[vundy33]

This is what I can't figure out. People want the "freedom of choice". But why is it that I don't have the choice to wear my seatbelt? If I get killed because I don't have on my seatbelt, it affects only me. If a woman has an abortion, it affects the baby. Also, on the subject of rape and incest, I believe that everything happens for a reason. Who are we to say who should live and who should die? If we take the stance that the product of rape or incest should be allowed to be aborted, what is the next step? Why don't we just get rid of all the old people wasting taxpayer dollars in nursing homes, get rid of all the people in mental institutions, wasting money? The bottom line is we the people don't have the right to play God to say who should live and who should die. And as for back alley abortions, people are going to do crazy things to their body no matter how much we try to prevent it. We don't have to make it convenient for them. I really believe that people who do harm to children and the elderly are going to be severly punished.

Good point.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

Before I can begin to take you serious, are you a woman? Can you even begin to tell me what it feels like to be pregnant in high school? To have to walk down the halls or sit in a desk with a protruding belly, taking in all the stares?

Can you tell me what it's like to be decent student in college, have one bad night, and that ruin the rest of your life? I don't think so, so your opinion is blind to me. You are just giving the opinion from a man's point of view, which is that pregnancy is nothing and it does nothing to people's lives and that women who don't want to be pregnant are just weak or irresponsible. Which is not the case.

I agree that there are better ways of birth control, but do you not realize what would happen if we changed the law on abortion? We would have desperate women, young and maybe some old, that are risking their lives and/or dying from botched illegal abortions.

Ok you never answered my question though and no body who is pro-choice has EVER been able to answer it. WHY DOES THE CHILD HAVE TO PAY FOR THE PARENTS "ONE BAD NIGHT"????????

[thecavemaster]

Ok you never answered my question though and no body who is pro-choice has EVER been able to answer it. WHY DOES THE CHILD HAVE TO PAY FOR THE PARENTS "ONE BAD NIGHT"????????

Why does the child have to pay? Because a child can survive if not attached to an umbilical cord. A first trimester fetus cannot. A child and a first trimester fetus are not the same, just as a corn seed and an ear of corn are not the same. I am quite sure that your question HAS been answered, but you don't agree with the answer, then flatter yourself by suggesting it has never been answered.

[Watchful Eye]

Godd Comment!!!!!!!!
They got an answer. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean you didn't get one.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

Why does the child have to pay? Because a child can survive if not attached to an umbilical cord. A first trimester fetus cannot. A child and a first trimester fetus are not the same, just as a corn seed and an ear of corn are not the same. I am quite sure that your question HAS been answered, but you don't agree with the answer, then flatter yourself by suggesting it has never been answered.

Whether you like it or not that IS a living thing inside the mothers womb. Formed by GOD himself. Why do you pro-choicers always try to tear us down for wanting an innocent life protected.

[ronald_reagan]

Whether you like it or not that IS a living thing inside the mothers womb. Formed by GOD himself. Why do you pro-choicers always try to tear us down for wanting an innocent life protected.

because there's no justification otherwise.

[thecavemaster]

I do not wish to tear you down. A corn seed is a living thing; however, it is not an ear of corn. A first trimester fetus cannot be exactly equated with a child outside the womb. I am not saying that I am a proponent of abortion. I am suggesting that the question you raised and claimed "never been answered" has been answered.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

I do not wish to tear you down. A corn seed is a living thing; however, it is not an ear of corn. A first trimester fetus cannot be exactly equated with a child outside the womb. I am not saying that I am a proponent of abortion. I am suggesting that the question you raised and claimed "never been answered" has been answered.

I didnt mean it hadnt been answered on this site. Although while yours was colorful I was looking for the right answer and got corn LOL!!! I work with some pro-choice advocates and have had many converstion with them on the subject. How is it our place to decide whether something is living or "not really"? If something IS in fact a living thing dont you agree that there should be no difference between one living thing and another regardless of the degree of life it has or hasnt had the chance to achieve? Im not one these extremists who wants to bomb abortion clinics or anything and I know that sometimes good people make bad choices. All I and the majority of pro-life advocates are saying is that a LIFE be it corn seed, an ear of corn, Orville Redenbacher or other wise, doesnt have to be lost because of those mistakes. The state of Alabama has it figured out better than anyone IMO. When a mother goes to a doctor and wants to terminate her pregnancy. The Doctor or Clinic she goes to is REQUIRED by state law to offer her the alternative of having the child and letting the hospital legaly take the child. The mother never has to see the child if she chooses not to and the hospital cares for the child until social services arrives and places the child with an adoptive family that will hopefuly love it and care for it. The mother is relieved of her responsibilities at that moment and MAYBE after going through morning sickness and swelled ankles for nine months she might think a little harder the next time about dropping her drawers before shes ready. A pound of cure is worth one ounce of pure prevention. GO BAMA!!! ROLL TIDE!!!! LOL!!!!

[ronald_reagan]

Im not one these extremists who wants to bomb abortion clinics or anything

I guess I'm one of the good people who does bad things. :o

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

I guess I'm one of the good people who does bad things. :o

Why? Have you bombed an abortion clinic lately MR. President LOL!!!!!

[ronald_reagan]

Why? Have you bombed an abortion clinic lately MR. President LOL!!!!!

lol not yet. jk

[thecavemaster]

Of course, a corn seed, if taken full term, will, without drought or drown or disease, become an ear of corn. However, to hold an ear of corn in one hand, a seed of corn in the other, then allow the mind to wander a bit... the analogy is not so far fetched as one might first think. There are many things one might say and do with an ear of corn that do not apply to the seed, though both are living things. This analogy is only preposterous if the mind refused to wrap around the analogy.

[Crossbones]

I am a born again Christian. As such I feel abortion is wrong. But I personally feel there is some exception to it though. That is my own personal beliefs. I may be wrong, but that is between God and myself and I will stand before Him and be accountable. A personal experience of mine: My wife was 8 months pregnant with our second child (she lost one in between, she developed toxemia during our first pregnancy) Her blood pressure stayed up all the time. On the night she give birth her blood pressure was way up and would not come down, she was on the verge of a stoke. I called her doctor at home (at 1:00 am ) and he said bring her in now. When we got there they took her straight to surgery and the doctor came out to me and said " One of them is not going to make it and I need a decision from you right now" My exact word were " whatever you do or whatever happens I want my wife to live" He left me alone and I fell to the floor and started crying, the next thing I know about 10 members of my church were standing there and started praying. Long story short My baby girl is now 6 years old and healthy. Was I wrong in the idea that I picked my wife over my child? Was I going against God? I don't think I was in either.

[Crossbones]

Another thing, I have a 12 year old daughter. She is my pride. And example would be: God forbid: She is raped and gets pregnant. I feel an abortion in this case would be proper. Again I may be wrong in my personal beliefs, but I am the one that will stand accountable before my Lord. I personally feel that this is not the will of God for a child to get pregnant through rape and have to suffer from it for the rest of their life. Now on the other hand, If my child (God Forbid) was promiscuous and got pregnant on her own through having sex willingly then she would be accountable of her actions and have to raise that child. Again these are my personal beliefs. I try to study God's Word with a open mind and heart and I do not fill convicted for my beliefs.

[thecavemaster]

A lot say, "If the man and woman choose to have sex, whether that sex be based on drunkenness, passion or whatever, and a pregnancy results, then they ought to accept responsiblity for their actions." However, "if the woman did not choose to have sex, but was forced by a friend or stranger, or was manipulated by a relative, then responsibility passes from the woman." A first trimester fetus is not a child in any of the above circumstances.

[Chuck Taylor]

I do belive abortion is wrong and women don't have a choice. If women have a choice to KILL there children then any convicted murderer had the right to kill who ever they did. I have one question. Whats the difference in abortion killing a innocent human and shooting someone in the head?:confused:

My belief is abortion is a woman's right. No one including the government can tell her what to do with her body.

[ComfortEagle]

OK, so everyone here that's said abortion is wrong, and I'm a Christian I don't agree with abortion; what do you think about the death penalty? I realize there's another thread on this but to me it's the same thing.

How can you say it's not right to have an abortion, but it's perfectly ok to give a grown human being a lethal injection?

[Midee1]

OK, so everyone here that's said abortion is wrong, and I'm a Christian I don't agree with abortion; what do you think about the death penalty? I realize there's another thread on this but to me it's the same thing.

How can you say it's not right to have an abortion, but it's perfectly ok to give a grown human being a lethal injection?

Because the death penalty is given after the person has been convicted of a crime by a jury of his peers and sentenced to death.

An unborn fetus only has the mother to make the decision for them. The unborn fetus has done nothing wrong but the convicted felon has.

[thecavemaster]

Tough issues, no doubt. I do sometimes wonder about this though: it is documented beyond dispute that several people who were innocent have been executed. So often, a lot of people are against abortion but for the death penalty. When it comes to the death penalty, they seem ok with a few innocents dying. "Strange days indeed."

[ronald_reagan]

Tough issues, no doubt. I do sometimes wonder about this though: it is documented beyond dispute that several people who were innocent have been executed. So often, a lot of people are against abortion but for the death penalty. When it comes to the death penalty, they seem ok with a few innocents dying. "Strange days indeed."

I agree 100%. :rockon: (dont be hatin on my cartoons lol)

[thecavemaster]

I didnt mean it hadnt been answered on this site. Although while yours was colorful I was looking for the right answer and got corn LOL!!! I work with some pro-choice advocates and have had many converstion with them on the subject. How is it our place to decide whether something is living or "not really"? If something IS in fact a living thing dont you agree that there should be no difference between one living thing and another regardless of the degree of life it has or hasnt had the chance to achieve? Im not one these extremists who wants to bomb abortion clinics or anything and I know that sometimes good people make bad choices. All I and the majority of pro-life advocates are saying is that a LIFE be it corn seed, an ear of corn, Orville Redenbacher or other wise, doesnt have to be lost because of those mistakes. The state of Alabama has it figured out better than anyone IMO. When a mother goes to a doctor and wants to terminate her pregnancy. The Doctor or Clinic she goes to is REQUIRED by state law to offer her the alternative of having the child and letting the hospital legaly take the child. The mother never has to see the child if she chooses not to and the hospital cares for the child until social services arrives and places the child with an adoptive family that will hopefuly love it and care for it. The mother is relieved of her responsibilities at that moment and MAYBE after going through morning sickness and swelled ankles for nine months she might think a little harder the next time about dropping her drawers before shes ready. A pound of cure is worth one ounce of pure prevention. GO BAMA!!! ROLL TIDE!!!! LOL!!!!

And, of course, in sympathy for the mother, the father, who also dropped his "drawers" before he was ready, is given Ipicac (?) syrup to drink for nine months and injected with gout on his ankles for nine months..... hey, you torture lovers out there might like this plan...

[sherman14]

There is so much ****ed up with this country it's not funny.
1. George Bush
2. The war in Iraq
3. Abortion

[sherman14]

The onlt way abortion is right if the woman would die if she had the child. But I know some people who would die for their children.

[thecavemaster]

Marching down the street yelling about "Jews" and "niggers" being inferior isn't right... but it is guaranteed in the Constitution.

[ronald_reagan]

Marching down the street yelling about "Jews" and "niggers" being inferior isn't right... but it is guaranteed in the Constitution.

Show me where abortion is guaranteed by the Constitution......

Its definately not in the 9th or 14th amendments.....

In fact, the 14th actually mentions 'life' in it. The right to privacy isn't in there either. This is just baffling to me. But luckily I'm not the only one.. many scholars on both sides of the abortion debate, say that Roe v Wade is bad law and wrongly decided. As I said, including many proponents of pro-choice policies.

For anyone of us here to take the founders intent, and distort it by saying that abortion was ok to them and thats what they meant by 'liberty'.. we'd be surely lying.

Also, the right to free speech and expression wasn't meant to be universal.

[ronald_reagan]

Liberal legal scholars have criticized Roe, despite their opposition to pro-life laws, arguing that the ends achieved by Roe do not justify the means.[21]

William Saletan, for example, has written that "Blackmun’s [Supreme Court] papers vindicate every indictment of Roe: invention, overreach, arbitrariness, textual indifference."[22] In a 1973 article in the Yale Law Journal, Professor John Hart Ely criticized Roe as a decision which "is not constitutional law and gives almost no sense of an obligation to try to be."[23] Ely added: "What is frightening about Roe is that this super-protected right is not inferable from the language of the Constitution, the framers’ thinking respecting the specific problem in issue, any general value derivable from the provisions they included, or the nation’s governmental structure."

Similarly, Harvard law professor Laurence Tribe has noted that, "One of the most curious things about Roe is that, behind its own verbal smokescreen, the substantive judgment on which it rests is nowhere to be found."[24] Watergate prosecutor Archibald Cox wrote: "[Roe’s] failure to confront the issue in principled terms leaves the opinion to read like a set of hospital rules and regulations.... Neither historian, nor layman, nor lawyer will be persuaded that all the prescriptions of Justice Blackmun are part of the Constitution."[25]

Ruth Bader Ginsburg has criticized the court's ruling in Roe v. Wade for terminating a nascent democratic movement to liberalize abortion law.[26] Likewise, legal affairs editor Jeffrey Rosen[27] and Michael Kinsley[28] say that a democratic movement would have been the correct way to build a more durable consensus in support of abortion rights.

Legal analyst Benjamin Wittes has written that Roe "disenfranchised millions of conservatives on an issue about which they care deeply".[29] Edward Lazarus, a former Blackmun clerk who "loved Roe’s author like a grandfather" wrote: "As a matter of constitutional interpretation and judicial method, Roe borders on the indefensible....Justice Blackmun’s opinion provides essentially no reasoning in support of its holding. And in the almost 30 years since Roe’s announcement, no one has produced a convincing defense of Roe on its own terms."[30] Liberal law professors Alan Dershowitz,[31] Cass Sunstein,[32] and Kermit Roosevelt[33] have also expressed disappointment with Roe.

from wikipedia

[Coach_Owens87]

I dont believe abortion is right either, but I cant tell other people people what to do with their life.

Im also against the death penalty, I believe if someone is going to be pro-life they should fully be pro-life. Which is what confuses me about Bush, he got so many votes for being against abortion, and being "Pro-life", but yet he sends us into an unjust war and kills hundreds of thousands of people. And he used the death penalty very often while being governor of texas. We live in a messed up world.

[ronald_reagan]

I dont believe abortion is right either, but I cant tell other people people what to do with their life.

Im also against the death penalty, I believe if someone is going to be pro-life they should fully be pro-life. Which is what confuses me about Bush, he got so many votes for being against abortion, and being "Pro-life", but yet he sends us into an unjust war and kills hundreds of thousands of people. And he used the death penalty very often while being governor of texas. We live in a messed up world.

Its unfair to say that as governor, Bush had people executed. The governor of Texas has no power to commute a death sentence, unless the parole board recommends it. If they don't recommend it, the execution can not be stopped by the governor.

Although, bush is obviously a huge supporter of the death penalty, its just a faulty arguement to say that he had much to do with while governor.

[Coach_Owens87]

Its unfair to say that as governor, Bush had people executed. The governor of Texas has no power to commute a death sentence, unless the parole board recommends it. If they don't recommend it, the execution can not be stopped by the governor.

Although, bush is obviously a huge supporter of the death penalty, its just a faulty arguement to say that he had much to do with while governor.

I dont really think I have a faulty argument. In Bush's gubernatorial term 113 people where put to death, and only one received clemency. He also oversaw the passage of a law in 1995 that drastically speed up the death penalty appeals in state court, lawyers called this the "speed the Juice" law. His staff reported that he spent 15-30 minutes revewing each case, and was confident no innocent man was killed. That just dont seem like a man too concerned with killing the innocent.

[ronald_reagan]

I dont really think I have a faulty argument. In Bush's gubernatorial term 113 people where put to death, and only one received clemency. He also oversaw the passage of a law in 1995 that drastically speed up the death penalty appeals in state court, lawyers called this the "speed the Juice" law. His staff reported that he spent 15-30 minutes revewing each case, and was confident no innocent man was killed. That just dont seem like a man too concerned with killing the innocent.

Bush couldn't commute a sentence though unless the board recommended it. All death penalties were reviewed by much more than 15-30 minutes per case by them, Bush then reviewed the panels finding and was briefed by council. As I said, Bush wouldn't be commute them anyways, even if he could. I'm sure of that.

I'm just saying its a very weak aruement to say that Bush is pro-death, because of the above information... and factually incorrect to say that he 'used the death penalty often'.