Report: Memphis May Have to Vacate '08 Final Four Run

**PC_You_Know** · 08-22-2009, 01:16 AM

Wildcatk23 Wrote:lol

:Thumbs:

**thetribe** · 08-22-2009, 03:18 PM

Watching the coverage on this just made me think that if UK obtains a Final Four appearance or national title to later have it vacated because of Coach Cal's actions somehow, I do not see him making it to another day.

Navajo4life · 08-22-2009, 04:07 PM

I think it's funny how TheVille has all kind of comments when something happens to Memphis, not Calipari, not Kentucky, but Memphis..... However, when Ricky P is caught with his pants down, he is nowhere to be found.... Why is that??

**Stardust** · 08-22-2009, 04:14 PM

Navajo4life Wrote:I think it's funny how TheVille has all kind of comments when something happens to Memphis, not Calipari, not Kentucky, but Memphis..... However, when Ricky P is caught with his pants down, he is nowhere to be found.... Why is that??

He's posted on this thread. He's not completely shied away...

**Stardust** · 08-22-2009, 04:16 PM

thetribe Wrote:Watching the coverage on this just made me think that if UK obtains a Final Four appearance or national title to later have it vacated because of Coach Cal's actions somehow, I do not see him making it to another day.

My biggest fear when we made the hire. Everyone can say what they want about whether coach Cal has ever been proven guilty of any improprieties. But he sure does surround himself with questionable folks.

**thetribe** · 08-22-2009, 10:03 PM

It's more of a fear of mine now than it has happened not once, but twice. It would be the worst thing to happen to UK, outside of the BCG period of course, and it just wouldn't be something that would be in Cal's best interest to let happen. He may have not been directly involved in anything but eyes will be on him at UK and he better be walking the line. I can't help but to think that it would be a much bigger deal if it happened here than at any other university thusfar.

**BlackcatAlum** · 08-24-2009, 09:00 PM

D-ick Vitale pretty much sums up my case and why no UK fan should worry about the NCAA & Calipari:

D-ick Vitale Wrote:[INDENT]Was it Calipari’s fault that Marcus Camby took money from an agent? It has been stated that Calipari was not involved in this Rose issue.
If you are anti-Calipari, you will have your ammunition and you will whack away at him. Whenever you are a high-profile success like Calipari, you are going to take some shots.

When it is all said and done, his days at Kentucky will solve a lot of problems. He will win, win, win in the Bluegrass State.
I recently spoke to Calipari and he is so motivated and fired up to bring success to Lexington. He wants to do it the right way.
Think about this. He has had around 100 players during his days as a Division I head coach. Has any of his players come out and accused him of giving them cash? Have they been given clothes, a car, anything? Has anyone ever said Calipari himself was cheating?

There has never been any complaints in those areas.[/INDENT]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/dickvital...id=4419396

**Stardust** · 08-24-2009, 09:20 PM

Great, now we have to start liking what dUKie V has to say.....:biggrin:

**BlackcatAlum** · 08-24-2009, 09:23 PM

Stardust Wrote:Great, now we have to start liking what dUKie V has to say.....:biggrin:

Hey, he's finally giving UK some credit other than how wonderful our fan base is. He realizes that UK is going to be great from here on out (hopefully anyhow) and everyone knows how Vitale likes to bandwagon teams during the season. But I do agree with him here and what he said was what I was trying to get to on these Rose/Memphis/NCAA threads.

**Stardust** · 08-24-2009, 09:27 PM

^ I do agree with tribe though, UK will have a closer eye on them than ever before. At a place like UK, there is no need to cheat, but the types of players that Cal goes after have proven to be charecter issues. Guys, whether people want to keep one eye closed and the other looking in a different direction, Cal has recruited players with questionable charecter. The kind of charecter that has left tremendous black eyes on the two respective programs that he has been at. Whether all wants to believe he is innocent, the players that he recruits are not!

**BlackcatAlum** · 08-24-2009, 09:31 PM

Stardust Wrote:^ I do agree with tribe though, UK will have a closer eye on them than ever before. At a place like UK, there is no need to cheat, but the types of players that Cal goes after have proven to be charecter issues. Guys, whether people want to keep one eye closed and the other looking in a different direction, Cal has recruited players with questionable charecter. The kind of charecter that has left tremendous black eyes on the two respective programs that he has been at. Whether all wants to believe he is innocent, the players that he recruits are not!

Calipari does what a coach does and goes after the best players in the country. If grades are an issue than those players wouldn't have even made it through the NCAA Clearing House. But if they cheat like Rose did, then that's not the coaches fault.

Like I've said before, you take a risk with each player you sign in any sport. Your not familiar with their background as well as they and their family are. Just about anything can come back and bite these young men & women in the behind and cost them or their respected schools.

**Stardust** · 08-24-2009, 09:51 PM

^ and two NCAA final 4's....

So, do you risk everything by going after those guys? BCA, I disagree with you, not everyone signs those guys. Mayo was not being seriously recruited by the dUKe's, UNC's, Texas University's. Rose was not a serious consideration to play for a Bobby Knight, Roy Williams or Coach K. They didn't want the baggage. Cal has an obvious history with going after this type of player. You can say it's not his fault, but if he chose guys with obvious better charecter, maybe the chances of having something go awry are lessoned. But, if you don't go for those types of guys, you don't get to have two final 4's taken out of your legacy. Instead, you become Tubby Smith, and get chased out of your school because you didn't go for the Blue-Chip charecter issues.....

**BlackcatAlum** · 08-24-2009, 10:02 PM

Stardust Wrote:^ and two NCAA final 4's....

So, do you risk everything by going after those guys? BCA, I disagree with you, not everyone signs those guys. Mayo was not being seriously recruited by the dUKe's, UNC's, Texas University's. Rose was not a serious consideration to play for a Bobby Knight, Roy Williams or Coach K. They didn't want the baggage. Cal has an obvious history with going after this type of player. You can say it's not his fault, but if he chose guys with obvious better charecter, maybe the chances of having something go awry are lessoned. But, if you don't go for those types of guys, you don't get to have two final 4's taken out of your legacy. Instead, you become Tubby Smith, and get chased out of your school because you didn't go for the Blue-Chip charecter issues.....

Each player you mentioned where 1-and-done players. Have you ever seen UNC, Duke, UK, Kansas, etc. sign those types of players often? Only time those guys are every offered by those programs is if their going to make that much of a difference so that they can compete for a championship.

Like Vitale said, out of the hundred or so players Calipari has coached have you ever heard of them accuse him of anything or bring him into anything? BTW, this makes the 2nd player out of those hundred or so that he's coach to have problems with the NCAA. I'm sure Calipari isn't the only coach out there that's coached players that have run-ins with the NCAA.

If you want to be the best, you have to take risks. Calipari is that type of guy and he loves winning.

**Stardust** · 08-24-2009, 10:05 PM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23997...basketball

Interesting read...

The real problem with Calipari is that he represents how college basketball is changing for the worse. Simply put, college basketball has lost its innocence....

The other problem, and this is where Calipari comes in, is that coaches are taking advantage of the situation. Knowing that academics don't matter (the players aren't there to get their degrees), one-and-done athletes are willing to pull strings that even college football programs prospects don't (at least USC football players take their own tests).

Calipari and other coaches may not have direct knowledge of these incidents, but they need to understand and address these issues while they are recruiting these kids. They may not be giving the thumbs up, but they aren't giving the thumbs down either.

The argument for recruiting a lot of one-and-done players (which is what Calipari does almost exclusively now) is that without recruiting them you are at a competitive disadvantage. This is a false notion.

North Carolina won the national title this year without a single one-and-done player. Last year, Kansas didn't have a one-and-done player either. Florida didn't have a one-and-done player on either of their title teams. You have to go all the way back to North Carolina in 2005 (Marvin Williams) to find the ONLY one-and-done player (since the rule was instituted) to be a part of a national championship team.

**BlackcatAlum** · 08-24-2009, 10:19 PM

Stardust Wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23997...basketball

Interesting read...

The real problem with Calipari is that he represents how college basketball is changing for the worse. Simply put, college basketball has lost its innocence....

The other problem, and this is where Calipari comes in, is that coaches are taking advantage of the situation. Knowing that academics don't matter (the players aren't there to get their degrees), one-and-done athletes are willing to pull strings that even college football programs prospects don't (at least USC football players take their own tests).

Calipari and other coaches may not have direct knowledge of these incidents, but they need to understand and address these issues while they are recruiting these kids. They may not be giving the thumbs up, but they aren't giving the thumbs down either.

The argument for recruiting a lot of one-and-done players (which is what Calipari does almost exclusively now) is that without recruiting them you are at a competitive disadvantage. This is a false notion.

North Carolina won the national title this year without a single one-and-done player. Last year, Kansas didn't have a one-and-done player either. Florida didn't have a one-and-done player on either of their title teams. You have to go all the way back to North Carolina in 2005 (Marvin Williams) to find the ONLY one-and-done player (since the rule was instituted) to be a part of a national championship team.

UNC, Syracuse and I'm sure there are more teams who have won national championships with one-and-done players. I don't see a problem with it at all. Memphis only had 1, one-and-done player on their team during their 2008 runner-up team (Derrick Rose). Kentucky would have two at the most this season if they won the national championship. I also don't see how this is hurting college basketball. If you don't want one-and-done players then the NCAA should eliminate their rule forcing high school basketball players to play a season of college basketball before playing in the NBA. If they have the talent on the floor and don't have the brains in the classroom then what's the point in having a kid even go to college if it may hold him back some from their future.

Take it back to the old days where the LeBron James, Kobe Bryant's and Kevin Garnett's can skip college and head straight to the NBA if it's going to cost a college or player to break the NCAA rules just to be eligible to play the game they love and enjoy the only thing they know how to do.

mrsportsfan · 08-25-2009, 12:36 PM

USC football players and basketball players may take their own tests, but when are their banners going to come down, or will they because they are USC? I pulled my post from the other thread because people were mainly discussing this one because it was the first one down the line in the college sports discussion, and they were basically the same topic.
Another thing is that the NCAA is playing favorites. Reggie Bush in 2006 took gifts for him and his family in excess of I believe over 20,000. The case is still open and this is the 4th year that the USC Trojans are playing football with the case still open and no sanctions and Rose Bowl wins behind them including the one won with Reggie Bush. They are also ranked in the top 5 in the pre-season poll. Now take O.J. Mayo, same school, coach is paying off player, Mayo has been in NBA same amount of time that Rose has, and they definitely knew about it. (coachwas the one paying Mayo). Yet they have reached no decision on them and have inflicted no sanctions or penalties on either program. Now I totally believe that Marcus Camby's problems stemmed from his own actions, and whoever this WW Wes is they keep talking about wasn't even in the picture at this time. I will not and cannot blame Coach Cal for his losing the final four banner for the actions of this greedy young man. I honestly believe he had no knowledge of it. I think that the NCAA and the NBA should work together to hold accountable these students who take these gifts and get rid of the one and done, because alot of them can play ball, but are not great in the academic dept. Memphis said they did their due diligence on Rose before they let him play and they also had their clearance from the NCAA that his test was validated. The NCAA hired an expert handwriting expert who says that she cannot be sure that it is or is not his hand writing on the test. I think that if they strip Memphis they had better back up and close some cases with the same results or they are playing favorites and everybody is watching. I have the number to the NCAA, and I have the names of everybody on the infractions committee, if you want to contact them, just pm me and i'll give them to you, they are made of of some independent people, professors at some colleges, athletic people. There is not alot of them, but you can contact them and ask them about these other cases.

**Stardust** · 08-25-2009, 12:40 PM

BlackcatAlum Wrote:UNC, Syracuse and I'm sure there are more teams who have won national championships with one-and-done players. I don't see a problem with it at all. Memphis only had 1, one-and-done player on their team during their 2008 runner-up team (Derrick Rose). Kentucky would have two at the most this season if they won the national championship. I also don't see how this is hurting college basketball. If you don't want one-and-done players then the NCAA should eliminate their rule forcing high school basketball players to play a season of college basketball before playing in the NBA. If they have the talent on the floor and don't have the brains in the classroom then what's the point in having a kid even go to college if it may hold him back some from their future.

Take it back to the old days where the LeBron James, Kobe Bryant's and Kevin Garnett's can skip college and head straight to the NBA if it's going to cost a college or player to break the NCAA rules just to be eligible to play the game they love and enjoy the only thing they know how to do.

It's an NBA rule, not an NCAA rule that a player has to play one season in college. It's the NBA rule that ultimately is hurting college sports. At least in football, the NFL requires two years. But what about all the sports that do not require any collegiate requirements: MLB, NHL. Then you have sports like Golf and Tennis that have zero educational requirements. Females in these two sports often only have a GED, but that is only for their own purposes, not required by their sport.

mrsportsfan · 08-25-2009, 01:45 PM

I believe they are going to do away with it because of the problems it's causing.

mrsportsfan · 08-25-2009, 03:53 PM

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2009/08...-showdown/ You can't tell me the NCAA is playing fair ball.

mrsportsfan · (This post was last modified: 08-25-2009, 04:04 PM by mrsportsfan.)

http://www.fanblogs.com/usc/007003.php
Dang, Calapari and Pitino look like Poster boys.
:fedup:

**Stardust** · 08-26-2009, 02:30 PM

How is this the NCAA Clearing House's fault? The NCAA Clearing House does not perform the tests. They have to take for granted the entity that hosted the test. they only take the test results, their job is not to validate who took the test.

Does anybody not think that everyone in Memphis knew that Rose, who was academcially challenged in high School, didn't know that he was purposefully leaving his hometown to go to Detroit to take the test?.....

mrsportsfan · 08-26-2009, 03:29 PM

Dusty, I'll give you the one on Memphis, but not the one on Mass. But would someone please address my findings on USC, they are getting away with violation after violaton, and they are just going along hoping people will forget about it. I was wrong about the amount of gifts Reggie Bush took for him and his family, it was over 200,000. Where is the justice for the infractions that I posted earlier. Is USC above reproach?

**Stardust** · 08-26-2009, 03:34 PM

^ No, USC is no less guilty than any of the other schools that are doing similar things. I do beleive before it is all over, the Bush and Mayo issues will cost USC. Those cases are not closed with the NCAA.

mrsportsfan · 08-26-2009, 03:36 PM

Wymt says that the police released audio and video recordings between Pitino and Karen Cyphers, somehow I feel that whatever is on there is going to be embarrasing to him and the school so he is going to step down.

mrsportsfan · 08-26-2009, 03:38 PM

These things happened with Bush in 2006, how long is it going to take while they keep racking up wins and Rose Bowl and Championship wins?

beasy_bo · 08-26-2009, 09:48 PM

i really can't believe people are still saying this is cal's fault. if so then why hasn't he got into trouble. i mean if a kid shows you his papers and it has been sign off by the NCAA no matter where in the U.S. you did take your test at its still the NCAA. i mean i wouldn't try to second this kid either. if he's eligible then he can play on my team. sorry if someone doesn't know how to monitor test probably. thing is does NCAA get into trouble NO! they are like the federal government they can dish punishment but can't recieve it? everything has went quite with it. i'll just say cal went from UMASS to UK he must being something right?

**Stardust** · 08-27-2009, 08:15 AM

beasy_bo Wrote:i really can't believe people are still saying this is cal's fault. if so then why hasn't he got into trouble. i mean if a kid shows you his papers and it has been sign off by the NCAA no matter where in the U.S. you did take your test at its still the NCAA. i mean i wouldn't try to second this kid either. if he's eligible then he can play on my team. sorry if someone doesn't know how to monitor test probably. thing is does NCAA get into trouble NO! they are like the federal government they can dish punishment but can't recieve it? everything has went quite with it. i'll just say cal went from UMASS to UK he must being something right?

I'm missing the point BB, what did the NCAA do? They didn't administer the test? They don't even have someone present during the test.

**More Cowbell** · 08-29-2009, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by D-ick Vitale
Was it Calipari’s fault that Marcus Camby took money from an agent? It has been stated that Calipari was not involved in this Rose issue.
If you are anti-Calipari, you will have your ammunition and you will whack away at him. Whenever you are a high-profile success like Calipari, you are going to take some shots.

When it is all said and done, his days at Kentucky will solve a lot of problems. He will win, win, win in the Bluegrass State.
I recently spoke to Calipari and he is so motivated and fired up to bring success to Lexington. He wants to do it the right way.
Think about this. He has had around 100 players during his days as a Division I head coach. Has any of his players come out and accused him of giving them cash? Have they been given clothes, a car, anything? Has anyone ever said Calipari himself was cheating?

There has never been any complaints in those areas.

Good post by Vitale. Sums up my thoughts exactly. It's not Calipari's fault that Camby decided to take money from an agent while at UMass. It's not Calipari's fault that Rose may have cheated on his entrance tests. People who use the tired old "he had two Final Four's vacated" are missing the point - that the vacation of the two Final Fours had absolutely NOTHING to do with Calipari.

Calipari isn't, nor is any other coach, God. They can't be omnipresent and all-knowing. It just isn't possible.