[The Urban Sombrero]

A big recommend for a book: J. D. Vance spent a lot of his childhood in Breathitt County. His book HILLBILLY ELEGY: A MEMOIR OF A FAMILY AND CULTURE IN CRISIS is thoughtful and outstanding.

Also, J.D. is a conservative who despises cultural elitism so often practiced by the Left.

[mr.fundamental]

I am reading this right now!

[The Urban Sombrero]

I am reading this right now!

I just finished: when you get done, holler and we'll chat up this thread on our impressions.

[mr.fundamental]

Wow! What a book. I thought it was a great insight on what we see in our everyday life. The book poses more questions than answers. I also completely understand the Trump perspective and how he appeals to the folks in our area. I also think that the majority of the folks that voted for him are not conservative in the traditional sense. I am impressed by his openness to confront the reality of so many of our friends and neighbors.

[The Urban Sombrero]

There is a line in Frost's DEATH OF THE HIRED MAN: "Nothing to look backward to in pride//Nothing to look forward to with hope//so now and never any different."

With all the issues of abandonment, betrayal, rejection, abuse, being shut in and/or shut out, Vance does a good job, in my view, of portraying the challenges children face growing up in the midst of drug abuse and social and personal dysfunction, with poverty sitting right in the middle of all of it. "Mamaw" sure rings true. We've all had contact with a person like that.

It seems to me that Vance was given the gift of relative stability and security at the most pivotal point in his young life: a mamaw who was in his corner, demanded he take interest in his "schooling," and then a few teachers who grabbed his attention and directed his focus. That's a lesson to bureaucrats and policy wonks about how HUGE interpersonal relationships and home life and quality teachers factor into the educational experience of every student.

Each one of us is a complicated mess and mixture of heredity, environment, and personal response. For children not blessed with even a remotely positive and supportive environment, HILLBILLY ELEGY brings out a lot of useful pause for thought. I agree: super good book.

[mr.fundamental]

So do you think we should go back to the times of boarding houses? I am being serious of this, we know the environment many of our children come from, so to break that environment would we be better off in like an OBI as an example. I don't think there is a silver bullet that comes and solves everything. Just pondering ideas out loud...

[The Urban Sombrero]

So do you think we should go back to the times of boarding houses? I am being serious of this, we know the environment many of our children come from, so to break that environment would we be better off in like an OBI as an example. I don't think there is a silver bullet that comes and solves everything. Just pondering ideas out loud...

The further we get from a Mom and a Dad that love, support, provide and discipline a child, the tougher it gets to manufacture solutions. I do not believe boarding houses and schools are a realistic solution across the culture. "If you ain't never been the apple of nobody's eye, it's pretty tough in this world to figure out your life matters."

[jetpilot]

Read this book when it first came out and enjoyed it (mostly for the awesome vulgar grandmother lol) but I have kind of have a different view than most. Most of my respect is for the grandparents rather than the kid. He grew up in a family that wasn't the Cunninghams or the Cleavers and he still managed to graduate from college. Millions of people have done this under his conditions and much worse. Millions have done quite well also without ever having graduated from college, again with similar conditions as his and worse. So his situation is not at all unique. What I find more interesting is how the Ivy League liberals turned his mind to liberal mush. His "uneducated" grandmother for sure and probably his grandfather would have thought his classmates and professors were idiots.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Read this book when it first came out and enjoyed it (mostly for the awesome vulgar grandmother lol) but I have kind of have a different view than most. Most of my respect is for the grandparents rather than the kid. He grew up in a family that wasn't the Cunninghams or the Cleavers and he still managed to graduate from college. Millions of people have done this under his conditions and much worse. Millions have done quite well also without ever having graduated from college, again with similar conditions as his and worse. So his situation is not at all unique. What I find more interesting is how the Ivy League liberals turned his mind to liberal mush. His "uneducated" grandmother for sure and probably his grandfather would have thought his classmates and professors were idiots.

He is a conservative who despises cultural elitism. Is your reaction to him an assumption, or based on beliefs he expresses in the book? Could you give a couple of examples of "liberal mush" of which you refer?

[jetpilot]

He is a conservative who despises cultural elitism. Is your reaction to him an assumption, or based on beliefs he expresses in the book? Could you give a couple of examples of "liberal mush" of which you refer?

He says Obama is the most admired person in America as he is writing the book and goes even further to say Obama probably still is. There are more but I am on a mobile device. Also can't read a pm a very esteemed poster sent me but I will when I get home.

[The Urban Sombrero]

He says Obama is the most admired person in America as he is writing the book and goes even further to say Obama probably still is. There are more but I am on a mobile device. Also can't read a pm a very esteemed poster sent me but I will when I get home.

Not sure that Vance was advocating for Obama in that passage as much as observing cultural trends and phenomenons. If you read after Vance, he pretty clearly states and evidences a dislike, if not disdain, for leftist cultural elitism.

However, in my view, it is not "liberal mush" to observe that some folks are not so much born into the world as doomed into it by a very adverse environment. I do not think Vance is suggesting that only government programs can assist, as his own grit coupled with several people who cared certainly lifted him from very difficult circumstances.

I also do not think Vance was tooting some kind of "been there and done that" Ivy League horn, as if going to Yale somehow separated him from all things poverty and all things Appalachia. I did not read it that way at all.

[mr.fundamental]

I didn't either. I thought it was a great reflection on his life. I do agree with jetpilot the hero in the story is grandma. It is a common state anymore to see grandparents raising children. It is a sad state, and one that is proving to be difficult especially with the emergence of new technologies.