[ronald_reagan]

There was no plane, and there were no people on a plane, they are all in witness protection and will be for the rest of their lives.

I thought you were being serious up till just now.... I must have missed this earlier or else I'd never responded to you. Thanks for the joke!

[RammsteinFan92]

Then where's the plane? Where are all those people who were on that plane that "supposedly" did and didn't hit the Pentagon?

so are you saying you believe it was a conspiracy?

[RammsteinFan92]

The whole thing is bad off.

The plane was supposed to hit, right after it did FBI seized security tapes from a gas station across the street. The plane was said to bounce off the Pentagon's lawn and hit the side, there was no mark on the ground, a 747 would have left a big freaking skid on that grass. The light poles that the government said the plane hit were facing the wrong direction they should have been if a plane hit them. Workers inside the building told police, not the FBI, that they heard explosions going off everywhere, and they were on the other side of the building, and just luckily, where the plane hit, it was finished yet, so no one was working there. Oh, and everyone that testified about "bombs" going off inside the Pentagon, all resigned from their positions.

i'm glad you actually take my side for once.....lol....

[ronald_reagan]

pc_you_know....

if they all got off work..... why did 125 inside lose their lives inside that 'tiny hole' that the 'missle' made?

[Redneck]

so are you saying you believe it was a conspiracy?

**** NO.... Where in the world do you get that I was sayin I thought it was a conspiracy.

[RammsteinFan92]

**** NO.... Where in the world do you get that I was sayin I thought it was a conspiracy.

Then where's the plane? Where are all those people who were on that plane that "supposedly" did and didn't hit the Pentagon?

this gave me the thought that you did.....

[RammsteinFan92]

There was no plane, and there were no people on a plane, they are all in witness protection and will be for the rest of their lives.

Can you honestly back up a statement that passports of terrorists who hijacked a plane that hit the WTC were found on the ground beneath but 2 blackboxes from a 747 that hit the pentagon couldn't be found? Paper vs. Metal, I'd think metal would last through explosions, fires and high temperatures, but somehow paper did?

MY Point i agree with you 100%

[RammsteinFan92]

You honestly believe that our own government planned everything that happened on 9/11. Our own government killed thousands upon thousands of our own innocent people.

there was a plan to do this when kennedy was in office......basically the same thing but it was to invade Cuba.....but they decided no too.....

[ronald_reagan]

MY Point i agree with you 100%

You ignore the photos and witnesses I posted above. Its obvious why.

[Redneck]

Then where's the plane? Where are all those people who were on that plane that "supposedly" did and didn't hit the Pentagon?

this gave me the thought that you did.....

I was askin PC_You_Know where that plane was. You know the one that disappeared on the radars. Where are all those people that families lost.

[Redneck]

there was a plan to do this when kennedy was in office......basically the same thing but it was to invade Cuba.....but they decided no too.....

Where did you hear this at and who is your history teacher?

[vundy33]

They tried to invade Cuba...and BTW...they hadn't even started building the WTC when Kennedy was in office. Saying this is a conspiracy theory is bull****...it's like saying that UK isn't the all-time winningest program, but the facts are right in front of you. Why can't you guys get it?

[RammsteinFan92]

They tried to invade Cuba...and BTW...they hadn't even started building the WTC when Kennedy was in office. Saying this is a conspiracy theory is bull****...it's like saying that UK isn't the all-time winningest program, but the facts are right in front of you. Why can't you guys get it?

ok the plan i metioned didn't involve the WTC....you missunderstood....Wacth Loose Change...

[RammsteinFan92]

Where did you hear this at and who is your history teacher?

ok....again.....the plan i was talking about didn't involve the WTC...my American History teacher didn't tell me this........

[Redneck]

ok the plan i metioned didn't involve the WTC....you missunderstood....Wacth Loose Change...

Loose Change is a crock. Just a bunch of computer nerds (no offense to anybody on here) tryin to get some attention. The sad part about it is people actually believed what they put together.

[RammsteinFan92]

You ignore the photos and witnesses I posted above. Its obvious why.

What Photos and Witnesses....speaking of witnesses......people that were in the WTC that survived said they heard Multiple Explosions

[vundy33]

You don't make any sense...?? Explain what the government tried to do when Kennedy was in office...you are very misinformed but it's a little funny to hear these crazy ideas.

[Redneck]

ok....again.....the plan i was talking about didn't involve the WTC...my American History teacher didn't tell me this........

I asked first, no need in makin it out like you already posted this before I asked the question. What does you history teacher think about it.

[RammsteinFan92]

Loose Change is a crock. Just a bunch of computer nerds (no offense to anybody on here) tryin to get some attention. The sad part about it is people actually believed what they put together.

do u believe everything the Goverment Tells You.....Have You Watched Zeit Geist?

[Redneck]

do u believe everything the Goverment Tells You.....Have You Watched Zeit Geist?

The government dont tell me poopy, I'm not blind. I seen it all on the news and it's evident in the pictures that ronald_reagan posted. How can you or anyone else actually say that a plane didn't crash into the Pentagon?

[Redneck]

Have You Watched Zeit Geist?

Nope, I'm more in to excitin stuff like sports and porn...

[ronald_reagan]

What Photos and Witnesses....speaking of witnesses......people that were in the WTC that survived said they heard Multiple Explosions

Post 51, 52, and 53. It debunks the majority of your claims.

Many many witnesses that actually saw the planes hit. Photos of plane debris. Photos of the 'small' hole you speak of. Etc. Get real dude. You were 8 or 9 y/o on 9/11.

[vundy33]

What Photos and Witnesses....speaking of witnesses......people that were in the WTC that survived said they heard Multiple Explosions

:mad:

My old high school history teach is from New York...he was on leave to see his granddaughter being born in Manhatten. He stopped by the WTC to see his son-in-law that worked there but he was out on lunch so he decided to get coffee at the mulitple coffee stands that were in-between the two towers. He said he heard a roar...looked up and seen the tail end of the plane hit. He said within seconds there were people free-falling 100 stories and hitting the ground. He said the best way to explain it is it's like dropping a water balloon filled with red water hitting the ground...You can go ahead and say all you want that it is a conspiracy but your beating a dead horse...YOU ARE WRONG.

[ronald_reagan]

Lets just say there were mutlitple explosions. i can go with that. a non liquid fuel house fire will do the same. without 50,000 gallons of jet fuel.

The fact is, these things happen, and witnesses can be wrong. There's video from the first plane, until the last collaspe. Where are the 'multiple booms' on them? They're not there.

You lost this debate because of your willingness to keep going off in the same direction... the wrong one.

The facts are here, and if you need clarification... ask for it.

So... when you say there WAS NO PLANE? That means that the airline was invovled and took a huge loss on just making the plane disappear... and it also means that those aboard had to fake their death, at the expense of the tears of all those who believed it. Its ridiculous.

[RammsteinFan92]

You don't make any sense...?? Explain what the government tried to do when Kennedy was in office...you are very misinformed but it's a little funny to hear these crazy ideas.

Operation Northwoods, or Northwoods, was a 1962 plan by the US Department of Defense to stage acts of simulated or real terrorism on US soil and against US interests and then put the blame of these acts on Cuba, so as to generate U.S. public support for military action against the Cuban government of Fidel Castro.

As part of the U.S. government's Operation Mongoose anti-Castro initiative, the plan, which was not implemented, called for various false flag actions, including simulated or real state-sponsored acts of terrorism (such as hijacked planes) on U.S. and Cuban soil. The plan was proposed by senior U.S. Department of Defense leaders, including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Louis Lemnitzer.

Contents [hide]
1 Origins and public release
2 Content
3 Related Operation Mongoose proposals
4 Reaction
5 See also
6 Further reading
7 References
8 External links



[edit] Origins and public release
The main proposal was presented in a document entitled "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba (TS)," a collection of draft memoranda written by the Department of Defense (DoD) and the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) representative to the Caribbean Survey Group.[1] (The parenthetical "TS" in the title of the document is an initialism for "Top Secret.") The document was presented by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13 with one paragraph approved, as a preliminary submission for planning purposes.

The previously secret document was originally made public on November 18, 1997 by the John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Review Board,[2] a U.S. federal agency overseeing the release of government records related to John F. Kennedy's assassination.[3][4][5][6][7] A total 1521 pages of once-secret military records covering 1962 to 1964 were concomitantly declassified by said Review Board.

"Appendix to Enclosure A" and "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" of the Northwoods document were first published online by the National Security Archive on November 6, 1998 in a joint venture with CNN as part of CNN's 1998 Cold War television documentary series[8][9]—specifically, as a documentation supplement to "Episode 10: Cuba," which aired on November 29, 1998.[10][11] "Annex to Appendix to Enclosure A" is the section of the document which contains the proposals to stage terrorist attacks.

The Northwoods document was published online in a more complete form (i.e., including cover memoranda) by the National Security Archive on April 30, 2001.[12]


[edit] Content
In response to a request for pretexts for military intervention by the Chief of Operations of the Cuba Project, Brig. Gen. Edward Lansdale, the document lists methods (with, in some cases, outlined plans) the authors believed would garner public and international support for U.S. military intervention in Cuba. These are staged attacks purporting to be of Cuban origin, with a number of them having real casualties. Central to the plan was the use of "friendly Cubans"—Cuban exiles seeking to oust Fidel Castro.

The proposals included:

Starting rumors about Cuba by using clandestine radios.
Staging mock attacks, sabotages and riots at Guantanamo Bay and blaming them on Cuban forces.
Blowing up a U.S. ship in Guantánamo Bay and blaming it on Cuba—reminiscent of the destruction of the USS Maine at Havana in 1898, which helped to precipitate the Spanish-American War. (The document's first suggestion regarding the sinking of a U.S. ship is to blow up a ship at sea and hence would result in U.S. Navy members being killed, with a secondary suggestion of possibly using an unmanned ship and fake funerals instead.)
"Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type [sic] planes would be useful as complementary actions."
Destroying an unmanned drone masquerading as a commercial aircraft supposedly full of "college students off on a holiday". This proposal was the one supported by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Staging a "terror campaign", including the "real or simulated" sinking of Cuban refugees:
"We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at refugees seeking haven in the United States. We could sink a boatload of Cubans enroute [sic] to Florida (real or simulated). We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement, also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government."

Burning crops by dropping incendiary devices in Haiti, the Dominican Republic or elsewhere.
Journalist James Bamford summarized Operation Northwoods in his April 24, 2001 book Body of Secrets:

Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.[13]


[edit] Related Operation Mongoose proposals
In addition to Operation Northwoods, under the Operation Mongoose program the Department of Defense had a number of similar proposals to be taken against the Cuban regime of Fidel Castro.

Twelve of these proposals come from a February 2, 1962 memorandum entitled "Possible Actions to Provoke, Harass or Disrupt Cuba," written by Brig. Gen. William H. Craig and submitted to Brig. Gen. Edward Lansdale, the commander of the Operation Mongoose project.[14][5][6][7]

The memorandum outlines Operation Bingo, a plan to, in its words, "create an incident which has the appearance of an attack on U.S. facilities (GMO) in Cuba, thus providing an excuse for use of U.S. military might to overthrow the current government of Cuba."

It also includes Operation Dirty Trick, a plot to blame Castro if the 1962 Mercury manned space flight carrying John Glenn crashed, saying "The objective is to provide irrevocable proof that, should the MERCURY manned orbit flight fail, the fault lies with the Communists et al Cuba [sic]." It continues, "This to be accomplished by manufacturing various pieces of evidence which would prove electronic interference on the part of the Cubans."


Included in the nations the Joint Chiefs suggested as targets for covert attacks were Jamaica and Trinidad-Tobago. Since both were members of the British Commonwealth, the Joint Chiefs hoped that by secretly attacking them and then falsely blaming Cuba, the United States could incite the people of the United Kingdom into supporting a war against Castro.[13] As the Pentagon report noted,

Any of the contrived situations described above are inherently, extremely risky in our democratic system in which security can be maintained, after the fact, with very great difficulty. If the decision should be made to set up a contrived situation it should be one in which participation by U.S. personnel is limited only to the most highly trusted covert personnel. This suggests the infeasibility of the use of military units for any aspect of the contrived situation.[13]

The Pentagon report even suggested covertly paying a person in the Castro government to attack the United States: "The only area remaining for consideration then would be to bribe one of Castro's subordinate commanders to initiate an attack on [the U.S. Navy base at] Guantanamo."[13]


[edit] Reaction
It has been reported that John F. Kennedy personally rejected the Northwoods proposal, but no official record of this exists. The proposal was sent for approval to the Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, but was not implemented. President Kennedy removed General Lyman Lemnitzer as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff shortly afterward, although he became Supreme Allied Commander of NATO in January 1963.

The continuing push against the Cuban government by internal elements of the U.S. military and intelligence community (the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion, the Cuban Project, etc.) prompted President John F. Kennedy to attempt to rein in burgeoning hardline anti-Communist sentiment that was intent on proactive, aggressive action against communist movements around the globe. After the Bay of Pigs, John F. Kennedy fired then CIA director Allen W. Dulles, Deputy Director Charles P. Cabell, as well as Deputy Director Richard Bissell, and turned his attention towards Vietnam.

Kennedy also took steps to bring discipline to the CIA's Cold War and paramilitary operations by drafting a National Security Action Memorandum (NSAM) which called for the shift of Cold War operations to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Pentagon as well as a major change in the role of the CIA to exclusively deal in intelligence gathering.

[Redneck]

This just keeps gettin better and better, lol...

[vundy33]

It's about time you showed some evidence for something...

[RammsteinFan92]

thank god that RR got into this or I wouldve went crazy. First of all, do some research before you post this stupid non-sense.

THANK YOU VERY FREAKING MUCH I HAVE I'VE WATHCED LIKE 6 HOURS OF MOVIES ON THIS.....

[vundy33]

I still don't see why this thread hasn't been closed yet...why are we still talking about this?

[RammsteinFan92]

It's about time you showed some evidence for something...

lol.....very funny.....NOT....