[mysonis55]

Every year we hear the same complaint and a thousand different scenarios for the fix. I personally have grown so tired of it that I can't stand it. Well, I say it's for the kids and they are having fun so, enjoy it or give it up.

I think this may help you to understand that our system isn't as bad as some think. Most would agree Texas has the best high school football around. I have recently started watching their state championship games on line. Do you realize they have 10 state champions crowned each year? I was watching and the commentators in one game said that year was the first time they had all ten at Texas Stadium. They said it was because it was the first time that 3a division 1 had 64 teams. Before that game was going a week early. Oh, by the way, their state champs will play either 15 or 16 games in a year.

Now, I hope that helps somewhat to make you all feel better.

[Sykotyk]

Every year we hear the same complaint and a thousand different scenarios for the fix. I personally have grown so tired of it that I can't stand it. Well, I say it's for the kids and they are having fun so, enjoy it or give it up.

I think this may help you to understand that our system isn't as bad as some think. Most would agree Texas has the best high school football around. I have recently started watching their state championship games on line. Do you realize they have 10 state champions crowned each year? I was watching and the commentators in one game said that year was the first time they had all ten at Texas Stadium. They said it was because it was the first time that 3a division 1 had 64 teams. Before that game was going a week early. Oh, by the way, their state champs will play either 15 or 16 games in a year.

Now, I hope that helps somewhat to make you all feel better.

For decades, Texas state title games, as with all playoff games, were determined by the two participants. Usually somewhere in the middle. Considering El Paso to Orange is almost 900 miles, it wasn't unreasonable.

Then, the started pitting the two largest games in one venue (a lot of times title games would be paired up because schools wanted their games in the bigger venues), but first it was San Antonio's Alamodome (I saw those two games), and then Houston.

Then, Cowboys Stadium (Texas Stadium hasn't been used in years, and Cowboys Stadium is now AT&T Stadium) made the push to move all the games there.

First, 3A-4A-5A was moved (6 games). 3AD1 is the smallest classification, so has generally always played their title game a week earlier. Same time as 1A-6 Man. 1A-11 Man and 2A were played at Mansfield. 1A-6 Man was played at Abilene's Shotwell Stadium.

Then, the next year, they moved 1A-11 Man, and 2A to Cowboys Stadium. So, ten of the 12 title games (UIL only, not counting TAPPS, TCAL, TCAF, or TAIAO private associations) were at Cowboys Stadium. 3AD1 one week, and the other 9 the next.

Then, they moved 1A-6 Man to Cowboys Stadium and, even though it's a small classification, moved 3AD1 to the same week as the other 11-man games by adding another week to the playoffs. 4 games on Thursday, 3 on Friday, and 3 on Saturday.

This past year, they moved the games to Houston's NRG Stadium because of an NFL scheduling conflict but it appears they'll move back next year to AT&T Stadium. Also, next year, the 6-Man games are going to be played on Wednesday, Dec. 14 the day before the 11-man games start at the same venue. While the 11-man were at NRG this past year, the 6-man games reverted back to Abilene as most 6-man schools are in West Texas far away from Houston.

As for being upset there's 10 11-man titles in UIL being 'too many'. Texas is the the equivalent of a state spanning Bowling Green, KY to just east of New York City. And only 10 11-man public school title games.

UIL has 1254 (by my count) football playing schools that compete for 12 championships. Or, one championship for every 104 schools. Not exactly the same situation as Kentucky.

[33 power]

I have never complained about class number , too many imo, but your argument has no merit because Texas has a pop of 25m and 1484 HS playing football comparing them to the 4m and 220 HS or so playing football in Kentucky is asinine. If going by your numbers there is about a 100 schools per championship, if divided equally, so in comparison using Texas as an example we should have only 2 classes.

[killbilly usmc]

According to lonestargridiron.com Texas named 12 state champions, but I agree with 33 power that you can't compare the 2. Only twice as many classes, but about 7 times the schools. I don't have a problem with kentucky having 6 classes, and as far as blowouts even Texas has 40 point blowouts in the championship games. No one ever whines about every single team in basketball playing in the post season even the ones that are terrible, so I don't understand why football gets beat up on so much. I'm fine with it like it is, guess I'm easy to please, but going to 5 classes wouldn't bother me either. I do kinda wish every district had a minimum of 5 teams so that you actually have to win a district game instead of everyone getting in. In no way do I want the football season shortened. If they ever went to 2 team districts I would hope the regular season would be extended a game to make up for it. We get a max of 15 games a year, only half of basketball. The kids put to much work in to shorten the season any. I wish the regular season was extended a couple games.

[Paul Crewe]

Classes do not bother me as much as private schools nonsense. Put them all in a different class together.

[bo67]

It is a lot easier going 15 and 0 than it was years ago going 12 and 0.

[Killer in the Sun]

Till the middle 70's , KY crowned 3 state titles.

Comparing KY football to Texas Football.......

[bo67]

Three titles is correct. And every team you played in the play offs might be undefeated.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Kentucky football would have been perfect with 5 classes. 4 was to little, but the KHSAA forgot a whole number when moving away from 4 classes.
If you look at how the schools would fall in a five class system, football in this state would be so much more awesome than it currently is.

[mysonis55]

Sykotyk,
Thanks for the info. I would like to be able to take a vacation some time and go watch all of those state championships.

[mysonis55]

33, I think you are mistaking my point. I am not trying to compare them so much. Just showing how many state games they have. Then of course they are playing around the same number of games and also knowing that one of the 3a classifications only has 64 teams which is just twice what our smallest classification has.

[mysonis55]

Bo,
I really don't think it is that much easier to go 15-0. I look back at Mayfield. We have had 3 undefeated state champions. 2 in the 15 game format and 1 in the old. I would say the two in the 15 game format were as good if not better than the first one.

I think that is just us old school guys wanting to think we were bigger and stronger back then.

I really do appreciate the way you guys have responded in this though. I love great discussions and commend you for your thoughts. Please keep it coming. I truly enjoy hearing other opinions. I consider each of you to be great friends who all love this game.

[bo67]

Yeah. It's just the old way of thinking. It was different when I played. Line up toe to toe and just go at it. And going both ways to do it. None of this 4 receiver sets. I coached at Highlands one year. I know for a FACT. They weren't in the condition my team was at Highlands. We could have played 6 quarters. I don't ever remember being tired after a game. And most of us went both ways and on all special teams. We played great teams in the playoffs. It wasn't easy to get to state. We really had to earn it.

[samson81]

I'm not a big fan of the six class system, but I have a bigger issue with the fact that 192 out of a possible 221 schools make the playoffs in Kentucky. Literally every team makes the playoffs in 6A and only one team doesn't qualify in 1A. There are four districts that only have three teams in them, which means that a 5th place team from another district has to fill in as a 4 seed just to fill out the bracket.

Just making the playoffs should mean something. When some of the worst teams in each class are making the playoffs just so they can travel 2-3 hours away and get a 2nd quarter running clock put on them, the format might need to be tweaked a bit.

But, at the same time, as long as the players are okay with the current system, that's really what matters most.

[pjdoug]

Classes do not bother me as much as private schools nonsense. Put them all in a different class together.

I agree 100%

[killbilly usmc]

I don't ever see privates being split into another class. How could you put louisville holy cross into the same class as trinity. If you had 2 separate private classes for big and small they wouldn't be very many teams in each class. I looked it up once, but don't remember the numbers, but I think more states have public, and private combined than seperated. So most states think there ain't much of an advantage. I'm not sure I think privates have as big of an advantage as most claim. Its mostly excuse making.

[mysonis55]

Bo, I think you could be right in some cases. But, I really think the boys here at MHS are in better shape than we have ever been. We have a former track and old school football star handling the physical training and the workouts he puts the through are unbelievable. It is obvious also in the fact that we don't have but a few and I mean very few cramps in the season. We still have a lot of two way players. They just have it in packages. I know 3 of our linebackers, 2-3 d linemen, our cb's and a safety saw lots of time on the offense and special teams. It's just different now.

[bo67]

No one on Highlands goes both ways. Cause they can't. They work on quickness. Not in shape to go both ways.

[mysonis55]

I agree on the private school stuff. I know we can't put them in a class by themselves but at least there would be some degree of fair competition in using the plus 1 design that some states use. It is crazy to have a DeSales listed as a 2a school when they are an all male school that dresses 90 plus kids. We play 6a McCracken, 6a Marshall Co and 5a Graves Co. They don't come near those numbers. I think it would be more fair if they used the plus one which would put them, NCC and other 2a privates in 3a. The only classification that it wouldn't fix would be 6a.

[mysonis55]

I will tell you though. I do love to watch the Bluebirds. They run on he** of a system. I love how they run two or three sets of recievers on and off the field. It keeps them a step ahead of anyone else. I wish our coaches would implement that because for the next few years we have plenty of great recievers that could do this.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I'm not a big fan of the six class system, but I have a bigger issue with the fact that 192 out of a possible 221 schools make the playoffs in Kentucky. Literally every team makes the playoffs in 6A and only one team doesn't qualify in 1A. There are four districts that only have three teams in them, which means that a 5th place team from another district has to fill in as a 4 seed just to fill out the bracket.

Just making the playoffs should mean something. When some of the worst teams in each class are making the playoffs just so they can travel 2-3 hours away and get a 2nd quarter running clock put on them, the format might need to be tweaked a bit.

But, at the same time, as long as the players are okay with the current system, that's really what matters most.

I have no problem with the playoff format. In a 5 class system, it would make every district in the state leave at least 1 maybe 2 teams out. I love the 5 round playoffs and 4 teams from each district, and with the schools voting for that, it isn't going anywhere.
However, if you do adjust the playoffs, you absolutely have to add another regular season game. Football is too short to lose a week on.

[killbilly usmc]

I'm not saying privates don't have any advantage, I just think most make more out of it than it really is. I do think trinity, and st x has an advantage, but its more of an enrollment advantage than just being private. Scott county is the same way. They have a huge enrollment, and are generally the best 6a public, with male as an exception. In kentucky I don't see it as a problem. Now ensworth tennessee I can't say the same about them. How does a school the side of mayfield with only 200 boys in the school and 45 on the team beat trinity a lot of years. Obviously teams like that must be getting the cream of the crop from there area.

[rojas]

With 6 championships, football in Kentucky is so watered down winning a state championship carries about the same prestige as getting to the Sweet 16 1/4 finals in basketball.

[PHSForever]

Biggest question I have from all of this.....

How many of THEIR fans complain about the drive to the state championship location? Lol.

I'm kidding, obviously. I get what 55 was TRYING to say, but I think he would have been better served using Tennessee as a comparison to make his point (and the other posters point about private schools) a little better. Tennessee population is roughly 6.5 million to roughly 4.5 million for Kentucky. They also have 6 classes in HS football, plus 2 seperate classes for schools that charge tuition or give financial aid. I think if Kentucky were similarly modeled, most likely you would see 5 classes (max) for the "public" schools and most likely two (max) for the private schools.

Right now, with the rapid and fluid dynamics of the population settlement changing in Kentucky as much as it is, plus so many smaller and less competitive schools choosing to drop out of district play or being merged into larger schools (much like South Floyd and Allen Central will be) primarily on the eastern side of the state, I truly feel like the next 10 years or so will see a move towards 5 classes. Will there ever be a seperate class or two for the schools that give financial aid? I seriously doubt it because of the same mindset that keeps our basketball format as an open "any size school could win it all" sweet 16 format. There MAY be, at some point, a championship similar to the All A for football, but I would be very hard pressed to see how the logistics of that could be managed, how you would avoid schools bouncing back and forth between that and the "larger" championship format, and so on. It's an interesting discussion topic for sure.

[Sykotyk]

Biggest question I have from all of this.....

How many of THEIR fans complain about the drive to the state championship location? Lol.

Longest trip last year was Canadian traveling to NRG Stadium in Houston at a cool 598 miles one way. Their game was at 10am on a Thursday and had about 5,000 people on their side of the field.

But, in Texas, there's two-lane roads signed at 75mph, and some interstates at 80mph. So, travel is a bit different out there.

I'm kidding, obviously. I get what 55 was TRYING to say, but I think he would have been better served using Tennessee as a comparison to make his point (and the other posters point about private schools) a little better. Tennessee population is roughly 6.5 million to roughly 4.5 million for Kentucky. They also have 6 classes in HS football, plus 2 seperate classes for schools that charge tuition or give financial aid. I think if Kentucky were similarly modeled, most likely you would see 5 classes (max) for the "public" schools and most likely two (max) for the private schools.

Which would work. Interesting thing is that in TX, the UIL is only public schools and two private schools (Dallas Jesuit and Houston Strake Jesuit because no other private association will admit them because they're gigantic schools). But, kids don't flock to the private schools to be 'noticed' the way so many in Ohio, Kentucky or elsewhere in the midwest or east coast do. It's just a different mindset. TAPPS, the largest private association, is a bunch of small schools.

One thing Texas does have is 'equal participation'. If you live in a school district, you can play sports and extra-curriculars at the public school, whether you're enrolled there, a private school, or home-schooled. This lessens the impact of trying to form private super teams since you can go to one school for education and still participate in extracurriculars at your home public school your taxes are going to.

Right now, with the rapid and fluid dynamics of the population settlement changing in Kentucky as much as it is, plus so many smaller and less competitive schools choosing to drop out of district play or being merged into larger schools (much like South Floyd and Allen Central will be) primarily on the eastern side of the state, I truly feel like the next 10 years or so will see a move towards 5 classes. Will there ever be a seperate class or two for the schools that give financial aid? I seriously doubt it because of the same mindset that keeps our basketball format as an open "any size school could win it all" sweet 16 format. There MAY be, at some point, a championship similar to the All A for football, but I would be very hard pressed to see how the logistics of that could be managed, how you would avoid schools bouncing back and forth between that and the "larger" championship format, and so on. It's an interesting discussion topic for sure.

I don't think I've ever seen a state shrink the number of classifications before. I find it hard for them to squeeze the genie back in the bottle. PA just went up from 4 to 6 for the first time since they started state playoffs. I can't forsee them ever dropping back.

Wyoming has less than 50 high schools and has five classifications. Even they won't shrink because the size-disparity between teams is vast. The big city schools in Cheyenne, Laramie, and Casper dwarf the rural schools and requires they keep several levels. Then there's 1A which are the smallest 11-man like Niobrara County, Yoder Southeast, or Cokeville. And then you have 6-man, such as Kaycee, Meeteetse, Ten Sleep, or Little Snake River. For years, Meeteetse and a few other 6-man teams played in the Montana association or Idaho association because no opportunities in Wyoming until they got 6-man. Kaycee was a school for a years just south of Buffalo that had sports, but not enough for 11-man football (their players went to Buffalo in a co-op) before 6-man was founded and started a team. And do very well.

Wyoming also has the weird fascination of cross-threading their playoffs. The state is split into two divisions in each classification. East and West, primarily (i think one does north/south). However, in the first round, the east #1 plays the worst west team. And vice-versa. So, Niobrara County traveled to play Cokeville. In the first round. At 433 miles for a Friday afternoon game (rural Wyoming schools only are open Monday through Thursday, so Friday is treated like Saturday. This is because many kids live on farms and since travel is expensive for busing, it's easier to make four trips instead of five each week).


If anyone wants an issue with too many classifications, go look at New Jersey. They had 24 at last count. Public divisions were North 1, North 2, Central, and South. Each with five groups. Then there was Non-Public with four groups.

[killbilly usmc]

With 6 championships, football in Kentucky is so watered down winning a state championship carries about the same prestige as getting to the Sweet 16 1/4 finals in basketball.

Bad comparison. If there is a competitive problem in Kentucky its in basketball. Only 3 states has all schools in same class, and the other 2 is Rhode island, and Delaware. If Kentucky had classes in basketball like they should no one would be able to make these comparisons anymore. All your pro sports has 32 teams competing for a title, but I never hear anyone say its to easy to win an nba, nfl, nhl, or MLB title. Don't know why everyone thinks it's such a problem in our high school football. Lets just go to 1 class and see how many complain when trinity is our only state champion.

[mysonis55]

I too think it is crazy that Ky thinks a small class a school should be able to win a state title in basketball against the huge schools. I really think that is one of the most overlooked sports as well as is baseball. Heck, here at Mayfield we have to use 2 8th graders to make a full field in baseball. Then you add in the fact that McCracken Co is in our region and they don't start anything but seniors unless they have an exceptional kid. I think there is too much big money in certain schools that lobby to keep things the way it is. I think each of those sports should at least play in 3 separate classifications.

[bo67]

Mysonis55. You're right about the receivers. When I coached there I had 17 receivers. 12 could play every down. So we rotated 3 groups of 4 every play. 4 in. 4 out. And kept doing it.

[mysonis55]

I think last year and this year we could go about 12 deep at reciever if they would use them. Probably half of those or more are 6 feet tall and all are fast. We actually are very blessed with athletes. We just need more of the big strong linemen type.

[bo67]

I never had the height you have. But all were fast. Jac Collinsworth was 6'2. But he was hurt most of the year. He did play in the playoffs. We got off track on this post. I just don't like seeing teams 1 and 9 or 2 and 8 entering the playoffs.