[ronald_reagan]

Does a hot air balloon ever fly 'round the world simply on the noxious hot air you spout out and out and out? Those who kill/torture in the name of "god" in the name of "national security," in whatever name and for whatever cause are poison. I've said that before. It's just you can't hear for the noise in your own head and larynx.

I'll kill in the name of God and national security. Anytime needed. And I'd never think twice about it.

And yes, you've said that before. You tend to repeat yourself habitiually.

[thecavemaster]

I figured you probably would. I have to repeat myself when I debate with you because you seldom understand the first time. It's o.k. I have a mentally handicapped nephew.

[ronald_reagan]

I figured you probably would. I have to repeat myself when I debate with you because you seldom understand the first time. It's o.k. I have a mentally handicapped nephew.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Cavemaster, I'm not going to play your little games anymore. If you want serious debate on a serious issues, feel free. Otherwise, you'll find that you're talking to yourself... again.

We get it. America is bad. You have in IQ of at least 170. And the Ph.D at the end of your real name doesn't stand for some fraternity you once were in.

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

[thecavemaster]

It was a play on Dixiecrat. Didn't think it that offensive, given your comments at the end of your post. By the way, when did it become "anti-American" to abhor torture and disregard for human dignity?

[ronald_reagan]

It was a play on Dixiecrat. Didn't think it that offensive, given your comments at the end of your post. By the way, when did it become "anti-American" to abhor torture and disregard for human dignity?

I've yet to see a thread or post from you about being proud of our actions, or being proud of being a citizen of this great nation. You continually equate us with 'them'.

I'm done with this discussion. Its played itself out over some 35 posts or so ....

[thecavemaster]

But you didn't answer the question. It is not anti=American to abhor the disregard of human dignity. It is not anti-American to question the overthrow of a sovereign government. It is not anti-American to question a particular administration's policies. In fact, it is far more American than a mindless patriotism ever is or was.

[ComfortEagle]

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

-Thomas Jefferson

[ronald_reagan]

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."

-Thomas Jefferson

I believe in honest sincere dissent. I think sincerity and honesty is something that most lack these days when anything political in nature comes up. I say things that are unpopular, but i'd dedicated my life to these causes. I've worked and fought for them for years upon years, giving up blood, sweat, tears, money, time, and energy. Sincerity and honesty are two of the greatest virtues possible.... And the lack of them, tend to drive me mad.

[thecavemaster]

I was proud when Federal troops escorted an African American student into Alabama and Mississippi. I am always proud when true freedom and true human dignity win out over bigotry, the cowardice of the mob, the calousness of profits before people. I want to live in a nation which places human dignity above the desire for revenge, the desire to feel "safe," ...whenever America answers the call of true valor, true courage, true leaderhship, I am proud.

[DevilsWin]

AMERICAN citizens were taken from their homes and placed INVOLUNTARILY in confinement camps. Who gets to say when we can and cannot suspend essential liberties? Who can be trusted with that? Times change; essential liberty does not.

And when many of them returned to their homes. They found out that they had been taken by white families.

[DevilsWin]

I believe in honest sincere dissent. I think sincerity and honesty is something that most lack these days when anything political in nature comes up. I say things that are unpopular, but i'd dedicated my life to these causes. I've worked and fought for them for years upon years, giving up blood, sweat, tears, money, time, and energy. Sincerity and honesty are two of the greatest virtues possible.... And the lack of them, tend to drive me mad.

Hey Gipper, have you ever worn a uniform of the U.S. Military?

[ronald_reagan]

And when many of them returned to their homes. They found out that they had been taken by white families.

As President, I signed issued an official apology, and paid reperations for our actions to those families. And in 1992, my former VP did so once again, and paid even more. Totaling over $2.5 billion in todays money. In 1948 we first acknowledged the 'wrong'. (if you can call it that.) And gave $40 million to the families. Among other benefits. Job training, unemployment, housing etc.

But anyways, I don't mind. I'd have probably been more harsh and swifter acting than FDR was. And when Lincoln destroyed the rights of all citizens and used slavery for political gain, I would have probably been a John Wilkes Booth sympathizer of the day. FDR acted in the interests of the country, Lincoln acted for political gain. His own writings prove that he planned on using slavery to win the election of 1860... becoming one of the first and few to win the election with no where near a majority of voters supporting him. He 'divided and conquered'.

[ronald_reagan]

Hey Gipper, have you ever worn a uniform of the U.S. Military?

Yes sir. I was Captain in the Army. Enlisting in 1937 as private, becoming 2nd luet, and then captain in 1943. I was recommended for promotion to Major in 1945.

[DevilsWin]

As President, I signed issued an official apology, and paid reperations for our actions to those families. And in 1992, my former VP did so once again, and paid even more. Totaling over $2.5 billion in todays money. In 1948 we first acknowledged the 'wrong'. (if you can call it that.) And gave $40 million to the families. Among other benefits. Job training, unemployment, housing etc.

But anyways, I don't mind. I'd have probably been more harsh and swifter acting than FDR was. And when Lincoln destroyed the rights of all citizens and used slavery for political gain, I would have probably been a John Wilkes Booth sympathizer of the day. FDR acted in the interests of the country, Lincoln acted for political gain. His own writings prove that he planned on using slavery to win the election of 1860... becoming one of the first and few to win the election with no where near a majority of voters supporting him. He 'divided and conquered'.

What is this I stuff. You are just "Joe Schmuckatelli" from Eastern Kentucky. :Shaking:

[DevilsWin]

Yes sir. I was Captain in the Army. Enlisting in 1937 as private, becoming 2nd luet, and then captain in 1943. I was recommended for promotion to Major in 1945.

:thatsfunn Now, which of your personalities is this? Is it really you or just someone you would like to have been?hh:

[ronald_reagan]

What is this I stuff. You are just "Joe Schmuckatelli" from Eastern Kentucky. :Shaking:

Its really me.

Believe.

[DevilsWin]

Its really me.

Believe.

Pathetic.

[Ring'Em Up]

Seriously.....can you believe this guy is STILL going on with this pathetic charade? I jus wish I knew the reasoning behind it?
Too bad we can only give one reputation mark at a time to a single poster.

[ronald_reagan]

Seriously.....can you believe this guy is STILL going on with this pathetic charade? I jus wish I knew the reasoning behind it?
Too bad we can only give one reputation mark at a time to a single poster.

If you'll contact the moderators, i'll give them to permission to give you the option of giving me 3 at a time if you'd like.

That would be a huge punishment. I'm guessing you equate your 'reputation' on here with 'how many friends you have on myspace'. :Clap:

Anyways...

Back on topic.

[thecavemaster]

Well, well, Pseudo RR...listen to you rant... some of your verbal phlegm is starting to collect on your straightjacket.

[vundy33]

This is a tough issue for me...I look at it from both sides. I wouldn't want our soldiers that become P.O.W.'s to go through water-boarding, but yet I am for the U.S. doing it to terrorists to get info. I guess since Al-Queda just cuts the throats of our soldiers instead of water-boarding them I am for it...water-board them all.

[ronald_reagan]

This is a tough issue for me...I look at it from both sides. I wouldn't want our soldiers that become P.O.W.'s to go through water-boarding, but yet I am for the U.S. doing it to terrorists to get info. I guess since Al-Queda just cuts the throats of our soldiers instead of water-boarding them I am for it...water-board them all.

It bothers me to see it happen to anyone, but I've always believed in small 'wrongs', to stop larger ones.

But according to the CIA, all agents who participate in intelligence gathering actually have to go through it themselves as part of training.

I agree though, water-board them all. :flame:

[vundy33]

Yes, Ops forces also have to go through it.

[ronald_reagan]

Yes, Ops forces also have to go through it.

Didn't know that! Interesting!

I read that Kahled Sheik Momhamed (KSM, who was waterboarded for intelligence that saved many lives).. actually made it about 5 minutes, while most crack within a minute.. leading many officials to believe that he recieved training to defeat the tactic.

[vundy33]

Yes, alot of Ops barely make it a minute.

[ronald_reagan]

Yes, alot of Ops barely make it a minute.

Thats amazing isn't it?

I can hold my breath for nearly 2 1/2 - 3 minutes under water..... but the stress associated would definately lower it. Yet, death can not occur from water boarding, because its controlled and you have plenty of time to breathe in between the cups of water being poured. However, I wish that we'd use a water hose lol...

[thecavemaster]

Try telling the person who is being waterboarded that they are not going to die. Perspective changes everything. I don't want to be waterboarded. I would not waterboard another human being. I think that may well be Golden Rule basics.

[ronald_reagan]

Try telling the person who is being waterboarded that they are not going to die. Perspective changes everything. I don't want to be waterboarded. I would not waterboard another human being. I think that may well be Golden Rule basics.

I don't speak their language. But I'll pass on the word if you wish, because I know a few translators who can help out.

I would be waterboarded voluntarily.. I don't mind. I knwo the end result.

I would waterboard another as well. I would follow the Golden Rule just like you.

[thecavemaster]

If you think the Golden Rule stretches there, religion and nationalism has poisoned you.

[ronald_reagan]

If you think the Golden Rule stretches there, religion and nationalism has poisoned you.

:popcorn: