[letthebighogroot]

BTW we announce all the time what carrier groups are going where.

We did then, and we do now.
Telling them that informed them of nothing they didn't already know.

Well of course..............:lmao: Lord knows we were already telling North Vietnam what we were planning to do..... Everyone knows that's how wars are fought.............Tell them ahead of time where you are going..........That way they can be there waiting on you. I can't believe that everyone on here didn't already know that we told Germany and Japan when and where we were headed on D-Day!

[letthebighogroot]

They don't have the right answers cause its all true.

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why, oh why did the big "WAR HERO" push a bill to seal all POW records??????????? I mean he stands tall and proud on them. Yet he doesn't want anyone knowing??????????????????:confused:

[letthebighogroot]

What do you mean by that?

Thanks for asking......Instead of typing them I will direct you to http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com. There they have them listed and what he violated in RED. You can also search, "military code of conduct" to back up the actual code if you like.

[thecavemaster]

Then you should easily be able to provide a credible link containing it.

Or are you like cavemaster who just goes around saying w/e whether it has any factual basis or not?

Look it up in the Congressional Quarterly. I said it once...I'll say it again: I'm not doing your homework for you. "Provide a link"... "provide a link" basic note: information gleaned from the internet counts least on the validity/reliability chain... go to a .gov site at least.

[More Cowbell]

Like I've said before, strictly partisan politics will not get anything done.

it has to be done together. Not just a one sided Republican or Democrat effort.

I'm not taking a side in this thread's "hero or not" debate, but I had to respond here. Beetle is exactly right with these two statements.

Partisan politics is one of our country's biggest problems. Our lawmakers and excutive officeholders too often go right in lock-step with each of their party's platforms. You'll have a vote on an issue, and nearly everyone from one party votes one way, and most of the other side votes the other way. Lawmakers are too afraid to "cross the aisle", so to speak, for fear of alienating their party leadership.

This can be very dangerous when one party has total control over the Presidency as well as both houses of Congress. No party, be it Dem or GOP, should ever have free reign to push their entire agenda onto the American public. We will always be better off if the two parties are required to work together and compromise in order to get legislation passed.

Yes, I know this bogs things down and keeps laws from being passed sooner. And then people complain that "our government won't do anything". But I would rather see our government do nothing than to have either party enjoy unchecked power to do as they please. I hope that whatever the election results this November, that the party that loses the presidency at least keeps control of one house of Congress.

[DevilsWin]

I'm not taking a side in this thread's "hero or not" debate, but I had to respond here. Beetle is exactly right with these two statements.

Partisan politics is one of our country's biggest problems. Our lawmakers and excutive officeholders too often go right in lock-step with each of their party's platforms. You'll have a vote on an issue, and nearly everyone from one party votes one way, and most of the other side votes the other way. Lawmakers are too afraid to "cross the aisle", so to speak, for fear of alienating their party leadership.

This can be very dangerous when one party has total control over the Presidency as well as both houses of Congress. No party, be it Dem or GOP, should ever have free reign to push their entire agenda onto the American public. We will always be better off if the two parties are required to work together and compromise in order to get legislation passed.

Yes, I know this bogs things down and keeps laws from being passed sooner. And then people complain that "our government won't do anything". But I would rather see our government do nothing than to have either party enjoy unchecked power to do as they please. I hope that whatever the election results this November, that the party that loses the presidency at least keeps control of one house of Congress.

:Thumbs:

[thecavemaster]

I'm not taking a side in this thread's "hero or not" debate, but I had to respond here. Beetle is exactly right with these two statements.

Partisan politics is one of our country's biggest problems. Our lawmakers and excutive officeholders too often go right in lock-step with each of their party's platforms. You'll have a vote on an issue, and nearly everyone from one party votes one way, and most of the other side votes the other way. Lawmakers are too afraid to "cross the aisle", so to speak, for fear of alienating their party leadership.

This can be very dangerous when one party has total control over the Presidency as well as both houses of Congress. No party, be it Dem or GOP, should ever have free reign to push their entire agenda onto the American public. We will always be better off if the two parties are required to work together and compromise in order to get legislation passed.

Yes, I know this bogs things down and keeps laws from being passed sooner. And then people complain that "our government won't do anything". But I would rather see our government do nothing than to have either party enjoy unchecked power to do as they please. I hope that whatever the election results this November, that the party that loses the presidency at least keeps control of one house of Congress.

We have a two party system as a checks and balances kind of thing. Partisan politics is an overused mantra. The parties have differences, big ones. Sometimes, they compromise. A lot of the time they don't. Health care? Big differences. Keeping social security solvent? Big differences. Right to choose for a woman? Big differences. Constitutional amendment to ban flag burning? Big differences. And on and on it goes.

[Old School]

Before the U.S. ever gets back to where it once was, poilitician are going to have change their way of thinking, like someone said there's to many that just vote along party lines, this has to stop. I realize that we have to have at least two parties, but these men and women need to start doing what's right, getting behind ways to improve this country regardless of who came up with the idea.

[Beetle01]

And Mccain is the one guy who doesn't care about party lines. Can't say the same about Obama.

[thecavemaster]

And Mccain is the one guy who doesn't care about party lines. Can't say the same about Obama.

McCain may as well put on a slinky red dress, purposeful make-up and stand outside a Shriner's convention for the way he sold himself to get the nomination... your "tell the truth/but tell it at a slant" analysis notwithstanding.

[More Cowbell]

:Thumbs:

We have a two party system as a checks and balances kind of thing. Partisan politics is an overused mantra. The parties have differences, big ones. Sometimes, they compromise. A lot of the time they don't. Health care? Big differences. Keeping social security solvent? Big differences. Right to choose for a woman? Big differences. Constitutional amendment to ban flag burning? Big differences. And on and on it goes.

Thanks for the thumbs, DW.

And as for the two party system as "checks and balances", how is there any kind of balance when one party has total control? If one party can steamroll their entire agenda without even having to work with the other side, then there is no balance. And that is very dangerous in my opinion.

How is partisan politics an overused mantra? If lawmakers vote by what their national party leadership has decided upon, rather than what they feel is truly right, then that is partisan politics. I think too often lawmakers feel the need to do this to please the party bosses, lest they be looked upon as a party outsider. Then they get passed over for positions on important committees, and as a result their home districts get left out when money is appropriated for projects and such. In a sense it's hard to blame them, considering how the current system is set up.

[thecavemaster]

Thanks for the thumbs, DW.

And as for the two party system as "checks and balances", how is there any kind of balance when one party has total control? If one party can steamroll their entire agenda without even having to work with the other side, then there is no balance. And that is very dangerous in my opinion.

How is partisan politics an overused mantra? If lawmakers vote by what their national party leadership has decided upon, rather than what they feel is truly right, then that is partisan politics. I think too often lawmakers feel the need to do this to please the party bosses, lest they be looked upon as a party outsider. Then they get passed over for positions on important committees, and as a result their home districts get left out when money is appropriated for projects and such. In a sense it's hard to blame them, considering how the current system is set up.

Unless one party has a filibuster proof majority (60-40) in the Senate, checks and balances exist. And, if one party does achieve a 60/40, and take the White House, the mood of the counrtry would suggest approval of that party's agenda. I agree with your comments about politics as usual (favoritism, butt kissing and the like).

[DevilsWin]

The problem with this Congress is most of them are lock step with their respective parties.

Couple that with a congress in which there isn't a 60/40 majority and nothing will get done thanks to the filibuster crowd.

America is more divided now IMO than any other time in recent history and it needs to stop now!

Democrats and Republicans alike are getting it wrong on many issues and it takes more than a carboard sign to bring about the kind of change America needs.

[More Cowbell]

Unless one party has a filibuster proof majority (60-40) in the Senate, checks and balances exist. And, if one party does achieve a 60/40, and take the White House, the mood of the counrtry would suggest approval of that party's agenda. I agree with your comments about politics as usual (favoritism, butt kissing and the like).

I agree that any party that achieves a 60/40 majority, as well as winning the Presidency, does have what the media likes to call a mandate. However, I wouldn't say that it reflects the mood of the entire country. It may not even reflect the mood of a majority of American citizens, just that of a majority of voters.

The problem is that if it did happen, that party's leadership would say exactly the same thing, that they have a mandate from the American public to enact all their party's positions into law. Those that disagree with said positions would just have to sit there and watch helplessly until the next elections come up. Absolute power is not good, regardless of which party possesses it.

[More Cowbell]

The problem with this Congress is most of them are lock step with their respective parties.

Couple that with a congress in which there isn't a 60/40 majority and nothing will get done thanks to the filibuster crowd.

America is more divided now IMO than any other time in recent history and it needs to stop now!

Democrats and Republicans alike are getting it wrong on many issues and it takes more than a carboard sign to bring about the kind of change America needs.

I agree completely with these comments, DW. I had no idea we were in this much agreement on this issue!

[thecavemaster]

Just did a compilation of several polls, with political dashboard... McCain leads by 1 to 2% in popular, while electoral are dead even at 250. Were McCain to win Virginia and Colorado, with Obama taking Deleware and Maryland (no polls available...but Obama figured to be leading), that leaves McCain and Obama with 268 each (270) to win. Can't get much closer.

[DevilsWin]

I agree completely with these comments, DW. I had no idea we were in this much agreement on this issue!

I've always said(maybe not on this board) that I have more in common with conservatives than they might think.

I am from Kentucky you know!

Some people may think I'm a Lock Step Democrat because of my support for Obama but I truely think he is our best chance for change. The problem with that is that no candidate will get elected without pandering to the extreme right and left agendas of their parties during the election.

That leads people to believe the candidates support some pretty extreme views that they really don't support.

[More Cowbell]

The problem with that is that no candidate will get elected without pandering to the extreme right and left agendas of their parties during the election.

That leads people to believe the candidates support some pretty extreme views that they really don't support.

I agree completely about the pandering. It's a shame, but I guess that each candidate feels that they can't win unless they lock up their party's base, which includes some pretty extreme views for both sides. This is the reason that right now, you could go to a national map and color in most of the Red and Blue states two months before the election, and be mostly correct. It's also the reason that it seems every national election comes down to a few "swing" states every time.

Maybe someday a true moderate will be able to run and win...

[BasketBallonlyfan]

I agree completely about the pandering. It's a shame, but I guess that each candidate feels that they can't win unless they lock up their party's base, which includes some pretty extreme views for both sides. This is the reason that right now, you could go to a national map and color in most of the Red and Blue states two months before the election, and be mostly correct. It's also the reason that it seems every national election comes down to a few "swing" states every time.

Maybe someday a true moderate will be able to run and win...

I have seen this link on here numerous times "http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/". So I went to it and did just a little look at it. A few things I find very interesting about it. First of all, the biggest topic on it is send $16.95 for a book. The second part I think is a little odd is that the web page was published using microsoft front page editor 5.0. Coudnt they get a professional to fix that page for them? Why have the email of "stealthactivist@gmail.com? Why not use the email address that has their ISP in it? Why a free email account? The page does have a phone number listed. It is under the name of a newspaper. "U S Veteran Dispatch News". I called the number at 3:50 today to see if it actually existed. I got a answering machine. For the address for the newspaper, it was listed as:
302 N Herritage St
Kinston, NC 28501

After noticing that Herritage St. was misspelled, I did a google search of that address. After scrolling down, I seen the same address under Kingston NC Gift Shops and Giftwares.

I am not a professional information getting, but I think that is all kind of strange for a amature looking for less than 10 minutes at a page. I kinda have to wonder what all else on that page is the truth. But I will say this about the code of conduct. It states ".I will evade answering further quesitons to the utmost of my ability..." That doesnt mean that you can not say anything to the captors, but that you are supposed to try to keep from giving information to your captors. Did he tell them anything? I am sorry, I wont belive what the webpage told me I should believe.

I am not for or against McCain. I am still a unsure voter come election day. So I dont really have a dog in the fight either way. I just think that that page shouldnt be used to judge a person.

[DevilsWin]

I have seen this link on here numerous times "http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/". So I went to it and did just a little look at it. A few things I find very interesting about it. First of all, the biggest topic on it is send $16.95 for a book. The second part I think is a little odd is that the web page was published using microsoft front page editor 5.0. Coudnt they get a professional to fix that page for them? Why have the email of "stealthactivist@gmail.com? Why not use the email address that has their ISP in it? Why a free email account? The page does have a phone number listed. It is under the name of a newspaper. "U S Veteran Dispatch News". I called the number at 3:50 today to see if it actually existed. I got a answering machine. For the address for the newspaper, it was listed as:
302 N Herritage St
Kinston, NC 28501

After noticing that Herritage St. was misspelled, I did a google search of that address. After scrolling down, I seen the same address under Kingston NC Gift Shops and Giftwares.

I am not a professional information getting, but I think that is all kind of strange for a amature looking for less than 10 minutes at a page. I kinda have to wonder what all else on that page is the truth. But I will say this about the code of conduct. It states ".I will evade answering further quesitons to the utmost of my ability..." That doesnt mean that you can not say anything to the captors, but that you are supposed to try to keep from giving information to your captors. Did he tell them anything? I am sorry, I wont belive what the webpage told me I should believe.

I am not for or against McCain. I am still a unsure voter come election day. So I dont really have a dog in the fight either way. I just think that that page shouldnt be used to judge a person.

Thanks for doing the research on that page. I'd be willing to bet that isn't the only source of this information. Additionally, I have noticed that a lot of the Anti McCain pages that were out there a few months ago are disappearing.

Did the webmasters all of a sudden have a change of heart? I don't think so. Kinda makes me wonder about just how much power John McCain is already weilding.

[letthebighogroot]

I have seen this link on here numerous times "http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/". So I went to it and did just a little look at it. A few things I find very interesting about it. First of all, the biggest topic on it is send $16.95 for a book. The second part I think is a little odd is that the web page was published using microsoft front page editor 5.0. Coudnt they get a professional to fix that page for them? Why have the email of "stealthactivist@gmail.com? Why not use the email address that has their ISP in it? Why a free email account? The page does have a phone number listed. It is under the name of a newspaper. "U S Veteran Dispatch News". I called the number at 3:50 today to see if it actually existed. I got a answering machine. For the address for the newspaper, it was listed as:
302 N Herritage St
Kinston, NC 28501

After noticing that Herritage St. was misspelled, I did a google search of that address. After scrolling down, I seen the same address under Kingston NC Gift Shops and Giftwares.

I am not a professional information getting, but I think that is all kind of strange for a amature looking for less than 10 minutes at a page. I kinda have to wonder what all else on that page is the truth. But I will say this about the code of conduct. It states ".I will evade answering further quesitons to the utmost of my ability..." That doesnt mean that you can not say anything to the captors, but that you are supposed to try to keep from giving information to your captors. Did he tell them anything? I am sorry, I wont belive what the webpage told me I should believe.

I am not for or against McCain. I am still a unsure voter come election day. So I dont really have a dog in the fight either way. I just think that that page shouldnt be used to judge a person.

I think maybe you missed the point. It's the information that the website has that is pertinent to Mr. Mccain. If detective work is your thing......Why not see if you find something debunking the information you find on this website instead of attacking the person who went to the trouble to get the truth out there.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

I think maybe you missed the point. It's the information that the website has that is pertinent to Mr. Mccain. If detective work is your thing......Why not see if you find something debunking the information you find on this website instead of attacking the person who went to the trouble to get the truth out there.

I didnt do anything to attack the person who put the truth out there, I just stated my questions about the page itself. But go ahead, belive what you want about what is on there. I mean, everyone knows everything you read on the internet is true. I am not taking up for McCain in any way shape or form, just the same as I am not taking up for Obama. I just stated what I seen from that one page.

[letthebighogroot]

I didnt do anything to attack the person who put the truth out there, I just stated my questions about the page itself. But go ahead, belive what you want about what is on there. I mean, everyone knows everything you read on the internet is true. I am not taking up for McCain in any way shape or form, just the same as I am not taking up for Obama. I just stated what I seen from that one page.

I don't believe everything I read on the internet, I don't believe everything I hear on tv or radio, And I don't believe anything I hear and only half of what I see. What I do believe however, is when I read documented things about a person, place, etc... And then look for credible evidence debunking, or facts that disregard what I read, and can't find any..................................I guess what I am saying is, I don't care who's website it is, or which candidate they are for/against. If they post facts that nobody disputes, then don't worry about how professional they are........worry about the facts.

[BasketBallonlyfan]

I don't believe everything I read on the internet, I don't believe everything I hear on tv or radio, And I don't believe anything I hear and only half of what I see. What I do believe however, is when I read documented things about a person, place, etc... And then look for credible evidence debunking, or facts that disregard what I read, and can't find any..................................I guess what I am saying is, I don't care who's website it is, or which candidate they are for/against. If they post facts that nobody disputes, then don't worry about how professional they are........worry about the facts.

Well, that page was brought up in this thread numerous times. That is why I used it. If that page is the basis of the documented evidence, then why bother looking for facts to oppose it? If the documented facts are from a un reliable source then is it really documented facts? I have three uncles that was in Vietnam. One of which was a POW. Who are they going to vote for? I dont have a clue and I wont ask. Wouldnt it be a hoot though if he voted for McCain?

[letthebighogroot]

Well, that page was brought up in this thread numerous times. That is why I used it. If that page is the basis of the documented evidence, then why bother looking for facts to oppose it? If the documented facts are from a un reliable source then is it really documented facts? I have three uncles that was in Vietnam. One of which was a POW. Who are they going to vote for? I dont have a clue and I wont ask. Wouldnt it be a hoot though if he voted for McCain?

I'll tell ya what. If the one that was a POW was kept at the Hanoi Hilton, and his service there and Mccains overlapped.....You are darned right I would ask him who he was voting for, I would also ask him how many times he seen Mccain........... Also, and don't take this wrong please.... But I would either ask him or ask myself if a former POW was fit to run this country. Most diffentetly one who's "supposed" last 2 years as a POW are un-accounted for. I would also ask him if he and the rest of the POW's violated the military code of conduct like Mccain did.......But I'm more straight laced and to the point than most ppl.