[rallo316]

i am for it everyone has stated the reasoning already bottom line is no coal no power i worked in the mines at dorton,ky 4 years and we kept Gainsville,Florida and East Lansing, Michigan going if i was still working there i believe i would cut them off for beating UK ha ha!

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

My dad always said before he died that whoever was against coal mining should freeze to death in the dark LOL!

[RavenBoy]

Wind is the new power!

[ComfortEagle]

Wind is the new power!

Lol, I'm pretty sure wind isn't "new"

[TidesHoss32]

thats funny CE, lol...

Lol, I'm pretty sure wind isn't "new"

[cig107]

Wind is the new power!

HAHA, wind will never be able to power the country...what kind of "new" wind is it? lol

[DevilsWin]

No, I am against Mountaintop removal though.

[TidesHoss32]

you still work in the mines Rallo??

i am for it everyone has stated the reasoning already bottom line is no coal no power i worked in the mines at dorton,ky 4 years and we kept Gainsville,Florida and East Lansing, Michigan going if i was still working there i believe i would cut them off for beating UK ha ha!

[Kentucky97]

How could anyone in this area be against it It puts food on our table and runs this country.

[Coach_Owens87]

How could anyone in this area be against it It puts food on our table and runs this country.

Well I can give you some reasons, MTR is destoring our land, polluting our water, and killing off all of our animal species, by 2010 60% of all native fish in ky will be gone. For the person who said if it wasn't for mining Ky and WV wouldn't be on the map, just to let you know, Tourism brings in more money in WV than mining.

Now before everyone gets all upset, I'm not against mining in general, basically all the males in my family work in the mines. And not just this generation, I had several grandfathers, great uncles and so on work in the mines. Ive lost a grandfather, and 2 cousins in mining accidents, so my family is deeply rooted in mining. I know coal allows me to type this message, but we need to find a better way to extract it. MTR only accounts for 5% of the national coal production, but that 5% is taking away everything that makes this area special, our natural beauty.

[Old School]

On June 13, 2007 Judge Chambers outlawed the construction and use of sediment ponds on mining operations, (sediment ponds have been used in mining operations for over thirty years) this is part of a lawsuit brought on by environmental groups in West Virginia. These ponds are constructed downstream of hollow fills so when water flows from a mining operation to the pond, where the solids in the water (mainly during a rain storm) are able to settle into the bottom of the pond and not enter the stream. When the sediment in the pond reaches about 50% of the ponds capacity, the pond is then cleaned out to allow for more sediment to settle into the pond.

Since both surface and underground mining operations use sediment ponds, this ruling will effect both, and if is ruling is not overturned, it could devastate the mining industry. Check out the story below.



http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/2007061320

[RavenBoy]

Lol, I'm pretty sure wind isn't "new"

Good one *edited for content*

[thetribe]

He made a better point than you did.

Not only is name calling immature, but you don't need to be cursing on the boards.

[RavenBoy]

He made a better point than you did.

Not only is name calling immature, but you don't need to be cursing on the boards.

I wasn't saying that Wind is brand new, Coal is the leading source of power right now and I was saying Wind will be the New Power, *edited for content*

[Coach_Owens87]

On June 13, 2007 Judge Chambers outlawed the construction and use of sediment ponds on mining operations, (sediment ponds have been used in mining operations for over thirty years) this is part of a lawsuit brought on by environmental groups in West Virginia. These ponds are constructed downstream of hollow fills so when water flows from a mining operation to the pond, where the solids in the water (mainly during a rain storm) are able to settle into the bottom of the pond and not enter the stream. When the sediment in the pond reaches about 50% of the ponds capacity, the pond is then cleaned out to allow for more sediment to settle into the pond.

Since both surface and underground mining operations use sediment ponds, this ruling will effect both, and if is ruling is not overturned, it could devastate the mining industry. Check out the story below.



http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/2007061320

I really like this Judge Chambers, he doesn't back down from the rich and powerful coal companies. These slurry lakes and ponds have been breaking the rules set fourth by the clean water act for years, but no one has enforced it. The bad thing is the "clean coal" oxymoron, and the clean air act that where supposed to protect the planet but all they have done is increase the use of slurry ponds to hold the sludge from cleaning the coal.

We need to shift our attention towards cleaner, renewable energies anyway, maybe this will be a slight push to get to that point quicker.

And as far as the major blow to coal companies, they have been breaking laws and making millions for years, they're a ingenious industry, they can find a way to move on, while protecting the envioronment.

[Old School]

I really like this Judge Chambers, he doesn't back down from the rich and powerful coal companies. These slurry lakes and ponds have been breaking the rules set fourth by the clean water act for years, but no one has enforced it. The bad thing is the "clean coal" oxymoron, and the clean air act that where supposed to protect the planet but all they have done is increase the use of slurry ponds to hold the sludge from cleaning the coal.

We need to shift our attention towards cleaner, renewable energies anyway, maybe this will be a slight push to get to that point quicker.

And as far as the major blow to coal companies, they have been breaking laws and making millions for years, they're a ingenious industry, they can find a way to move on, while protecting the envioronment.

If this ruling stands it will be a major blow to both surface and underground mining, I agree that coal mining is a ingenious industry, but this could be the straw that borke the back of coal mining and if this rule stands in West Virginia it only be a short time before it is enforced everywhere. Everyone needs to keep in mind that these sediment ponds do more than anything else to protect the streams below the mining operations. If the coal industry by some chance was to come up with a alterative method envioronmentalist would still complain and try to shut down coal mining.

[TidesHoss32]

Thats scary. Thats exactly what that is. We can only hope that by some chance it gets overturned in West Virginia before that noise gets to Kentucky. Yes its an ingenious industry, but its been an industry thats allowed thousands and thousands of families to survive, mine included.

If this ruling stands it will be a major blow to both surface and underground mining, I agree that coal mining is a ingenious industry, but this could be the straw that borke the back of coal mining and if this rule stands in West Virginia it only be a short time before it is enforced everywhere. Everyone needs to keep in mind that these sediment ponds do more than anything else to protect the streams below the mining operations. If the coal industry by some chance was to come up with a alterative method envioronmentalist would still complain and try to shut down coal mining.

[ComfortEagle]

I wasn't saying that Wind is brand new, Coal is the leading source of power right now and I was saying Wind will be the New Power, *edited for content*

And I was being sarcastic. Get over it. Oh, and be sure to let me know when this new wind power will take over the world, lol.

[TATE_64]

I'm all for it, That all my family has known and I drive a coal truck.... I am for all types of mining....

[DevilsWin]

If this ruling stands it will be a major blow to both surface and underground mining, I agree that coal mining is a ingenious industry, but this could be the straw that borke the back of coal mining and if this rule stands in West Virginia it only be a short time before it is enforced everywhere. Everyone needs to keep in mind that these sediment ponds do more than anything else to protect the streams below the mining operations. If the coal industry by some chance was to come up with a alterative method envioronmentalist would still complain and try to shut down coal mining.

Has everyone already forgot about the slurry spill a couple of years ago and what it did to the Big Sandy and Tug Fork? I believe it was officially the 2nd worst environmental disaster in US history. It never got the national attention it deserved because it was in Appalachia.

[NEXT]

Well I can give you some reasons, MTR is destoring our land, polluting our water, and killing off all of our animal species, by 2010 60% of all native fish in ky will be gone. For the person who said if it wasn't for mining Ky and WV wouldn't be on the map, just to let you know, Tourism brings in more money in WV than mining.

Now before everyone gets all upset, I'm not against mining in general, basically all the males in my family work in the mines. And not just this generation, I had several grandfathers, great uncles and so on work in the mines. Ive lost a grandfather, and 2 cousins in mining accidents, so my family is deeply rooted in mining. I know coal allows me to type this message, but we need to find a better way to extract it. MTR only accounts for 5% of the national coal production, but that 5% is taking away everything that makes this area special, our natural beauty.

Just to let you know coal is a little over 60% of WV's economy

[Old School]

Has everyone already forgot about the slurry spill a couple of years ago and what it did to the Big Sandy and Tug Fork? I believe it was officially the 2nd worst environmental disaster in US history. It never got the national attention it deserved because it was in Appalachia.

Sediment ponds and Slurry ponds are two completely different structures, first a sediment pond controls surface water (during a rain/snow event) and varies in size anywhere from one-tenth of acre to generally not more than one-third of a acre, the storage capacity of each sediment pond is designed for the water shed that it will control.

A Slurry pond is a much larger structure that is designed to hold coal fines. The size of Slurry Impoundments vary and are usually based on topography and the companies estimated reserve area. The slurry spill you referred to in Martin County was caused by inaccurate underground mine mapping, the roof of the un-mapped portion of the underground mine below the impoundment collapsed creating a void in the bottom of the slurry impoundment and letting the water to drain into the underground mine and out of the mine portals. Federal law now requires that underground mines maintain a certain distance from impoundments or impoundments cannot be built within a certain distance of underground mine works.

As far as the Martin County spill not getting national attention, I was in Florida the day the of the spill and I heard about it on the radio. Local and network news programs covered this for a long time.

[Coach_Owens87]

Sediment ponds and Slurry ponds are two completely different structures, first a sediment pond controls surface water (during a rain/snow event) and varies in size anywhere from one-tenth of acre to generally not more than one-third of a acre, the storage capacity of each sediment pond is designed for the water shed that it will control.

A Slurry pond is a much larger structure that is designed to hold coal fines. The size of Slurry Impoundments vary and are usually based on topography and the companies estimated reserve area. The slurry spill you referred to in Martin County was caused by inaccurate underground mine mapping, the roof of the un-mapped portion of the underground mine below the impoundment collapsed creating a void in the bottom of the slurry impoundment and letting the water to drain into the underground mine and out of the mine portals. Federal law now requires that underground mines maintain a certain distance from impoundments or impoundments cannot be built within a certain distance of underground mine works.

As far as the Martin County spill not getting national attention, I was in Florida the day the of the spill and I heard about it on the radio. Local and network news programs covered this for a long time.

I'm so happy that finally someone in standing up against these coal companies and their illegal practices. The people in the coal industry try to throw out false "facts" and say they are helping the people of this region. It's just not true, the environmental damage caused by MTR is immeasurable, we're just now starting to see some major effects of old abandoned undergound mines as they leak out coal waste. This is contaminating our water and killing off native fish species at an alarming rate. Imagine what this region will be like when the effects of MTR really start to show.
As far as the coverage of the martin county incident, it did get coverage , but not the mass national coverage that would be expected from such a huge environmental disaster. The spill put 300 million gallons of coal waste, which included water, coal, and the chemicals used to clean it for sell into the market, into the big sandy river. The Exxon-Valdez spill, in which 10 million gallons of oil was spilled, got way more national coverage. Just google it, the Exxon spill gives 580,000 hits, The martin county spill, which was 30 times larger, barely musters 50,000 hits. So to say the event was covered is a joke, it was just a small story mentioned between the "real" headlines.

[TidesHoss32]

I have got the perfect solution. Ive read and read everything you post and your completely biased view on coalmining. Why not pull every single miner from underground, away from the strip mines, and pay each of them $58,000 a year to clean the streams, feed the animals, and plant some friggin trees on those mountain tops that every one of you environmentalists cry about. Yes these jobs arent the most friendly for our environment, but you all will never mention the fact that hundreds of thousands of men have fed their familes (which will never sink in to you people). And those appalshop idiots, the ones that hate our law, government, our president, who cry and complain that our government cant do anything right (ring a bell?), with those pathetic "I went to the mountaintop..and it wasnt there" bumper stickers on thier cars, can have your damn mountaintops. So go ahead, shut it all down. And after about two months, when your power bill for your 800 square foot house is $3900 a month, dont go screaming that "you all need to do something! This is ridiculous!".. And dont give anybody your "tourism brings in more money than mining" garbage either. Tourism dont keep the lights on, pal. Tourism dont keep your kids cool in 96 degree weather. Yeah, tourism might just bring in more money, but stop mining and see how far tourism will carry your sorry argument. You say coal has been a huge part of your family, and your upbringing. Well, while your biting the hand thats fed you, others, like myself are appreciative of the fact that coal has fed our families, including mine.

I'm so happy that finally someone in standing up against these coal companies and their illegal practices. The people in the coal industry try to throw out false "facts" and say they are helping the people of this region. It's just not true, the environmental damage caused by MTR is immeasurable, we're just now starting to see some major effects of old abandoned undergound mines as they leak out coal waste. This is contaminating our water and killing off native fish species at an alarming rate. Imagine what this region will be like when the effects of MTR really start to show.
As far as the coverage of the martin county incident, it did get coverage , but not the mass national coverage that would be expected from such a huge environmental disaster. The spill put 300 million gallons of coal waste, which included water, coal, and the chemicals used to clean it for sell into the market, into the big sandy river. The Exxon-Valdez spill, in which 10 million gallons of oil was spilled, got way more national coverage. Just google it, the Exxon spill gives 580,000 hits, The martin county spill, which was 30 times larger, barely musters 50,000 hits. So to say the event was covered is a joke, it was just a small story mentioned between the "real" headlines.

[Coach_Owens87]

I have got the perfect solution. Ive read and read everything you post and your completely biased view on coalmining. Why not pull every single miner from underground, away from the strip mines, and pay each of them $58,000 a year to clean the streams, feed the animals, and plant some friggin trees on those mountain tops that every one of you environmentalists cry about. Yes these jobs arent the most friendly for our environment, but you all will never mention the fact that hundreds of thousands of men have fed their familes (which will never sink in to you people). And those appalshop idiots, the ones that hate our law, government, our president, who cry and complain that our government cant do anything right (ring a bell?), with those pathetic "I went to the mountaintop..and it wasnt there" bumper stickers on thier cars, can have your damn mountaintops. So go ahead, shut it all down. And after about two months, when your power bill for your 800 square foot house is $3900 a month, dont go screaming that "you all need to do something! This is ridiculous!".. And dont give anybody your "tourism brings in more money than mining" garbage either. Tourism dont keep the lights on, pal. Tourism dont keep your kids cool in 96 degree weather. Yeah, tourism might just bring in more money, but stop mining and see how far tourism will carry your sorry argument. You say coal has been a huge part of your family, and your upbringing. Well, while your biting the hand thats fed you, others, like myself are appreciative of the fact that coal has fed our families, including mine.

Why are you calling me biased for stating my opinion, when you're being very biased yourself. You gave your fair share of "bumper sticker" slogans. "Coal keeps the lights on" "Coal feeds my family", come on, don't bash for doing something and then do it yourself. And why get so angry, I never said we should take all jobs away from miners, Strip mining has taken more jobs from miners than any environmental group has.
All your statement showed is that your biased, not once did you try to present facts, all you gave where overused prejudice statements like "environmentalist hate the government, and the law, and our president." I will admit that I strongly dislike our president, but I dislike him for more reasons than his environmental views. And I really want you to explain to me how I hate our laws, when I'm trying to get coal mining companies to obey them?

Yes Coal gives men in this area jobs, but not as many as you claim, on average there is only 123 miners per county in eastern Kentucky, thats not a significant number.

Your statement that "tourism doesn't keep the lights on" is just funny, you don't have anything knowledgeable to say, so you just give me an overused statement. I'm not saying we should stop all mining tomorrow, we just need to control the outrageous destruction caused by MTR. Coal is not the only energy source, and it's not going to last forever, we need to prepare for the future, there are other energy sources. (we can never run out of energy, its impossible, but coal will run out.) Until we can have other energy sources available, coal is the best option, but I believe we can mine the coal in a more environmentally friendly way. Remember we all share the same planet.

It's people like you who refuse to see the truth. I oppose strip mining, not miners. I oppose power greedy energy companies, not hard working Appalachian people. I don't believe that it's right for us to sit around and watch our home be destroyed.
Eastern Kentucky is among the poorest regions in the country, but listening to you, someone would never know that. I know you wont believe it , but mining is not our savior.The Appalachian region is the most ecologically diverse region in North America, all I wont to do is to protect it. I want to save this area for future generations to enjoy, I want to save our culture, I want to save everything that makes this area special. It's just sad that people like you claim to love this region, but you wont do anything to stop companies from taking away everything that makes it so special.

I am not biting the hand that feeds me, I'm trying to extend a hand to the future generations.

[TidesHoss32]

ok, an average of 123 miners per county in Eastern Kentucky. Take those jobs away from them, and Eastern Kentucky has NOTHING to fall back on. Yes Im biased. Im all for mining. And yes, you are EXACTLY right, that Eastern Kentucky is one of the poorest regions in the entire country, so why bash one of the very few jobs where someone can make a decent living at? You can pull this "you dont have any facts, you arent nearly as knowledgable as me" shit all you want, but its this crazy world you all live in that allows you to believe that theres going to be ANYTHING at all here IF you people get your way. I dont use facts, I use common sense. No 123 per county ISNT a significant number, but you take half those away, and thats over 60 starving familes. But hey, your friggin trees will be safe. Ill bet you'll be tickled pink going to bed knowing that. Yeah, stick it to those "horrible coal industries. Those law breaking greedy bastards.............that feeds familes". OK, point of it all is this..You say we need to prepare for the future. How? You say there are alternative energy sources, and that we'll never run out of energy, which is true. NOW, tell me, until those sources are prevalent in this area, what should they do without mining? How will they get the money to use those alternative energy sources around this area? And what alternative energy sources would work not only around here, but for the entire country? Because coal makes up 52% of our nations power. Of which Im sure your well aware. You say theres no such thing as clean coal, that its an oxymoron. You say you love those that stand up to the coal operators. Yet you even admit that coal is our best option. What the hell do you want them to do? You want them to mine cleaner? Ill bet you want 200mph sports cars to get 60 miles per gallon to dont you? Yeah, we all oppose greedy power companies, who doesnt? You say that I may not realize it but coal is not our savior, but right now, IT IS. Until our "smarter generation" comes up with ways that our region can make a decent living, IT IS the only hope for many families to make ends meet. And explain to me how you'd mine coal cleaner? You say we are a smarter generation, which I still believe is crap, by the way. Our generation is a wasteful generation. Our generation is lazy and selfish. And I do love this area, but like I said, when Im getting paid $58,000 a year to plant trees, stock streams, and bitch about coal companies, Ill stop mining. Until then, mining IS my savior. As its been for our family for over 100 years. And Im not angry. Im realistic.

Why are you calling me biased for stating my opinion, when you're being very biased yourself. You gave your fair share of "bumper sticker" slogans. "Coal keeps the lights on" "Coal feeds my family", come on, don't bash for doing something and then do it yourself. And why get so angry, I never said we should take all jobs away from miners, Strip mining has taken more jobs from miners than any environmental group has.
All your statement showed is that your biased, not once did you try to present facts, all you gave where overused prejudice statements like "environmentalist hate the government, and the law, and our president." I will admit that I strongly dislike our president, but I dislike him for more reasons than his environmental views. And I really want you to explain to me how I hate our laws, when I'm trying to get coal mining companies to obey them?

Yes Coal gives men in this area jobs, but not as many as you claim, on average there is only 123 miners per county in eastern Kentucky, thats not a significant number.

Your statement that "tourism doesn't keep the lights on" is just funny, you don't have anything knowledgeable to say, so you just give me an overused statement. I'm not saying we should stop all mining tomorrow, we just need to control the outrageous destruction caused by MTR. Coal is not the only energy source, and it's not going to last forever, we need to prepare for the future, there are other energy sources. (we can never run out of energy, its impossible, but coal will run out.) Until we can have other energy sources available, coal is the best option, but I believe we can mine the coal in a more environmentally friendly way. Remember we all share the same planet.

It's people like you who refuse to see the truth. I oppose strip mining, not miners. I oppose power greedy energy companies, not hard working Appalachian people. I don't believe that it's right for us to sit around and watch our home be destroyed.
Eastern Kentucky is among the poorest regions in the country, but listening to you, someone would never know that. I know you wont believe it , but mining is not our savior.The Appalachian region is the most ecologically diverse region in North America, all I wont to do is to protect it. I want to save this area for future generations to enjoy, I want to save our culture, I want to save everything that makes this area special. It's just sad that people like you claim to love this region, but you wont do anything to stop companies from taking away everything that makes it so special.

I am not biting the hand that feeds me, I'm trying to extend a hand to the future generations.

[Playboy5]

Very Well Put TH32! I don't think there is anything else that I could have agreed with anymore than what you wrote! It is the way it is right now. No other options available. Talk about unemployment and poverty.....IMAGINE IF WE DIDN'T HAVE COAL MINING IN EASTERN KENTUCKY! But hey, as long as the tree count is up, that means there will be pieces of paper for my children and there children and there children! Give me one tree to block the sun from my house and i will be happy! Don't really see a need for them any other way! Slap the mountains down and get us some businesses in here!

[Old School]

OK, point of it all is this..You say we need to prepare for the future. How? You say there are alternative energy sources, and that we'll never run out of energy, which is true. NOW, tell me, until those sources are prevalent in this area, what should they do without mining? How will they get the money to use those alternative energy sources around this area? And what alternative energy sources would work not only around here, but for the entire country? Because coal makes up 52% of our nations power. Of which Im sure your well aware. You say theres no such thing as clean coal, that its an oxymoron. You say you love those that stand up to the coal operators. Yet you even admit that coal is our best option. What the hell do you want them to do? You want them to mine cleaner? Ill bet you want 200mph sports cars to get 60 miles per gallon to dont you? Yeah, we all oppose greedy power companies, who doesnt? You say that I may not realize it but coal is not our savior, but right now, IT IS. Until our "smarter generation" comes up with ways that our region can make a decent living, IT IS the only hope for many families to make ends meet. And explain to me how you'd mine coal cleaner? You say we are a smarter generation, which I still believe is crap, by the way. Our generation is a wasteful generation. Our generation is lazy and selfish. And I do love this area, but like I said, when Im getting paid $58,000 a year to plant trees, stock streams, and bitch about coal companies, Ill stop mining. Until then, mining IS my savior. As its been for our family for over 100 years. And Im not angry. Im realistic.

TidesHoss32, that's one point I've been trying to get across, why are they trying to shut down coal mining when there is no alternative energy scource ready to replace coal. I know most of the environmentalist will say that they are only against surface mining, but that is simply not true, they want to shut down the mining industry altogether, just look at all the current court cases against coal mining today. These pending cases effect both underground and surface mines. If I were a environmentalist I think it would be logical to develop a alterntive engery that could replace the electricity produced by coal first, then try to shut down the coal industry. That's just my opinion, I guess that's why they won't play with any of the environmental groups

[Coach_Owens87]

ok, an average of 123 miners per county in Eastern Kentucky. Take those jobs away from them, and Eastern Kentucky has NOTHING to fall back on. Yes Im biased. Im all for mining. And yes, you are EXACTLY right, that Eastern Kentucky is one of the poorest regions in the entire country, so why bash one of the very few jobs where someone can make a decent living at? You can pull this "you dont have any facts, you arent nearly as knowledgable as me" shit all you want, but its this crazy world you all live in that allows you to believe that theres going to be ANYTHING at all here IF you people get your way. I dont use facts, I use common sense. No 123 per county ISNT a significant number, but you take half those away, and thats over 60 starving familes. But hey, your friggin trees will be safe. Ill bet you'll be tickled pink going to bed knowing that. Yeah, stick it to those "horrible coal industries. Those law breaking greedy bastards.............that feeds familes". OK, point of it all is this..You say we need to prepare for the future. How? You say there are alternative energy sources, and that we'll never run out of energy, which is true. NOW, tell me, until those sources are prevalent in this area, what should they do without mining? How will they get the money to use those alternative energy sources around this area? And what alternative energy sources would work not only around here, but for the entire country? Because coal makes up 52% of our nations power. Of which Im sure your well aware. You say theres no such thing as clean coal, that its an oxymoron. You say you love those that stand up to the coal operators. Yet you even admit that coal is our best option. What the hell do you want them to do? You want them to mine cleaner? Ill bet you want 200mph sports cars to get 60 miles per gallon to dont you? Yeah, we all oppose greedy power companies, who doesnt? You say that I may not realize it but coal is not our savior, but right now, IT IS. Until our "smarter generation" comes up with ways that our region can make a decent living, IT IS the only hope for many families to make ends meet. And explain to me how you'd mine coal cleaner? You say we are a smarter generation, which I still believe is crap, by the way. Our generation is a wasteful generation. Our generation is lazy and selfish. And I do love this area, but like I said, when Im getting paid $58,000 a year to plant trees, stock streams, and bitch about coal companies, Ill stop mining. Until then, mining IS my savior. As its been for our family for over 100 years. And Im not angry. Im realistic.

Tidehoss, you still didn't prove anything beyond the point that you are ANGRY and baised. All you are thinking of is the NOW, and yourself. I totally agree with a lot of what you said. Yes this generation is greedy, wasteful, and lazy, which is big reason for why we are in such an energy mess at the moment. To answer your idiotic question " would I want a sports car that went 200 mph and and got 60 MPG", I sure as hell would, as long as it ran on "green" fuel. lol, youre actually funny, you spent so much of your time to write that long reply, and you told me absoultely nothing. You just keep repeating yourself. All you MTR supporters keep saying the same thing, you all use the same old worn out slogans.
All you have said this whole time is "take coal away and we have nothing". Where did I ever say to take coal away, all I want is to stop the destruction of Appalachia until a better source of energy can be ready for mass consumption. You're whole argument lies on the theory that without coal we have nothing, I want to know why people think that? Are we so dumb and dependent, that we cant find nothing else to do besides mine? Or do people believe that coal is our "savior" because we were feared into thinking that? People of this region are repeatedly told we have nothing without coal. Thats totally absurd. We have the ability to build an economy without coal, tourism could be a start, but no one wants to see flat mountains.

You're whole argument is actually absurd, yes I know that your job feeds your family, so what, every person that has a job relies on that to feed their family.
I'm sure you are a hard working man, just like the dozens of family members I have that work in the mines. But things are different now, it takes a handful of men to do the job that hundreds used to do. Coal is not our savior right now, were one of the poorest regions in the country, our unemployment rate has been the same for the last 30 years, and the future doesn't look any brighter, how is that a savior?


Now to the points you made, the big reason other energy sources aren't being used, or being further researched in this area is because of the greedy oil and coal companies. Too much money is being made to get away from mining. It's that simple. Now you agree that Appalachia is one of the poorest regions in the country, and you know exactly why that is, It's mining. There aren't any other job opportunites here because we don't have the trained workers to do them, most people who get an education move away from here to get jobs, including me. The average age of a coal miner is 55, which shows that young people arent working in the mines, and since you claim mining is our "savior" what happens when all those workers retire, there wont be anyone to work in the mines. We need to get better jobs in this area, which wont happen until MTR practices are controlled.

I'm currently in pre-med, I would love to come back to this area and work, and with the way mining is going I would never be out of work, our streams and air are polluted, so I would have a constant stream of sick patients. Just to let you know 6 counties in eastern Ky rank in the top ten nationally in lung cancer, children here are 50% more likely to get asthma, and mothers are more likely to have birth defects, and why is all of this happening, it's because these "great" coal companies are polluting Appalachia. I ask a lot of people to do this, and I would guess that very few do, but I will ask again, go look at google earth and view the destruction.

The point im trying to make is that MTR needs to be controlled and stopped, yes as of right now we need the coal, but there has got to be a better way, MTR takes away jobs, and destroys our environment, and is rapidly destroying our culture. You admitted that you dont use facts, and that you think from the "gut, which shows that you don't know what you're talking about, all you're doing is trying to protect your job, which I completely understand. I know that a lot of people here wont listen to me, a lot of people will write me off as some crazy "tree hugger", which is fine with me. There is a group that sides with me, and it's a rapidly growing group of people just like you, people who want better for this region. this earth is god given, and all im trying to do is protect it and it's inhabitants.

Now I didn't put a lot of facts into this argument, but I do know what I'm talking about, anytime you want to debate over the practice of MTR just ask. The bad totally outweighs the good in the case of MTR, I can give you thousands of incidents, and stats on just how MTR is destroying this region. MTR is accountably for floods, mudslides, contaminated water, and many other things. The property value of a home near a mine site drops on average by 90%, most people here have very little, and their home is their only possession, imagine how they feel when the lose all the have. Here is one you can probably understand, and it should hit home, Mining jobs have decreased by over 50% since 1970, thats when MTR really started. Is that the great job maker coal claims to be?

[Old School]

We have the ability to build an economy without coal, tourism could be a start, but no one wants to see flat mountains.

But things are different now, it takes a handful of men to do the job that hundreds used to do. Coal is not our savior right now, were one of the poorest regions in the country, our unemployment rate has been the same for the last 30 years, and the future doesn't look any brighter, how is that a savior?


Now to the points you made, the big reason other energy sources aren't being used, or being further researched in this area is because of the greedy oil and coal companies. Too much money is being made to get away from mining. It's that simple. Now you agree that Appalachia is one of the poorest regions in the country, and you know exactly why that is, It's mining. There aren't any other job opportunites here because we don't have the trained workers to do them, most people who get an education move away from here to get jobs, including me. The average age of a coal miner is 55, which shows that young people arent working in the mines, and since you claim mining is our "savior" what happens when all those workers retire, there wont be anyone to work in the mines. We need to get better jobs in this area, which wont happen until MTR practices are controlled.

Just to let you know 6 counties in eastern Ky rank in the top ten nationally in lung cancer, children here are 50% more likely to get asthma, and mothers are more likely to have birth defects, and why is all of this happening, it's because these "great" coal companies are polluting Appalachia. I ask a lot of people to do this, and I would guess that very few do, but I will ask again, go look at google earth and view the destruction.

The point im trying to make is that MTR needs to be controlled and stopped, yes as of right now we need the coal, but there has got to be a better way, MTR takes away jobs, and destroys our environment, and is rapidly destroying our culture.

There is a group that sides with me, and it's a rapidly growing group of people just like you, people who want better for this region. this earth is god given, and all im trying to do is protect it and it's inhabitants.

MTR is destroying this region. MTR is accountably for floods, mudslides, contaminated water, and many other things. The property value of a home near a mine site drops on average by 90%, most people here have very little, and their home is their only possession, imagine how they feel when the lose all the have. Here is one you can probably understand, and it should hit home, Mining jobs have decreased by over 50% since 1970, thats when MTR really started. Is that the great job maker coal claims to be?

CO87: You say we have the ability to build a economy without coal. If this can be done then why hasn't this been started before now.

CO87: No one wants to see flat mountains. As we discussed in another thread, only 6% of the land in Eastern Ky is suitable for surface mining.

CO87: It only takes a handful of men to do the job that hundreds used to do. Give me a industry that employees as many people today that it employeed 30 to 50 years ago. The number of employees at auto manufactures have dropped, due to new technology, Construction companies are using less people and building more. Technology has changed every profession, and mining is no different, miners are able to mine more coal with less people just as the auto industry is able to build more cars with fewer people.


CO87: Lung Cancer, birth defects and asthma due to coal mining. I guess Eastern Kentucky having the highest amount of smokers doesn't affect lung cancer? Could so many women smoking, drinking or taking drugs have anything to do with birth defects?

CO87: MTR needs to be controlled or stopped. Which do you want controlled or stopped, if you want it controlled then you don't want it stopped. You say you against MTR are you ok with Contour Surface Mining?

CO87: MTR takes away jobs. I've heard this comment so many times, and it's completely false 80% of Surface mining operations mine coal that cannot be mined by underground methods. Most of these coal seams are not economical to mine underground, due to low recovery rates, geological conditions etc.

CO87: This Earth is God given. Your right God gave us this Earth, he also gave us the coal, oil, limestone, gas, trees and everything else on it to use.

CO87: Property Value of a home drops 90% near mine sites. I found a article where a reporter found just the opposite, property values were higher! The best thing would be to check with your PVA.