[WideRight05]

Just let the thought of being in a full blown war with Hillary in charge soak in for a minute. Especially considering who all it could be against.

Oh I've thought about it off and on the past four years. It's frightening. The way our whole society is going right now, it's frightening. Even George Washington wouldn't be able to turn around this mess we are in.

Regardless of whether or not Hillary ends up scaring me bad enough to cast a vote for Donald Trump, I feel like our society has gone too far off the deep end now and we can only hope that we turn back. I honestly believed our society (despite electing Barack Obama twice) would still be smart enough to hang in and come to its senses before being fundamentally transformed, but I was wrong there.

[Demarcus ware]

Have you considered the lesson in anti-logic being put forth by the left in opposition to the wall? According to them, the illegals will figure out some way around it whether by water or a tunnel or some equally desperate method.

That's fine, let them try. The point is if there are choke points at which they'd concentrate their efforts, would not those points be far easier to police than thousands of miles of open range? :please:

How dare you use common sense sir!! nicker:

[The Urban Sombrero]

How dare you use common sense sir!! nicker:

Blaming the immigrant for the ills of a society does not have a pretty history. It is our nation's leaders, blue and red suits, that kick the can constantly down the road on responsible, just immigration reform, and they often do so for political gain, or out of political fear. To refuse to deal with tough immigration issues so as to exploit a large and growing constituency, or to fear a just, responsible, equitable immigration policy will be exploited to alienate a constituency? Both view only coming elections, not coming generations.

[Demarcus ware]

Oh I've thought about it off and on the past four years. It's frightening. The way our whole society is going right now, it's frightening. Even George Washington wouldn't be able to turn around this mess we are in.

Regardless of whether or not Hillary ends up scaring me bad enough to cast a vote for Donald Trump, I feel like our society has gone too far off the deep end now and we can only hope that we turn back. I honestly believed our society (despite electing Barack Obama twice) would still be smart enough to hang in and come to its senses before being fundamentally transformed, but I was wrong there.

You and I have discussed this before. It's no secret that i'm voting for Trump due to Immigration and jobs. I look at Hillary and all i see is Immigration getting worse. I'm sure there are others on here as well, but i spent a total of over 4 years in the Middle East, I've seen truly how bad it can be. If people want to vote for Hillary that's their choice, i can sit back and watch as our women are being stoned, gays thrown off rooftops, or people beheaded just because they have different beliefs. What's amazing too me, is that there are so many people that think there is so much good in the world. In the words of Loretta Lynch, we need comfort and love to defeat ISIS. Hahaha. Yeah let's see her walk through Fallujah Iraq giving out hugs and see how that works out for her. When the crap hits the fan i know i can sit here and say to the people voting for Hillary, I told ya so..

I'm not one to sit and tell people who they should and shouldn't vote for, that's for the people that have control issues in their life, and think everyone should listen to them. Unless i'm trolling and usually that's on another site or Twitter. As for Trump, with the way the world is right now, and i agree, we may have come too far at this point, but with Trump, I'll take him over Hillary any day. She can't even secure her email, and the public is supposed to believe she can secure this country? Not that she wants to but she can't. So i say to everyone, always be aware of your surroundings, you just never know when that next attack is coming :biggrin:

[The Urban Sombrero]

⬆⬆ Just so I am clear: based on your experience in the Middle East, you are suggesting that a vote for Hillary Clinton is a guarantee that American women will be stoned, American homosexuals will be thrown off rooftops, and American citizens will be beheaded? That jihadism will so take over this country that sharia law will commandeer the Constitution?

[Demarcus ware]

⬆⬆ Just so I am clear: based on your experience in the Middle East, you are suggesting that a vote for Hillary Clinton is a guarantee that American women will be stoned, American homosexuals will be thrown off rooftops, and American citizens will be beheaded? That jihadism will so take over this country that sharia law will commandeer the Constitution?

I take it you've never been to Dearborn, MI have you? Didn't think so.

[The Urban Sombrero]

I take it you've never been to Dearborn, MI have you? Didn't think so.

You didn't answer my question, though you answered your own for me.

[Demarcus ware]

You didn't answer my question, though you answered your own for me.

No not by my experiences but more by the fact that Hillary is owned by the Middle East. Want to see Sharia law in person, take a trip to Dearborn, they will love you. Love you so much in fact, they will throw rocks at you. Unless you are Muslim, in which case you would fit right in.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Dearborn, Michigan, is no more immune to fundamentalist geopolitical radicalism than anywhere else, but to suggest that that city is governed outside the bounds of the Constitution is propoganda at best.

[TheRealThing]

Blaming the immigrant for the ills of a society does not have a pretty history. It is our nation's leaders, blue and red suits, that kick the can constantly down the road on responsible, just immigration reform, and they often do so for political gain, or out of political fear. To refuse to deal with tough immigration issues so as to exploit a large and growing constituency, or to fear a just, responsible, equitable immigration policy will be exploited to alienate a constituency? Both view only coming elections, not coming generations.

What a load of baloney. We have immigration laws that would serve us just fine if they were ever enforced. And of course, the reason that they are not enforced is because the member nations of the EU have all gone to open borders and heaven knows we like they, want to be free traders. :please:

Globalization is the scourge, not border control. Everybody who is here illegally should be subject to deportation if they for at least two reasons, first if they cannot get it together and find a job to support themselves and secondly, if they should fall into a life of crime. No tears, just goodbye.

[Demarcus ware]

Dearborn, Michigan, is no more immune to fundamentalist geopolitical radicalism than anywhere else, but to suggest that that city is governed outside the bounds of the Constitution is propoganda at best.

Says the guy that's never been there to actually witness it. Lol. Keep thinking the world is right. Your fantasyland bubble will burst someday. The only propaganda I've seen is from the dems, but like I said I'm fine with whatever happens. For you to be putting so much weight on everyone following the constitution tells me everything I need to know. Carry on, the purple unicorns are waiting on you.

[The Urban Sombrero]

"The only propoganda I've seen is from the dems." And you are pontificating about purple unicorns?

[The Urban Sombrero]

What a load of baloney. We have immigration laws that would serve us just fine if they were ever enforced. And of course, the reason that they are not enforced is because the member nations of the EU have all gone to open borders and heaven knows we like they, want to be free traders. :please:

Globalization is the scourge, not border control. Everybody who is here illegally should be subject to deportation if they for at least two reasons, first if they cannot get it together and find a job to support themselves and secondly, if they should fall into a life of crime. No tears, just goodbye.

The totality of our immigration and naturalization process needs to be reformed to reflect the geopolitical circumstances we now face. "Just enforce the laws we have" sounds great, but it is ineffectual, and that inefficiency is partly because politicians are reluctant to tackle these difficult issues with policies and procedures that bring our immigration and naturilization processes into the 21st century.

[TheRealThing]

The totality of our immigration and naturalization process needs to be reformed to reflect the geopolitical circumstances we now face. "Just enforce the laws we have" sounds great, but it is ineffectual, and that inefficiency is partly because politicians are reluctant to tackle these difficult issues with policies and procedures that bring our immigration and naturilization processes into the 21st century.

Was it not you who just recently brought up a Scripture to make a point?

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (KJV)
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Your logic is flawed on so many levels I could very likely write a book on it. But for the sake of this conversation let's stick with the most obvious. When the Lord ordered the people of Israel to possess the promised land their orders were to go in, wipe the current inhabitants out, and theirs was to be a land of milk and honey.

That was the plan, but Israel disobeyed and the land in question is in dispute to this very day. History proves that sovereignty is any nation's prerequisite order of business if they want to survive. There will always be legions of takers out there who would rather seize the goods of others, rather than develop the industry honestly for themselves which provides the goods and services they want. Things will never change.

In our day we have apologists such as yourself who though they may be able to quote Scripture, seemingly fall short of the profound understanding it offers. Borders are absolutely necessary if we expect America to survive very long. Now, I know the forces of erosion are at work in a feverish effort to bring the US down; Trying to rationalize through propaganda the ideas of liberalism, which hold that man is evolving into greatness and we who have wealth must therefore invest it in that evolving brotherhood.

The real truth is quite a bit different however. Man is meant to provide for his family through work. With planting comes the harvest, and with plying trades comes the reward. This is the way a nation amasses wealth and if all nations did things right, all of them would have plenty. Humane immigration laws already exist here in this land, and they should be enforced. No amount of reform will make them anymore humane than they already are. Just as no amount of equivocation by self appointed interloping political hacks will make saints out of neer-do-wells here illegally. I don't get it, they broke into this land just like a thief would your home, and they are looking for booty in one form or another. If not, they'd be too actively involved in making a living in their homelands to ever consider walking away from it to come here. In the industrial sense, Mexico for example is booming. The jobs market there is just as rosy as it is in the US so what's the difference, why come here? WELFARE

Honorable immigrants still do it the old fashion way, legally. And they are being had on epic scale by our allowing border crashers, even preferring them over the good guys. Sad don't start to describe it.

[Demarcus ware]

Was it not you who just recently brought up a Scripture to make a point?

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (KJV)
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Your logic is flawed on so many levels I could very likely write a book on it. But for the sake of this conversation let's stick with the most obvious. When the Lord ordered the people of Israel to possess the promised land their orders were to go in, wipe the current inhabitants out, and theirs was to be a land of milk and honey.

That was the plan, but Israel disobeyed and the land in question is in dispute to this very day. History proves that sovereignty is any nation's prerequisite order of business if they want to survive. There will always be legions of takers out there who would rather seize the goods of others, rather than develop the industry honestly for themselves which provides the goods and services they want. Things will never change.

In our day we have apologists such as yourself who though they may be able to quote Scripture, seemingly fall short of the profound understanding it offers. Borders are absolutely necessary if we expect America to survive very long. Now, I know the forces of erosion are at work in a feverish effort to bring the US down; Trying to rationalize through propaganda the ideas of liberalism, which hold that man is evolving into greatness and we who have wealth must therefore invest it in that evolving brotherhood.

The real truth is quite a bit different however. Man is meant to provide for his family through work. With planting comes the harvest, and with plying trades comes the reward. This is the way a nation amasses wealth and if all nations did things right, all of them would have plenty. [B]Humane immigration laws already exist here in this land, and they should be enforced. No amount of reform will make them anymore humane than they already are. Just as no amount of equivocation by self appointed interloping political hacks will make saints out of neer-do-wells here illegally. I don't get it, they broke into this land just like a thief would your home, and they are looking for booty in one form or another. If not, they'd be too actively involved in making a living in their homelands to ever consider walking away from it to come here. In the industrial sense, Mexico for example is booming. The jobs market there is just as rosy as it is in the US so what's the difference, why come here? WELFARE

Honorable immigrants still do it the old fashion way, legally. And they are being had on epic scale by our allowing border crashers, even preferring them over the good guys. Sad don't start to describe it.

You're correct, whether it's Immigration or gun laws, neither is being enforced. Instead it's reform reform :please:

[WideRight05]

You and I have discussed this before. It's no secret that i'm voting for Trump due to Immigration and jobs. I look at Hillary and all i see is Immigration getting worse. I'm sure there are others on here as well, but i spent a total of over 4 years in the Middle East, I've seen truly how bad it can be. If people want to vote for Hillary that's their choice, i can sit back and watch as our women are being stoned, gays thrown off rooftops, or people beheaded just because they have different beliefs. What's amazing too me, is that there are so many people that think there is so much good in the world. In the words of Loretta Lynch, we need comfort and love to defeat ISIS. Hahaha. Yeah let's see her walk through Fallujah Iraq giving out hugs and see how that works out for her. When the crap hits the fan i know i can sit here and say to the people voting for Hillary, I told ya so..

I'm not one to sit and tell people who they should and shouldn't vote for, that's for the people that have control issues in their life, and think everyone should listen to them. Unless i'm trolling and usually that's on another site or Twitter. As for Trump, with the way the world is right now, and i agree, we may have come too far at this point, but with Trump, I'll take him over Hillary any day. She can't even secure her email, and the public is supposed to believe she can secure this country? Not that she wants to but she can't. So i say to everyone, always be aware of your surroundings, you just never know when that next attack is coming :biggrin:

I have a difficult time sitting back and criticizing somebody for voting for Donald Trump (e.g. Skinnypig or LWC) merely for the purpose of keeping Hillary Clinton out of the oval office.

Your service is appreciated, and what you mentioned happening over there is truly frightening. Instead of getting tough with them, this administration chooses to blame the Christians or blame YouTube videos - all while refusing to acknowledge the true enemy.

And worst of all, they seem to treat the military as if it's just to be used for social experimentation. They certainly don't seem to listen to their top lines of command very well.

[The Urban Sombrero]

Was it not you who just recently brought up a Scripture to make a point?

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (KJV)
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Your logic is flawed on so many levels I could very likely write a book on it. But for the sake of this conversation let's stick with the most obvious. When the Lord ordered the people of Israel to possess the promised land their orders were to go in, wipe the current inhabitants out, and theirs was to be a land of milk and honey.

That was the plan, but Israel disobeyed and the land in question is in dispute to this very day. History proves that sovereignty is any nation's prerequisite order of business if they want to survive. There will always be legions of takers out there who would rather seize the goods of others, rather than develop the industry honestly for themselves which provides the goods and services they want. Things will never change.

In our day we have apologists such as yourself who though they may be able to quote Scripture, seemingly fall short of the profound understanding it offers. Borders are absolutely necessary if we expect America to survive very long. Now, I know the forces of erosion are at work in a feverish effort to bring the US down; Trying to rationalize through propaganda the ideas of liberalism, which hold that man is evolving into greatness and we who have wealth must therefore invest it in that evolving brotherhood.

The real truth is quite a bit different however. Man is meant to provide for his family through work. With planting comes the harvest, and with plying trades comes the reward. This is the way a nation amasses wealth and if all nations did things right, all of them would have plenty. Humane immigration laws already exist here in this land, and they should be enforced. No amount of reform will make them anymore humane than they already are. Just as no amount of equivocation by self appointed interloping political hacks will make saints out of neer-do-wells here illegally. I don't get it, they broke into this land just like a thief would your home, and they are looking for booty in one form or another. If not, they'd be too actively involved in making a living in their homelands to ever consider walking away from it to come here. In the industrial sense, Mexico for example is booming. The jobs market there is just as rosy as it is in the US so what's the difference, why come here? WELFARE

Honorable immigrants still do it the old fashion way, legally. And they are being had on epic scale by our allowing border crashers, even preferring them over the good guys. Sad don't start to describe it.

(1) Did I suggest a nation does not need sovereign borders? No, I did not. The refusal to deal with illegal immigration these past years has put us in a dicey humanitarian situation, with large numbers of illegals who have been here for years, had children here, have made a life here. We need reform, or perhaps a better word, revisit, the situation as it exists circa 2016. New realities can out pace old laws. Our current illegal immigrant population, nor our current economic realities are best served by mass deportation.

[TheRealThing]

(1) Did I suggest a nation does not need sovereign borders? No, I did not. The refusal to deal with illegal immigration these past years has put us in a dicey humanitarian situation, with large numbers of illegals who have been here for years, had children here, have made a life here. We need reform, or perhaps a better word, revisit, the situation as it exists circa 2016. New realities can out pace old laws. Our current illegal immigrant population, nor our current economic realities are best served by mass deportation.

(1) - You did, and in the usual veiled terms that all liberals always use when they speak of border crashers. The problem is not that we cannot enforce our borders, the problem is that we will not police our borders. There is a reason that border agents have unilaterally endorsed Mr Trump. They are sick of the liberal do-si-do, and are ready to do their jobs for a change.

As I have said, where Republicans may be ready to cry uncle and admit it is time to stop the madness, Democrats are still determined to allow it because they want to change certain 'red state' demographics. And you're right, things are dicey, but the 'realities' you spoke of should be headed by a little item you didn't mention, which is government's covert deception in the matter. They never had the right to saddle the American taxpayer with the financial burden of millions of illegals who get everything handed to them, including a college diploma. The children largely, are mere pawns in all of this, there are train loads of them headed to the US as we speak. Desperate and unsupervised, at some point however, the door must close. Voters have awakened to the scope of the mess created by agenda driven politicians and thus they have flocked to support Trump.

Reform has nada to do with any of this. Corrupt and arrogant politicians running over existing law and the will of the people has everything to do with it. This would be the point at which liberals would show us a picture of innocent children who need a good home, right?

[The Urban Sombrero]

(1) - You did, and in the usual veiled terms that all liberals always use when they speak of border crashers. The problem is not that we cannot enforce our borders, the problem is that we will not police our borders. There is a reason that border agents have unilaterally endorsed Mr Trump. They are sick of the liberal do-si-do, and are ready to do their jobs for a change.

As I have said, where Republicans may be ready to cry uncle and admit it is time to stop the madness, Democrats are still determined to allow it because they want to change certain 'red state' demographics. And you're right, things are dicey, but the 'realities' you spoke of should be headed by a little item you didn't mention, which is government's covert deception in the matter. They never had the right to saddle the American taxpayer with the financial burden of millions of illegals who get everything handed to them, including a college diploma. The children largely, are mere pawns in all of this, there are train loads of them headed to the US as we speak. Desperate and unsupervised, at some point however, the door must close. Voters have awakened to the scope of the mess created by agenda driven politicians and thus they have flocked to support Trump.

Reform has nada to do with any of this. Corrupt and arrogant politicians running over existing law and the will of the people has everything to do with it. This would be the point at which liberals would show us a picture of innocent children who need a good home, right?

The United States has the right and obligation to maintain and enforce its own immigration and naturalization processes. However, we haven't. I think you are correct to assert that political considerations have led to abdication of responsibility in this issue. I just don't agree that it is only one party that is guilty of exploiting this issue. In my view, coming up with a responsible, just plan to deal with 12 million people already here is neither holding up a picture of a street-dwelling Honduran child, or denying this country's sovereignty as we move forward. It is reality.

[TheRealThing]

The United States has the right and obligation to maintain and enforce its own immigration and naturalization processes. However, we haven't. I think you are correct to assert that political considerations have led to abdication of responsibility in this issue. I just don't agree that it is only one party that is guilty of exploiting this issue. In my view, coming up with a responsible, just plan to deal with 12 million people already here is neither holding up a picture of a street-dwelling Honduran child, or denying this country's sovereignty as we move forward. It is reality.

No now I put in a qualifier when I said that Republicans are ready to cry uncle. They contributed alright, and George W. was notably beset by the Bush family idea that America is somehow bound to take in strays. So though I agree both sides are responsible, still it is the Dems who're in hot pursuit of a change in the demographic. What they are saying and doing, in forcing run away numbers of immigrants on the citizenry is idiotic not to mention unaffordable. Especially with regard to what is a veritable plague of unvettable Syrian refugees.

We can't push some magic button and expect them (the 12+ million) to all come out of the shadows and turn themselves in. However, when they are overtaken in the various acts of grievous fault for which they seem prone to commit, they should at that point expect to be shipped out of here. But like I said, the problem no longer seems remote to a majority of Americans who by personal experience have at least some familiarity with the problem of illegal immigration.

[Fear the Nation]

Blaming the immigrant for the ills of a society does not have a pretty history. It is our nation's leaders, blue and red suits, that kick the can constantly down the road on responsible, just immigration reform, and they often do so for political gain, or out of political fear. To refuse to deal with tough immigration issues so as to exploit a large and growing constituency, or to fear a just, responsible, equitable immigration policy will be exploited to alienate a constituency? Both view only coming elections, not coming generations.

You have to secure the border and have rule of law before it can be called immigration. Untill that happens it's more like an unlawful invasion.

[TheRealThing]

You have to secure the border and have rule of law before it can be called immigration. Untill that happens it's more like an unlawful invasion.

Or maybe it's like the manifestation of how law enforcement looks when those doing the enforcing have their resolve mitigated with apathy courtesy of a government rife with liberals.