[DevilsWin]

:Angry07:

:Thumbs:

[Old School]

This back and fourth bickering gets us no where.

Yes I want to stop MTR, the negatives of it far outweigh the positives. We all know the irreversible damage it is causing, but some want to overlook that because it gives them a job. You also keep giving the same bs crap that we cant make it without coal, but thats not the truth, it's only what you choose to believe becuase it benefits you. If you weren't affiliated with the coal industry, maybe your views would be different.

This has also gotten off topic as You have still never directly answered my question.

Then you want to put 75,000 people out of work period!

You keep saying other businesses will come in and take the place of coal, all I'm asking is Where and what they are? Why aren't they here now. I never said we couldn't make it without coal, I did say that coal is all we have today, and the anti coal groups want to do away with it without bringing other industry to replace it. I've said on several occasions that I would love to see other industry move into the area, but most factories are going to other countries. The American Standard plant I mentioned before has been moving it's jobs to Mexico for several years and will finially close it's doors next month.

As for answering your question you may want to check posts #17 and #19.

Now it's your turn, Why don't you answer my questions, I've ask several.

[Old School]

The same can be said about supporting a mining practice that destroys:

1) The water I drink for nourishment.
2) The water in which I bath.
3) The water I use to wash my clothes, car and other property.
4) The water that is supposed to nourish my crops with minerals so I have the ability to feed myself.


Now how are we gonna change that?

Because the car pollution thing is a very simple fix. In fact there is already a market for these "Green" products.

MTR is a whole different problem that needs attention.

You may want to go back to coaches impaired stream list and check out all the streams that are on the impaired list that are not located in coal producing counties. How do you explain that? Let's face it you and I are doing far more damage to these streams with than surface mining ever will.

[Benchwarmer]

The same can be said about supporting a mining practice that destroys:

1) The water I drink for nourishment.
2) The water in which I bath.
3) The water I use to wash my clothes, car and other property.
4) The water that is supposed to nourish my crops with minerals so I have the ability to feed myself.


Now how are we gonna change that?

Because the car pollution thing is a very simple fix. In fact there is already a market for these "Green" products.

MTR is a whole different problem that needs attention.

I hear and understand what you are saying. But, why just MTR. MTR is not the only thing destroying our everyday life. We are destroying the rain forest, oceans are polluted, rivers and lakes across the U.S. have certain levels of pollution. Who is doing this? Humans. Pointing to MTR as the source of most of our pollutions is not right. We have been mass producing cars for decades and it will continue. We have been cutting down forest for centuries and it will continue. We have placed large factories next to rivers and lakes for decades. They have polluted and it will continue. In the Mid-West they spray their crops with pesticides and these pesticides get into their drinking water. We center MTR as a Kentucky Regional problem but it goes beyond Kentucky. MTR can be located all over Appalachia as well the mid-west and western states. Have you ever seen the MTR process that ore companies go after. You talk about complete destruction. One last thing. You talk about water contamination. Go creek fishing and notice the sewer pipes that are run straight into our creeks and we laws against that and nothing is done.

[Benchwarmer]

You may want to go back to coaches impaired stream list and check out all the streams that are on the impaired list that are not located in coal producing counties. How do you explain that? Let's face it you and I are doing far more damage to these streams with than surface mining ever will.

Talk about coal producing counties. I love how McCain was in Florida and Obama in Lexington discussing MTR. Sound like that they should have been discussing how Urban sprawl is destroying the environment in Florida (everglads)and Lexington (farms) and something should be done to stop it.

[Old School]

I hear and understand what you are saying. But, why just MTR. MTR is not the only thing destroying our everyday life. We are destroying the rain forest, oceans are polluted, rivers and lakes across the U.S. have certain levels of pollution. Who is doing this? Humans. Pointing to MTR as the source of most of our pollutions is not right. We have been mass producing cars for decades and it will continue. We have been cutting down forest for centuries and it will continue. We have placed large factories next to rivers and lakes for decades. They have polluted and it will continue. In the Mid-West they spray their crops with pesticides and these pesticides get into their drinking water. We center MTR as a Kentucky Regional problem but it goes beyond Kentucky. MTR can be located all over Appalachia as well the mid-west and western states. Have you ever seen the MTR process that ore companies go after. You talk about complete destruction. One last thing. You talk about water contamination. Go creek fishing and notice the sewer pipes that are run straight into our creeks and we laws against that and nothing is done.

Preach on brother :thumpsup:I've been saying this for the past year, but to some I'm just an old dumb coal miner, that's been brainwashed by BIG COAL .

[Benchwarmer]

Preach on brother :thumpsup:I've been saying this for the past year, but to some I'm just an old dumb coal miner, that's been brainwashed by BIG COAL .

No, your a coal miner that probably had a good life for himself and his family due to coal companies.

[DevilsWin]

I hear and understand what you are saying. But, why just MTR. MTR is not the only thing destroying our everyday life. We are destroying the rain forest, oceans are polluted, rivers and lakes across the U.S. have certain levels of pollution. Who is doing this? Humans. Pointing to MTR as the source of most of our pollutions is not right. We have been mass producing cars for decades and it will continue. We have been cutting down forest for centuries and it will continue. We have placed large factories next to rivers and lakes for decades. They have polluted and it will continue. In the Mid-West they spray their crops with pesticides and these pesticides get into their drinking water. We center MTR as a Kentucky Regional problem but it goes beyond Kentucky. MTR can be located all over Appalachia as well the mid-west and western states. Have you ever seen the MTR process that ore companies go after. You talk about complete destruction. One last thing. You talk about water contamination. Go creek fishing and notice the sewer pipes that are run straight into our creeks and we laws against that and nothing is done.

It has to start somewhere, so why not in our backyards?

All of these problems are equally important.

Think Globally, Act Locally!

[DevilsWin]

You may want to go back to coaches impaired stream list and check out all the streams that are on the impaired list that are not located in coal producing counties. How do you explain that? Let's face it you and I are doing far more damage to these streams with than surface mining ever will.

Changing the subject doesn't always win the argument.

I've seen you use this technique before in trying to divert the subject and muddy the waters.

That's a different subject/thread.

We can't solve all the pollution problems in one thread.

If you see sewer pipes running into the creek in your neighborhood don't just sit there, DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Coach_Owens87]

[/B]


McCain, is known for his environmental views, so this doesn't surprise me at all, even though McCain was not my first or second choice for President I will vote for him in November.

BTW did anyone hear Biden say that there would be no new coal fired plants in the U.S. if he and Obama were elected, Biden said we could mine coal and ship it to other countries so they could use for electricity but not here in the good ole U.S.

So where in a battle of who loves coal more now? Biden said something simiair to Grist (environmental site) last year. Said that he didnt believe clean coal was a part of energy independence, and with the current clean coal plan, I agree. IMO clean coal wont work. Obama was quick to respond and say that he is a friend of the coal industry, so im sure you dont have to worry.

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/9/23/16569/6443

[Coach_Owens87]

Then you want to put 75,000 people out of work period!

You keep saying other businesses will come in and take the place of coal, all I'm asking is Where and what they are? Why aren't they here now. I never said we couldn't make it without coal, I did say that coal is all we have today, and the anti coal groups want to do away with it without bringing other industry to replace it. I've said on several occasions that I would love to see other industry move into the area, but most factories are going to other countries. The American Standard plant I mentioned before has been moving it's jobs to Mexico for several years and will finially close it's doors next month.

As for answering your question you may want to check posts #17 and #19.

Now it's your turn, Why don't you answer my questions, I've ask several.

Saying that "anti-coal" groups dont wont other jobs in here is a lie, and a scare tatic. They dont work, I dont want to put anyone out of a job, but I also dont want to have contaminated water, bad roads, and no future economy for my kids.

I have already described why jobs aren't here, and you agreed with me, did you forget that, or does it just not fit into your agenda. I cant say for sure that anything I mentioned will succeed, but their worth a try, you cant move forward with taking new steps. We have kids with college educations that could become the future workforce here, but they cant because the jobs they want arent here.

Factories are leaving to other countries, but some of that has to do with failed policies by the man you voted for twice.

[Beetle01]

With the free trade we set up, there are no new jobs to come in and fill in those coal jobs. I along with everyone else would like to see a day when there doesn't have to be any mining, especially MTR. However, I'm in no way in favor of something that will ruin the lives of so many. Obama plans on building more and more coal plants. McCain is for free trade, so jobs won't be coming back.

Now if we can do away with free trade and put in nuclear, not coal we could bring those jobs back, and then have them locate those jobs in areas that would be hit hard by the coal industry being cut way back with tax incentives for the compaines to locate the jobs there.

[Old School]

Changing the subject doesn't always win the argument.

I've seen you use this technique before in trying to divert the subject and muddy the waters.

That's a different subject/thread.

We can't solve all the pollution problems in one thread.

If you see sewer pipes running into the creek in your neighborhood don't just sit there, DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hold on there hoss...you may want to check post #30 before you accuse someone of changing the subject. Your the one that started talking about water not me.

[Old School]

Then you want to put 33,000 people out of work period!

You keep saying other businesses will come in and take the place of coal, all I'm asking is Where and what they are? Why aren't they here now. I never said we couldn't make it without coal, I did say that coal is all we have today, and the anti coal groups want to do away with it without bringing other industry to replace it first. I've said on several occasions that I would love to see other industry move into the area, but most factories are going to other countries. The American Standard plant I mentioned before has been moving it's jobs to Mexico for several years and will finially close it's doors next month.

As for answering your question you may want to check posts #17 and #19.

Now it's your turn, Why don't you answer my questions, I've ask several.

I do need to make a couple of corrections, sorry.

(1) it should have read 33,000 instead of 75,000.

(2) I intended to say "the anti-coal groups want to do away with it without bringing other industry to replace it first"

[Old School]

Saying that "anti-coal" groups dont wont other jobs in here is a lie, and a scare tatic. They dont work, I dont want to put anyone out of a job, but I also dont want to have contaminated water, bad roads, and no future economy for my kids.

I have already described why jobs aren't here, and you agreed with me, did you forget that, or does it just not fit into your agenda. I cant say for sure that anything I mentioned will succeed, but their worth a try, you cant move forward with taking new steps. We have kids with college educations that could become the future workforce here, but they cant because the jobs they want arent here.

Factories are leaving to other countries, but some of that has to do with failed policies by the man you voted for twice.

1) Factories are leaving because of NAFTA, and was inacted during the Clinton adminstration with a democratic congress, just ask the people of Michigian, Ohio and Indiana, Hillary and Obama argued over this during the primaries.

2) FYI I never voted for Clinton once let alone twice.

[thecavemaster]

[/b]


1) Factories are leaving because of NAFTA, and was inacted during the Clinton adminstration with a democratic congress, just ask the people of Michigian, Ohio and Indiana, Hillary and Obama argued over this during the primaries.

2) FYI I never voted for Clinton once let alone twice.

NAFTA had broad, bi-partisan support. I voted for Bill Clinton twice, and could he run again, I would vote for him a third time. I have heard many, many people, across the spectrum say, "Under Clinton I had it better than I'd ever had it before." "It's the economy, Stupid."

[Benchwarmer]

With big coal you have electricity. With electricity you have bluegrassrivals.

[thecavemaster]

With big coal you have electricity. With electricity you have bluegrassrivals.

Of course, had we as a nation applied ourselves to the task over the last twenty-five years, BGR could exist via solar, wind, and any number of other technologies...

[Benchwarmer]

Of course, had we as a nation applied ourselves to the task over the last twenty-five years, BGR could exist via solar, wind, and any number of other technologies...

But it didn't happen.

[thecavemaster]

But it didn't happen.

Sadly enough, you're right...