[If...Then]

It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve

Im absolutely against Gay relationships. They make me mad just when I see them. If it was right then there'd be more Gays on Earth

[thetribe]

If it was right then there'd be more Gays on Earth

That makes about....zero...sense.

[ComfortEagle]

This thread is overflowing with ignorance.

[cheerdad]

Help me out know it all. Where is it found? I can't find where Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because people were not hospitable. If it is in there, I want to see it. What I have read is that Abraham begged God to spare the cities is there were just a few righteous people. None could be found, except for Lot's family. So please give me book, chapter and verse for that.

Well, with that accusation, then I must live up to it!!! So, here it is, from the "Know It All".


Genesis 19 describes how two angels visited Sodom and were welcomed into Lot's house. The men of the city gathered around the house and demanded that Lot send the visitors to the mob so that they might know the angels. [The Hebrew verb yada (to know) is ambiguous. It appears 943 times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). In only about a dozen of these cases does it refers to sexual activity; it is not clear whether the mob wanted to rape the angels or to meet with them, and perhaps attack them physically. From the context, it is obvious that their mood was not friendly]. Lot refused, but offered his two virgin daughters to be heterosexually raped if that would appease the mob. The offer was declined. God decided to destroy the city because of the wickedness of its inhabitants. The angels urged Lot and his family to flee and to not look back. Unfortunately, Lot's wife looked the wrong way, so God killed her because of her curiosity.
God was apparently not critical of Lot for offering his two daughters to be raped. However, God was angry at the other inhabitants of the town. He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone (sulfur). He presumably killed all of the men in the mob, their wives and other adults, as well as children, infants, newborns, etc. It is unclear from these few verses whether God demolished the city because the citizens:

1. were uncharitable and abusive to strangers
   
2. wanted to rape people
   
3. engaged in homosexual acts

The Church has traditionally accepted the third explanation. In fact, the term sodomy which means anal intercourse is derived from the name of the city, Sodom. But the first explanation is clearly the correct one. As recorded in Matthew 10:14-15 and Luke 10:7-16, Jesus implied that the sin of the people of Sodom was to be inhospitable to strangers. In Ezekeiel 16:48-50, God states clearly that he destroyed Sodom's sins because of their pride, their excess of food while the poor and needy suffered, and worshiped many idols; sexual activity is not even mentioned.

The story of Sodom and Gomorrah actually condemns inhospitality and idolatry, not homosexuality. Read the Scriptural cross-references: Deuteronomy 29:23, Isaiah 1:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Lamentations 4:6, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Amos 4:11, Zephaniah 2:9, Matthew 10:15 / Luke 10:12, Luke 17:29, Romans 9:29, Jude v.7, Revelation 11:8
NOWHERE in the Scriptures does it say that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexual sex. Even if the specific point of the story was concerning a sexual matter, rather than hospitality, the issue is rape not homosexuality. Jesus claimed the issue was simply one of showing hospitality to strangers (Luke 10:12).

There you have it my friend!!!!!

[cheerdad]

It was Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve

Im absolutely against Gay relationships. They make me mad just when I see them. If it was right then there'd be more Gays on Earth

There are a whole more out there than you realize, and it's because of this attitude that most decide to stay "in the closet" because of this type of attitude. This is another reason why there is such a high suicide rate amongst teenagers who are struggling with their sexuality. Boy, I sure would hate to have on my conscience that my attitude could cause someone to kill themselves.

[cheerdad]

The problem is that men sugarcoat things. "Gays" were once referred to as *****. Someone who is odd. Again, show me where God created two men or two women. He created a man a woman. Prove me wrong on that one. Homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God. Show me in the bible in all the history that is written where any of God's people were married to someone of the same sex. Never. Those who had wives, husbands, or concubines (in the old testament) were of the opposite sex. It is a sin against God, and if you don't believe that, well, you can choose to be wrong if you want to.

Again, you asked and here it is:

There are two Biblical same-sex relationships (one between two women, the other two men) reported in the Bible in a positive light. They appear to have progressed well beyond friendship. They were likely homosexual affairs, although not necessarily sexually active relationships:
+ Ruth 1:16, 2:10-11 between Ruth and Naomi

+ 1 Samuel 18:1-4, 1 Samuel 20:41-42 and 2 Samuel 1:25-26 between David and Jonathan. (Some translations of the Bible distort the original Hebrew text, particularly of 1 Samuel 20)

Grant it, this does not speak of marriage, but it does of same sex relationship

[Shady Grady]

Well, with that accusation, then I must live up to it!!! So, here it is, from the "Know It All".


Genesis 19 describes how two angels visited Sodom and were welcomed into Lot's house. The men of the city gathered around the house and demanded that Lot send the visitors to the mob so that they might know the angels. [The Hebrew verb yada (to know) is ambiguous. It appears 943 times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). In only about a dozen of these cases does it refers to sexual activity; it is not clear whether the mob wanted to rape the angels or to meet with them, and perhaps attack them physically. From the context, it is obvious that their mood was not friendly]. Lot refused, but offered his two virgin daughters to be heterosexually raped if that would appease the mob. The offer was declined. God decided to destroy the city because of the wickedness of its inhabitants. The angels urged Lot and his family to flee and to not look back. Unfortunately, Lot's wife looked the wrong way, so God killed her because of her curiosity.
God was apparently not critical of Lot for offering his two daughters to be raped. However, God was angry at the other inhabitants of the town. He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone (sulfur). He presumably killed all of the men in the mob, their wives and other adults, as well as children, infants, newborns, etc. It is unclear from these few verses whether God demolished the city because the citizens:

1. were uncharitable and abusive to strangers
   
2. wanted to rape people
   
3. engaged in homosexual acts

The Church has traditionally accepted the third explanation. In fact, the term sodomy which means anal intercourse is derived from the name of the city, Sodom. But the first explanation is clearly the correct one. As recorded in Matthew 10:14-15 and Luke 10:7-16, Jesus implied that the sin of the people of Sodom was to be inhospitable to strangers. In Ezekeiel 16:48-50, God states clearly that he destroyed Sodom's sins because of their pride, their excess of food while the poor and needy suffered, and worshiped many idols; sexual activity is not even mentioned.

The story of Sodom and Gomorrah actually condemns inhospitality and idolatry, not homosexuality. Read the Scriptural cross-references: Deuteronomy 29:23, Isaiah 1:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Lamentations 4:6, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Amos 4:11, Zephaniah 2:9, Matthew 10:15 / Luke 10:12, Luke 17:29, Romans 9:29, Jude v.7, Revelation 11:8
NOWHERE in the Scriptures does it say that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexual sex. Even if the specific point of the story was concerning a sexual matter, rather than hospitality, the issue is rape not homosexuality. Jesus claimed the issue was simply one of showing hospitality to strangers (Luke 10:12).

There you have it my friend!!!!!

Jesus did not imply that in Luke. When he sent out the disciples, he told them that if they would not receive his word, leave. It would be more tolerable in Sodom than to reject his Word. And Ezekial says, "They were haughty, and committed abomination before me". Wonder what that abomination was? Sodom was a wicked city. God destroyed it because of its wickedness, and homosexuality was part of that wickedness.

[Shady Grady]

Again, you asked and here it is:

There are two Biblical same-sex relationships (one between two women, the other two men) reported in the Bible in a positive light. They appear to have progressed well beyond friendship. They were likely homosexual affairs, although not necessarily sexually active relationships:
+ Ruth 1:16, 2:10-11 between Ruth and Naomi

+ 1 Samuel 18:1-4, 1 Samuel 20:41-42 and 2 Samuel 1:25-26 between David and Jonathan. (Some translations of the Bible distort the original Hebrew text, particularly of 1 Samuel 20)

Grant it, this does not speak of marriage, but it does of same sex relationship

This in no way speaks of same sex relationships. It speaks of people who were the best of friends and loved one another in that manner. Have you ever had a friend who you loved very deeply and would do anything for? That does not mean you would have sexual relations with them. No where in these passages does it say thay had sexual relations. Another example of people putting words in God's mouth to make the scripture fit them.

[Shady Grady]

This thread is overflowing with ignorance.

We finally agree on something.

[thecavemaster]

Gay in my eyes is wrong. And you Liberals will probably try and bash but that is my opinion and I stick to it plain and simple. And I agree 100% with Shady Grady.

Can we not separate our personal views on the issue from what might be a constitutional issue? I would think most people on here would say the "right to privacy" protects consenting adults within the confines of their own homes, as lots of things go on in homes that are "legal" but would not meet with personal approval. For me, "equal protection" works in the same way. For me, an unusual or more intense hatred or disgust with homosexuals is inconsistent with christian spirit, if such a thing exists. If the thieves leave a half dead person on the side of the road, be they straight or gay, white or brown or black, American, European, Oriental or all of the above, the neighborly thing is mercy.

[Beetle01]

There is no constitutional right to gay marriage. Just as there used to be no constitutional right for blacks to vote or women to vote. Sure there are flaws with our constitution. As I stated, when 38 states ratify an amendment giving gays the right to marriage, then I guess we will have to accept it.

I think what can be said about Soddom and Gamorrah is that they were destroyed for multiple reasons. Idolotry, Homosexual activity, and other things.

Gays do not deserve any right to file taxes together. They want special treatment. Hmosexuality is a disease, and should be treated as such. Not conformed to because Gays cause a ruckus by getting out and protesting.

[Shady Grady]

Yes, cave, what goes on behind closed doors is people's own business. But I agree with Beetle, they don't deserve special treatment. Like the benefits of marriage. Filing tax returns, health insurance just because they live with someone who is covered. Until a constitutional amendment is passed, they should not be entitled to federal and or state taxpayers money. And yes, I know some gay people. I do not hate them, I am friendly with them. But I do hate their lifestyle, just as I hate the lifestyle of drug addicts. Just as I hate the lifestyle of those too lazy to work, but get more money than I do.

[thecavemaster]

Do heterosexual couples file joint returns under the Constitution? Use Parent Plus plans on insurance? Family plans? If so, how is it "special rights" asked for by homosexual couples? Tax dollars go for bombs, which kill, in "collateral damage" thousands of, for example, Iraqi women and children (non-combatants). In the "blessed are the peacemakers" spirit, I oppose war. People who don't work (but who could) and receive "government handouts," as far as I know, don't kill people up into the thousands.

[Beetle01]

Do heterosexual couples file joint returns under the Constitution? Use Parent Plus plans on insurance? Family plans? If so, how is it "special rights" asked for by homosexual couples? Tax dollars go for bombs, which kill, in "collateral damage" thousands of, for example, Iraqi women and children (non-combatants). In the "blessed are the peacemakers" spirit, I oppose war. People who don't work (but who could) and receive "government handouts," as far as I know, don't kill people up into the thousands.

Because homosexuality is a disease. What separates them from anyone else who lives under the same roof, "love" eachother, but don't engage in sexual activity? Nothing.

[If...Then]

That makes about....zero...sense.

I meant if it was ok to be Gay, there'd be more gays on Earth

[thecavemaster]

Because homosexuality is a disease. What separates them from anyone else who lives under the same roof, "love" eachother, but don't engage in sexual activity? Nothing.

"Homosexuality is a disease" is asserting a conclusion that is yet to be proven...in fact, disputed by brain imaging and other research. If they enter into "civil marriage," a contract, so to speak, identical to heterosexual couples, your "what separates them" idea breaks down. Violence is a disease.

[Beetle01]

"Homosexuality is a disease" is asserting a conclusion that is yet to be proven...in fact, disputed by brain imaging and other research. If they enter into "civil marriage," a contract, so to speak, identical to heterosexual couples, your "what separates them" idea breaks down. Violence is a disease.

Violence is a reaction to an emotion. Such as anger or hate, or even fear.

Being attracted to the same sex violates pretty much every animilistic law there is. The number one reason anything is here is to procreate. We also are here to worship God. But for arguments sake we will leave religion out of it. We are here to procreate.

Alot of people will say they were born with it. For one I don't believe that. Most kids Ive known, or know of now that act like they will probably be gay are either so babied by their moms they act very feminine. Or they are so locked up by their parents that they become socially cut off. For women, usually its a woman scorn by men, or they are fat and ugly and no dude wants to be with them.

I believe some people may be more predisposed to it, thus if they are in the right/wrong circumstances they will resort to those actions. Such as an alcoholic.

[thecavemaster]

Violence is a reaction to an emotion. Such as anger or hate, or even fear.

Being attracted to the same sex violates pretty much every animilistic law there is. The number one reason anything is here is to procreate. We also are here to worship God. But for arguments sake we will leave religion out of it. We are here to procreate.

Alot of people will say they were born with it. For one I don't believe that. Most kids Ive known, or know of now that act like they will probably be gay are either so babied by their moms they act very feminine. Or they are so locked up by their parents that they become socially cut off. For women, usually its a woman scorn by men, or they are fat and ugly and no dude wants to be with them.

I believe some people may be more predisposed to it, thus if they are in the right/wrong circumstances they will resort to those actions. Such as an alcoholic.

Homosexual behavior is not that uncommon in animals. I think your analysis of the domestic causes of homosexuality is a bit primitive. I am not particularly discussing the causes of gayness: I am suggesting that the United States Constitution grant its consenting adults equal protection under the law. My personal opinions about homosexuality are not relevant here.

[tampabaybucs]

The problem is that men sugarcoat things. "Gays" were once referred to as *****. Someone who is odd. Again, show me where God created two men or two women. He created a man a woman. Prove me wrong on that one. Homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God. Show me in the bible in all the history that is written where any of God's people were married to someone of the same sex. Never. Those who had wives, husbands, or concubines (in the old testament) were of the opposite sex. It is a sin against God, and if you don't believe that, well, you can choose to be wrong if you want to.

the bible is interpeted by every person in a different way... so quoting the bible imo is all about how each individual or religion interputs it!
I have never in my life seen so many narrow minded people in one community as there are around this area. the bible also is interpeted by some to say that thall shall not judge and thall shall love one another... some people only want to quote certain things from the bible but at the same time, commit sin at the same time by being judgemental of other human beings. If gays bother you, then stay away from them and keep your opinion to yourself!!!

[tampabaybucs]

Violence is a reaction to an emotion. Such as anger or hate, or even fear.

Being attracted to the same sex violates pretty much every animilistic law there is. The number one reason anything is here is to procreate. We also are here to worship God. But for arguments sake we will leave religion out of it. We are here to procreate.

Alot of people will say they were born with it. For one I don't believe that. Most kids Ive known, or know of now that act like they will probably be gay are either so babied by their moms they act very feminine. Or they are so locked up by their parents that they become socially cut off. For women, usually its a woman scorn by men, or they are fat and ugly and no dude wants to be with them.

I believe some people may be more predisposed to it, thus if they are in the right/wrong circumstances they will resort to those actions. Such as an alcoholic.

Are you gay????????? If so then maybe you can make this comment... IF not, how do you know?????

[tampabaybucs]

Because homosexuality is a disease. What separates them from anyone else who lives under the same roof, "love" eachother, but don't engage in sexual activity? Nothing.

OMG, now its a disease??!!! Do any of you people have an education? I can only say.... narrow minded IDIOTS!!!!!

[thecavemaster]

Well, with that accusation, then I must live up to it!!! So, here it is, from the "Know It All".


Genesis 19 describes how two angels visited Sodom and were welcomed into Lot's house. The men of the city gathered around the house and demanded that Lot send the visitors to the mob so that they might know the angels. [The Hebrew verb yada (to know) is ambiguous. It appears 943 times in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). In only about a dozen of these cases does it refers to sexual activity; it is not clear whether the mob wanted to rape the angels or to meet with them, and perhaps attack them physically. From the context, it is obvious that their mood was not friendly]. Lot refused, but offered his two virgin daughters to be heterosexually raped if that would appease the mob. The offer was declined. God decided to destroy the city because of the wickedness of its inhabitants. The angels urged Lot and his family to flee and to not look back. Unfortunately, Lot's wife looked the wrong way, so God killed her because of her curiosity.
God was apparently not critical of Lot for offering his two daughters to be raped. However, God was angry at the other inhabitants of the town. He destroyed Sodom with fire and brimstone (sulfur). He presumably killed all of the men in the mob, their wives and other adults, as well as children, infants, newborns, etc. It is unclear from these few verses whether God demolished the city because the citizens:

1. were uncharitable and abusive to strangers
   
2. wanted to rape people
   
3. engaged in homosexual acts

The Church has traditionally accepted the third explanation. In fact, the term sodomy which means anal intercourse is derived from the name of the city, Sodom. But the first explanation is clearly the correct one. As recorded in Matthew 10:14-15 and Luke 10:7-16, Jesus implied that the sin of the people of Sodom was to be inhospitable to strangers. In Ezekeiel 16:48-50, God states clearly that he destroyed Sodom's sins because of their pride, their excess of food while the poor and needy suffered, and worshiped many idols; sexual activity is not even mentioned.

The story of Sodom and Gomorrah actually condemns inhospitality and idolatry, not homosexuality. Read the Scriptural cross-references: Deuteronomy 29:23, Isaiah 1:9, Jeremiah 23:14, Lamentations 4:6, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Amos 4:11, Zephaniah 2:9, Matthew 10:15 / Luke 10:12, Luke 17:29, Romans 9:29, Jude v.7, Revelation 11:8
NOWHERE in the Scriptures does it say that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexual sex. Even if the specific point of the story was concerning a sexual matter, rather than hospitality, the issue is rape not homosexuality. Jesus claimed the issue was simply one of showing hospitality to strangers (Luke 10:12).

There you have it my friend!!!!!

To me, even if one is just studying the BIble because it is essential to understanding American, if not Western, cultural development, this kind of stuff is fascinating. Thanks for the post.

[Shady Grady]

Homosexual behavior is not that uncommon in animals. I think your analysis of the domestic causes of homosexuality is a bit primitive. I am not particularly discussing the causes of gayness: I am suggesting that the United States Constitution grant its consenting adults equal protection under the law. My personal opinions about homosexuality are not relevant here.

The thing is, as of now it is not part of the constitution, so those who are in favor are in the minority. As long as it is not a constitutional right, then tax money shouldn't be used to support it.

[Shady Grady]

the bible is interpeted by every person in a different way... so quoting the bible imo is all about how each individual or religion interputs it!
I have never in my life seen so many narrow minded people in one community as there are around this area. the bible also is interpeted by some to say that thall shall not judge and thall shall love one another... some people only want to quote certain things from the bible but at the same time, commit sin at the same time by being judgemental of other human beings. If gays bother you, then stay away from them and keep your opinion to yourself!!!

When the bible speaks against something, it is not being judgemental. It is simply stating a fact. But why stop at gays? Why don't we legalize prostitution, drug use, public intoxication, hey, whatever anybody wants to do.

[thecavemaster]

The thing is, as of now it is not part of the constitution, so those who are in favor are in the minority. As long as it is not a constitutional right, then tax money shouldn't be used to support it.

Isn't this the real issue we are debating? Whether or not gay marriage should be included in "equal protection under the law"? I keep waiting (and it may have already happened) for a gay couple married in Massachussetts to move to some other state and sue to have their marriage recognized as a matter of civil rights. I believe the Constitutional issue needs to be addressed. I believe it should be found to be under the umbrella of the equal protection clause.

[Shady Grady]

Isn't this the real issue we are debating? Whether or not gay marriage should be included in "equal protection under the law"? I keep waiting (and it may have already happened) for a gay couple married in Massachussetts to move to some other state and sue to have their marriage recognized as a matter of civil rights. I believe the Constitutional issue needs to be addressed. I believe it should be found to be under the umbrella of the equal protection clause.

There we have a very different view on this. I don't believe it should ever be a part of the constitution. The next step would be for people to do things like in the movie "Chuck and Larry". People who are friends and single getting "married" just to get benefits. Just another way to milk the system of more money. Personally, a drug addict who is too wasted to work is just as entitled to all the civil rights that you say gays are.

[If...Then]

Shady Grady AKA Dr. Phil

[thecavemaster]

There we have a very different view on this. I don't believe it should ever be a part of the constitution. The next step would be for people to do things like in the movie "Chuck and Larry". People who are friends and single getting "married" just to get benefits. Just another way to milk the system of more money. Personally, a drug addict who is too wasted to work is just as entitled to all the civil rights that you say gays are.

We disagree. Comparing two committed gay people to drug addicts? In fact, drug addicts are entitled to equal protection under the law.

[thecavemaster]

This is a question for those BGR political forum posters who have said some rather unflattering things about homosexuals: is your opinion based on the bible, or some sort of personal revulsion at homosexuality as an expression of sexuality? If based on the bible, do you share the same kind of revulsion at gossips? at warmongers? at backbiting? divisiveness?

[Shady Grady]

Shady Grady AKA Dr. Phil

I can state my opinion just like everyone else, Rosie O'Donnell