[Beetle01]

This is from an email I recieved.

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe .
Thomas Jefferson



The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson



It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson




I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson



My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson




No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson



The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson



To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson



Very Interesting Quote

In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:

'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.'

[thecavemaster]

Good quotes... but isn't it true that quotes given without context often make for bad religion and bad argument?

[phs1986]

Good quotes... but isn't it true that quotes given without context often make for bad religion and bad argument?

Not necessarily... Isn't it a KNOWN fact that our economy is shot to heck? 15 Billion here 275 billion there..... My lord... It's crazy!! No arguments, we have been handing out right and left and where is that leaving us "working class people"? I tell you, between the power bill raising, water bill raising, added charges to insurance, phone bill going out of site... Where can we as a nation (as a whole) head but further down?
It seems Mr. "President" Jefferson himself may have been able to tell the future... LOL.... He kind of hit the nail on the head with some of those quotes!

[thecavemaster]

Not necessarily... Isn't it a KNOWN fact that our economy is shot to heck? 15 Billion here 275 billion there..... My lord... It's crazy!! No arguments, we have been handing out right and left and where is that leaving us "working class people"? I tell you, between the power bill raising, water bill raising, added charges to insurance, phone bill going out of site... Where can we as a nation (as a whole) head but further down?
It seems Mr. "President" Jefferson himself may have been able to tell the future... LOL.... He kind of hit the nail on the head with some of those quotes!

Some superintendents of schools advertise in newspapers how they are rationing paper and copying etc. etc. to cut "waste" and help balance the budget, all the while adding staffing, which is the major cost. You are suggesting that "hand outs" is the root of our economy being "shot to heck"?

[phs1986]

Some superintendents of schools advertise in newspapers how they are rationing paper and copying etc. etc. to cut "waste" and help balance the budget, all the while adding staffing, which is the major cost. You are suggesting that "hand outs" is the root of our economy being "shot to heck"?

Nope... I'm not suggesting that the hand outs is the root of our economical problems. I know that the rationing of "paper" at schools is being done as well as job cuts contrary to your statement that they are adding staff in the education field. WHICH I think is one of the worst things that could be done. We have lost 8 teachers and 6 assistants at ONE local school within the county here. My problem is that they keep raising utilities, out the roof may I add, school taxes on every bill I have is as high or higher than any other tax YET, their is more debt in our nation than the government or the establishments themselves know what to do with. I say a huge change needs to be done somewhere within the government itself OR with the budgeting practices. WHY should the children suffer? WHY do they expect each school to progress with the "No Child Left Behind" act YET, they keep taking from the schools? Priorities are out of whack! Lending practices, buyouts, payouts, taxes, its a combination of things that has led to the steady fall of our nation.

[thecavemaster]

Nope... I'm not suggesting that the hand outs is the root of our economical problems. I know that the rationing of "paper" at schools is being done as well as job cuts contrary to your statement that they are adding staff in the education field. WHICH I think is one of the worst things that could be done. We have lost 8 teachers and 6 assistants at ONE local school within the county here. My problem is that they keep raising utilities, out the roof may I add, school taxes on every bill I have is as high or higher than any other tax YET, their is more debt in our nation than the government or the establishments themselves know what to do with. I say a huge change needs to be done somewhere within the government itself OR with the budgeting practices. WHY should the children suffer? WHY do they expect each school to progress with the "No Child Left Behind" act YET, they keep taking from the schools? Priorities are out of whack! Lending practices, buyouts, payouts, taxes, its a combination of things that has led to the steady fall of our nation.

I said "some"... Unfunded mandates are a cause of frustration, if not disillusionment. I will believe money doesn't matter in education when rich people stop spending so much of theirs on their children's education.

[guyfawkes]

A pity, Jefferson was right on quite a few issues, and the party he started is the Democrats of today (although they were referred to as Democratic-Republicans and Republicans too) but Jefferson didn't believe in a strong central govt. and advocated states rights (one of the main causes of the Civil War). He was a very good president nonetheless and I really don't think he would approve how the country is ran today (by either side).

[Beetle01]

A pity, Jefferson was right on quite a few issues, and the party he started is the Democrats of today (although they were referred to as Democratic-Republicans and Republicans too) but Jefferson didn't believe in a strong central govt. and advocated states rights (one of the main causes of the Civil War). He was a very good president nonetheless and I really don't think he would approve how the country is ran today (by either side).

The party Jefferson started may be the same party known as the Democrats today, but that is where the similarities end. I firmly believe a vast majority if not all of our founding fathers would not be part of either party. Both are corrupt and terrible for this country. I only usually follow the Republicans because for the most part, they adhere more to a Christian moral standard. Although really that is just selecting the lesser of two evils, as they don't do a very good job of that.

[guyfawkes]

I agree with you, I'd say none of the founding fathers would be with either party, and in fact the only president who wasn't with a political party was Washington (although he is labeled a Federalist). But, I kinda wish our country would do like some of the other European nations and have more than two parties (with a chance of winning).

[DevilsWin]

The party Jefferson started may be the same party known as the Democrats today, but that is where the similarities end. I firmly believe a vast majority if not all of our founding fathers would not be part of either party. Both are corrupt and terrible for this country. I only usually follow the Republicans because for the most part, they adhere more to a Christian moral standard. Although really that is just selecting the lesser of two evils, as they don't do a very good job of that.

I beg to differ on this very point!

You can't pick and choose which of the moral standards suit you, and claim because they are in line with you that, they adhere more to the "Christian Moral Standard".

That should be a qualitative statement, yet you bloviate!:dontthink

This is the end game of any moral debate with you on any subject, summed up!

[Beetle01]

I beg to differ on this very point!

You can't pick and choose which of the moral standards suit you, and claim because they are in line with you that, they adhere more to the "Christian Moral Standard".

That should be a qualitative statement, yet you bloviate!:dontthink

This is the end game of any moral debate with you on any subject, summed up!

I didnt say that because they are in line with me that they adhere more to a Christian standard. Republicans for the most part do adhere to a more Christian social policy in national politics than do Democrats. So when I can't decide for either one because they suck on almost all issues, Im forced to side with them. Like I said to me, its the lesser of two evils. Do you ever add anythign to the topics here? Or do you just get on here and attack other posters? You bring nothing to any of these discussions, maybe you should stick to reading the threads and doing a little less posting.

[DevilsWin]

I didnt say that because they are in line with me that they adhere more to a Christian standard. Republicans for the most part do adhere to a more Christian social policy in national politics than do Democrats. So when I can't decide for either one because they suck on almost all issues, Im forced to side with them. Like I said to me, its the lesser of two evils. Do you ever add anythign to the topics here? Or do you just get on here and attack other posters? You bring nothing to any of these discussions, maybe you should stick to reading the threads and doing a little less posting.

I'm more like a referee!

That's a bold statement Beetle and a ethnocentric view.

You believe that the Republican Party is Gods Party. You're just not saying how you really feel.

If Greed and War are Christian Values I guess you're right.

[Coach_Owens87]

I'm more like a referee!

That's a bold statement Beetle and a ethnocentric view.

You believe that the Republican Party is Gods Party. You're just not saying how you really feel.

If Greed and War are Christian Values I guess you're right.

Couldnt agree with you more. Most on the "right" believe they are moral becuase in some twisted view they are more christian than others. Thats such crap, we all sin, we are no different than any other person. And if you watched any news lately, republicans are far from being moral. Child molestations, affairs, etc. The democrats are no better, but to say your republican because they are the moral party is absurd.

[Beetle01]

I'm more like a referee!

That's a bold statement Beetle and a ethnocentric view.

You believe that the Republican Party is Gods Party. You're just not saying how you really feel.

If Greed and War are Christian Values I guess you're right.

I never said the Republican Party was God's Party. Nor do I think that. No party is God's party. You and coach seem to live in your own little fantasy world. you think that because I said I side with Republicans sometimes due to the fact that politically both parties stink, but on social issues I tend to go their way, because of my Christian values, which is my deciding factor, that I think I am better than everyone else. I don't think that one bit. I know good Christians who are Dems. They must have other deciding factors. For me when I disagree largely with both parties on most major issues, but yet forced to choose, of course Im going to choose the party this is more closely lined with my social stance. Does it mean they are right 100% of the time? Abosloutely not. I hate the Republican party really, just not as much as I hate Democratic party. The dems need to get rid of their terrible leadership. Pelosi, Reid, and others who run the party. Im actually ok with Obama, if he holds up to the promises, of course we are talking about politician, so the chances of that are the same as me finding a gold mine under my house this evening.

[Beetle01]

Couldnt agree with you more. Most on the "right" believe they are moral becuase in some twisted view they are more christian than others. Thats such crap, we all sin, we are no different than any other person. And if you watched any news lately, republicans are far from being moral. Child molestations, affairs, etc. The democrats are no better, but to say your republican because they are the moral party is absurd.

Most on the right, lets see some proof. Since you demand for proof in every other topic. Lets see you provide proof, that 50.00001% of people on the political right feel the way you just described. I think we can just chalk this up as another completely ignorant post, where someone typed without thinking.

[Coach_Owens87]

I never said the Republican Party was God's Party. Nor do I think that. No party is God's party. You and coach seem to live in your own little fantasy world. you think that because I said I side with Republicans sometimes due to the fact that politically both parties stink, but on social issues I tend to go their way, because of my Christian values, which is my deciding factor, that I think I am better than everyone else. I don't think that one bit. I know good Christians who are Dems. They must have other deciding factors. For me when I disagree largely with both parties on most major issues, but yet forced to choose, of course Im going to choose the party this is more closely lined with my social stance. Does it mean they are right 100% of the time? Abosloutely not. I hate the Republican party really, just not as much as I hate Democratic party. The dems need to get rid of their terrible leadership. Pelosi, Reid, and others who run the party. Im actually ok with Obama, if he holds up to the promises, of course we are talking about politician, so the chances of that are the same as me finding a gold mine under my house this evening.

Thats not quite what you said.

From post #10:

"I only usually follow the Republicans because for the most part, they adhere more to a Christian moral standard"

No where in that did you mention that both parties stink. You said you follow Republicans becuse they are more christian than everyone else.

[Beetle01]

Thats not quite what you said.

From post #10:

"I only usually follow the Republicans because for the most part, they adhere more to a Christian moral standard"

No where in that did you mention that both parties stink. You said you follow Republicans becuse they are more christian than everyone else.

So are you saying Democrats adhere more to a Christian standard?

That was my comparison, on a national level, Repubs > Dems.

[Coach_Owens87]

So are you saying Democrats adhere more to a Christian standard?
That was my comparison, on a national level, Repubs > Dems.

Nope becuase in my opinion no party adheres to a christian standard, they adhere to the currency standard, which is do whatever benefits me the most.

[guyfawkes]

Personally, I think their shouldn't be any parties, because they are too corrupt and people do tend to vote by the party and not the person running. If their are no parties, people will pay attention to a person's agenda and hopefully the right person will win. But, abolishing the parties is near impossible.