[BallFan1952]

Coaches are allowed to scratch officials, so that doesn't happen! If they don't want them there, they can see to it that they aren't. irateSho

Please help me with this one, how many Refs can a Coach scratch in a season?

What is the process to scratch one and is it for their home games only or any game they’re in?

Do the Refs know when they have been scratched and which coach scratched them?

I’ve heard of this but do coaches actually do it?

[RippVanWrinkle69]

Please help me with this one, how many Refs can a Coach scratch in a season?

What is the process to scratch one and is it for their home games only or any game they’re in?

Do the Refs know when they have been scratched and which coach scratched them?

I’ve heard of this but do coaches actually do it?

Depends on how many officials are in region. Most of the time just 2.
Both home and away.
No they are not told.

[Creeker]

I think everyone agrees that being a ref is a crappy job and no one ever thinks the ref does a good job, unless their team is winning. lol

This is what gets me worse than anything, when you walk into the gym and you see 3 refs on the floor... all from the same county and all with a blatant disdain for one team on the floor... this should never happen, in my mind, but I've seen it time and time again.

[Patriot train]

Please help me with this one, how many Refs can a Coach scratch in a season?

What is the process to scratch one and is it for their home games only or any game they’re in?

Do the Refs know when they have been scratched and which coach scratched them?

I’ve heard of this but do coaches actually do it?

It is 3 and it is done at the beginning of every season. Refs are allowed to scratch 3 teams and coaches are allowed to scratch 3 refs. Neither is told and it is used very much by both.

[Patriot train]

I think everyone agrees that being a ref is a crappy job and no one ever thinks the ref does a good job, unless their team is winning. lol

This is what gets me worse than anything, when you walk into the gym and you see 3 refs on the floor... all from the same county and all with a blatant disdain for one team on the floor... this should never happen, in my mind, but I've seen it time and time again.

Coaches are given a rating sheet for officials before the season starts, the 3 officials that are put on games are a combination of the two coaches ratings for those officials. The assignor usually tries to get each coach someone from the top of their list and then someone in the middle. Sometimes the officials at the tops of the coaches lists are the same, so that makes it easy for the assignor. If certain coaches don't want certain officials, they should use scratches on them. If they don't scratch them, they can have them on their games. Some coaches know what teams like certain officials so to not get them on that game, they scratch them so that team can't have their favorite official for certain games. Its all a big game, some people know how to play it much better than others.

Either way, officials are getting older, not many younger officials are coming into the profession, the pay is horrible when you think about all the driving, time away from family, bull crap you have to put up with during the game, and after on all these message boards from all the refs in the stands that know everything and could do a much better job, but choose to sit behind the computer and bash the poor guys/gals, and all the meetings you have to attend on sunday afternoons again away from your family, all the equipment/uniform/shoes etc. you have to purchase. But like was said before, most don't do it for the money and do it because they love to be around the game, to help out these high school athletes, and get a little exercise away from the every day grind at their real job.

The wymt piece was supposed to bring awareness to how bad it is for the officials and how ridiculous some people act towards them, but all it has done was turn in to a bashing session on yet another message board. Just don't get it!!!!!!:HitWall::HitWall::HitWall::HitWall:

[Superfly]

Sometimes I see the Mothers and Grandmas raising more hell than anybody. It’s funny but not. That’s what I was saying all along. Would it be any better if they paid them better, had them go to reviews of their games and some accountability? Can’t the refs get the school personnel to make the parents or rowdy fans to leave? I buddy told me that a referee went to the athletic director at a Lynn Camp game and asked the AD if he was going to let one certain woman yell and talk to him like that. The AD said “For all the bad calls and no calls you have, you deserve it. If you want them to quit, call a better game”. Thats scary

[plantmanky]

Sometimes I see the Mothers and Grandmas raising more hell than anybody. It’s funny but not. That’s what I was saying all along. Would it be any better if they paid them better, had them go to reviews of their games and some accountability? Can’t the refs get the school personnel to make the parents or rowdy fans to leave? I buddy told me that a referee went to the athletic director at a Lynn Camp game and asked the AD if he was going to let one certain woman yell and talk to him like that. The AD said “For all the bad calls and no calls you have, you deserve it. If you want them to quit, call a better game”. Thats scary

Half the problem is right in your post here. There is almost ZERO, NONE, ABSENT AS HELL, game management at games anymore.

[ky playmaker]

Coaches are given a rating sheet for officials before the season starts, the 3 officials that are put on games are a combination of the two coaches ratings for those officials. The assignor usually tries to get each coach someone from the top of their list and then someone in the middle. Sometimes the officials at the tops of the coaches lists are the same, so that makes it easy for the assignor. If certain coaches don't want certain officials, they should use scratches on them. If they don't scratch them, they can have them on their games. Some coaches know what teams like certain officials so to not get them on that game, they scratch them so that team can't have their favorite official for certain games. Its all a big game, some people know how to play it much better than others.

Either way, officials are getting older, not many younger officials are coming into the profession, the pay is horrible when you think about all the driving, time away from family, bull crap you have to put up with during the game, and after on all these message boards from all the refs in the stands that know everything and could do a much better job, but choose to sit behind the computer and bash the poor guys/gals, and all the meetings you have to attend on sunday afternoons again away from your family, all the equipment/uniform/shoes etc. you have to purchase. But like was said before, most don't do it for the money and do it because they love to be around the game, to help out these high school athletes, and get a little exercise away from the every day grind at their real job.

The wymt piece was supposed to bring awareness to how bad it is for the officials and how ridiculous some people act towards them, but all it has done was turn in to a bashing session on yet another message board. Just don't get it!!!!!!:HitWall::HitWall::HitWall::HitWall:

i dont get the terrible pay part. I have talked to atleast 10 refs from different parts of state just cause I was curious. All leave a 3-3.5 hr jv and varsity game with between 100-125 thats 28.50 an hour on low side and 41.60 an hour on high side. I know that dont include driving time to work but I dont know anybody that gets paid to drive to work. Thats not horrible pay for a part time job.

[rojas]

Is there a link to the story? I can't find it on their website.

[ky playmaker]

Is there a link to the story? I can't find it on their website.

I not sure how to forward a link on here but it’s on wymt I had to kinda look for it but finally found it

[KYHSFB]

Some parents are absolutely ridiculous. "You sign up for it"- No, they sign up to officiate a sport. Yeah, they make bad calls. Bad calls might even deserve some booing.

But some of the things I hear in high school bleachers is absolutely ridiculous. I wouldn't want to officiate a high school sport.

[rojas]

I have to admit, when I was in my 20s I stayed on the refs from tipoff till buzzer. At some point I decided that was stupid. For the last 30 years, I just set back and enjoy the game. It's much more enjoyable this way.

[basketball101]

Most Refs do the best they can .

[plantmanky]

i dont get the terrible pay part. I have talked to atleast 10 refs from different parts of state just cause I was curious. All leave a 3-3.5 hr jv and varsity game with between 100-125 thats 28.50 an hour on low side and 41.60 an hour on high side. I know that dont include driving time to work but I dont know anybody that gets paid to drive to work. Thats not horrible pay for a part time job.

Dont forget about travel time to and from the game.

[clipperw]

I have to admit, when I was in my 20s I stayed on the refs from tipoff till buzzer. At some point I decided that was stupid. For the last 30 years, I just set back and enjoy the game. It's much more enjoyable this way.

If only more people came to that conclusion you did, Rojas. I love going to games and while I may not agree with every call, I keep my mouth shut and try to enjoy the game. If I was just going to get mad and yell and cuss at the referees, I'd find a more enjoyable thing to do with my time.

I guess I see it a bit different because I'm just a fan of the game who doesnt have a kid or family member that plays. I have schools I like to see do well but if they lose a game I'm not going to break things or look to fight somebody because of it.

[BallFan1952]

Who does the buck stop with in basketball?

In baseball it’s the person behind the plate who says play ball, they are the one that might send a player or coach to the dugout and in some cases they remove them from the ballpark.

I’ve seen them remove fans from the ballpark when they get out of hand. If they can tell which team the fan is with they just go that head coach and tell them to have their fan to leave the ballpark, and if they are unsure which team the fan is with, they go to the home team coach and has them take care of it. I think it’s a KDE rule or policy that the host school must have a administrator on site to deal with problems like this and if it get bad they should just call the law and let them deal with it. If it gets out of hand they can just call the game. No school or coach wants this to happen.

So back to my question, where the buck stop with in basketball?

[RippVanWrinkle69]

Sometimes I see the Mothers and Grandmas raising more hell than anybody. It’s funny but not. That’s what I was saying all along. Would it be any better if they paid them better, had them go to reviews of their games and some accountability? Can’t the refs get the school personnel to make the parents or rowdy fans to leave? I buddy told me that a referee went to the athletic director at a Lynn Camp game and asked the AD if he was going to let one certain woman yell and talk to him like that. The AD said “For all the bad calls and no calls you have, you deserve it. If you want them to quit, call a better game”. Thats scary

If the AD said that, the game should have been stopped until the fan had been removed. If the AD refused.... game over forfeit. Thank you and walk away.

[RippVanWrinkle69]

i dont get the terrible pay part. I have talked to atleast 10 refs from different parts of state just cause I was curious. All leave a 3-3.5 hr jv and varsity game with between 100-125 thats 28.50 an hour on low side and 41.60 an hour on high side. I know that dont include driving time to work but I dont know anybody that gets paid to drive to work. Thats not horrible pay for a part time job.

Which region pays 125 for jv and varsity? Heck for that I’d consider reffing. Most to all jv that uses 3 man pays around 30 bucks. 2 man 45-50. Varsity 65 to 75. BUT you very seldom see the same crew doing both (with exceptions to the regions that have low ref turnouts).

[Creeker]

How much of a shortage is there really... KHSAA shows next to 1800 licensed officials across the state for Basketball alone.

I can pretty well mirror what rojas says... I used to holler and carry on at games, not really at the refs... but as I've gotten older, I just want to sit back and eat my :popcorn: and enjoy the game.

[Willie_Mays_Hayes]

There is a difference between just being bad and a crook....you will never get rid of the money changing hands under the table so quit complaining about people getting on refs!

[ky playmaker]

Which region pays 125 for jv and varsity? Heck for that I’d consider reffing. Most to all jv that uses 3 man pays around 30 bucks. 2 man 45-50. Varsity 65 to 75. BUT you very seldom see the same crew doing both (with exceptions to the regions that have low ref turnouts).

every game I have been to this year but two same refs done jv and varsity. your numbers are pretty accurate from the refs I talked to 40 fro jv on avg 75 varsity 40 plus 75 is 115 a nite 38 bucks an hour if 3hrs which some go longer some shorter other nite jv started at 6 varsity was over by 8:40 that one went fast

[Creeker]

i dont get the terrible pay part. I have talked to atleast 10 refs from different parts of state just cause I was curious. All leave a 3-3.5 hr jv and varsity game with between 100-125 thats 28.50 an hour on low side and 41.60 an hour on high side. I know that dont include driving time to work but I dont know anybody that gets paid to drive to work. Thats not horrible pay for a part time job.

That's exactly what I keep thinking... it's not like these folks are making minimum wage to do this JOB. It's not a hobby... this is a job in which you are getting paid to do work... period, no matter the reasons they may be in it...

[Patriot train]

How much of a shortage is there really... KHSAA shows next to 1800 licensed officials across the state for Basketball alone.

I can pretty well mirror what rojas says... I used to holler and carry on at games, not really at the refs... but as I've gotten older, I just want to sit back and eat my :popcorn: and enjoy the game.

It used to be well over 2000, they are leaving for whatever reasons very quickly.:Thumbs:

[Patriot train]

every game I have been to this year but two same refs done jv and varsity. your numbers are pretty accurate from the refs I talked to 40 fro jv on avg 75 varsity 40 plus 75 is 115 a nite 38 bucks an hour if 3hrs which some go longer some shorter other nite jv started at 6 varsity was over by 8:40 that one went fast

and then add the hour that it takes to get there, the hour it takes to get home, the fast food you have to eat on the road because you didn't have time to eat with your family after work to get there on time, uniforms, shoes, and the gas that you have to put in your car, the wear and tear on your vehicle, etc. :igiveup:


And if you ref in the 14th region and live in Letcher county and have to drive to Estill county, you have to leave early from work to even get there at all. 2 1/2 hour drive one way!!!! that is 5 hours on the road and back home around midnight or later if you want something to eat afterwards.

[ky playmaker]

and then add the hour that it takes to get there, the hour it takes to get home, the fast food you have to eat on the road because you didn't have time to eat with your family after work to get there on time, uniforms, shoes, and the gas that you have to put in your car, the wear and tear on your vehicle, etc. :igiveup:


And if you ref in the 14th region and live in Letcher county and have to drive to Estill county, you have to leave early from work to even get there at all. 2 1/2 hour drive one way!!!! that is 5 hours on the road and back home around midnight or later if you want something to eat afterwards.

plenty of folks drive an hour or more to work at walmart dc in london for 16-18 an hour and they got to eat somewhere too

[Patriot train]

plenty of folks drive an hour or more to work at walmart dc in london for 16-18 an hour and they got to eat somewhere too

Nothing wrong with that, but I believe we were talking about after your real job! I don't believe that anyone can do high school officiating as a career, unless they are a college student and doing it to help them through college.


Officials usually have about 3-5 games a week depending on how many home games are in the region. Most of the time they receive one varsity game for $70 unless there are a lot of games in the region that particular night and then they may get to do the jv game as well which is an extra $33.33. So yes you can make some ok money if you get both games a couple of times a week. If you choose to be away from home that many hours a week on top of your day job. They also have to pay KHSAA registration fees and Region assigning fees and go to 4 basketball meetings a year minimum, take a 100 question test to call post season games, and do online clinics. some people just think an official shows up and is able to call a game. There is a lot of different things that has to go on before they are allowed to call games. And if you think they are getting rich making that $70 a game about 3 or 4 times a week, that is comical. :biglmao:

[RippVanWrinkle69]

every game I have been to this year but two same refs done jv and varsity. your numbers are pretty accurate from the refs I talked to 40 fro jv on avg 75 varsity 40 plus 75 is 115 a nite 38 bucks an hour if 3hrs which some go longer some shorter other nite jv started at 6 varsity was over by 8:40 that one went fast

13th region does, 14th some times, 12th never, 5th does.

So let’s look at it. Let’s say we do both games together. Tip jv at 6. We drive an hour there and get there at least an hour before game (most regions are mandatory). So we leave at 4 get there at 5. We are 2 hours in already. Jv starts at 6 varsity at 7:30. That’s 1.5 hours. Varsity ends around 9. Now we are at 5 hours. Drive home 1 hour. No food due to tired and just want to get home. So 6 hours minimum. Doing both games on average around 110. 18.34 an hour not bad right? Would you take the job for 18.34 today? If so I’ll send you the link because I’m not doing it.

My point is this we do have some that cheat BUT most don’t. Do they miss calls absolutely. I coached for years and I would get tore up over calls. I have even handed refs rule books. Until one day I seen a young official trying his best. I heard all the fans giving him down the road. He looked at me and said coach I may have missed that one. I couldn’t get in position fast enough. I just looked at him and said son you are doing a great job. Hang in there. Now this young man is calling lower level college ball. Very proud of him and glad we stay in touch. Have a great day everyone and keep in mind THEY ARE HUMANS. This young man goes to two camps and works with younger officials every year. To all the officials on here thank you for your service. Good day to all.

[Rob Ledington]

This is Rob Ledington. I am the athletic director at Lynn Camp, and I’m not hiding behind the name of Superfly, Wonder Woman, or Batman! The post about me having a conversation with a fan/parent in a degrading way toward any official at anytime, is completely false! Furthermore, I would never knowingly allow derogatory or demeaning comments be made toward an official during a contest. It is a shame that someone can hide behind a fake name and commit slander! If u want facts, contact the assigning officials for all sports in the 13th region to verify my statement.... signed Rob Ledington

[ky playmaker]

Nothing wrong with that, but I believe we were talking about after your real job! I don't believe that anyone can do high school officiating as a career, unless they are a college student and doing it to help them through college.


Officials usually have about 3-5 games a week depending on how many home games are in the region. Most of the time they receive one varsity game for $70 unless there are a lot of games in the region that particular night and then they may get to do the jv game as well which is an extra $33.33. So yes you can make some ok money if you get both games a couple of times a week. If you choose to be away from home that many hours a week on top of your day job. They also have to pay KHSAA registration fees and Region assigning fees and go to 4 basketball meetings a year minimum, take a 100 question test to call post season games, and do online clinics. some people just think an official shows up and is able to call a game. There is a lot of different things that has to go on before they are allowed to call games. And if you think they are getting rich making that $70 a game about 3 or 4 times a week, that is comical. :biglmao:

geez nobody said getting rich just said good money for a part time job

[Go Blazers Go]

It is 3 and it is done at the beginning of every season. Refs are allowed to scratch 3 teams and coaches are allowed to scratch 3 refs. Neither is told and it is used very much by both.

RIght now in REgion 2 you can only scratch one official. And the officiating down here is awful. Completely inconsistent. Our game last night was a BRAWL. Unbearable to watch. We had two guys get hit in the head, one on a shot and one when a guy went for a steal, didn't get it and his shoulder hit him in the temple. Had to go out of the game. Both no calls.

About half of the officials in region 2 know what they're doing. The other half is awful.