[The Guru]

Violence is a reaction to an emotion. Such as anger or hate, or even fear.

Being attracted to the same sex violates pretty much every animilistic law there is. The number one reason anything is here is to procreate. We also are here to worship God. But for arguments sake we will leave religion out of it. We are here to procreate.

Alot of people will say they were born with it. For one I don't believe that. Most kids Ive known, or know of now that act like they will probably be gay are either so babied by their moms they act very feminine. Or they are so locked up by their parents that they become socially cut off. For women, usually its a woman scorn by men, or they are fat and ugly and no dude wants to be with them.

I believe some people may be more predisposed to it, thus if they are in the right/wrong circumstances they will resort to those actions. Such as an alcoholic.

Well....I have a family member that was born that way. She was 4 years older and I can go back and mark things that prove it. Like when we would all play pretend, every single time she had to play being a boy. And now all grown up....she is a "topper".

[cheerdad]

Procreate???? If that is the SOLE reason why animals and humans are here (which is the most ABSURD thing you have said so far...) then why are there so many men and women who cannot have children????? Why are there so many animal species that will eat their own young???? And I have come to the conclusion that if you knew as much as you thought you did about this subject, you would probably be the most intelligent man/woman I know. OF COURSE, just as I, you have the right to have and believe anything and everything that you want and there is no way that you nor I are going to agree on anything on this subject. It just saddens me that a supposedly Christian man as you let on you are have such strong, degrading, harsh, bitter feelings toward another human being. I do pray that God will have mercy upon you and show you your error in your ways.

[Beetle01]

Procreate???? If that is the SOLE reason why animals and humans are here (which is the most ABSURD thing you have said so far...) then why are there so many men and women who cannot have children????? Why are there so many animal species that will eat their own young???? And I have come to the conclusion that if you knew as much as you thought you did about this subject, you would probably be the most intelligent man/woman I know. OF COURSE, just as I, you have the right to have and believe anything and everything that you want and there is no way that you nor I are going to agree on anything on this subject. It just saddens me that a supposedly Christian man as you let on you are have such strong, degrading, harsh, bitter feelings toward another human being. I do pray that God will have mercy upon you and show you your error in your ways.

Yes I do believe the main purpose we are here is to procreate and live good God fearing lives.

some people can't have kids due to a genetic disorder, some are due to drugs or chemicals they have been exposed to. I sometimes party and hang out around people who are gay. I don't dislike them, treat them differently, or think of of the things you just accused me of. I have no problem with them as people. I do have a problem with them wanting marital rights. I do have a problem with their sexual preference. All of the ones I know were not always gay. Actually most of them on occasian will still sleep with the opposite sex. But they only "date" same sex. almost all of them are girls that I know though. And for the most part I just kinda figure they had some very bad relationships with guys and wanted to try something different. Thats what they have said anyways. And I guess they liked that brand a little better, who knows. Doesn't mean they have the right to marital benefits. Like I said before, its a choice.

[thecavemaster]

Yes I do believe the main purpose we are here is to procreate and live good God fearing lives.

some people can't have kids due to a genetic disorder, some are due to drugs or chemicals they have been exposed to. I sometimes party and hang out around people who are gay. I don't dislike them, treat them differently, or think of of the things you just accused me of. I have no problem with them as people. I do have a problem with them wanting marital rights. I do have a problem with their sexual preference. All of the ones I know were not always gay. Actually most of them on occasian will still sleep with the opposite sex. But they only "date" same sex. almost all of them are girls that I know though. And for the most part I just kinda figure they had some very bad relationships with guys and wanted to try something different. Thats what they have said anyways. And I guess they liked that brand a little better, who knows. Doesn't mean they have the right to marital benefits. Like I said before, its a choice.

Doesn't your argument, by clear implication, mean that heterosexuals also make a "choice," and, therefore, any benefits they receive from the government are given based on religious law, and/or on codified law? Which means Equal Protection would apply, using the very logic of your own premise? I would think separation of church and state violation might also apply?

[DevilsWin]

If your theory is that being gay is, "A Choice".

You must also believe that "all people", even those who claim to be heterosexual, have "secret gay feelings" that they effectively stamp out with the influence of Judeo/Christian Law.

[Kentucky_Liberal]

Yes I do believe the main purpose we are here is to procreate and live good God fearing lives.

some people can't have kids due to a genetic disorder, some are due to drugs or chemicals they have been exposed to. I sometimes party and hang out around people who are gay. I don't dislike them, treat them differently, or think of of the things you just accused me of. I have no problem with them as people. I do have a problem with them wanting marital rights. I do have a problem with their sexual preference. All of the ones I know were not always gay. Actually most of them on occasian will still sleep with the opposite sex. But they only "date" same sex. almost all of them are girls that I know though. And for the most part I just kinda figure they had some very bad relationships with guys and wanted to try something different. Thats what they have said anyways. And I guess they liked that brand a little better, who knows. Doesn't mean they have the right to marital benefits. Like I said before, its a choice.

if pro-creation is the only reason for life what is the purpose of living anyway??...lol

[Mr.Kimball]

If your theory is that being gay is, "A Choice".

You must also believe that "all people", even those who claim to be heterosexual, have "secret gay feelings" that they effectively stamp out with the influence of Judeo/Christian Law.

.......

[RavenBoy]

Wrong Wrong Wrong

[Magicjefferson25]

Who are we to deny someone their basics rights? They should have the same rights as everyone else, which includes being able to marry.

[uk_fan0707]

After reading a few of the posts, I have to ask aren't some of you being somewhat hypocritical?? You are very quick on the defense against those who disagree with the lifestyle and one post even said that they would pray for someone who disagreed. If you are a Christian and truly believe in the power of prayer, then you should know what the Bible says about homosexuality. This is just my opinion and I don't won't to offend anyone...I feel that everyone has a right to their opinions and how they choose to live their life. I disagree with homosexuality because of my religious belief, however, I would never hate or degrade someone for their choices. If I did, I would in turn be just as hypocritical as some of the others on here for the Bible says to love EVERYONE!

[thecavemaster]

After reading a few of the posts, I have to ask aren't some of you being somewhat hypocritical?? You are very quick on the defense against those who disagree with the lifestyle and one post even said that they would pray for someone who disagreed. If you are a Christian and truly believe in the power of prayer, then you should know what the Bible says about homosexuality. This is just my opinion and I don't won't to offend anyone...I feel that everyone has a right to their opinions and how they choose to live their life. I disagree with homosexuality because of my religious belief, however, I would never hate or degrade someone for their choices. If I did, I would in turn be just as hypocritical as some of the others on here for the Bible says to love EVERYONE!

Do your religious convictions motivate you to feel it wrong to give gay couples the right to marry in a Constitutional democracy? Frankly, your post above is "sweet" and all, but I've seen a lot of "sweet" people willing to deny people basic rights based on personal convictions.

[Mr.Kimball]

:puking:


Yeah, I said it.

[LadyKatFan]

Who are we to deny someone rights or privelages. We are all people and all deserve to be treated equal. When the world is over, then everyone can face their own judgement, until then, no one should be able to say one way or the other what people get what rights while here on earth....just my opinion.

[blitz43]

Who are we to deny someone rights or privelages. We are all people and all deserve to be treated equal. When the world is over, then everyone can face their own judgement, until then, no one should be able to say one way or the other what people get what rights while here on earth....just my opinion.

Well let's just give everyone everything they want. Let's see what kind of world we would have then.

[thecavemaster]

Well let's just give everyone everything they want. Let's see what kind of world we would have then.

This is, of course, an argument to the extreme...one of the most common logical fallacies used. The sort of if we allow "A" then it won't be long until "B"... when "A" and "B" are not connected or relevant to each other.

[Beetle01]

If your theory is that being gay is, "A Choice".

You must also believe that "all people", even those who claim to be heterosexual, have "secret gay feelings" that they effectively stamp out with the influence of Judeo/Christian Law.

So going by your theory then, we must all be pedophiles and into having sex with animals. like I said its a sexual choice. you could choose to have a boyfriend if you like, doesn't mean if you two want to get married that you have the right to have it recognized by State or Federal governments, because it is not a right to have your marriage recognized by those institutions.


We do treat people differently in this country. Affirmitive Action and Title IX are perfect examples of how this country goes overboard with PC crap.

There is no legal standing in an argument for Gay marriage, all you can do is try one liners, and all Cave does is show how much hate he has for Christianity because that is all he babbles about in every topic no matter what the discussion is, he always reverts to discussing God. Seems to me he has some personal religious issues he needs to settle.

[thecavemaster]

So going by your theory then, we must all be pedophiles and into having sex with animals. like I said its a sexual choice. you could choose to have a boyfriend if you like, doesn't mean if you two want to get married that you have the right to have it recognized by State or Federal governments, because it is not a right to have your marriage recognized by those institutions.


We do treat people differently in this country. Affirmitive Action and Title IX are perfect examples of how this country goes overboard with PC crap.

There is no legal standing in an argument for Gay marriage, all you can do is try one liners, and all Cave does is show how much hate he has for Christianity because that is all he babbles about in every topic no matter what the discussion is, he always reverts to discussing God. Seems to me he has some personal religious issues he needs to settle.

Now, now, Beetle, play nice. You root your ideas in Judaeo/Christian thought, even claim so, then when confronted with what you call "babble" (defined by you, I guess, as anything that does not agree with your worldview) you get your boxers in a wad. There IS a legal standing; it has been argued, at times successfully. The concept is "equal protection under the law." It is possible to become so nativistic in interpreting the Constitution that you render it a dead document: it is a living document, breathing freedom and liberty and equality like new breath for an ever changing culture.

[Beetle01]

Now, now, Beetle, play nice. You root your ideas in Judaeo/Christian thought, even claim so, then when confronted with what you call "babble" (defined by you, I guess, as anything that does not agree with your worldview) you get your boxers in a wad. There IS a legal standing; it has been argued, at times successfully. The concept is "equal protection under the law." It is possible to become so nativistic in interpreting the Constitution that you render it a dead document: it is a living document, breathing freedom and liberty and equality like new breath for an ever changing culture.

I don't get my boxers in a wad, as I don't wear boxers, I wear the hybrid tyvm. Just because my principles lie in my Christian values, doesn't mean I am not capable of putting them aside and arguing a topic without using my religion to make my point. However, you cannot. You speak more about God and Christianity that anyone on here. You can't argue the right to gay marriage unless you try and attack Christian values, however, there are gay people who do not want gays to have the right to vote. Its not just those Christian values that determine someone's stance on this subject, there are Christians who are also ok with Gay marriage.

I agree the Constitution is a living breathing document, but its not meant to be changed on every whim, or be interpreted based on the views of the times. Its living breathing in the fact that it can be changed, but it is not easy, if Gays want the right to marry, then maybe they should get an amendment added to this living breathing Constitution.

Once again for umptenthousandth time, equal protection covers constitutional rights, marital recognition by the state or federal govt. is not a constitutional right.

[DevilsWin]

I don't get my boxers in a wad, as I don't wear boxers, I wear the hybrid tyvm. Just because my principles lie in my Christian values, doesn't mean I am not capable of putting them aside and arguing a topic without using my religion to make my point. However, you cannot. You speak more about God and Christianity that anyone on here. You can't argue the right to gay marriage unless you try and attack Christian values, however, there are gay people who do not want gays to have the right to vote. Its not just those Christian values that determine someone's stance on this subject, there are Christians who are also ok with Gay marriage.

I agree the Constitution is a living breathing document, but its not meant to be changed on every whim, or be interpreted based on the views of the times. Its living breathing in the fact that it can be changed, but it is not easy, if Gays want the right to marry, then maybe they should get an amendment added to this living breathing Constitution.

Once again for umptenthousandth time, equal protection covers constitutional rights, marital recognition by the state or federal govt. is not a constitutional right.

Can we not argue that it is under the following:

Freedom of expression- Expressing love for one another
Freedom of conscience- Not having to feel like being Gay is wrong
Freedom of speech- Professing love for another legally

Life, Libery and the Pursuit of Happiness= marriage

[thecavemaster]

I don't get my boxers in a wad, as I don't wear boxers, I wear the hybrid tyvm. Just because my principles lie in my Christian values, doesn't mean I am not capable of putting them aside and arguing a topic without using my religion to make my point. However, you cannot. You speak more about God and Christianity that anyone on here. You can't argue the right to gay marriage unless you try and attack Christian values, however, there are gay people who do not want gays to have the right to vote. Its not just those Christian values that determine someone's stance on this subject, there are Christians who are also ok with Gay marriage.

I agree the Constitution is a living breathing document, but its not meant to be changed on every whim, or be interpreted based on the views of the times. Its living breathing in the fact that it can be changed, but it is not easy, if Gays want the right to marry, then maybe they should get an amendment added to this living breathing Constitution.

Once again for umptenthousandth time, equal protection covers constitutional rights, marital recognition by the state or federal govt. is not a constitutional right.

Well, it seemed to me like you were getting your hybrids in a wad. You have stated elsewhere that you feel your beliefs are anchored in a correct interpretation of Judaeo/Christian thought. Others argue "god this and god that" about most all topics. Can you explain why turning this around to offer a different perspective annoys you? In my reading, "jesus" was a radical who threatened (with power of spirit) the existing political, social and economic power structures, which got him executed. In my reading, the poor are blessed, those who mourn in a broken and unjust system are blessed. And, once again, the issue you announce as settled is making its way through the courts, where, no doubt, Mr. Nativist himself (Justice Scalia) will pontificate your position.

[uk_fan0707]

Do your religious convictions motivate you to feel it wrong to give gay couples the right to marry in a Constitutional democracy? Frankly, your post above is "sweet" and all, but I've seen a lot of "sweet" people willing to deny people basic rights based on personal convictions.

Thanks cavemaster...I thought it was pretty sweet myself....also, thanks again for pointing out my opinions on denying people rights, I read my post again and still didn't see anything about that! I guess I must have missed something in my own post! All I can seem to find is my personal opinion on the topic WITHOUT getting into Constitutional rights (that's a whole other debate which I frankly don't want to get into and feel should be left up to people a little more qualified in the political area than we are)).....But again, I thank you for having such a keen eye to point out things that I just can't seem to find!

[thecavemaster]

Thanks cavemaster...I thought it was pretty sweet myself....also, thanks again for pointing out my opinions on denying people rights, I read my post again and still didn't see anything about that! I guess I must have missed something in my own post! All I can seem to find is my personal opinion on the topic WITHOUT getting into Constitutional rights (that's a whole other debate which I frankly don't want to get into and feel should be left up to people a little more qualified in the political area than we are)).....But again, I thank you for having such a keen eye to point out things that I just can't seem to find!

In my post, I tied religious convictions and rights in the form of a question, asking for your opinion, not already sticking you with one. I am suggesting that "Love everyone" has not been a safeguard in the past from religion-based bigotry. I am not suggesting you yourself practice this duality.

[Beetle01]

Seriously debate with liberals is pointless, they cant argue their side due to the fact they have no ethics. Their only arguments are to attack us personally or attack our belief structure in some way that makes no sense to anyone but them, because in their mind they need something to justify their beliefs. They keep bringing up Jesus and what he did. Well none of us are Jesus nor will we ever be. I can only do what I feel is in the best interest of my family and the people in my country within the guidelines of my beliefs, religious and social. You all don't seem to have those same interests. We have laws and a structured govt in this country for a reason, we don't change those because a small percentage of the country who most in this country want nothing to do with, decide they want to get married, basically to try and throw it in the face of everyone else, and lets face it 95% of them just want to throw their homosexualism in the face of everyone else. However, luckily for us we have a structured govt, with sound principles(for now) and we don't change our laws, constitution, or ways of conducting business on the whims of a few fanaticals who preach equal rights, but only for them. Its a joke seriously. Imdone discussing this issue. My point has been made clear, and the arguments against are only attacks on what your opinions and assumptions are about my religion.

[thecavemaster]

Here is a point to ponder: for years and years and years, the religious right has pounded "liberals" with faith and values and god and family self-righteousness. However, in one thread, over the course of a few weeks, conservatives show themselves offended when a "liberal" fights back with the arguments of an alternative perspective offered in Judaeo/Christian thinking.

[Matman]

Here is a point to ponder: for years and years and years, the religious right has pounded "liberals" with faith and values and god and family self-righteousness. However, in one thread, over the course of a few weeks, conservatives show themselves offended when a "liberal" fights back with the arguments of an alternative perspective offered in Judaeo/Christian thinking.

You seem to be a "one trick pony". Every argument you bring yourself into you always seem to bring up religion. I don't know what you have against Judaeo/Christians but it must run deep.

[thecavemaster]

B

You seem to be a "one trick pony". Every argument you bring yourself into you always seem to bring up religion. I don't know what you have against Judaeo/Christians but it must run deep.

Good song...going to see the movie (The Wrestler) soon. My argument for gay marriage is based on the Equal Protection Clause. I am seldom the one who first makes an appeal to religion. I admire the actual "jesus"... just don't believe in the prettied up, middle class character taking his place.

[Matman]

B

Good song...going to see the movie (The Wrestler) soon. My argument for gay marriage is based on the Equal Protection Clause. I am seldom the one who first makes an appeal to religion. I admire the actual "jesus"... just don't believe in the prettied up, middle class character taking his place.

You know I was in Nasaria in 2003 and i was sitting on the Ziggerat. Its also known as The Moon Temple and the Temple of Abraham. I would wonder what Jesus was really like. Just growing up in such a harsh enviroment, strict cast system, and a violent society.

[Deathstar 80]

I personally think us Christians (or at least me) sometimes forget that we shouldn't condemn ( make fun of, insult, etc.) homosexuals, but instead care and pray for them. And yes, the bible is against homosexuality but it's also against the condemnation of homosexuals.

[EKY Sportster]

Interesting....such narrow minded thinking....it just amazes me. I have A LOT of gay friends, that are gay couples, and even witnessed a man dying and the hospital administration would not let his partner of 17 years be by his bedside at his death. He had no other family and this man died alone, he was 48 years old, he died of pancreatic cancer. Until you sat and witness something like this, and if you are any kind of human being with any kind of heart, please do not judge someone and deny them any privledges held by any other loving couple. Even a man and woman, that live together, either one of them would have been able to be by the bedside of their dying partner. Being gay is not about sex, as you have implied. But...this is definitely a topic that can, has, and always will bring about strong debate. We all have very strong opinions on this subject, and the last thing I want to do is be a part of what could turn into an ugly topic. So, please, we can continue to discuss this, but let us keep it civil, not degrading to anyone.....sound fair????? :-)

Why would a girlfriend be permitted to be by his bedside but not his "gay" companion? :confused: That makes no sense?

[EKY Sportster]

Well if you are gay then live your life as such if you choose. However, the Bible forbids it and that is that! You can't have your cake and eat it too. The Bible is too clear on this topic to be misinterpreted.