[Scotty doesn't know]

I know what you mean about Jay Bruce, man. After seeing how he has torn it up at every stop he has made this year, I can't wait to see him in a Reds uniform. Could possibly be starting on Opening Day 2008.

Do you think that Votto and Bruce may be starting on opening day?

[jammin' jamey]

Do you think that Votto and Bruce may be starting on opening day?

No way Bruce sees the big leagues this year or at the start of next season...Votto may see a September call up and have a chance next year.

[More Cowbell]

No way Bruce sees the big leagues this year or at the start of next season...Votto may see a September call up and have a chance next year.

I disagree about Bruce. If he continues to tear up AAA pitching this fall, then has a spectacular spring training next year, he may force the Reds into bringing him north. I know Krivsky would rather not do that, since it starts the clock toward free agency, but he could force the team's hand. If the Reds send him down despite having the best showing of anybody in camp, they would face a huge PR backlash back in Cincy, and that's something a team drawing as poorly as the Reds can't afford to do.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I disagree about Bruce. If he continues to tear up AAA pitching this fall, then has a spectacular spring training next year, he may force the Reds into bringing him north. I know Krivsky would rather not do that, since it starts the clock toward free agency, but he could force the team's hand. If the Reds send him down despite having the best showing of anybody in camp, they would face a huge PR backlash back in Cincy, and that's something a team drawing as poorly as the Reds can't afford to do.

Very true. Where in the outfield would Bruce play? This year in the minors he has been averaging about .327 so I think he sounds ready.

[Tubby Hater]

I can see Bruce being on the opening day roster, dont know about starting on opening day though. I dont think the Reds will pay Dunn what it takes to keep him, so next year's outfield will look much different.

[More Cowbell]

I can see Bruce being on the opening day roster, dont know about starting on opening day though. I dont think the Reds will pay Dunn what it takes to keep him, so next year's outfield will look much different.

Well, I can't say I agree with that, either. I think if Bruce is on the Opening day roster it will be to start full-time. I can't see them letting him languish on the bench on the major-league roster, which would stunt his growth as a player all while accumulating service time toward free agency. If the team doesn't project him as a starter, I think they will leave him in Louisville so he can play every day.

Which brings me to this. If the Reds keep both Dunn and Griffey for next year, I think Bruce will be in the minors, because with the two of them and Hamilton there will be no place to start. If Dunn or Griffey is gone, maybe the Bruce era starts a little sooner...

[Scotty doesn't know]

Well, I can't say I agree with that, either. I think if Bruce is on the Opening day roster it will be to start full-time. I can't see them letting him languish on the bench on the major-league roster, which would stunt his growth as a player all while accumulating service time toward free agency. If the team doesn't project him as a starter, I think they will leave him in Louisville so he can play every day.

Which brings me to this. If the Reds keep both Dunn and Griffey for next year, I think Bruce will be in the minors, because with the two of them and Hamilton there will be no place to start. If Dunn or Griffey is gone, maybe the Bruce era starts a little sooner...

I would absolutely love to see LF-Bruce C-Hamilton RF-Griffey. That would be a great hitting lineup. Much different than Dunn which is hit a home run or sit on the bench.

[More Cowbell]

I would absolutely love to see LF-Bruce C-Hamilton RF-Griffey. That would be a great hitting lineup. Much different than Dunn which is hit a home run or sit on the bench.

I wouldn't mind that lineup either, but I think you sell Dunn short. It's not like he's been a drain on the lineup like some would have you believe. Look at his stats for the year:

.262 BA, 30 HR, 74 RBI, 60 BB (this puts him on pace for 40+ HR and 100+ RBI)

Yes, he strikes out a lot, and I sometimes want to strangle him when he can't get a sac fly to get that guy in from third, but he's still a top-shelf player. That would be an awful lot to expect Bruce to come in and put up those kind of power numbers right away.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I wouldn't mind that lineup either, but I think you sell Dunn short. It's not like he's been a drain on the lineup like some would have you believe. Look at his stats for the year:

.262 BA, 30 HR, 74 RBI, 60 BB (this puts him on pace for 40+ HR and 100+ RBI)

Yes, he strikes out a lot, and I sometimes want to strangle him when he can't get a sac fly to get that guy in from third, but he's still a top-shelf player. That would be an awful lot to expect Bruce to come in and put up those kind of power numbers right away.

No but I think Bruce would give you more productivity. Maybe not as many homers but heck more position hitting and timely hitting I am sure. Don't get me wrong about Dunn, I think he is a good asset for a team but not a team that needs to get that certain BANG of of their buck, offensively and defensively. Dunn would be much more effective as a DH. Defense is not really his game anyways :thumpsup:

[More Cowbell]

No but I think Bruce would give you more productivity. Maybe not as many homers but heck more position hitting and timely hitting I am sure. Don't get me wrong about Dunn, I think he is a good asset for a team but not a team that needs to get that certain BANG of of their buck, offensively and defensively. Dunn would be much more effective as a DH. Defense is not really his game anyways :thumpsup:

What is position hitting? :confused:

Anyway, Bruce would not be more productive than Dunn next year. I agree that he will likely eventually be the better overall player, but you have to remember he is only 20 years old. You can't expect a kid that young to come in and be the savior of the team (see Bailey, Homer).

[Scotty doesn't know]

What is position hitting? :confused:

Anyway, Bruce would not be more productive than Dunn next year. I agree that he will likely eventually be the better overall player, but you have to remember he is only 20 years old. You can't expect a kid that young to come in and be the savior of the team (see Bailey, Homer).

I know I was using the wrong term. I just can't think of it tonight for some reason......I will sound like an idiot. For instance like when you mentioned that he just has to get a player at third in with a sac fly that would be called _______hitting? Lol I am sorry man.

I don't expect him to be the savior or anything just a more productive player than Dunner, defensively and offensively. I don't expect for him to chance the hitting on the team how Homer Bailey was looked to to solidify the pitching staff

[More Cowbell]

I know I was using the wrong term. I just can't think of it tonight for some reason......I will sound like an idiot. For instance like when you mentioned that he just has to get a player at third in with a sac fly that would be called _______hitting? Lol I am sorry man.

I don't expect him to be the savior or anything just a more productive player than Dunner, defensively and offensively. I don't expect for him to chance the hitting on the team how Homer Bailey was looked to to solidify the pitching staff

OK, I know what you mean now. I think the term you were looking for is situational hitting, which could also include hitting the ball to the right side to get a guy from 2nd to 3rd with less than two outs.

I still say you can't expect him to be more productive than Dunn at such a young age. Look back up a couple posts at Dunn's stats for the year. Do you really think Bruce would put up those kind of numbers in his first year? Eventually, yes. Next year, no.

[Scotty doesn't know]

OK, I know what you mean now. I think the term you were looking for is situational hitting, which could also include hitting the ball to the right side to get a guy from 2nd to 3rd with less than two outs.

I still say you can't expect him to be more productive than Dunn at such a young age. Look back up a couple posts at Dunn's stats for the year. Do you really think Bruce would put up those kind of numbers in his first year? Eventually, yes. Next year, no.

Thanks for the help BTW! I don't really expect him to produce in the same manner as Dunn. I don't expect that amount or even near the amount of homers but better "situational hitting" and defense. Man, it absolutely pains me to see Dunn in the outfield. It is not the MAIN reason but it contributes to reasons. He has LOST MULTIPLE games because of his slow, stupid defensive tatics. He does deserve the credit for the home runs and RBIs but the team needs to build for the future by bringing Bruce to that position and letting him start making those different contributions to the team that Dunn fails to do.

To wrap up. I say Dunn should leave in the offseason (money) and Bruce should begin his learning.

[More Cowbell]

Thanks for the help BTW! I don't really expect him to produce in the same manner as Dunn. I don't expect that amount or even near the amount of homers but better "situational hitting" and defense. Man, it absolutely pains me to see Dunn in the outfield. It is not the MAIN reason but it contributes to reasons. He has LOST MULTIPLE games because of his slow, stupid defensive tatics. He does deserve the credit for the home runs and RBIs but the team needs to build for the future by bringing Bruce to that position and letting him start making those different contributions to the team that Dunn fails to do.

To wrap up. I say Dunn should leave in the offseason (money) and Bruce should begin his learning.

See, I'm still not convinced Bruce wouldn't be better off learning in Louisville next year. He has certainly torn up AAA pitching so far, but what happens if those pitchers figure him out? He will have to show that he can make adjustments as well.

Trust me, I'm as excited about Bruce as anyone, but I want him up when he will make the club better, and I'm not sure that'll be next year.

[Scotty doesn't know]

See, I'm still not convinced Bruce wouldn't be better off learning in Louisville next year. He has certainly torn up AAA pitching so far, but what happens if those pitchers figure him out? He will have to show that he can make adjustments as well.

Trust me, I'm as excited about Bruce as anyone, but I want him up when he will make the club better, and I'm not sure that'll be next year.

Well answer me this. What do you think is going to happen to Dunn over the offseason? I may be judging based on what I think will happen in the offseason which IMO is the best thing for the organization.

[More Cowbell]

And I'm not convinced that letting Dunn go by not picking up his option is the right thing to do, either. When you look at what other power hitters are making across MLB, 13 mill isn't too bad a figure.

I may be in the minority, but I hope they do pick up his option for next year. If they weren't planning on doing that, there was absolutely no reason not to trade him back before the deadline. If you're only going to have him another 2 months in a season that's already lost, trade him for whatever you can get.

[Scotty doesn't know]

And I'm not convinced that letting Dunn go by not picking up his option is the right thing to do, either. When you look at what other power hitters are making across MLB, 13 mill isn't too bad a figure.

I may be in the minority, but I hope they do pick up his option for next year. If they weren't planning on doing that, there was absolutely no reason not to trade him back before the deadline. If you're only going to have him another 2 months in a season that's already lost, trade him for whatever you can get.

I see your stance about Dunn. I just don't know if we pay him that much, if he will give the team their moneys worth. Do you think so?

[More Cowbell]

I see your stance about Dunn. I just don't know if we pay him that much, if he will give the team their moneys worth. Do you think so?

I don't believe that the team would be able to take that 13 million and get a comparable, much less better, hitter on the winter free-agent market. So, in that sense he may be worth the money.

Sorry to go off-topic, but when you think about it, are any pro sports players worth the kind of money they make?

[Scotty doesn't know]

I don't believe that the team would be able to take that 13 million and get a comparable, much less better, hitter on the winter free-agent market. So, in that sense he may be worth the money.

Sorry to go off-topic, but when you think about it, are any pro sports players worth the kind of money they make?

IMO I can't believe that these players get payed this much to something that is considered a recreation lol so that gets a big no in my book.
Sorry to stop the good flow to the conversation but dude it is late and I have to work tomorrow so I will have to take a raincheck on this little discussion! lol

[More Cowbell]

I don't have an actual trade to report yet, but according to ESPN.com Jeff Conine has cleared waivers, meaning he can still be traded by August 31. Scott Hatteberg, however, did not clear, and the team pulled him back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/st...id=2976815

I really hope Conine gets traded to a contender, even if it's just for cash or 'future considerations'. He deserves the chance to play in a pennant chase again before he retires, and he isn't doing anything in Cincinnati other than blocking guys like Votto and Cantu from getting to show what they can do.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I don't have an actual trade to report yet, but according to ESPN.com Jeff Conine has cleared waivers, meaning he can still be traded by August 31. Scott Hatteberg, however, did not clear, and the team pulled him back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/st...id=2976815

I really hope Conine gets traded to a contender, even if it's just for cash or 'future considerations'. He deserves the chance to play in a pennant chase again before he retires, and he isn't doing anything in Cincinnati other than blocking guys like Votto and Cantu from getting to show what they can do.

I agree. It was a reasonable move at the beginning of the year but by now I think it was be the best situation for Conine to go to a different team.

[More Cowbell]

Well, the Reds have finally pulled the trigger on a trade I've been calling for. In what seems to be a no-brainer, Jeff Conine has been traded to the New York Mets for 2 minor leaguers. Although he apparently still plans to retire after this season, he now will get the chance to play in one last World Series.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/pres...p&c_id=cin

The two minor leaguers obtained are SS Jose Castro and OF Sean Henry, both of whom will report to Double-A Chattanooga.

To take Conine's roster spot the team will call up Jorge Cantu, who had been acquired 3 weeks ago from Tampa Bay. I would assume he will also take on Conine's role as the right-handed half of a 1B platoon with Scott Hatteberg. Cantu had played well at Louisville, hitting .309 with 2 HR and 13 RBI in 24 games.

[Scotty doesn't know]

I am glad to this take place for Conine. He deserved to have one last chance to get to the world series.

[Fenix]

Conine is a class guy and a good hitter. I'm glad to see him get one last chance.

[jammin' jamey]

Good for Conine. Solid player and excellent clubhouse guy. He deserves to go out a winner. Always liked him with the Marlins back in the day.

Cantu got a hit in his first (and only) AB for the Reds last night. Hopefully, he'll turn the corner.

[jammin' jamey]

The Phil Dumatrait experiment is over. He was sent to Louisville today after another horrible start. The Reds have brought back Kirk Saarloos. Hopefully, Saarloos can at least get someone out. Last time up, he failed to retire the last 10 hitters he faced and according to the Reds, he will not be starting.

Victor Santos has also been sent to Louisville and cleared waivers. I'm hoping that the Reds run out Johnny Cueto Saturday in the rotation. Cueto is at Chattanooga, but has been at Louisville this season with success and the Reds are high on him. Matt Belisle is also at Louisville and may be brought back to spot start.

[More Cowbell]

The Phil Dumatrait experiment is over. He was sent to Louisville today after another horrible start. The Reds have brought back Kirk Saarloos. Hopefully, Saarloos can at least get someone out. Last time up, he failed to retire the last 10 hitters he faced and according to the Reds, he will not be starting.

Victor Santos has also been sent to Louisville and cleared waivers. I'm hoping that the Reds run out Johnny Cueto Saturday in the rotation. Cueto is at Chattanooga, but has been at Louisville this season with success and the Reds are high on him. Matt Belisle is also at Louisville and may be brought back to spot start.

Poor Dumatrait. I honestly felt sorry for him last night, it seemed like he had no clue how to get major-league hitters out. Hopefully he will go down to Louisville and learn some kind of out pitch.

As far as Saturday, my money would be on Belisle. He has been down the required number of days and I think he would be the best choice. I am also very high on Cueto, but I'm quite not sure he's ready for the big time yet. He's barely been at Louisville very long.

On a side note, I wonder what the situation is with Bailey and his groin pull? It sure seems like he's been out a long time.

[jammin' jamey]

On a side note, I wonder what the situation is with Bailey and his groin pull? It sure seems like he's been out a long time.

Don't be surprised if you see Bailey shut it down for the year. When he's healthy, he's on and will be a major part of the Reds next season. Why push him like the Cubs did Wood and Prior?

[More Cowbell]

Don't be surprised if you see Bailey shut it down for the year. When he's healthy, he's on and will be a major part of the Reds next season. Why push him like the Cubs did Wood and Prior?

Looks like he may not be ready to shut it down yet. The Post reported that Bailey will make a rehab start for Sarasota on Friday. I hope this means he is healing well, I would love to see him get back to Cincy and show everyone he is ok.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...708220325/

Also, it appears that Belisle is the likely choice to start Saturday in Dumatrait's spot. John Fay reported in his blog that Belisle had been slated to start the first game of a doubleheader for Louisville today, but did not pitch. Sounds like they are holding him for this weekend.

[jammin' jamey]

Looks like he may not be ready to shut it down yet. The Post reported that Bailey will make a rehab start for Sarasota on Friday. I hope this means he is healing well, I would love to see him get back to Cincy and show everyone he is ok.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...708220325/

Also, it appears that Belisle is the likely choice to start Saturday in Dumatrait's spot. John Fay reported in his blog that Belisle had been slated to start the first game of a doubleheader for Louisville today, but did not pitch. Sounds like they are holding him for this weekend.

:rockon: Belisle seems to be the consensus...I hope they don't push Bailey because his groin problem has hindered him since May I believe. He was on the DL once before at Louisville because of his groin before he was called up to the Reds.