[diceman]

I love how Trump Jr was trying g to get the dirty stuff on Hillary so we can finally put her in jail.

[TheRealThing]

You confuse the individual with the state. Why am I not surprised. Ah, yet again, you polish your own trophy. Forum Boy.

You confuse the State as being separate from self governance.

And well, if I ever was confused somebody a lot smarter than you would have to explain it to you. :1:

[TheRealThing]

I love how Trump Jr was trying g to get the dirty stuff on Hillary so we can finally put her in jail.

Another day another leak amounting to smoke on a wet log. The Dems keep trying to relight the same old fire, and they won't stop until Pence's run-up.

Don Jr might not be quite ready for liaisons with the Ruskies. He'd need a crash course from Hillary or one of the other Dems first. :biggrin:

[The Urban Sombrero]

You confuse the State as being separate from self governance.

And well, if I ever was confused somebody a lot smarter than you would have to explain it to you. :1:

Sure. Come on over to the Religion Forum. I'll be waiting.

The State = self-governance is a slippery slope. See the Constitution. State's rights is a slippery slope. See the Constitution. Excessive federal power is a slippery slope. See the Constitution. Excessive judicial power is a slippery slope. See the Constitution. You, friendo, are a revisionist.

[TheRealThing]

Sure. Come on over to the Religion Forum. I'll be waiting.

The State = self-governance is a slippery slope. See the Constitution. State's rights is a slippery slope. See the Constitution. Excessive federal power is a slippery slope. See the Constitution. Excessive judicial power is a slippery slope. See the Constitution. You, friendo, are a revisionist.

I don't allow liars to define me. Especially liars who think they can parse God's Word. I am MORE than comfortable in waiting for Him to have that conversation with you.

[The Urban Sombrero]

I don't allow liars to define me. Especially liars who think they can parse God's Word. I am MORE than comfortable in waiting for Him to have that conversation with you.

And, I have confidence as the day approaches. I know whom I have believed. He doesn't hate the poor.

[TheRealThing]

And, I have confidence as the day approaches. I know whom I have believed. He doesn't hate the poor.

Well He certainly doesn't twist the truth and slam His own around the way you try to do, nor does He condone either dismissing parts of His Word or adding to It.
Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV)

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Adding things like some kind of 'great reversal', or omitting, redefining or otherwise making any sort of change WHATEVER.

[The Urban Sombrero]

The last shall be first.
The first shall be last.

I invite anyone to look at the context.

Now, if one goes from first to ladt, and last to first, that is a good-sized reversal, perhaps even great.

[TheRealThing]

The last shall be first.
The first shall be last.

I invite anyone to look at the context.

Now, if one goes from first to ladt, and last to first, that is a good-sized reversal, perhaps even great.

All men have sinned and come short of the glory of God, there is zero distinction attached to the size on one's bank account. It's whether one loves money or not and you can love a hundred dollars just as much as a million. There is no great reversal and I only made mention of it because it is an example of one of the heresies in which you have evidently based your faith.

[The Urban Sombrero]

All men have sinned and come short of the glory of God, there is zero distinction attached to the size on one's bank account. It's whether one loves money or not and you can love a hundred dollars just as much as a million. There is no great reversal and I only made mention of it because it is an example of one of the heresies in which you have evidently based your faith.

That is your interpretation. Of course, were we on the religion forum, we could discuss any number of verses YOU would have to explain away.

[TheRealThing]

That is your interpretation. Of course, were we on the religion forum, we could discuss any number of verses YOU would have to explain away.

It is my interpretation as has been revealed by the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures, as it is similarly to a number of great theologians across time.
I've shot you down in every way possible in the past and I am not about to rehabilitate you in some grand rehash of your heresies. The bedrock of your understanding is nothing more profound than a collection of your own rationalizations which I have, always using Scripture, demonstrated to be wrong.

In any case using the Scriptures, I have posted on BGR extensively. God has said His Word will not return unto Him void and I will face Him one day for the things I have said. Frankly, I'd much rather be in my shoes than yours. But you go ahead on over to the religion forum and post anything you want.
Matthew 12:36-37 (KJV)
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

[The Urban Sombrero]

It is my interpretation as has been revealed by the Holy Spirit and the Scriptures, as it is similarly to a number of great theologians across time.
I've shot you down in every way possible in the past and I am not about to rehabilitate you in some grand rehash of your heresies. The bedrock of your understanding is nothing more profound than a collection of your own rationalizations which I have, always using Scripture, demonstrated to be wrong.

In any case using the Scriptures, I have posted on BGR extensively. God has said His Word will not return unto Him void and I will face Him one day for the things I have said. Frankly, I'd much rather be in my shoes than yours. But you go ahead on over to the religion forum and post anything you want.
Matthew 12:36-37 (KJV)
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Every person who ever violated freedom of conscience "in the name of God," did it on the "authority" of some Scripture or another. You use words like "rehabilitate" because you are a Peacock, plain and simple.

Idle speech? In private conversation, would I engage a ssme-sex person in a discussion about missing the mark of God's high calling? I would. If asked to give an opinion, would I say Scripture calls homosexuality sin? I would. As a civil matter, would I use the State to deny equal protection under the law? I would not. Do what you need to, but you continually demonstrate Forum Boy, insecure Peacocking.

[TheRealThing]

Every person who ever violated freedom of conscience "in the name of God," did it on the "authority" of some Scripture or another. You use words like "rehabilitate" because you are a Peacock, plain and simple.

Idle speech? In private conversation, would I engage a ssme-sex person in a discussion about missing the mark of God's high calling? I would. If asked to give an opinion, would I say Scripture calls homosexuality sin? I would. As a civil matter, would I use the State to deny equal protection under the law? I would not. Do what you need to, but you continually demonstrate Forum Boy, insecure Peacocking.

You're continually saying politics wags my faith, which is a lie, then you do exactly that. One can mix the things of God into the political arena, and should. One cannot mix the things of politics in the religious arena, hence Jefferson's attempt to protect the Church. But in any case, The Lord will have a lot to say about anybody who dares to try that.

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[TheRealThing]

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drip drip drip drip drip

So which was it, thick smoke or dripping? You said the drips were causing thick smoke, or did I miss something?

[The Urban Sombrero]

You're continually saying politics wags my faith, which is a lie, then you do exactly that. One can mix the things of God into the political arena, and should. One cannot mix the things of politics in the religious arena, hence Jefferson's attempt to protect the Church. But in any case, The Lord will have a lot to say about anybody who dares to try that.

You have this revisionist view of "America" as the new Israel (I guess) and act like Scripture says nothing about civil government, though Gentile believers were under nothing but. We have no disagreement, Sir, about Christ. We do have a disagreement about the inclusiveness of Constitutional principles and the role of a Constitutional democracy as it relates to matters of faith.

[TheRealThing]

You have this revisionist view of "America" as the new Israel (I guess) and act like Scripture says nothing about civil government, though Gentile believers were under nothing but. We have no disagreement, Sir, about Christ. We do have a disagreement about the inclusiveness of Constitutional principles and the role of a Constitutional democracy as it relates to matters of faith.

A profound disagreement actually. The US government to your ilk, frames some sort of secular sanctuary, where vices and vitriol are dressed up as being patriotic and protected among the unalienable rights conferred upon men by no less an Authority, than Almighty God Himself. But your premise is quite a stretch, and that's really saying something when speaking of you who has built for himself a rebellious life rationale, in which men are somehow afforded of their own volition, a little something extra above that of forgiveness through repentance. The Founders made no such attempt to compartmentalize the secular from the spiritual, and any assertions to the contrary are nothing more than the lies of the guilty of conscience. If you knew anything about John Locke and his influence on our founding you'd know that.

But you seem to see man in his lost state as some sort of brotherhood special interests. In the sanctuary you've carved out in your imagination, sin is a shared sweet sorrow of which God will understand somehow, and will wind up relenting His hard line regarding universal judgment, and join with man one day to celebrate the commonness of his own frailty and short fall. I guess, - another of my colloquialisms which seems to have found it's way into your utility, you must have missed the part of His Word in which all of mankind are summarily born into a state in which they are proclaimed automatically condemned to eternal hell, and must choose their way out of that state via the death of Christ on the cross; But only by grace through faith. Or is that one of the parts you dismiss?

You Sir, are blind to the truth. The charter of the Church and of every child of God, is to point the lost to Christ. Helping the sick, the infirm, the poor, the naked and the hungry is part of it, but none of those things will deliver a soul from the fires of hell. Only a saving knowledge of Jesus will do that, and is only accomplished through what the Bible says is the "foolishness of preaching."

Additionally, you who love to falsely analogize about 'hand counting,' would seek to validate your self imposed misinterpretations, ironically by the dishonest addition of 'hands,' (ala the revisionist message) saying the Founder's views actually match your own, and not the traditionalists of the historical record. But keep trying because after the Rapture, the Church will be gone, as will the Holy Spirit, and you guys can pass godless legislation like there ain't no tomorrow. Of course, owing to the relatively short duration of the Great Tribulation, there very nearly won't be a tomorrow. But for a short time, man will reign here, and his supreme leader will be Antichrist.

[The Urban Sombrero]

⬆

"And this is the verdict (judgment): that God sent His light into the world but the world preferred darkness." We are not condemned for possessing a nature at birth unreconciled, as in this we had no choice. However, well, the verse is clear.

Again, recognizing freedom of conscience and delighting in choices made are separate things. Now, granted, the Founder's were not a monolithic block of solid opinion, and most, if not all, were of a landed gentry sort, yet interpreting the Constitution in the highest reading of pluralism and equality and protection under the law, if it be revisionist (it is not), is a necessary corrective to slavery and Jim Crow and other atrocities carried out whilst the Constitution was the supreme governing document of our nation.

[TheRealThing]

⬆

"And this is the verdict (judgment): that God sent His light into the world but the world preferred darkness." We are not condemned for possessing a nature at birth unreconciled, as in this we had no choice. However, well, the verse is clear.

Again, recognizing freedom of conscience and delighting in choices made are separate things. Now, granted, the Founder's were not a monolithic block of solid opinion, and most, if not all, were of a landed gentry sort, yet interpreting the Constitution in the highest reading of pluralism and equality and protection under the law, if it be revisionist (it is not), is a necessary corrective to slavery and Jim Crow and other atrocities carried out whilst the Constitution was the supreme governing document of our nation.

The verse of which you speak is talking about Jesus Christ, whom this world rejected, preferring darkness. Darkness, in the form of men supposing themselves to be wise enough to discern a path to eternal life which is different from the following... Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


But wow, you are one scrambled egg omelet! By one man (Adam) sin was passed to all men AT BIRTH. Romans 5:12 (KJV)
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I knew you were messed up, and the more you reveal the more messed up you prove yourself to clearly be. Anybody tricked by such heresy is lost, and the blood of anybody you've influenced with the nonsense you just posted, is on your hands.

And your assessment of the persons of the Founders and their intentions, is even farther out in space. Bringing the same old things back up again, over and over, doesn't make your positions any more firm. It just means you are untrainable. Nobody on here will be converted to your constitutional lunacies, but you'll keep trying. I've shot your ridiculous arguments down enough times already.