Mason County @ Russell

Russelldad · 10-22-2008, 12:17 PM

Beetle01 Wrote:This teams is in desperate need of a 4-4.

Put Storm, Dillon, Hutchinson and Miller up front and run wild, getting penetration.

Rice OLB, Smith ILB, Jones ILB, Fosson OLB

Bailey CB
Crodle CB
Rogers S

Bailey and Cordle go man on outside recievers, everyone else is zone coverage, with Max over top.

Even though I agree with you, that a new defensive scheme for this years players is needed, isn't 8 weeks into the year too late to get it implemented?

Or do you think, a vanilla version of the formation could be installed and used, just enough to throw the opposition a curve?

ryanparker · 10-22-2008, 12:33 PM

Jones and Foster were considered defensive linemen last year in Russell's 5-2 defense, weren't they? If their job was to merely stand up the offensive blockers, then how did they get so many tackles? Or is it just the interior 3 linemen who are supposed to stalemate their blockers?

Also, why do you guys think a 4-4 would be more suitable for this year's team?

Beetle01 · 10-22-2008, 12:42 PM

ryanparker Wrote:Jones and Foster were considered defensive linemen last year in Russell's 5-2 defense, weren't they? If their job was to merely stand up the offensive blockers, then how did they get so many tackles? Or is it just the interior 3 linemen who are supposed to stalemate their blockers?

Also, why do you guys think a 4-4 would be more suitable for this year's team?

Jones and Foster were Ends and don't play a traditional role. Their job as Russell plays it, is to stuff the guy on their inside, contain and pursue. Now Jones pretty much just played all out and made plays, and that's why he shined. He played more like a rogue type player, where he just reacted to the play and used his abilities to their fullest to shine on defense. Foster did it some too. This is when you really saw them make great plays.

I think a 4-4 suits this team better because it allows them to use thier speed instead of going size vs size which is where they lack. Don't handicap the players by taking away their talents. Also I think it will inspire more of a gang tackling fly to the ball mentality instead of this stand around and only make plays if the ball carrier comes your way.

a 5-2 is for bigger stronger more physical teams. When I played everyone of our front 7 guys were my size or much bigger and I was 245 lbs, we ran the 5-2 well. Most of your top defenses Russell has had have been very big and thus excelled in the 5-2. 02 was very big also. Not saying anyone is better than anyone, but some groups of players excel in different formats. How many games do you think Kentucky would win if they ran the wing-t? Probably none. So you gotta adapt to your players, their abilities, and your opponents strengths and weaknesses. I think it is pretty evident the 5-2 is not a strength for this D.

Changing things up might be tough, but I don't think as hard as you think. Defense is mainly about 2 things, aggressiveness and solid tackling. 4-4 style of play is very similar to 5-2, except one less db and let your db's go man, which I think would drastically improve our pass coverage if the corners go man with Max sitting over top playing center field. It also elminates Max being responsible for coming up and filling holes, which he has shown he may not be so ready to do yet. He is very good and I have been impressed with his play, and I think we need him to play some center field for us and use his quickness to get to the recievers when the ball is in the air and try and make plays.

Russelldad · 10-22-2008, 03:48 PM

I have always admired Coach Morris and the way he could scheme a defense. In Your opinion,beetle01 do you think he is against running anything but a 52?

I know that for the O'cath game he totally went away from the 52 and designed a defense for that game that worked perfectly.

Can't we do that from week to week depending on the teams we play? Or does he feel like if would be too confusing to switch up each week?

**FBALL** · 10-22-2008, 04:19 PM

I agree with most of what is being said. Jones and foster making plays from the DE positions to me is the most glaring difference from last year to this year.

I don't think you have to change defenses to be successful. But I do agree with Beetle that you have to turn the front line loose and let them penetrate. When I played at Russell we ran a 4-4 quite a bit. You can show a bunch of different looks out of it. More than a change in alignment I think the players and coaching staff need to get more agressive and attack.

ryanparker · 10-22-2008, 04:32 PM

FBALL Wrote:I agree with most of what is being said. Jones and foster making plays from the DE positions to me is the most glaring difference from last year to this year.

I don't think you have to change defenses to be successful. But I do agree with Beetle that you have to turn the front line loose and let them penetrate. When I played at Russell we ran a 4-4 quite a bit. You can show a bunch of different looks out of it. More than a change in alignment I think the players and coaching staff need to get more agressive and attack.

Could someone explain to me the benefits of having the defensive line not penetrate?

**jgrubby** · 10-22-2008, 04:51 PM

What I understand, in theory, it blocks the holes and make the back go to the outside. Which linebackers and defenseive ends can contain the lead blocker or the runner. Also, it wears down the big ole guys and penetration later in the game is easier. IMO FBALL has a better understanding that was his domain.

**Jeepman** · 10-22-2008, 04:57 PM

ryanparker Wrote:Could someone explain to me the benefits of having the defensive line not penetrate?

I picked Mason County to win this game. I hope I'm so very wrong. I second the question on penitration. Why?

**FBALL** · 10-22-2008, 06:19 PM

If you have your defensive line penetrate then it can open up lanes to run through leading to big plays. Alot of the times defensive lineman are taught to maintain gap contol. Stay at home and block up this area of the field. Defensive ends have outside contain. Let nothing outside, stay home and watch for reverses and counters. This is to cut down on the potential for big plays and clog those lanes so the LBs can have a free path to the ball carrier.

The other side is, if you pin your ears back and go then it can create alot of havoc in the backfield disrupting the offense of the other team. The down side is it does leave you a little more exposed to a big play. If a running back gets past that first level there is no help for the secondary. If it is a passing team you better get to the QB to make him rush his throws and make poor decisions. This is the approach most teams have taken to defending Russell.

One side is the concervative approach. The other is more aggressive.

Russell is usually pretty conservative on defense. That is why you see alot of zone coverage in the secondary and lineman are there to maintain that gap control up front.

On the other side Breathitt County plays a very agressive style of defense. Bring everyone up shoot the gaps and try to stop the play before it gets started. Its kind of a gamble but if you are not big and strong enough up front and speed is your biggest asset then your hand is forced. They took this gamble last year against Russell and it paid off. They gave up some big plays but the defensive front was very disruptive. They tried the same thing against Belfry last year and paid for it. Those quick hitters from Belfry got the running backs to the second level and that game just snowballed on them.

**jgrubby** · 10-22-2008, 07:54 PM

I believe this game will be 90% mental for the Red Devils. They can only defeat themselves. We need to do something loud and different for this game.

ryanparker · 10-22-2008, 08:32 PM

FBALL Wrote:If you have your defensive line penetrate then it can open up lanes to run through leading to big plays. Alot of the times defensive lineman are taught to maintain gap contol. Stay at home and block up this area of the field. Defensive ends have outside contain. Let nothing outside, stay home and watch for reverses and counters. This is to cut down on the potential for big plays and clog those lanes so the LBs can have a free path to the ball carrier.

The other side is, if you pin your ears back and go then it can create alot of havoc in the backfield disrupting the offense of the other team. The down side is it does leave you a little more exposed to a big play. If a running back gets past that first level there is no help for the secondary. If it is a passing team you better get to the QB to make him rush his throws and make poor decisions. This is the approach most teams have taken to defending Russell.

One side is the concervative approach. The other is more aggressive.

Russell is usually pretty conservative on defense. That is why you see alot of zone coverage in the secondary and lineman are there to maintain that gap control up front.

On the other side Breathitt County plays a very agressive style of defense. Bring everyone up shoot the gaps and try to stop the play before it gets started. Its kind of a gamble but if you are not big and strong enough up front and speed is your biggest asset then your hand is forced. They took this gamble last year against Russell and it paid off. They gave up some big plays but the defensive front was very disruptive. They tried the same thing against Belfry last year and paid for it. Those quick hitters from Belfry got the running backs to the second level and that game just snowballed on them.

Thanks for the quick course in defense 101!

So let me see if I have this straight...the consensus on the board seems to be that this year's Russell team would be better off taking the aggressive approach, right? And the reasoning behind this line of thinking is that this year's defensive line is not able to consistently win their battles and keep containment. Therefore, they are allowing blockers to get to the linebackers on most plays? Is this right? If this is the case, I can see the logic behind just sending everyone of them through the gaps in the hopes of avoiding making our line have to stand up to stronger offensive lines. Isn't the strength of our defense the linebackers and secondary anyway? This seems like it would put all the pressure on them to make the tackles should one of the defensive linemen not get to the play first.

However, has Russell ever strayed from a conservative defensive approach? Is there any reason to believe that they would do this? What kind of risks do you think the coaching staff is willing to take? Or will they just keep doing the same things and hope these players somehow get stronger, faster, and more aggressive in the final weeks of the season?

I really think fixing the defense should be the main focus right now. As I said in a previous post, the offensive production is pretty similar to last year. Shoring up the defense seems like it would generate the best returns.

Here's another thought. Would frequently blitzing some combination of the linebackers and/or safeties sort of accomplish the same thing? Abrams and Rogers both seem pretty fast and aggressive. Would this have a shot of working?

**FBALL** · 10-22-2008, 08:42 PM

ryanparker Wrote:Thanks for the quick course in defense 101!

So let me see if I have this straight...the consensus on the board seems to be that this year's Russell team would be better off taking the aggressive approach, right? And the reasoning behind this line of thinking is that this year's defensive line is not able to consistently win their battles and keep containment. Therefore, they are allowing blockers to get to the linebackers on most plays? Is this right? If this is the case, I can see the logic behind just sending everyone of them through the gaps in the hopes of avoiding making our line have to stand up to stronger offensive lines. Isn't the strength of our defense the linebackers and secondary anyway? This seems like it would put all the pressure on them to make the tackles should one of the defensive linemen not get to the play first.

However, has Russell ever strayed from a conservative defensive approach? Is there any reason to believe that they would do this? What kind of risks do you think the coaching staff is willing to take? Or will they just keep doing the same things and hope these players somehow get stronger, faster, and more aggressive in the final weeks of the season?

I really think fixing the defense should be the main focus right now. As I said in a previous post, the offensive production is pretty similar to last year. Shoring up the defense seems like it would generate the best returns.

Here's another thought. Would frequently blitzing some combination of the linebackers and/or safeties sort of accomplish the same thing? Abrams and Rogers both seem pretty fast and aggressive. Would this have a shot of working?

The best thing would be get Tyler Jones back and let him take away half of the field.

Since that is not an option I think you just mix it up. Russell has blitzed the linebackers some. The thing is not to be predictable. Mix up your blitzes. Turn the linemen lose, change up your coverages, play gap control. Just confuse the offense for the other team.

The linebackers have been decent but the secondary as a whole does not tackle very well. The defensive line is not weak and with the new kid, I believe just got much stronger.

The defesive ends are a big key in this defense. Sometimes they rush, sometimes drop into coverage. They are playmakers that can do alot of things if you have the right players playing there. We lost both starting defensive ends from last year and both were very good. So far this year we haven't seem the same production.

ryanparker · 10-22-2008, 08:52 PM

Well, since he's not coming back...I just hope the coaches can mix things up enough to at least make the rest of this season entertaining. Big Grin

Here are my hopes for the remainder of the season:

I want to see us beat Mason County so we don't have to make some ridiculous road trip in round 2 of the playoffs.

I don't want to see a repeat of the Ashland and Simon Kenton games in the Raceland game.

I want the team to look good enough over the next few weeks to at least feel like we have a shot in round 3 of the playoffs when we would likely have to go to Belfry.

Anything past that is icing on the cake.

I'll be there Friday (likely in the rain). JGrubby, I wish there was something that could be done to get the fans fired up, but if it rains I expect lower attendance and quieter stands. What do you propose can be done?

ryanparker · 10-22-2008, 08:53 PM

By the way, I couldn't make it to Simon Kenton. Is the new guy really that good? A difference maker?

**jgrubby** · 10-22-2008, 09:11 PM

ryanparker Wrote:Well, since he's not coming back...I just hope the coaches can mix things up enough to at least make the rest of this season entertaining.

Here are my hopes for the remainder of the season:

I want to see us beat Mason County so we don't have to make some ridiculous road trip in round 2 of the playoffs.

I don't want to see a repeat of the Ashland and Simon Kenton games in the Raceland game.

I want the team to look good enough over the next few weeks to at least feel like we have a shot in round 3 of the playoffs when we would likely have to go to Belfry.

Anything past that is icing on the cake.

I'll be there Friday (likely in the rain). JGrubby, I wish there was something that could be done to get the fans fired up, but if it rains I expect lower attendance and quieter stands. What do you propose can be done?

I know in games past the sound systems that we had kinda gave the stadium some magic. We rely on the PA and it really doesn't give that kinda atmosphere. Im talking about concert quality sound . Next we need a real chant from the crowd. The ole "R-u-s-s-e-l-l go fight win" is really not doing it anymore. The cheerleaders have really gotten away from the crowd and its more tumble world than crowd involvement. The best we had in a while was "ICE CREAM AND CAKE"! (GO DEVILOLOGIST!!!) Horns and bells, clackers etc.. help but the crowd rarely gets on thier feet and roars. They really respond to that. this is a perticipating sport. Home crowds should control the game. When the Boo's come around its the most livily some of us get.
:flame: :Wave:
We need something to fire them up (crowd). Pregame also needs something. Heck, even the wave would be cool. LOL.

**jgrubby** · 10-22-2008, 09:18 PM

Fireworks are cool but expensive. Need the ole pro-bono (free) type of entertainment. Could we get Larry Lemaster to Skydive again? Need a better type of flame out of the scoreboard.

**Midee1** · 10-22-2008, 09:26 PM

jgrubby Wrote:Fireworks are cool but expensive. Need the ole pro-bono (free) type of entertainment. Could we get Larry Lemaster to Skydive again? Need a better type of flame out of the scoreboard.

Let me handle that......:o Smile

**FBALL** · 10-22-2008, 09:40 PM

Midee1 Wrote:Let me handle that......:o

Yeah, I know you got that covered.

I thought we had quite an upgrade until I found out that explosion was a mistake.

Bird Hater.

**Midee1** · 10-22-2008, 09:42 PM

FBALL Wrote:Yeah, I know you got that covered.

I thought we had quite an upgrade until I found out that explosion was a mistake.

Bird Hater.

Why did I know you would be the first to comment? :p

**FBALL** · 10-22-2008, 09:47 PM

Here is my hopes for the rest of the season.

The Russell fans are spoiled. Instead of complaining here is a positive post that you would see from almost every other school in the state if they had our record.

Russell is 6-2 and a contender in 3A. The only losses came to a very good 5A team in a rivalry game. The other loss was to a good 6A that is battle tested and plays against a very good team every week in Northern KY.

Drew Abrams needs only 51 yards to go over 1000 yards for the season.

Russell is undefeated in district play and plays for the district championship this Friday.

I think this should give any group of fans something to cheer for.

**FBALL** · 10-22-2008, 09:48 PM

Midee1 Wrote:Why did I know you would be the first to comment? :p

You must have the ESPN.

kybaseball · 10-22-2008, 10:40 PM

Bird hater? I have a feeling what is meant by that but FBALL please tell us.

**jgrubby** · 10-22-2008, 10:43 PM

Yeah, please FBALL!!!

**FBALL** · 10-22-2008, 10:45 PM

kybaseball Wrote:Bird hater? I have a feeling what is meant by that but FBALL please tell us.

I'll have to let Midee1 tell you.

**Midee1** · 10-22-2008, 11:21 PM

kybaseball Wrote:Bird hater? I have a feeling what is meant by that but FBALL please tell us.

No comment....

jgrubby Wrote:Yeah, please FBALL!!!

You shut up. You forget I know where you live and who your wife and kids are.

FBALL Wrote:I'll have to let Midee1 tell you.

I also know where you live and who your wife and kids are too.

Everyone stay quiet and everyone stays safe.... Smile

**The College One** · 10-22-2008, 11:25 PM

midee1 laying the smackdown on this one lol hope to see the red devils pull one out good luck guys play with your heart and leave everything out there on the field dont hold nothin back. play as one.

**FBALL** · 10-22-2008, 11:36 PM

Well since Midee is going to be uncooperative.

It all has to do with the flaming scoreboard and a poor little birdie that built its nest in the wrong place. First game of the year and I guess noone thought that the line may be blocked. Lets just say when you plug up a propane line it results in quite the nice fireball once the blockage has been cleared.

Midee is no Colonel Sanders. But he does get them extra crispy.

**The College One** · 10-22-2008, 11:41 PM

FBALL Wrote:Well since Midee is going to be uncooperative.

It all has to do with the flaming scoreboard and a poor little birdie that built its nest in the wrong place. First game of the year and I guess noone thought that the line may be blocked. Lets just say when you plug up a propane line it results in quite the nice fireball once the blockage has been cleared.

Midee is no Colonel Sanders. But he does get them extra crispy.

lol

kybaseball · 10-23-2008, 12:08 AM

:flame:

FBALL Wrote:Well since Midee is going to be uncooperative.

It all has to do with the flaming scoreboard and a poor little birdie that built its nest in the wrong place. First game of the year and I guess noone thought that the line may be blocked. Lets just say when you plug up a propane line it results in quite the nice fireball once the blockage has been cleared.

Midee is no Colonel Sanders. But he does get them extra crispy.

I figured it was along those lines. Smile

Did anyone call PETA? Smile

sorry Midee 1

Please tell me it wasn't him that set the scoreboard on fire a few years back.:flame:

**DevilsWin** · 10-23-2008, 12:22 AM

kybaseball Wrote::flame:

I figured it was along those lines. Did anyone call PETA? sorry Midee 1

Please tell me it wasn't him that set the scoreboard on fire a few years back.:flame:

OK We won't tell you. Confused

hh: