[TheRealThing]

Well, at long last, short of an armed coup d' etat, the seemingly unending parade of dirty-tricksmanship aimed at unseating a legitimately elected US President has for lack of options, come to an end. The unholy alliance of #NeverTrump and the looney left have no quasi-legal options left, nor any dignity for that matter. And any plausible pretense or illusion on which Dems could have drawn to sway public opinion citing Jefferson et-al, have evaporated like mist. A similarly strong indictment has been visited on the doorstep of Republican elites such as Rich Low-ry, even Mitch McConnell, John McCain and Lindsey Graham have sufficiently 'outed' themselves. Not to mention an ever wavering Paul Ryan.

The argument being delivered by well-meaning conservatives states that the left can't quite understand that they lost, and therefore all the shenanigans to include their national effort to get the electors to vote for Hillary. I don't accept that position. Dems know full well they lost and why, as I suspect they know that calling for electors to defraud the will of the voter is a kind of legislative overthrow of the Republic. The media has been very obliging to the end of providing cover for these guys, and I believe it is time to start to at least call a spade a spade.

What we are seeing is not an intellectual or constitutional battle of words, it is the ongoing age-old war for the hearts of men that started way back in the Garden of Eden. In the secular sense we're seeing what happens when a nation turns her back on God and men attempt to 'do it their own way.' As I have often said, the US was founded on Christian principles, and the obedience of her people have historically brought blessing to this land though I believe said blessing is today, notably eroded. So this then is the latest battle in the war between good and evil, and has spilled (naturally) over into the political arena. The collision between written law, (the norm) and the recent activist mandates and legislation (fallout of the left's so-called 'hope and change') have been manifest in the attitudes of our legislators and the background machinations by them in this election. But like I said, though couched in the guise of intellectualism, the argument is anything but intellectual.
Romans 10:10 (KJV)
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Like it or not, people are choosing sides. It is the social justice agenda versus the authority of God's Word. Libs line up on the social justice side, which seems right enough to them. While Christians and those who are influenced (like DJT) by the tenets of Christianity, line up with the traditionally conservative values of our noble past. And the contempt is palpable. With the heart man chooses one side or the other. Some the things of God, some the things of the world. Hence the reason that we are all here, to make that choice, and Constitutions notwithstanding, the world is set in prophecy at some near point to unravel. If you ask me the process has already begun. In other words it is a little naïve to think that the people of this land can be insulated by choice or otherwise, from the ramifications of the afore mentioned 'boiling pot,' by an imaginary albeit misinterpreted, wall of separation between Church and State.

No, there is no door number 3 this time as there is only one foundation for truth, and it is built on the person and authority of Jesus Christ. All other options (no matter how cleverly stated) fall into just one category, rebellion against the Living God. Thus the rewriting of our statutes might make men feel better for the moment, but it all amounts to little more than wishful thinking.

The right though critical of the present administration, suffering with patience waited dutifully 8 years for their chance to change things legally through the elective process. Now comes the actions of the minority left, and they have proven to be far less patriotic IMHO. All Christians should be praying daily about all this because 'the people' are falling short in their efforts to right the ship.

[The Urban Sombrero]

🔼🔼

That exemplifies a Christian Reconstructionist's take on the election of Donald Trump.

It reads like the Divine Right of Kings has channeled into American politics and miraculously guided DJT into the Presidency. The man himself, his life, his actual values, these do not matter. His public pronouncements are what matter. He may be a devil in private, a coward and a swindler, but if he publicly identifies with stances and positions agreeable to TRT, all that is forgotten. This perfectly dovetails with and evidences why TRT has no interest in applying the four points of analysis to the Founders.

It is as if Jesus were to meet a young Donald Trump on the road and search his heart by telling him to sell all his possessions and give to the poor so that he might follow. But. he goes away sorrowful, continues on to amass fortune and lands, leaves behind wives, gains a thirst for power, and runs for office with the help of believers in a Christ he did not choose, still clinging to all the assets, though divesture is called for Constitutionally.

[TheRealThing]

LOL, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the folks who manage to actually get through your last paragraph, will come away shaking their heads. But still, I cannot allow your preachy distortions about Christ to go unchallenged. The only reason Christ told the rich young ruler to sell all that he had, give it to the poor and take up his cross and follow Him, was because of what the young ruler had said. He claimed that he had observed all of God's commandments from his youth. At that point The Lord pointed out his love of wealth, which he realized at that moment was something he just could not give up. Thus money and not The Lord was first in his life, which of course violated the very first Commandment Exodus 20:3 (KJV)
"V3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
I can assure you this, if I, you, DJT or George Soros would sell all that we have and give it to the poor expecting it to guarantee our place in heaven, we'd all be wrong. Giving to or helping the poor is noble to be sure, but it won't change one thing at the Judgment.

I believe your time would be better spent in honoring Christ, and less being a left wing apologist and in trying to make yourself look better by trying to bring me down personally. But that's just me.

Listen, the Democrats made their deal with the devil and he has come to collect. Since the rise of Obama in 2008, Dems have lost over 900 seats in the various state legislatures, 12 Governorships, 63 seats in the House of Representatives, and 10 in the US Senate. The coup de grâce being the merciful departure of Obama and the Democrats from the Oval Office in a scant 31 days from now. There is a problem with the Lucifer's rationale in "Paradise Lost," in which he stated "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." The founders recognized man's authority and only hope to successfully self govern, could come only from God, their Creator. Theirs' was the example of service and sacrifice, not demands for welfare and identity politics.

BTW, did you know that George Washington inherited his family's wealth and considerable land holdings before he became President? And guess what he did not do, divest.

[The Urban Sombrero]

LOL, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the folks who manage to actually get through your last paragraph, will come away shaking their heads. But still, I cannot allow your preachy distortions about Christ to go unchallenged. The only reason Christ told the rich young ruler to sell all that he had, give it to the poor and take up his cross and follow Him, was because of what the young ruler had said. He claimed that he had observed all of God's commandments from his youth. At that point The Lord pointed out his love of wealth, which he realized at that moment was something he just could not give up. Thus money and not The Lord was first in his life, which of course violated the very first Commandment Exodus 20:3 (KJV)
"V3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
I can assure you this, if I, you, DJT or George Soros would sell all that we have and give it to the poor expecting it to guarantee our place in heaven, we'd all be wrong. Giving to or helping the poor is noble to be sure, but it won't change one thing at the Judgment.

I believe your time would be better spent in honoring Christ, and less being a left wing apologist and in trying to make yourself look better by trying to bring me down personally. But that's just me.

Listen, the Democrats made their deal with the devil and he has come to collect. Since the rise of Obama in 2008, Dems have lost over 900 seats in the various state legislatures, 12 Governorships, 63 seats in the House of Representatives, and 10 in the US Senate. The coup de grâce being the merciful departure of Obama and the Democrats from the Oval Office in a scant 31 days from now. There is a problem with the Lucifer's rationale in "Paradise Lost," in which he stated "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." The founders recognized man's authority and only hope to successfully self govern, could come only from God, their Creator. Theirs' was the example of service and sacrifice, not demands for welfare and identity politics.

BTW, did you know that George Washington inherited his family's wealth and considerable land holdings before he became President? And guess what he did not do, divest.

The Emoluments Clause was crafted to prevent just the kinds of situations DJT's holdings may well present. Dance all you want, but that's the skinny.

I am no more a left wing apologist than you are an accurate historian. BTW, George Washington, when checked against accurate history, was influenced greatly by Deism. That's not left nor right: it is accurate.

As for Christ's meeting with the rich young ruler, unless you are being scurrilously minisculist, you don't miss the larger point.

[TheRealThing]

The Emoluments Clause was crafted to prevent just the kinds of situations DJT's holdings may well present. Dance all you want, but that's the skinny.

I am no more a left wing apologist than you are an accurate historian. BTW, George Washington, when checked against accurate history, was influenced greatly by Deism. That's not left nor right: it is accurate.

As for Christ's meeting with the rich young ruler, unless you are being scurrilously minisculist, you don't miss the larger point.

Right, only know-nothings from among the politically elite class can be President. :please: That was the problem with the present administration as a virtual coronation took place for our first black President. Meeting the left wing requirements for social engineering was the priority, so enter one Barack Obama. An ideologue's ideologue and an academic whose credential has yet to be validated. The fact that he was lacking in any practical world experience as far as business or even working for a business, national defense, state sovereignty, or a vague familiarity with the concept of serving the common good, has been overlooked and argued away and tremendous loss has overwhelmed this nation as the result. Your dissing of Washington and his holdings while serving as this nation's first President is nothing if not the typical revisionist torture of the record. In a word it's a pack of lies. But just to prove that no fact be it historical or present is too impactful to be summarily ignored by the left, we saw that as recently as yesterday they were still hopeful by some further miracle of deceit that they could still bestow another liberal coronation upon one Hillary Clinton.

As fate would have it, I happen to have an educational background in history. Any historian will tell you that one has to be wary of a thing called a textbook. The contents of most modern editions are filled with the surmisings of the revisionist. So the fact that you can find support from those who lied to you in the first place hardly cuts much ice with me.

You are a dogged left wing apologist and a denier of the faith. Never do you shrink back from an opportunity to deny the power and the purview of God's unmistakable influence on the founding of this nation. Even if that means avowing that for which there exists no proof in the record. I mean, who but a progressive liberal revisionist could deny plain English? I posted the record, you post only the guileful propaganda and protestations of a man who cannot accept the truth.

The larger point you made with regard to your Sombrable, was to point out that giving to the poor is some kind of redemptive work. Which of course is not the case, though it is a characteristic of the true Church. But since you alluded to parables one does come to mind here;
Matthew 13:24-30 (KJV)
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Works are laudable but they do not necessarily lead to salvation.

[TheRealThing]

Define hysterical--- After all the snot slinging, public outcries, TV appearances, brouhaha and who knows how much wasted money, only two electors switched from Trump to Clinton. But ever so quietly, 5 sneaky Hillary electors switched their votes over to Trump for free. :hilarious:

[The Urban Sombrero]

Right, only know-nothings from among the politically elite class can be President. :please: That was the problem with the present administration as a virtual coronation took place for our first black President. Meeting the left wing requirements for social engineering was the priority, so enter one Barack Obama. An ideologue's ideologue and an academic whose credential has yet to be validated. The fact that he was lacking in any practical world experience as far as business or even working for a business, national defense, state sovereignty, or a vague familiarity with the concept of serving the common good, has been overlooked and argued away and tremendous loss has overwhelmed this nation as the result. Your dissing of Washington and his holdings while serving as this nation's first President is nothing if not the typical revisionist torture of the record. In a word it's a pack of lies. But just to prove that no fact be it historical or present is too impactful to be summarily ignored by the left, we saw that as recently as yesterday they were still hopeful by some further miracle of deceit that they could still bestow another liberal coronation upon one Hillary Clinton.

As fate would have it, I happen to have an educational background in history. Any historian will tell you that one has to be wary of a thing called a textbook. The contents of most modern editions are filled with the surmisings of the revisionist. So the fact that you can find support from those who lied to you in the first place hardly cuts much ice with me.

You are a dogged left wing apologist and a denier of the faith. Never do you shrink back from an opportunity to deny the power and the purview of God's unmistakable influence on the founding of this nation. Even if that means avowing that for which there exists no proof in the record. I mean, who but a progressive liberal revisionist could deny plain English? I posted the record, you post only the guileful propaganda and protestations of a man who cannot accept the truth.

The larger point you made with regard to your Sombrable, was to point out that giving to the poor is some kind of redemptive work. Which of course is not the case, though it is a characteristic of the true Church. But since you alluded to parables one does come to mind here;
Matthew 13:24-30 (KJV)
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Works are laudable but they do not necessarily lead to salvation.

Faith without works is dead; works without faith is secular.

The larger point is that the rich young ruler, though he saw in Christ something of interest, was so clutched by his wealth and great possessions, by "lust of the eye" and "pride of life" that he walked away sorrowful. One hopes that our President Elect is not similarly clutched, thereby endangering the nation because he puts his own interests, and the interests of the billionaire class as paramount.

It is very odd to me that you would posit as a "denier of the faith" one who believes in essential liberty and freedom of conscience. I fear your refusal to make fine distinctions renders you of the spirit that participated in the Salem Witch trials and other such abominations which history records in defense of "purity of faith" and "orthodoxy."

[TheRealThing]

Faith without works is dead; works without faith is secular.

The larger point is that the rich young ruler, though he saw in Christ something of interest, was so clutched by his wealth and great possessions, by "lust of the eye" and "pride of life" that he walked away sorrowful. One hopes that our President Elect is not similarly clutched, thereby endangering the nation because he puts his own interests, and the interests of the billionaire class as paramount.

It is very odd to me that you would posit as a "denier of the faith" one who believes in essential liberty and freedom of conscience. I fear your refusal to make fine distinctions renders you of the spirit that participated in the Salem Witch trials and other such abominations which history records in defense of "purity of faith" and "orthodoxy."

Well I hate to tell you but your 'clutch' is slipping. I'll not give your spiritual non-argument here any further unmerited credence. Your 'endangering the nation' libel however, is worth a go. According to you Hillary, who reportedly put the office of the US Secretary of State up for sale which benefited Bill's foundation based pay to play schemes, were excusable as being normal DC behavior.

DJT mega billionaire on the other hand, who couldn't begin to spend all his money in two lifetimes and who will not accept a paycheck while he is President, and who financed in no small degree his run up to the White House with his own money, is a danger to the nation because he is evidently in this for the money? :dudecomeon:

[The Urban Sombrero]

Well I hate to tell you but your 'clutch' is slipping. I'll not give your spiritual non-argument here any further unmerited credence. Your 'endangering the nation' libel however, is worth a go. According to you Hillary, who reportedly put the office of the US Secretary of State up for sale which benefited Bill's foundation based pay to play schemes, were excusable as being normal DC behavior.

DJT mega billionaire on the other hand, who couldn't begin to spend all his money in two lifetimes and who will not accept a paycheck while he is President, and who financed in no small degree his run up to the White House with his own money, is a danger to the nation because he is evidently in this for the money? :dudecomeon:

Have you ever known a really rich dude who said, "Enough."?

The matter of "I'll take no salary," how does that impact the discussion? It's irrelevant.

The whole "I did it with my money" has been overblown. We both know that.

If you hold that "lust of flesh" and "pride of life" had nothing to do with the rich young ruler, that's your own spiritual illiteracy, and perhaps you need a "non-credence" revival of your cranial waters.

Your belief is, I guess, that the billionaire class can be trusted to have America's best interest at heart more than the political class. I would hope that you are right, but history doesn't give much cause for hope.

[TheRealThing]

Have you ever known a really rich dude who said, "Enough."?

The matter of "I'll take no salary," how does that impact the discussion? It's irrelevant.

The whole "I did it with my money" has been overblown. We both know that.

If you hold that "lust of flesh" and "pride of life" had nothing to do with the rich young ruler, that's your own spiritual illiteracy, and perhaps you need a "non-credence" revival of your cranial waters.

Your belief is, I guess, that the billionaire class can be trusted to have America's best interest at heart more than the political class. I would hope that you are right, but history doesn't give much cause for hope.

Have you ever even known a really rich guy?

You don't get to decide what is and isn't relevant for others, but ignoring the facts in favor of feelings is after all, the manner of the lib.

That's the revisionist spirit!

Right, lust of the flesh and the pride of life had nothing to do with it. Better to need revival than renaissance.

My beliefs are as clearly posted on here over time. I guess I must have missed the part where history proves that billionaires as a class cannot be trusted, but today's corrupt and misguided politicians can. :biglmao:

[Stardust]

Umm, aren't they all Billionaires?

[TheRealThing]

Umm, aren't they all Billionaires?

LOL if not, when compared to me or any of my friends they are!

[The Urban Sombrero]

Have you ever even known a really rich guy?

You don't get to decide what is and isn't relevant for others, but ignoring the facts in favor of feelings is after all, the manner of the lib.

That's the revisionist spirit!

Right, lust of the flesh and the pride of life had nothing to do with it. Better to need revival than renaissance.

My beliefs are as clearly posted on here over time. I guess I must have missed the part where history proves that billionaires as a class cannot be trusted, but today's corrupt and misguided politicians can. :biglmao:

Lust of the eye and pride of life had a lot to do with why he did not follow. Riches are not an end unto themselves. In this world they garner many things--things which mattered a great deal to the rich young ruler.

Your lecture about ignoring facts is funny, seeing as you so often distort them and/or ignore them.

Your entire mode of debate is one straw man after another. You must have attended Bob Jones.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Umm, aren't they all Billionaires?

Umm, no.

[TheRealThing]

Lust of the eye and pride of life had a lot to do with why he did not follow. Riches are not an end unto themselves. In this world they garner many things--things which mattered a great deal to the rich young ruler.

Your lecture about ignoring facts is funny, seeing as you so often distort them and/or ignore them.

Your entire mode of debate is one straw man after another. You must have attended Bob Jones.

- Again you make statements for which you cannot supply any evidentiary support or even establish a cursory foundation. If what you're saying is true, the Scriptural text would reveal it. I mean, if just saying stuff makes it real my Christmas list is about to be fulfilled, and all that gas Obama blew the last 8 years would have some substance rather than only consequence. But that's why they say 'talk is cheap' I guess.

- Your pretense is what's funny, and I can't imagine anybody is buying it. If I want to flush you out of the woodwork, all I have to do is point out what is abundantly obvious to any Christian. Just look at the way you came charging into this thread calling Trump a devil, a coward and a swindler. All of which BTW you can no more substantiate than you can your continual eruptions about the fiction which is essential liberty. Like Old Faithful, though your steaming spate is furious and dependable, it always lacks substance and the inevitable take away is therefore always nothing.

- I always back up my statements with source information. So now it's time for you to prove what you've said, or admit that like so many of your left-wing kindred, all you really have to offer are the talking points and opinions which you have picked up on Obama.org. On second thought why even bother? You've had nothing but excuses and mitigations to offer for the cast and fortunes of the present administration, while you've had nothing but caustic innuendo to offer on behalf of the person of our next President. And though it has been a demonstrably foreign concept to you, the record is clear on this matter as it is for the rest of your arguments.