[ronald_reagan]

I just had it on my mind, and was wondering what views that others have on this subject?

Personally I believe it to be torture, and think that as great as our nation is, we should refrain from such tactics. But there's a part of me that just wants to :flame: every Islamic Terrorist on the face of earth. These guys cut our heads off with dull knives, and then broadcast the video across the world. They drill holes in our heads and pour acid in them. They burn our bodies, rip them apart and then drag them down the street or hang them from their bridges. And they don't do this because we waterboard or play loud Christina Aguilera music in a cold room to extract vital intelligence (of which Kahled Sheik Mohamed gave after being water boarded). They do it because they are possessed by the spirit of the antichrist.

I mean, just look at how insane these guys are!!! In sudan as we speak, they're marching in the streets with signs wanting a woman who is about to serve 15 days in jail for allowing kids to name the class 'teddy bear', Mohamed... PUT TO DEATH!!! She named a teddy bear, after their prophet.... and they want her executed for it.

A woman in Saudi Arabia recieved something like 200 lashes as her punishment for... what? BEING RAPED!!! She was a rape victim and recieved lashes as her punishment for being in a car with a guy other than a relative. :confused:

So forget it. I support it now. Waterboard them all. irateSho irateSho

[thecavemaster]

If we become what we hate, what is left to fight over?

[ronald_reagan]

If we become what we hate, what is left to fight over?

Who's becoming what we hate? We hate cutting off heads.

If you equate waterboarding a killer for intelligence, with beheading a journalist for "Allah"... then this conversation ended before it even began.

Become what we hate.

[thecavemaster]

In WW II, we put AMERICAN citizens of Japanese descent in confinement camps.
If we become what we hate, what's left to fight over?

[ronald_reagan]

In WW II, we put AMERICAN citizens of Japanese descent in confinement camps.
If we become what we hate, what's left to fight over?

So thats what the ISLAMIC terrorists are doing to us today? putting us in interrment camps? feeding us and caring for us while we're in there??

If what we would just become what we hate for only a few days, we'd wipe out about half of whats wrong with this world... with the great military might that we have.

But anyways as I said...

I love how you equate rounding up some Japs-Americans and keeping an eye on them, with cutting our heads off and burning our bodies.

If we followed your view on this, we shouldn't have fought WWII because we 'became what we hated, and there was no reason to fight'.

I can't quit laughing. I'm sorry.

[thecavemaster]

Does the Constitution matter only when you deem it prudent or imprudent to "suspend" it?

[ronald_reagan]

Does the Constitution matter only when you deem it prudent or imprudent to "suspend" it?

FDR was wrong. I agree. I always have. Everyone does.

Lincoln suspended constitutional rights during the Civil War.

I'm a huge believer in doing a small wrong, if the larger 'right' at the end of the day is worth it. In both cases, they were.

There's a huge difference in what you are talking about, and what I am. I'm saying if waterboarding works and doesn't harm someone, then its perfectly acceptable when compared to them cutting of our heads! burning our bodies!

Thats what this is about.. not what we done wrong in 1941, or 1861. Both were fights worth fighting. And if you think we became what we hated, then join the other side! It wouldn't matter would it?

[thecavemaster]

Didn't C. S. Lewis say that when you use compromised means to achieve noble ends that you have entered the territory of "the devil"?

[ronald_reagan]

Didn't C. S. Lewis say that when you use compromised means to achieve noble ends that you have entered the territory of "the devil"?

No clue if he did or not. I know he wrote the Chronicles of Narnia though

What does it matter if he wrote that? Is that supposed to change my mind about my own beliefs?

I stand by my point, and its obvious you're backing down from yours.

[thecavemaster]

Hello, Mr. Obvious. If we use torture to make sure we stop others from torturing our citizens.... I hear so many around me say, "I don't know about that Islam...them people are crazy" as if people who blow up abortion clinics represent the totality of a belief system. To kill in the name of "god" as if to glorify "god" is reprehensible no matter what sign hangs on the door.

[ronald_reagan]

Hello, Mr. Obvious. If we use torture to make sure we stop others from torturing our citizens.... I hear so many around me say, "I don't know about that Islam...them people are crazy" as if people who blow up abortion clinics represent the totality of a belief system. To kill in the name of "god" as if to glorify "god" is reprehensible no matter what sign hangs on the door.

I give up cavemaster.

You're unwilling to accept the premise of the debate, or acknowledge my viewpoint. I'll respect that.

I will restate my position once again though for the record.

If waterboarding a KILLER ISLAMIC terrorist to extract intelligence that will save American lives, is done, I'm not goin to lose any sleep over it.

I firmly believe, as others would, that you continually equate waterboarding and interrment camps (where we took care of them), to the actions of our enemy, which inclue beheadings, hangings, burning, cutting off limbs, drilling holes through the skull, ect all while filming it and then releasing it for the entire world to see. I do no accept this, nor will I ever.

You are only strengthening my viewpoint when you do this. irateSho irateSho

[thecavemaster]

I don't believe in torture. Period. Of course, Polycarp wanted to have the heads of those who slew him. No, wait, he didn't.... Forgive them...they know not....

[ronald_reagan]

I don't believe in torture. Period. Of course, Polycarp wanted to have the heads of those who slew him. No, wait, he didn't.... Forgive them...they know not....

Ummm ok?

Thats fine.

As I said, I now support water boarding, and its not 'equal with beheadings, burnings, hangings and acid pouring...' I stand by that, and you stand by that it is.

As I said, no sleep lost.

[thecavemaster]

Torture is torture. Now, take your Ambien.

[ronald_reagan]

Torture is torture. Now, take your Ambien.

I take Ambein CR 15mg's nightly. Except weekends.

And thanks for clearing up the comparison of water boarding and beheadings. Its sad, but at least you were honest. :Clap:

[thecavemaster]

Torture is torture. I thought your reasoning seemed pharmaceutically induced.

[ronald_reagan]

Torture is torture. I thought your reasoning seemed pharmaceutically induced.

Sometimes it is. :letsparty

[thecavemaster]

May I ask why you always pepper your comments with cartoon characters?

[ronald_reagan]

May I ask why you always pepper your comments with cartoon characters?

Yes you may ask.

:letsparty

[thecavemaster]

Somehow, I closely associate them now with the sobriety of your reasonings....

[srixon2]

hey cavemaster, are you Polemarchus or Telemachus? As I love your reasoning..

[thecavemaster]

hey cavemaster, are you Polemarchus or Telemachus? As I love your reasoning..

Neither...but then, Penelope, you know that... how's your boyfriends?

[srixon2]

Just kidding, but you do have some great posts!

[thecavemaster]

Nothing wrong with that...

[srixon2]

I'd be willing to bet you drive a VW, there cavemaster?

[thecavemaster]

Nope

[vundy33]

In WW II, we put AMERICAN citizens of Japanese descent in confinement camps.
If we become what we hate, what's left to fight over?

Times were different back then...we had good reason. I don't agree with what they done, but it's not like they were treated bad at all.

[thecavemaster]

AMERICAN citizens were taken from their homes and placed INVOLUNTARILY in confinement camps. Who gets to say when we can and cannot suspend essential liberties? Who can be trusted with that? Times change; essential liberty does not.

[ronald_reagan]

AMERICAN citizens were taken from their homes and placed INVOLUNTARILY in confinement camps. Who gets to say when we can and cannot suspend essential liberties? Who can be trusted with that? Times change; essential liberty does not.

The president does, did, and was.

Being such a supporter of Lincoln's battle against the south, you should be chastising him for suspending the writ of Habeus Corpus and declaring a defacto martial law.

Had you been around during the second world war, you'd probably be helping the nation out by rounding up those very people you're now defending as mistreated.

Its amazing that you waste the very oxygen that you breathe, defending those who are treated well.... and from the past week of posting, you've not once spoken harshly of those who kill us, want us killed, and would kill us.

I've been blogging and posting for about 6 years now thanks to Al Gore's invention, and I've only came across a handful that are more anti-American than yourself.

you should visit this site when you get the chance.

http://www.justfrance.org/

[thecavemaster]

The president does, did, and was.

Being such a supporter of Lincoln's battle against the south, you should be chastising him for suspending the writ of Habeus Corpus and declaring a defacto martial law.

Had you been around during the second world war, you'd probably be helping the nation out by rounding up those very people you're now defending as mistreated.

Its amazing that you waste the very oxygen that you breathe, defending those who are treated well.... and from the past week of posting, you've not once spoken harshly of those who kill us, want us killed, and would kill us.

I've been blogging and posting for about 6 years now thanks to Al Gore's invention, and I've only came across a handful that are more anti-American than yourself.

you should visit this site when you get the chance.

http://www.justfrance.org/

Does a hot air balloon ever fly 'round the world simply on the noxious hot air you spout out and out and out? Those who kill/torture in the name of "god" in the name of "national security," in whatever name and for whatever cause are poison. I've said that before. It's just you can't hear for the noise in your own head and larynx.