[CoachNM0523]

Who’s the greatest?

[Strikeout King]

Jordan. Hands down. LBJ is good but he has never faced the compeition that Jordan did in his era. It's hard to get a grip on these two because the league has changed so much. In Jordan's ERA you had the greats. Bird, Barkley and others.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_c...jordan.htm

[plantmanky]

Jordan. Hands down. LBJ is good but he has never faced the compeition that Jordan did in his era. It's hard to get a grip on these two because the league has changed so much. In Jordan's ERA you had the greats. Bird, Barkley and others.

http://www.landofbasketball.com/player_c...jordan.htm

Agree a million times over. Current NBA fans dont realize how much talent Jordan faced. If you lived in that time, I dont think you realized it till the 92 Dream Team was put together for the Olympics. All that talent was spread out over the league.

Lebron may be a physical better athlete, but MJ was by far the a better basketball player.

[RealJokersWild24]

Comparing eras is insanely tough, but here are three to four arguments and/or general points in that vein of thought:


1. The "Teammates and Opponents" Arugment(s):

I'm not sure that the Dream Team comparison is the best. Michael & Scottie and Stockton & Malone were the only two who played on the same team. Further, International Basketball then was nothing close to what it is now, making them look even more dominant (and not factoring in the motivation of having all the best play after what had just transpired).

I don't think Jordan had to contend with a team anywhere near the level of the Warriors. If you are putting together the best US Olympic Team possible for this season (and excluding injuries) then Curry, Durant, Thompson and Green all get mention. Andre Iguodala is not exactly a slouch either, and has been on Olympic and All-Star teams.

LeBron's biggest criticism seems to be that he's only won one title when not paired with Wade, Bosh, etc. in Miami, but I don't think any of his teammates during his first stint in Cleveland were playing at a sustained All-Star/Olympic type level at that point in their careers. However, in his defense, his Miami team also beat a very talented Oklahoma City team (that had 3 league MVPs in Westbrook, Durant, and Harden, as well as some talented players like Serge Ibaka). Yes, LeBron did have Kyrie and Love when they beat the Warriors (without Durant), but I don't know that Jordan had faced a team any MORE talented than them (especially in an era where threes weren't as valued and the rules seem to protect offensive players, especially stars, from physical play).

Jordan wasn't exactly playing with scrubs either (https://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/pr...dan-052717). His teammates accomplishments and/or draft positions were as follows:

Scottie Pippen (5th pick; career is self explanatory)
Dennis Rodman (Hall of Fame career and multiple time champion),
Toni Kukoc (highly underrated career and an extremely versatile player at a time when international players weren't recognized as they are today)
Steve Kerr (who played for five championship teams)
Bill Cartwright (3rd overall)
Stacey King (6th overall)
Luc Longley (7th overall)
Ron Harper (8th overall)
Charles Oakley (9th pick and one of the league's most notorious enforcers),
Horace Grant (10th overall)
Will Perdue (11th overall)
Bill Wennington (16th overall)
BJ Armstrong (18th overall)
John Paxson (19th overall)

What I'm getting at with the above-- these weren't exactly castaways and the big men, for as maligned as they were, had shown the promise to be taken where they were and I don't know that Jordan's teammates historically get enough credit for their talent and/or achievements.



2. The "Record" argument(s):

In 1994, the Bulls were without Jordan but only won two fewer regular season games than the previous year (57 to 55). That year, they were beaten by New York in seven games (NY would subsequently lose to the Rockets in 7). As many like to point to, the 2009-2010 Cavs (with LeBron) won 61 games while the 2010 version (without LeBron... plus a Shaq on his last legs, Mo Williams, and Danny Green) only won 19 in 2010-2011.

I think that this one is a bit overblown, as the Bulls were still good enough to be a contender, had incentive to remain competitive (as Jordan had retired in his prime [yet another issue] and was ultimately lured back), and the Cavs had clear incentive to tank after having no choice but to invest heavily in resigning LeBron.



3. "Jordan Stepped Out In His Prime":

A huge wrench in truly comparing their career accomplishments. The "what if" factor here has tons of possibilities. Maybe if Jordan wins four to five consecutive titles, teams around the league begin to adjust and load up to combat the Bulls in the way golf courses were "Tiger Proofed".

Would Jordan have really been able to win Seven Straight Titles, or would the League have tried to regulate the game in a way to make it more interesting and competitive (i.e., a run of dominance by the Bulls and no one else might not have been great for business and ratings).

While Jordan obviously had a lot in the tank the first time he stepped away, would he have been as dominant late in his career without the time off?

The greatest questions associated with all the unknowns will never truly be answered.

[RealJokersWild24]

My thoughts on the debate would be like this:

If my life depended on putting together a team to win one basketball game, and I could have any player in their prime on the condition that I could only choose Jordan OR LeBron, but not both, my team would include Jordan (and would probably be: PG - Magic/Robertson, SG - Jordan/Curry, SF - Bird/Erving, PF - Kareem/Duncan, C - Wilt/Shaq/Hakeem).

If my life depended on putting together a team to win one basketball game, and I could only have one player in their prime on the condition that they filled out my entire roster (i.e., I was able to have 12 identical clones of only one single player), then I probably pick LeBron over Jordan because I think he's a bit more versatile (i.e., I think it'd be tough for Jordan to keep LeBron off the boards; that LeBron's advantages in height, weight, etc. would be too much for Jordan defensively; and that I'm not sure that a second through fifth Jordans are marginally better in terms of what they'd bring to the team [think win shares and how Jordan's game is much more predicated on being a scorer] when compared to the second through fifth LeBron's [who could still rack up rebounds & assists, run breaks, etc.]).

[Fundamentals]

Possibly the dumbest thing I've seen today. As far as championships go Lebron has faced MUCH tougher competition. Jordan never played a team with 4 all stars and in that time they had to move the three point line up because no one could make a shot. So you're telling me the warriors wouldn't have a field day playing in those years.Jordan also never beat Bird and only beat Johnson on the brink of retirement. He beat Phoenix that had one player, Charles Barkley. I'm not taking anything away from Jordan but to say it's not even close is absurd and comical

[Fundamentals]

Not to mention players in the NBA today are much bigger,faster,stronger and 7 footers like Porzingis and Durant can knock down three pointers where as the 90s they had no business out there

[Strikeout King]

Jordan vs LeBron

Updated after Lebrons 14th season. Michael Jordan has:
•3 more rings
•3 more final mvps
•1 more DPOY
•1 more season MVP
•9 more scoring titles
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer.
•800 more steals
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
Lebron did it twice
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more offensive help, example:
Jordan never had a teammate average more than 22 points in the finals.. In fact, Mj is Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
* In the Bulls’ 1997 playoff run, Scottie Pippen averaged 19 points per game on 42% shooting. All other teammates of Jordan averaged under 8 points per game
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
MJ accomplished all of this in 13 seasons
Lebron after his 14th season, is still chasing the “ghost (GOAT) that played in Chicago”
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
•LeBron James has scored 30 points, 416 times in 1,117 games.
Michael Jordan did it 562 times in 1,072 games.
Jordan won 6 championships without losing a final in 1,072 games and LeBron in 1,117 games has lost 5 times and has only won 3 times (updated 2018)
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
•Mj also has more career blocks (893) than Lebron James (853) despite playing in 22 LESS career games and being the smaller guy.
Also, MJ averaged 1.6 blocks per game in the 1987-88 season which is absolutely bonkers for a 6’6″ shooting guard.
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn’t even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
MIchael Jordan:
•NBA record 5 playoffs series’ averaging atleast 40ppg
•Only player in history to lead league in scoring and win DPOY
•Highest scoring average, points per game, in any championship series:
41.0 vs. Phoenix Suns, 1993 NBA Finals
•Only rookie in NBA history to lead his team in four statistics (1984–85)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring, win Most Valuable Player, and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season (1987–88)
•Only player in history to average at least 30pts 6reb 5assists And 2 steals per game AND HE DID IT 7 TIMES.
•Only player in NBA history to win Rookie of the Year (1984–85), Defensive Player of the Year (1987–88), NBA MVP (1987–88, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1997–98), All-Star MVP (1988, 1996, 1998), and Finals MVP (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring and win the NBA championship MORE THAN ONCE in the same season
* He did this SIX TIMES!! (1990–91, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98)
•One of two players in NBA history to score 3,000 points in a season: 3,041 points scored in 82 games played (37.1 ppg) (1986–87)
* Wilt Chamberlain is the only other player to achieve this.
•MJ is also the only player in NBA history to score over 40 points at age 40, and he did it twice!
•In 1988, MJ earned: Dunk Champ, All Star Game MVP, NBA Scoring Title, League MVP and Defensive Player of the Year.
Michael in only ELEVEN complete seasons with the Bulls:
-10 scoring titles,
-Won Defensive Player of the Year,
-9 times all defensive team,
-9time All NBA,
-5 league MVPs
-6 finals MVPs
All 11 seasons. Mj has done in 11 seasons things Lebron hasn’t done and won’t do in his whole career…

[Strikeout King]

You can't really debate this. These two legends have played in two different ERA's.

[cj2561]

if Jordan played today, with all the rules now. Jordan would avg. 50 PPG plus. and I think he would played 5 to 10 years longer.

they want to talk about these playoff records. when Jordan played the first round was only the best of 5. not the best of 7 like it is now. and also, how many game 7 did Jordan played in. not many.

[Granny Bear]

Both of these athletes are insanely talented.

BUT LeBron just whines too much for me.

[Spud6]

As a young man of 23 I personally am more partial to MJ. If I was picking a player to build my team around and win me championships, I'm picking MJ.

Although, I do believe Bron is the greatest all-around player in the NBA based on ability and God-given talent, but that doesn't mean he is the best basketball player of all-time.

And I know this debate is going to go on for years and years but I'm on the side that you can't really compare the two because they played in different areas.

[zaga_fan]

You can't really debate this. These two legends have played in two different ERA's.

Which is it?
Your first post said Jordan hands down... And then it was you can't debate it.

[Strikeout King]

Which is it?
Your first post said Jordan hands down... And then it was you can't debate it.

It's hard to compare them because they played in two different ERA's. Jordan went up against, Byrd, Bryant, Shaq, Olajuwon, Barkley and many other greats. LeBron never faced those guys but he's going up against players like Steph, Harden, Anthony Davis, Big Cuz and so on.

I think it's hard to compare these two. Sure they're both great and both will be legends.

[ethanscott]

Who’s the greatest?

Jordan is the greatest, hands down.
But I don't think LeBron is too far off though.
He has been playing for so long and it his game has always improved consistently.

[GotYouInMyScope]

Enjoy both of their GREATNESS!!

P.S. Kobe BEAN Bryant is in the GOAT conversation!!

[E's Army]

Jordan is best. Lebron is close second. He could become 1B.

[The Ole Man]

Michael Jeffrey Jordan

[Spirit100]

Jordan, Jordan, and yes Jordan!!! ; )

[Wildcat100]

Jordan!!! Why is this even a discussion

[WideRight05]

Both are amongst the best, but my pick would be Wilt Chamberlain.

[charlierichkid]

LBJ is good but MJ is LEGENDARY...

[Theherm]

I don't think Lebron can be considered for goat yet. MJ is still the greatest in my mind.

[Hoot Gibson]

Wilt.

[WhomTheBellTolls]

only a millennial would ask this question. mj if you’ve ever seen basketball

[RoShamBo]

I had this discussion with someone the other day. This is how I look at it.

20, 30, 40 years from now if someone who never got to see either of them play asks me if LeBron is the best basketball player ever I'll answer it like this:

He should have been.

[Spud6]

I had this discussion with someone the other day. This is how I look at it.

20, 30, 40 years from now if someone who never got to see either of them play asks me if LeBron is the best basketball player ever I'll answer it like this:

He should have been.

What do you mean bun “he should have been?”

[RoShamBo]

What do you mean bun “he should have been?”

Probably the most physically gifted player the NBA has ever seen. However, he always lacked the killer instinct that Jordan had, he routinely muscles coaches out of their roles, and he's not a great teammate.

So what I mean is, he had all of the tools to be the greatest player that ever lived, but because of all of the above, he isn't.

[kobebryantt24]

I think Jordan is the greatest player ever or Kobe Bryant, but not LeBron

[strepxe]

Lebron. He won with bad teams while Michael couldn’t get out of the first round until Pippen came.