half a lifetime, when trying to remember something. But even with those, that was the basis for the backfield (minus Pugh) for 4 years and pretty much the linebacking corps and a good part of the lines. Those players were all major impact players offensively and defensively for the program at that time. I dont know who Paintsville would have had homegrown to replace those guys if they had not have transferred and what the success of the program would have been without them. Perhaps they would have fared just as well, IDK. That's all just hypothetical speculation anyways. Obviously, they took someone else's spot and played in front of them. But regardless, that's 5 players out of an 11 man starting lineup. That's half the team when you look at it in those terms.

[Diogenes]

It's not just Paintsville. I think it's Class A football in general.

Two things are working against high school football in general. One is dilution of the talent. Once, if you wanted to do something for your school in the fall and you were a boy, your choice was football. Now, you could play soccer, or fall baseball, or be in the band or on the academic team, or a million other things. And these things are becoming increasingly specialized - kids who used to play three sports well now often just save themselves for one and spend the offseasons conditioning for and playing AAU-type versions of their sport. Two, too many kids just don't do ANYTHING anymore. Kids who once would've had nothing to do BUT play football now can sit at home, drive their expensive cars, get into booze and pills, play video games, get into all kinds of non-productive trouble. I think across the state, numbers on football teams are sneaking down (except of course at places like St. X and Trinity and Highlands where people go to that school for the express purpose OF playing football), and the first place you see the effects of that is Class A. There was a time the old Class A teams like Mayfield and Raceland and Danville and Paintsville and Pikeville could hold their own with most teams across the state. Those days are pretty much gone for good, I think. And I suspect there'll be a time in the not too distant future when some of the smallest teams will have to fold because their numbers of available players will simply get too small. Honestly, I think a little further down the road, school-based athletics in general may fold in favor of a club-based AAU-type sporting setup. Just evolution.

[Hoot Gibson]

No, Ryan Brown's senior season was in 2002. I grew up and played sports with Ryan ever since we were in the first grade together. Ryan may have lived in West Van Lear, but he always attended Paintsville schools and by his junior season he was actually living out towards Riceville at their farm.

There have always been quite a few Paintsville players who lived in the county school district, like Ryan, who played for Paintsville - including some who lived within the Paintsville city limits bot not the city school district. I do not believe that there are as many as there once was.

[Now What]

Yeah, and look what that got Allen. You (Paintsville) can't keep changing coaches every 2 years and expect to build a successful program. You may luck into a season where you have tremendous talent and it won't matter who coaches them (BMR?). But, you better find someone and support them, not drive them out.

This is true...look at JC's track record over the last 3 decades with the musical coaching in every sport but baseball...P-ville has enjoyed much stability in the coaching realms of all sports untill the last few years...Maybe if Kinner is guilty of anything its not making an easier scheldule for a legit Eastern KY 1a school with a mini van as a QB...If he would have went 8-2 or 7-3 with the only L's in confrence play....Would this thread even be brought up? One more comment...WOW..I guess BMR had tremendous talent most seasons in basketball too..lucky for him or maybe he had been coaching hs players for 30 years and has exp. in getting the most out of every player on the court or field..but it might have been luck...:yawn:

[MR.PERFECT]

Nothing..........Everbody has a down year, unless your St.X, Trinity or Highlands.

[MonsterMan]

This question is easy. Paintsville has had a great traditon but has relied on out of district kids. Since JC has improved all thier sports programs and facilites and with all the acadmeic awards they have recieved, they can offer the copmplete package. This is due in part to thier size and money. Matney and Central have just about closed the door on the county kids. Funding and the size of the economic resources avaialbe to Paintsville will not help this issue. I have alot of Paintsville frineds and root for them, but factrs are facts.

[Redneck]

We won the region my junior year (2001). There were only 2 players that actually played who didn't grow up at Paintsville, WR Dustin Hall and FB Kyle Murphy. The rest of us were born and bred Paintsville Tigers. I get sick of hearin about how the only reason Paintsville was any good was because of the county kids transferrin to Paintsville to play. What about 2001, where were all the county kids then?

As for Wes Ward, Matt Blevins, and Hans Doderer, they all came to Paintsville their freshmen year which was my senior year (2002-03). Wes and Hans wanted to see action early in their career, and they did, they both started as freshmen. Blevins (my 1st cousin) came because he wanted to play where his older brother played (Nick Baldridge). Subby was a year behind them, I think he came his freshman year too.

[Mr.Kimball]

We won the region my junior year (2001). There were only 2 players that actually played who didn't grow up at Paintsville, WR Dustin Hall and FB Kyle Murphy. The rest of us were born and bred Paintsville Tigers. I get sick of hearin about how the only reason Paintsville was any good was because of the county kids transferrin to Paintsville to play. What about 2001, where were all the county kids then?

As for Wes Ward, Matt Blevins, and Hans Doderer, they all came to Paintsville their freshmen year which was my senior year (2002-03). Wes and Hans wanted to see action early in their career, and they did, they both started as freshmen. Blevins (my 1st cousin) came because he wanted to play where his older brother played (Nick Baldridge). Subby was a year behind them, I think he came his freshman year too.

Come on now relax. Yours was a very good team and I know it was basicly a home grown team. The subject was not that team however, it was the era from say '03 to maybe '07, and the program was heavily influenced by non Paintsville guys. Even right now your best running back is a former county player. Certainly am not criticizing anybody or the program, it's just for that particular time period, that was the player mix.

[PaintsvilleTigerfan]

I think its great that Paintsville is doing so well academically. I hate hearing people talk about how bad our school systems are in Eky. I know Paintsville has some of the best teachers in the state and i'm glad its paying off. But when i first heard this i was joking that its because all the football players left. But i wonder if that has influenced it. Also what is the average class size at Paintsville?

The average classroom will have about 14 kids in it. and a graduating class will have 48-50 kids. The funny part is on monday the Head football coach from Harlan will be at paintsville monday along with the rest of their social studies department to learn better ways to teach. Their principle came friday and from what I saw they where in Shock from how successful paintsville is. I think it is somewhere around 95% of our Grads that go on to college. So in the end sports don't matter. and we can look at it this way #3 in the state on the ACT lol.

[Now What]

Come on now relax. Yours was a very good team and I know it was basicly a home grown team. The subject was not that team however, it was the era from say '03 to maybe '07, and the program was heavily influenced by non Paintsville guys. Even right now your best running back is a former county player. Certainly am not criticizing anybody or the program, it's just for that particular time period, that was the player mix.

I think your best running back this year is not home grown....JC since the MATNEY era have had some players not HOME grown....What about last year?

[Mr.Kimball]

I think your best running back this year is not home grown....JC since the MATNEY era have had some players not HOME grown....What about last year?

That is true. Never once said any of them were. That wasn't the subject of the thread though.

About last year, one that comes to mind immediately is one who had lived in the county his whole life, had attended JC once prior to retransferring, and whose momma was a JC grad. I assume that's the one your referring to. Come to think of it, I believe his daddy had lived in the county his whole life too. But, that's all neither here nor there. I've tried to talk complimentary. There isn't anything wrong with Paintsville as a school, period. It's a very good school with great tradition athletically and academically, as is the Johnson Co. school system. Remember that the county school system is also ranked near the top in the state for a county school system. I was just mearly pointing out of what could be a part of the recent slippage, and just mentioned that there were several impact players during a certain time period that were from the county schools. As I said, perhaps they made no difference in the program's success anyways, if they had never been there. One will never know. I'm not going to even get into a JC/Paintsville war of words here. I've said all I'm even going to say on that. Tigerfan just went a little over the edge, and I just wanted to clear that little matter up. Hope for continued success to you all in everything you do.

[OffTheHook]

Here might be a little food for thought. Seeing that Paintsville is such a small school and it is hard for the football coach to keep kids involved during the off season. Why not try this....A Wrestling Program. During basketball season I look at the stands and see sooo many good athletes (football players)..ie...N. Doderer, E. Daniel, M. Castle, M. Nordin, B. Murray, C. Sexton and to many more to name, that would make great wrestlers, just waiting for next season.

If I'm not mistaken a lot of JC, SC, LC, PCC, Ashland and LCC football players also wrestle. And these are all good football schools as well.
It's a sport that gets you in shape and keeps you in shape. As well as teaches discipline and respect.

Paintsville used to have a wrestling program many years ago. If I'm not mistaken.
Just a thought, I honestly think it would compliment our football program in the long run. And I really think that you would have a great turnout for it. Just a thought.

[Hoot Gibson]

I attended both the Paintsville Independent school district and the JC school district, as did all three of my children. You can get an excellent education in either school system and neither school system has a monopoly on good teachers. JC may have the top two academic team coaches in the state and they have a greater raw number of outstanding students because of their large enrollment. Those are the reasons that JC has won more state middle school academic championships than any other school in the state and it is why JCHS is able to compete with schools like Dupont Manual and Paul L. Dunbar on the high school level.

Paintsville's high average scores on standardized tests is the result of the town's demographics. Parents of PHS students are very likely to be college graduates and many of them are doctors, lawyers, etc. Parents' attitude toward education is by far the biggest factor in the academic achievements of their children.

Paintsville has always excelled in academics, so this is a great big non-factor in the decline of its football program. Paintsville's small enrollment is a factor but Fairview's enrollment is similar to Paintsville's and Fairview's football program has eclipsed Paintsville's in recent years.

[Matman]

The average classroom will have about 14 kids in it. and a graduating class will have 48-50 kids. The funny part is on monday the Head football coach from Harlan will be at paintsville monday along with the rest of their social studies department to learn better ways to teach. Their principle came friday and from what I saw they where in Shock from how successful paintsville is. I think it is somewhere around 95% of our Grads that go on to college. So in the end sports don't matter. and we can look at it this way #3 in the state on the ACT lol.

Thats small classrooms. I would think the more attention they can recieve would have more to do with academics than sports. What worries me about this is the abandonment of extra curricular activities. I hope this is not the direction they are going. Classroom work only gets you so far in life. Theres lessons to be learned outside the classroom. However i know alot of their teachers are very active in the community so i'm sure this is not the case. However its a bad idea to concentrate on the classroom aspect of education and not explore the rest.

[rebel84]

why don't Paintsville play Johnson Central anymore? that is my question

[Old School]

Here might be a little food for thought. Seeing that Paintsville is such a small school and it is hard for the football coach to keep kids involved during the off season. Why not try this....A Wrestling Program. During basketball season I look at the stands and see sooo many good athletes (football players)..ie...N. Doderer, E. Daniel, M. Castle, M. Nordin, B. Murray, C. Sexton and to many more to name, that would make great wrestlers, just waiting for next season.

If I'm not mistaken a lot of JC, SC, LC, PCC, Ashland and LCC football players also wrestle. And these are all good football schools as well.
It's a sport that gets you in shape and keeps you in shape. As well as teaches discipline and respect.

Paintsville used to have a wrestling program many years ago. If I'm not mistaken.
Just a thought, I honestly think it would compliment our football program in the long run. And I really think that you would have a great turnout for it. Just a thought.

I remember back in the mid 70's Paintsville did have a wrestling program, I'm not sure how long it lasted, but I agree it would help the football program.

[Mr.Kimball]

Thats small classrooms. I would think the more attention they can recieve would have more to do with academics than sports. What worries me about this is the abandonment of extra curricular activities. I hope this is not the direction they are going. Classroom work only gets you so far in life. Theres lessons to be learned outside the classroom. However i know alot of their teachers are very active in the community so i'm sure this is not the case. However its a bad idea to concentrate on the classroom aspect of education and not explore the rest.

Personally, I think Tigerfan just fed you a bunch of hooey, Matman. Paintsville has always been strong academically and has always stressed it extremely hard. It's no different now than it has ever been. I can just about guarantee you that Tigerfan has not been around long enough in this world to have a full grasp of what he is talking about. Johnson Central has grown leaps and bounds with their academic success's the last few years, and what has happened to their sports programs? They were named by the Lexington Herald just a few months ago as having the best overall high school sports program in the entire state of Kentucky, is all. That should be evidence enough. Yes Paintsville is highly ranked academically in the state of Kentucky, but so is Johnson Central. Talent comes and goes in cycles. Kyrifle has stated many times that there is just not a whole lot of talent right now on the gridiron. Knowing rifle, as I do, I trust his observations immensly, and I take it as absolute fact, if he says it. This is something that happens in all schools both large and small, but at a small school the effects on the program get highly magnified. Is it ironic that since Matney's arrival and transfers to the city system from the county system have dwindled that the decline has come about? Is it just coincidence, or as I said, is it just the cyclic nature of the beast? That's certainly something to ponder on.

[Now What]

why don't Paintsville play Johnson Central anymore? that is my question

P-ville's program opted out of the Apple Bowl after seeing a certain You-Tube video. I heard it scared the B-Jeezus out of them....There was also an insurance liability problem....I dont think it covered being pounded in the ground or something like that....Neither team benifited from it....If a 1a win the 5a stinks....If the 5a wins there suppose too...Not a win win situation...plus alot of parents act a fool to...Both sides...

[Kiffin]

Paintsville is struggling because they are trying to be something they aren't capable of. They are trying to be Florida and they don't have the players nor the coaches to understand the offense. This was very evident to me the other night after i really watched the Tigers. You have a slow freshmen QB who is trying to copy Tim Tebow probably the best college player ever. Also you don't have any player on the squad who can run under a 4.7 and you're trying to run an offense that had guys across the board that are 4.3 or 4.4 guys. I think the Tiger staff needs to re-think what they are doing and put the fashionable stuff aside.

[Mr.Kimball]

I remember back in the mid 70's Paintsville did have a wrestling program, I'm not sure how long it lasted, but I agree it would help the football program.

It may be different now, but when Bill Mike was coach that would have been something that he would have made sure of that would never happen under any circumstance.


But I do agree, that it would pay dividends to the football program over the long haul.

[Mr.Kimball]

Paintsville is struggling because they are trying to be something they aren't capable of. They are trying to be Florida and they don't have the players nor the coaches to understand the offense. This was very evident to me the other night after i really watched the Tigers. You have a slow freshmen QB who is trying to copy Tim Tebow probably the best college player ever. Also you don't have any player on the squad who can run under a 4.7 and you're trying to run an offense that had guys across the board that are 4.3 or 4.4 guys. I think the Tiger staff needs to re-think what they are doing and put the fashionable stuff aside.

To run a spread, you have to be stocked to ther gills with athletes all over the place. There are very few high school teams anywhere that are able to do that. It's not enough to have a QB that can throw the ball (if you are in fact fortunate to have one), you have to have multiple receivers that can catch it, and then run with it too. In high school football, and especially at a 1A school, just keep it simple.

[Now What]

Talent comes and goes in cycles. .

I think there is some truth to this....[B]I heard BMR on a radio show say that he would try to make a run at Reg. title every 3-4 years. Developing 8-9th graders to make a run when they were juinors or seniors...Anything in between is just icing on the cake....[/B]
Its just hard for a small school to have a freshman team or a Jv team...Some kids develop a little slower so lack of playing time deff. does not help this...some get discouraged and quit...so with dwindling numbers comes lack of talent...no one to compete for spots...no one pushing or trying to take starting positions...The quick solution would be an easier non district sched. With a couple of winning seasons students will get excited and want to be a Tiger again...

[Mr.Kimball]

I think there is some truth to this....[B][B]I heard BMR on a radio show say that he would try to make a run at Reg. title every 3-4 years. Developing 8-9th graders to make a run when they were juinors or seniors...Anything in between is just icing on the cake....[/B][/B]
Its just hard for a small school to have a freshman team or a Jv team...Some kids develop a little slower so lack of playing time deff. does not help this...some get discouraged and quit...so with dwindling numbers comes lack of talent...no one to compete for spots...no one pushing or trying to take starting positions...The quick solution would be an easier non district sched. With a couple of winning seasons students will get excited and want to be a Tiger again...

I think that it is very much evident that that's what he has tried to do. I do think that with the last regional title bunch, he went a little overboard with that though. He went for 3 to 4 of years and basicly only played about 6 kids. Can you blame any kid for getting discouraged and not wanting to bust his butt every day knowing that they would never get to play? Especially, when you have kids that have transferred in playing over top of you, and you have been a Tiger since the day you were born. Take for example two years ago Slone, Pack, and Murray. That's half of the guys that even got to play. It's hurting the program now, IMO.

Also if you remember, BM watered the schedule down immensly when that bunch was 8th graders and freshmen. He went to the absolute extreme on that too, I thought.

[Codeman]

You can never blame it on the kids>