[Old School Hound]

I thought I would start  a thread for some sharing of thoughts for those who lean Progressive/Liberal or Moderate Democrats or Moderate Never Trump GOP'ers.  I would respectfully ask that our conservative friends frequent the many other threads available to you. The constant personal attacks on the character, integrity, honesty, and even the intelligence of good folks like Cardsfan, vector, and Outsider is just not fun for me. I love to laugh and have fun and poke fun of political figures(they very much deserve it). There is no humor or fun to be had with most on the far right, who are filled with negativity and a lot of misdirected hate and anger. 

 As I've mentioned before, I like those guys on the other side but I am done with the "King of Hate," who has spent way too much time on Parler and Gab , bathing in hate and wild , no-evidence conspiracy theories. Civility doesn't live  there anymore(if it ever did).

This is a discussion thread for progressives/liberals  or moderate never-Trumpers  who want to discuss your views without being insulted , bullied, or demeaned.  If you voted for Trump, this is not your thread.


The first topic I want to bring up is one I've spoken of before and a question I have asked of many people, both Trump followers and Trump detractors.  Why do you think a man like Donald Trump, a failed businessman and a failed human being holds such an appeal to those in his far right base?  Does my theory make sense or do you have one of your own? This is a question that I have pondered for a very long time. I find Trump's allure to these people  both fascinating and disturbing.

Cardsfan ,  vector,  Outsider ,  Mister D,    A Tribe Called Quest   ????    Any of you guys have thoughts on why those on the right, including evangelicals, fell hard for a sham of a man like the carnival barking , grab 'em by the p**** , failed businessman  ?

Feel free to discuss this or throw out another topic that you want to discuss with your like-minded brethren.

[jetpilot]

Old School Hound
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[Hoot Gibson]

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[Old School Hound]

Another thing I would be interested to know from our progressive/ moderate posters on here(if you don't mind sharing) is your voting history in Presidential elections. When Outsider posted his history in another thread, it was very much what I expected. he seems like a very moderate voice who would be willing to vote for a Bob Dole or a Barack Obama.  I, on the other hand, have never been willing to vote for a Republican because the party simply has never represented the things I believe in. I believe the GOP has run some honorable men in the past(Ford, Reagan, Bush's , Dole, McCain, Romney) but I couldn't vote for a party that opposed so much of what I believe in.  Btw, I laughed at those on the right who tried to paint Outsider as a "deranged"(I think that was the word) liberal.  The guy's obviously a very thoughtful, very moderate , very never Trumper. But when you oppose the Orange God, you will be called a crazy liberal by the crazy Marjorie Q. Greene wing of Trump's GOP.

Here's how I've voted:


1976:   John Anderson (not the country singer , but the one that looked like the actor, Harry Morgan of MASH and Dragnet fame)

1980:    Jimmy Carter

1984:    Walter Mondale

1988 :    Michael Dukakis

1992  :    William J. Clinton

1996  :     William J. Clinton

2000  :      Al Gore

2004  :      John Kerry

2008:        Barack H. Obama

2012   :     Barack  H. Obama

2016   :     Hillary  R. Clinton

2020   :      Joseph R. Biden



Would any of you other folks care to tell us how you've voted?  I always find it interesting.

[vector#1]

Another thing I would be interested to know from our progressive/ moderate posters on here(if you don't mind sharing) is your voting history in Presidential elections. When Outsider posted his history in another thread, it was very much what I expected. he seems like a very moderate voice who would be willing to vote for a Bob Dole or a Barack Obama.  I, on the other hand, have never been willing to vote for a Republican because the party simply has never represented the things I believe in. I believe the GOP has run some honorable men in the past(Ford, Reagan, Bush's , Dole, McCain, Romney) but I couldn't vote for a party that opposed so much of what I believe in.  Btw, I laughed at those on the right who tried to paint Outsider as a "deranged"(I think that was the word) liberal.  The guy's obviously a very thoughtful, very moderate , very never Trumper. But when you oppose the Orange God, you will  be called a crazy liberal by the crazy Marjorie Q. Greene wing of Trump's GOP.

Here's how I've voted:


1976:   John Anderson (not the country singer , but the one that looked like the actor, Harry Morgan of MASH and Dragnet fame)

1980:    Jimmy Carter

1984:    Walter Mondale

1988 :    Michael Dukakis

1992  :    William J. Clinton

1996  :     William J. Clinton

2000  :      Al Gore

2004  :      John Kerry

2008:        Barack H. Obama

2012   :     Barack  H. Obama

2016   :     Hillary  R. Clinton

2020   :      Joseph R. Biden



Would any of you other folks care to tell us how you've voted?  I always find it interesting.

1976  Carter made good money
1980  Carter start of the worst years as far as making money lots of coal miners lost THEIR jobs
1984  Mondale 
1988  Dukakis
1992  Clinton wages started going up
1996  Clinton balanced budgets wages still going up
2000  Gore  
2004  Kerry Country ended in biggest mess in my lifetime
2008  Obama finally started to turn things around
2012  Obama made most money in my lifetime 
2016 H Clinton lost to worst President ever numbers don't Lie This is the biggest mess any president has left topped Bush Jr.
2020 Biden got a lot to clean up but he will

[Cardfan1]

Another thing I would be interested to know from our progressive/ moderate posters on here(if you don't mind sharing) is your voting history in Presidential elections. When Outsider posted his history in another thread, it was very much what I expected. he seems like a very moderate voice who would be willing to vote for a Bob Dole or a Barack Obama.  I, on the other hand, have never been willing to vote for a Republican because the party simply has never represented the things I believe in. I believe the GOP has run some honorable men in the past(Ford, Reagan, Bush's , Dole, McCain, Romney) but I couldn't vote for a party that opposed so much of what I believe in.  Btw, I laughed at those on the right who tried to paint Outsider as a "deranged"(I think that was the word) liberal.  The guy's obviously a very thoughtful, very moderate , very never Trumper. But when you oppose the Orange God, you will  be called a crazy liberal by the crazy Marjorie Q. Greene wing of Trump's GOP.

Here's how I've voted:


1976:   John Anderson (not the country singer , but the one that looked like the actor, Harry Morgan of MASH and Dragnet fame)

1980:    Jimmy Carter

1984:    Walter Mondale

1988 :    Michael Dukakis

1992  :    William J. Clinton

1996  :     William J. Clinton

2000  :      Al Gore

2004  :      John Kerry

2008:        Barack H. Obama

2012   :     Barack  H. Obama

2016   :     Hillary  R. Clinton

2020   :      Joseph R. Biden



Would any of you other folks care to tell us how you've voted?  I always find it interesting.

1996  Clinton
2000  Gore--Are you better off now than you were 8 years ago?  Yes and half the nation votes the other way.  SMH
2004  Bush--I regret that vote.  I guess I was enamored with the idea of ME, terrorism, and WMDs
2008  Obama--McCain was a good man, but Bush spoiled me on the GOP.  
2012  Obama-- the man deserved a second term
2016  HRC-- a terrible candidate and lost to a worse person.  In Feb. of that year I had made up my mind I was voting for Kasich if he could win the nomination.  
2020 Biden---I have been impressed with his politics so far.  

---

I thought I would start  a thread for some sharing of thoughts for those who lean Progressive/Liberal or Moderate Democrats or Moderate Never Trump GOP'ers.  I would respectfully ask that our conservative friends frequent the many other threads available to you. The constant personal attacks on the character, integrity, honesty, and even the intelligence of good folks like Cardsfan, vector, and Outsider is just not fun for me. I love to laugh and have fun and poke fun of political figures(they very much deserve it). There is no humor or fun to be had with most on the far right, who are filled with negativity and a lot of misdirected hate and anger. 

 As I've mentioned before, I like those guys on the other side but I am done with the "King of Hate," who has spent way too much time on Parler and Gab , bathing in hate and wild , no-evidence conspiracy theories. Civility doesn't live  there anymore(if it ever did).

This is a discussion thread for progressives/liberals  or moderate never-Trumpers  who want to discuss your views without being insulted , bullied, or demeaned.  If you voted for Trump, this is not your thread.


The first topic I want to bring up is one I've spoken of before and a question I have asked of many people, both Trump followers and Trump detractors.  Why do you think a man like Donald Trump, a failed businessman and a failed human being holds such an appeal to those in his far right base?  Does my theory make sense or do you have one of your own? This is a question that I have pondered for a very long time. I find Trump's allure to these people  both fascinating and disturbing.

Cardsfan ,  vector,  Outsider ,  Mister D,    A Tribe Called Quest   ????    Any of you guys have thoughts on why those on the right, including evangelicals, fell hard for a sham of a man like the carnival barking , grab 'em by the p**** , failed businessman  ?

Feel free to discuss this or throw out another topic that you want to discuss with your like-minded brethren.

My money is on the apocalypse.  Trump is their best chance at destroying the world and bringing about an end to those who don't look, think, or believe like them.

[Cardfan1]

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/...l-year-nyt

I am interested to see what is in this. Dropping the student loan forgiveness in any capacity is going to split the party and cost democrat votes.

[Old School Hound]

Cardsfan and vector, I appreciate you sharing that.   CF, we are all to be excused for one bad vote...LOL . My dad voted for Nixon in '60. He regrets it to this day. There was a large scare campaign initiated by Republicans(yes, they were using fear even six decades ago) using the anti-Catholic bias that existed at the time.  Dad said they were scaring voters into thinking if JFK was elected, he would be answering to the pope.  Republicans  always use fear as a tactical recruiting tool. It's a shame but  they really do play off of people's fears and prejudices to sucker in vulnerable people. Fortunately, after I was born in '62, dad returned to his senses and has voted Democratic ever since.

Let me ask you this--- what do you think is the future of the GOP?   Trump has obviously damaged the party to where it probably can't win another general election for a pretty long time. Can it be brought back to some degree of normalcy? I mean, right now the party is being led by a maniac who attempted to overthrow the government. And this extremist element of the party supported his attempts to do so. A lot of the moderates have either left the party or denounced its current incarnation.  

Can people like Kinsinger, Romney,  Cheney, and other principled conservatives and moderates wrestle control away from a maniacal, nefarious, monster.  Personally, I want to see a vibrant and sane two-party system, one that respects the principles of democracy. I want to be able to have a honest debate of issues with Republicans again.  But how do you debate a faction that denies that a violent insurrection took place on Jan. 6 or insists that an election was rigged, in spite of zero legitimate evidence to back up such a claim?  

What happens to the GOP in the short run and in the long run , in your opinion?

[vector#1]

Cardsfan and vector, I appreciate you sharing that.   CF, we are all to be excused for one bad vote...LOL . My dad voted for Nixon in '60. He regrets it to this day. There was a large scare campaign initiated by Republicans(yes, they were using fear even six decades ago) using the anti-Catholic bias that existed at the time.  Dad said they were scaring voters into thinking if JFK was elected, he would be answering to the pope.  Republicans  always use fear as a tactical recruiting tool. It's a shame but  they really do play off of people's fears and prejudices to sucker in vulnerable people. Fortunately, after I was born in '62, dad returned to his senses and has voted Democratic ever since.

Let me ask you this--- what do you think is the future of the GOP?   Trump has obviously damaged the party to where it probably can't win another general election for a pretty long time. Can it be brought back to some degree of normalcy? I mean, right now the party is being led by a maniac who attempted to overthrow the government. And this extremist element of the party supported his attempts to do so. A lot of the moderates have either left the party or denounced its current incarnation.  

Can people like Kinsinger, Romney,  Cheney, and other principled conservatives and moderates wrestle control away from a maniacal, nefarious, monster.  Personally, I want to see a vibrant and sane two-party system, one that respects the principles of democracy. I want to be able to have a honest debate of issues with Republicans again.  But how do you debate a faction that denies that a violent insurrection took place on Jan. 6 or insists that an election was rigged, in spite of zero legitimate evidence to back up such a claim?  

What happens to the GOP in the short run and in the long run , in your opinion?

Nixon would be a liberal today in the Crazy Party(Old Republican Party) but he was a crook simple as that.
No Kinsinger, Romney, or Cheney can't turn around the Crazy Party they worship one guy and that's it.
The only chance they have of ever winning another general election is keep the vote down and the Crazy Party Legislators step in and overthrow the election. They are and have passed laws right now to do all the above.

[Cardfan1]

Cardsfan and vector, I appreciate you sharing that.   CF, we are all to be excused for one bad vote...LOL . My dad voted for Nixon in '60. He regrets it to this day. There was a large scare campaign initiated by Republicans(yes, they were using fear even six decades ago) using the anti-Catholic bias that existed at the time.  Dad said they were scaring voters into thinking if JFK was elected, he would be answering to the pope.  Republicans  always use fear as a tactical recruiting tool. It's a shame but  they really do play off of people's fears and prejudices to sucker in vulnerable people. Fortunately, after I was born in '62, dad returned to his senses and has voted Democratic ever since.

Let me ask you this--- what do you think is the future of the GOP?   Trump has obviously damaged the party to where it probably can't win another general election for a pretty long time. Can it be brought back to some degree of normalcy? I mean, right now the party is being led by a maniac who attempted to overthrow the government. And this extremist element of the party supported his attempts to do so. A lot of the moderates have either left the party or denounced its current incarnation.  

Can people like Kinsinger, Romney,  Cheney, and other principled conservatives and moderates wrestle control away from a maniacal, nefarious, monster.  Personally, I want to see a vibrant and sane two-party system, one that respects the principles of democracy. I want to be able to have a honest debate of issues with Republicans again.  But how do you debate a faction that denies that a violent insurrection took place on Jan. 6 or insists that an election was rigged, in spite of zero legitimate evidence to back up such a claim?  

What happens to the GOP in the short run and in the long run , in your opinion?

To the question...I have no idea.  I thought the fever would break after the Insurrection, but for some, it's gotten worse.   Many in the GOP have lost their morals and their support for democracy.  

The allegiance to the worst of the worst amazes me.  I fear they will put up an even more vile human being than Trump in 2024.   MTG and Gaetz have huge followings if they can split a primary field in 2024 one of these crazies can be the nominee.  I don't think they can beat a vegetable Biden, but it's a sad state of affairs that these bigots can get so much support.  

I will say this. Democrats have to be worried about a 3rd moderate party.  GOP lite made up of those folks you're talking about, independents, and the more moderate Democrats, and this new party could swipe the Presidency on the first try.  I wonder if they will try to make a midterm run with this new party.

---

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/27/politics/...index.html

Now, this is interesting. I'm not sure if Paul could make himself palatable to moderates but the alternative tastes like crap.

[TheRealThing]

I mean I know we just got through Killing a Mockingbird. But seriously, after a cursory skim I have to say I just flew over the CuckCoo's nest.   :D

[vector#1]

I mean I know we just got through Killing a Mockingbird. But seriously, after a cursory skim I have to say I just flew over the CuckCoo's nest.  

I don't think you just flew over it you was hatched in it
Crazy Stuff

---

Typical member of the Crazy Party or Wallace 2.0

[TheRealThing]

My money is on the apocalypse.  Trump is their best chance at destroying the world and bringing about an end to those who don't look, think, or believe like them.

Right ^^. The problem isn't Antichrist or the Satanic forces of the Lord's mention. According to you the problem lies with the Lord's own people. I mean the nerve of those guys who believe it like the Lord spoke it. They're all a bunch of bigots to be sure.

[Cardfan1]

My money is on the apocalypse.  Trump is their best chance at destroying the world and bringing about an end to those who don't look, think, or believe like them.

Right ^^. The problem isn't Antichrist or the Satanic forces of the Lord's mention. According to you the problem lies with the Lord's own people. I mean the nerve of those guys who believe it like the Lord spoke it. They're all a bunch of bigots to be sure.

Sir, you are on a moderate-liberal thread.  
hard lines have been drawn by your brethren. Go mingle elsewhere.

[Old School Hound]

Progressives. moderate thinkers, sane people . I need help understanding these numbers in a new  YahooNews/YouGov poll.   Help me , please!

CF, vector , Outsider, VH(wherever you are), how do you explain this? 

In the poll, Republicans were surveyed and asked who was to blame for the Jan. 6  attack on the Capitol.  


Only  23% of Republicans said Trump deserved "some" or "a great deal" of the blame.

More than twice that many (52%) said Trump was "not at all" to blame.

Only 41% of Republicans said that supporters of Trump bear "some" or "a great deal" of the blame.  Who do they place most of the blame on then?

A whopping  73% of Republicans said that "some" or "a great deal" of the blame" goes to " left-wing protestors trying to make Trump look bad."


What's wrong with these folks?

Btw, both Kevin McCarthy and the FBI have said that the claim about left-wing protestors being to blame is FALSE.

[vector#1]

Progressives. moderate thinkers, sane people . I need help understanding these numbers in a new  YahooNews/YouGov poll.   Help me , please!

CF, vector , Outsider, VH(wherever you are), how do you explain this? 

In the poll, Republicans were surveyed and asked who was to blame for the Jan. 6  attack on the Capitol.  


Only  23% of Republicans said Trump deserved "some" or "a great deal" of the blame.

More than twice that many (52%) said Trump was "not at all" to blame.

Only 41% of Republicans said that supporters of Trump bear "some" or "a great deal" of the blame.  Who do they place most of the blame on then?

A whopping  73% of Republicans said that "some" or "a great deal" of the blame" goes to " left-wing protestors trying to make Trump look bad."


What's wrong with these folks?

Jim Jones Cult members polled the same way before they drunk the Kool-Aid
Hope the Dear Leader hurry up and start passing it out
Let's all go together

[Cardfan1]

The loss of the Jan. 6th commission

States sweeping election reforms based on the big lie restricting voting.

This is frustrating. Democracy is being undermined and Democrats are being limpwristed. Come on, Joe.

[Old School Hound]

The loss of the Jan. 6th commission

States sweeping election reforms based on the big lie restricting voting.

This is frustrating.  Democracy is being undermined and Democrats are being limpwristed.  Come on, Joe.

Totally agree.  I can't think of a more pressing issue. It's time for Democrats to make their voices resonate and their power felt.

[Cardfan1]

The loss of the Jan. 6th commission

States sweeping election reforms based on the big lie restricting voting.

This is frustrating.  Democracy is being undermined and Democrats are being limpwristed.  Come on, Joe.

Totally agree.  I can't think of a more pressing issue. It's time for Democrats to make their voices resonate and their power felt.

Mitch powered through filibusters to pack the court with conservatives.  It’s time to bust up this filibuster and get something done.  Manchin and Sinema need to get on the bus. We can’t spend two years trying to prove to the nation that the GOP is the anti-American party. That’s a good way to lose one of the houses.

[Old School Hound]

The loss of the Jan. 6th commission

States sweeping election reforms based on the big lie restricting voting.

This is frustrating.  Democracy is being undermined and Democrats are being limpwristed.  Come on, Joe.

Totally agree.  I can't think of a more pressing issue. It's time for Democrats to make their voices resonate and their power felt.

Mitch powered through filibusters to pack the court with conservatives.  It’s time to bust up this filibuster and get something done.  Manchin and Sinema need to get on the bus. We can’t spend two years trying to prove to the nation that the GOP is the anti-American party. That’s a good way to lose one of the houses.

I'm tired of Democrats trying to play "nice guy."     #packthecourt    #9to13(btw, this is not a Matt Gaetz girl request)


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/supreme-cou...-justices/

[Cardfan1]

Absolutely.
Run these issues through. No one cares about bipartisanship or parliamentary procedures. A good portion of the GOP wants an authoritative govt., so who cares what they think.

[Hoot Gibson]

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[vector#1]

Bingo Reeling them in they can't help themselves

[Hoot Gibson]

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[Cardfan1]

Somebody has wandered on the wrong thread.
Bless his heart; Needs attention.

[Hoot Gibson]

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[Cardfan1]

Hooter, I don’t really see why you have to repost your “ignore message”.

You doth protest too much.

[Hoot Gibson]

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[vector#1]

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[Cardfan1]

I hope we don’t have any visitors ( I think I’ll just ignore them), but where do you guys stand on this nuclear chicken little the sheep are baaing about?

How can China both a supporter of Uncle Joe and starting a nuclear war?