[Beetle01]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28404637/

whats everyone's feelings on the current events going on in the Gaza Strip right now.

[vundy33]

The fighting will never stop between Israel and Hamas....Israel will just have to keep killing them until they decide to stop for a while, then Hamas will fire another rocket into Israel and it was start back over again.

[Magicjefferson25]

I say who cares, let them kill each other. As long as they don't bother us, no need to worry about it.

[thecavemaster]

I say who cares, let them kill each other. As long as they don't bother us, no need to worry about it.

Your words, your words...the power of your words, the depth of thought, the quality of the ideas...

[vundy33]

I say who cares, let them kill each other. As long as they don't bother us, no need to worry about it.

I wouldn't care to get in on some of the action...What i'm focusing on is Pakistan though. It looks more and more like we're going to be there in the near future, welcomed or not.

[DevilsWin]

I hope for peace in the Holy Land but it will take 2 leaders like we haven't seen since Ghandi.

Hamas is no good for the people of Gaza.

Only Fatah was capable of peace with Israel and they have grown too weak in Gaza.

I say let Egypt absorb Gaza. They will restore law and order.

[guyfawkes]

It is pretty much chaos over there, and as long as both of them exist, their will always be fighting amongst them, but I too believe Pakistan is much more of a threat because them and India seem on the verge of war and both have nuclear weapons so that does pose much more of a threat I think. Plus, I believe Pakistan's govt. is unstable.

[NEXT]

Israel needs to CRUSH Hamas.......as in kill them all.

[BFritz]

war in the Middle East starts and gas jumps 20 cents in one day................. coincidence?

[Beetle01]

I get tired of hearing about how innocent the people in Gaza are. They elected HAMAS. HAMAS is the one carrying out the strikes. So in my eyes it is the Gaza military conducting operations against Israel. Thus leaving their entrie population at risk.

[Beetle01]

I hope for peace in the Holy Land but it will take 2 leaders like we haven't seen since Ghandi.

Hamas is no good for the people of Gaza.

Only Fatah was capable of peace with Israel and they have grown too weak in Gaza.

I say let Egypt absorb Gaza. They will restore law and order.

Egypt wants nothing to do with that mess. Heck they opened fire on Palestenians trying to flee into Egypt. So I don't know what makes one think they would want to absorb it. Then all of their people would be free to go into Egypt. A simple solution to all of this is for one for one of the Arab countries to absorb the Palestenian people. However, it shows that none of those countries care about those people, they just want to use them as a reason to conduct operation against Israel.

[Beetle01]

****WARNING****
**Extremely Graphic**

This is a video taken shortly after an airstrike in palestine by Israeli's. Not sure what the target was. Not sure the numbers of dead and injured. There are dead corpses. People dying. Dead Children, and body parts. So I caution you if you are thinking of watching this video. But this puts real feeling into something that we all to easily seperate ourselves from.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Leaked_gra..._0104.html

[Beetle01]

Will a mod delete the above thread and this one please. Thank You.

[thecavemaster]

I get tired of hearing about how innocent the people in Gaza are. They elected HAMAS. HAMAS is the one carrying out the strikes. So in my eyes it is the Gaza military conducting operations against Israel. Thus leaving their entrie population at risk.

To kill in the "name of god" only suggests what I believe...that religion poisons everything. However, the picture of a Palestinian woman in the settlement land of the West Bank watching an Israeli soldier kick through her bedroom window, while her husband is called to a forced gathering point of fifteen to forty-five year old male's... the Palestinians live in an occupied land, denied sovereignty and often dignity. A people find they can't take any more so they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone.

[DevilsWin]

I get tired of hearing about how innocent the people in Gaza are. They elected HAMAS. HAMAS is the one carrying out the strikes. So in my eyes it is the Gaza military conducting operations against Israel. Thus leaving their entrie population at risk.

Hamas fed them when they were hungry, Hamas clothed them when they were naked, Hamas gave them clean water to drink, Hamas gave them shelter. Hamas is very good at public relations, especially in a country of refugees. That is why they won the election. Not because Hamas supports the destruction of Israel. Because Hamas keeps the lights on! Just like Hezzbollah in Lebanon.

[NEXT]

To kill in the "name of god" only suggests what I believe...that religion poisons everything. However, the picture of a Palestinian woman in the settlement land of the West Bank watching an Israeli soldier kick through her bedroom window, while her husband is called to a forced gathering point of fifteen to forty-five year old male's... the Palestinians live in an occupied land, denied sovereignty and often dignity. A people find they can't take any more so they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone.

What exactly is a Palestinian?

Why is that their land?

[NEXT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_B1H-1op...p?t=171672

In short, what they do is manipulate photographs and films of Israel and stage scenes for international news coverage. Palestinians fake Injuries, exaggerate death counts, acting like the victims they claim to be.

[thecavemaster]

What exactly is a Palestinian?

Why is that their land?

You do understand that before 1948 a large group of people lived in "Israel" that were displaced? pushed to the margins (West Bank, Gaza etc.)? These people could be referred to as "Palestinians." Again, using bombs in the name of "god" is poison. Also, every nation uses propoganda before, during, and after every war. American media cannot show caskets brought to Andrews Air Force Base, a policy which doesn't have much to do with tender feelings for the families.

[Beetle01]

To kill in the "name of god" only suggests what I believe...that religion poisons everything. However, the picture of a Palestinian woman in the settlement land of the West Bank watching an Israeli soldier kick through her bedroom window, while her husband is called to a forced gathering point of fifteen to forty-five year old male's... the Palestinians live in an occupied land, denied sovereignty and often dignity. A people find they can't take any more so they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone.

No people poision religion, using God's name to commit evil deeds. The ISraeli's settled that land long long long ago, way before the religion of Islam even existed. Long before the Palestenians were there. Think of David and Samson. Israel defeated the Phillistine's a long time ago for the right to that land. Arabs own 99% of the land in that region and 99% of the wealth. They have room for these people, but it doesn't further their cause to take care of them.

Hamas fed them when they were hungry, Hamas clothed them when they were naked, Hamas gave them clean water to drink, Hamas gave them shelter. Hamas is very good at public relations, especially in a country of refugees. That is why they won the election. Not because Hamas supports the destruction of Israel. Because Hamas keeps the lights on! Just like Hezzbollah in Lebanon.

Actually Israel supplies 75% of the electricity to Gaza. So They keep the lights on.

When I look at this situation I look at it like this. If Israel was disarmed, what would happen to them? They woudl be killed in a day. If the Palestenians were disarmed what woudl happen? There would be peace.

The land is not theirs. Noone owns land anyways. Ownership is an agreement between men. The Palestenians have no rightful claim to that land over the Jews. They lost it a long time ago, and they are just sore losers. Its time for them to go. Plenty of land and wealth in their brother Arab countries to support them.

Christians have a stronger claim than any muslims. Our religion is older than theirs and existed before.

[thecavemaster]

No people poision religion, using God's name to commit evil deeds. The ISraeli's settled that land long long long ago, way before the religion of Islam even existed. Long before the Palestenians were there. Think of David and Samson. Israel defeated the Phillistine's a long time ago for the right to that land. Arabs own 99% of the land in that region and 99% of the wealth. They have room for these people, but it doesn't further their cause to take care of them.






Actually Israel supplies 75% of the electricity to Gaza. So They keep the lights on.

When I look at this situation I look at it like this. If Israel was disarmed, what would happen to them? They woudl be killed in a day. If the Palestenians were disarmed what woudl happen? There would be peace.

The land is not theirs. Noone owns land anyways. Ownership is an agreement between men. The Palestenians have no rightful claim to that land over the Jews. They lost it a long time ago, and they are just sore losers. Its time for them to go. Plenty of land and wealth in their brother Arab countries to support them.

Christians have a stronger claim to that are than any muslims. Our religion is older than theirs and existed before.

The BELIEF that one can say, "God is great" (Allah akhbar) before killing a bunch of people is poison, as is much of religion. I don't think saying, "Hey, we keep your lights on" means a group or nation or power elite has the right to transcend the boundaries of justice and prejudice and human dignity. Israel, of course, has the right to defend its citizens, to pursue its national security goals. However, Israel is far from a perfect nation and has treated the people who inhabited the land in the years leading up to 1948 in a manner that must "shame" god him or herself. "Our religion is older than theirs; let's build a reservation in South Dakota and let 'em live there." ...speaking of an example where religion posions everything...

[Beetle01]

The BELIEF that one can say, "God is great" (Allah akhbar) before killing a bunch of people is poison, as is much of religion. I don't think saying, "Hey, we keep your lights on" means a group or nation or power elite has the right to transcend the boundaries of justice and prejudice and human dignity. Israel, of course, has the right to defend its citizens, to pursue its national security goals. However, Israel is far from a perfect nation and has treated the people who inhabited the land in the years leading up to 1948 in a manner that must "shame" god him or herself. "Our religion is older than theirs; let's build a reservation in South Dakota and let 'em live there." ...speaking of an example where religion posions everything...

The Indians were unable to defend and keep their land. This has been the way the world has always worked. Indians were offered many chances to join and be part of a new nation. They would have been better served. Instead they belived that a few thousand of them had the right to land the size of entire states, and they fought to keep it. They lost, so now they deal with what their ancestors did for them. Just like we deal with what our ancestors did for us. Just like the Palestenians deal with the fact that their ancestors were defeated by the Jews for the right to that area.

The Palestenians have no claim to that land. Don't give me this pre 48 crap. This goes back farther than 1948. The simple fact is that they could still live there happily and in peace, but that is not what they want. They want the Jews gone. Israel is just nto Jews. Its Arabs, Jews, Christians, Muslims. They even serve in their govt, and obviously in their military. Muslims serve in the Israeli military. It is the Palestenian people who think they have a right to all that land and want everyone else gone that are the problem. Its time for them to go, they've cause enough problems. One of thier brother Arab nations can take them in. Actually Egypt and Jordan have offered them all citizenship a long time ago and offered them to move there. They didn't want to. If they choose to stay and wage war on Israel, then war is what they will recieve. Its bloody, ugly and terrible. But don't whine when you had a chance to avoid it. The Israeli's have nowhere to go. That is there homeland, they were the first people to settle it thousands of years ago, before the Palestenians probably even knew it was there.

[Beef]

Hamas fed them when they were hungry, Hamas clothed them when they were naked, Hamas gave them clean water to drink, Hamas gave them shelter. Hamas is very good at public relations, especially in a country of refugees. That is why they won the election. Not because Hamas supports the destruction of Israel. Because Hamas keeps the lights on! Just like Hezzbollah in Lebanon.

So did Hitler and we know how that turned out. Now I don't see Hamas ever being powerful enough to attack the world, but they have the ability to keep attacking Isreal.

[DevilsWin]

So did Hitler and we know how that turned out. Now I don't see Hamas ever being powerful enough to attack the world, but they have the ability to keep attacking Isreal.

I was explainging as to how and why Hamas was elected to run the Gov't and defeated Fatah!

No one blamed the Germans for the Nazi Party and Hitler. All was forgiven.

[thecavemaster]

The Indians were unable to defend and keep their land. This has been the way the world has always worked. Indians were offered many chances to join and be part of a new nation. They would have been better served. Instead they belived that a few thousand of them had the right to land the size of entire states, and they fought to keep it. They lost, so now they deal with what their ancestors did for them. Just like we deal with what our ancestors did for us. Just like the Palestenians deal with the fact that their ancestors were defeated by the Jews for the right to that area.

The Palestenians have no claim to that land. Don't give me this pre 48 crap. This goes back farther than 1948. The simple fact is that they could still live there happily and in peace, but that is not what they want. They want the Jews gone. Israel is just nto Jews. Its Arabs, Jews, Christians, Muslims. They even serve in their govt, and obviously in their military. Muslims serve in the Israeli military. It is the Palestenian people who think they have a right to all that land and want everyone else gone that are the problem. Its time for them to go, they've cause enough problems. One of thier brother Arab nations can take them in. Actually Egypt and Jordan have offered them all citizenship a long time ago and offered them to move there. They didn't want to. If they choose to stay and wage war on Israel, then war is what they will recieve. Its bloody, ugly and terrible. But don't whine when you had a chance to avoid it. The Israeli's have nowhere to go. That is there homeland, they were the first people to settle it thousands of years ago, before the Palestenians probably even knew it was there.

In 1972, a group of Native Americans came to the Republican National Convention (Richard Nixon) with signs that said, "In a manner that must shame god himself." I would be interested, given your stated anchoring in Judaeo-Christian tradition, to hear your views on evolution, as your comments above on inability to protect one's land sound like social Darwinism (survival of the fittest...domain of the strong...those with the biggest guns win). Has a mass exile of Israelis been suggested? Granted, Hamas and groups like them (who deny Israel's right to exist and believe "allah" is glorified in violence) poison the well of peace. However, to refuse to recognize that Palestinians have legitimate grievances and suffer many injustices is fairly incomprehensible to me.

[Beetle01]

In 1972, a group of Native Americans came to the Republican National Convention (Richard Nixon) with signs that said, "In a manner that must shame god himself." I would be interested, given your stated anchoring in Judaeo-Christian tradition, to hear your views on evolution, as your comments above on inability to protect one's land sound like social Darwinism (survival of the fittest...domain of the strong...those with the biggest guns win). Has a mass exile of Israelis been suggested? Granted, Hamas and groups like them (who deny Israel's right to exist and believe "allah" is glorified in violence) poison the well of peace. However, to refuse to recognize that Palestinians have legitimate grievances and suffer many injustices is fairly incomprehensible to me.

A mass exile of Israeli's is what all the Arabs and Muslims want. If these people were not fighting against Israel. We would be over there trying to make peace between Hezbollah and Hamas because one is Sunni and one is Shiite. We have given these people countless chances, held back the Israeli's numerous times.

Now rocket attacks are coming in from southern Lebanon. Noone knows who shot them yet, it could be Palestenians. But if its Hezbollah, things are going to get much much worse.


On what grounds do the Palestenians have a grievance? The Israeli's were the first people in history to settle that land. So they can't use the we were here first. Like I said they could live their peacefully, and all this could be ended. They would need to curtail their radicals. Not support them and treat them like rockstars. Islam is a barbaric religion. Its based on converting or killing all non muslims. That is the true problem.

Even Muhammed himself said "If one changes his religion - Kill him" That's their supposed savior justifying murder.

[thecavemaster]

A mass exile of Israeli's is what all the Arabs and Muslims want. If these people were not fighting against Israel. We would be over there trying to make peace between Hezbollah and Hamas because one is Sunni and one is Shiite. We have given these people countless chances, held back the Israeli's numerous times.

Now rocket attacks are coming in from southern Lebanon. Noone knows who shot them yet, it could be Palestenians. But if its Hezbollah, things are going to get much much worse.


On what grounds do the Palestenians have a grievance? The Israeli's were the first people in history to settle that land. So they can't use the we were here first. Like I said they could live their peacefully, and all this could be ended. They would need to curtail their radicals. Not support them and treat them like rockstars. Islam is a barbaric religion. Its based on converting or killing all non muslims. That is the true problem.

Even Muhammed himself said "If one changes his religion - Kill him" That's their supposed savior justifying murder.

I would suggest that the "yahweh" of the old testament did a pretty good job of often completely destroying those of opposing belief (Amalakites, Philistines and the like). If you do not think the Palestinians have any grievance whatsoever, that all Moslems are suicidal bombing fanatics, that one can use a word like "they" and include it to mean "all," then I cannot see that a legitimate debate on this issue with you is possible.

[Beetle01]

I would suggest that the "yahweh" of the old testament did a pretty good job of often completely destroying those of opposing belief (Amalakites, Philistines and the like). If you do not think the Palestinians have any grievance whatsoever, that all Moslems are suicidal bombing fanatics, that one can use a word like "they" and include it to mean "all," then I cannot see that a legitimate debate on this issue with you is possible.

Im not debating on this issue. I am just stating how I feel on this. I don't feel most muslims are suicide bombers. However, their own religion states that it is their duty to convert or kill. Sorry but thats the truth, some may not follow that, but that is the nature of Islam.

Do you think you could show up suddenly in Tehran and walk safely down the street any time of night? But I guarantee you any one of them could come here and walk safely down Winchester Ave. in Ashland safely. Well atleast as long as the Duct tape bandit isn't around. Sorry, judging by the history and nature of the people in the region and their religion. I have concluded that they are all inevitably violent towards Christians and the West. Look how they treat their women.

[Beetle01]

When many doctors in the area who were muslim on 9-11 were telling people this is what we deserve. People who live here, who's kids were born here and make their living here say such things, I lose all respect for any Muslim. Look at the Black radicals in this country. Majority of the time they convert to Islam before becoming militaristic and violent.

[thecavemaster]

Im not debating on this issue. I am just stating how I feel on this. I don't feel most muslims are suicide bombers. However, their own religion states that it is their duty to convert or kill. Sorry but thats the truth, some may not follow that, but that is the nature of Islam.

Do you think you could show up suddenly in Tehran and walk safely down the street any time of night? But I guarantee you any one of them could come here and walk safely down Winchester Ave. in Ashland safely. Well atleast as long as the Duct tape bandit isn't around. Sorry, judging by the history and nature of the people in the region and their religion. I have concluded that they are all inevitably violent towards Christians and the West. Look how they treat their women.

We judge their treatment of women by our standards, our culture. Using your "history and religion" argument: it wasn't that long ago that women were denied the right to vote, to bring a law suit, to have property in their name in this country. Then, the progression of history and evolution of ideas brought about change. The "nature of Islam," as the nature of Christianity, can be a chameleon, depending on interpretation. Some people believe "god" gave the earth to people to use as they see fit. They tend to use words like "tree hugger." Others see it as stewardship: the taking care of something that BELONGS TO ANOTHER, with concern and gratitude. Some believe in the theory of the "just war." Others see "Blessed are the peacemakers" as the standard. One would almost think different religions are being discussed, which, in fact, they are.

[Matman]

In 1972, a group of Native Americans came to the Republican National Convention (Richard Nixon) with signs that said, "In a manner that must shame god himself." I would be interested, given your stated anchoring in Judaeo-Christian tradition, to hear your views on evolution, as your comments above on inability to protect one's land sound like social Darwinism (survival of the fittest...domain of the strong...those with the biggest guns win). Has a mass exile of Israelis been suggested? Granted, Hamas and groups like them (who deny Israel's right to exist and believe "allah" is glorified in violence) poison the well of peace. However, to refuse to recognize that Palestinians have legitimate grievances and suffer many injustices is fairly incomprehensible to me.

Whtas wrong with Darwinism. Its not only the survival of the individually strong but sometimes the strongest groups. Strength can mean physical, mental or social. Those who can inspire people and make the greatest allies are usually the strongest.