[BOOGIE WOOGIE MAN]

[quote=wildcats fan]1A
1. Beechwood
2. Pikeville
3. Paintsville
4. Frankfort
5. Hazard
6. Russellville
7. Fairview
8. Williamsburg
9. Pairs
10. Pineville

No Raceland in the top 10?:pondering:

I think Wildcats fan is really a bear and just woke up from over sleeping or something. Or he just hates a RAM.

[pjdoug]

The Redhounds will be hard to beat as the season goes on.. They might lose a few early to inexperience and youth.
I agree with the keyword the other poster used earlier tho. SPEED does kill in this game

it sure does but power also kills.

[Demarcus ware]

it sure does but power also kills.

I do enjoy power football, but in the end speed wins out. hard to use that power when you can't catch them nicker:

[EKUAlum05]

How fast you run a 40 doesn't matter if you are getting hit before you can turn the corner or get to top speed.

Give me a dominating D-Line and well coached LB'ers who can read plays all day over a team full of burners.

If speed was the end all be all of HS Football Holmes, Moore, Bryan Station, and Western would have a lot more wins than they do.





The common theme with all your top programs is most of them have a history of playing really good defense and winning the battle on the LOS. If you can't win in the trenches it doesn't matter if you have a RB who can run a 4.3 40 or a D-1 Quarterback.... their effectiveness is going to be taken away. On the flip side if you have the best Oline you can make a RB with 4.8 speed look like he has 4.5 speed.

[EKUAlum05]

if :biggrin:

Not sure Corbin or Bell will even get past Breathitt.

Those Southern Kentucky teams....man... softer than Dairy Queen Ice Cream

[Demarcus ware]

How fast you run a 40 doesn't matter if you are getting hit before you can turn the corner or get to top speed.

Give me a dominating D-Line and well coached LB'ers who can read plays all day over a team full of burners.

If speed was the end all be all of HS Football Holmes, Moore, Bryan Station, and Western would have a lot more wins than they do.





The common theme with all your top programs is most of them have a history of playing really good defense and winning the battle on the LOS. If you can't win in the trenches it doesn't matter if you have a RB who can run a 4.3 40 or a D-1 Quarterback.... their effectiveness is going to be taken away. On the flip side if you have the best Oline you can make a RB with 4.8 speed look like he has 4.5 speed.

I agree that you have to win in the trenches, but i'm also a fan of team speed not just talking about skill players or individual speed. How many times has a team with speed beat a mountain team with power? i don't know, i'm actually asking. I know there are exceptions, but i'll take a fast LB group over a bunch of power guys anytime. I think there has to be a balance of both to win these days, i'm more or less talking my preference.

[EKUAlum05]

I agree that you have to win in the trenches, but i'm also a fan of team speed not just talking about skill players or individual speed. How many times has a team with speed beat a mountain team with power? i don't know, i'm actually asking. I know there are exceptions, but i'll take a fast LB group over a bunch of power guys anytime. I think there has to be a balance of both to win these days, i'm more or less talking my preference.

The most mis-understood aspect of the game and a good point. When a team knows their assignments and work like a machine and have quality athleticism they can look considerably faster.

Prime example:
Belfry vs. Central and Henry Clay in 2014.

If you took the fifteen guys who ran the fastest 40 in each of those games Henry Clay and Central probably would have had 10-12 of the 15.

Belfry was by far the faster team in terms of team speed in both of those games. Central struggled to gain a First Down until the last drive of the game. Henry Clay had about as many tackles for a loss against them as they did plays over ten yards. Neither team scored an offensive TD.

Belfry's defense was at the spot before either team's offensive player could get there.



Pulaski County is another prime example. Pulaski is not a very fast team in terms of straightline speed. I would bet that if you stacked Pulaski's 40 times up against the rest of 5A last year they probably wouldn't even be in the Top 10 in their class.With that said, Pulaski's offense was well timed and efficient to the point it made them look like they were two steps faster than the defenses they faced.

If Christian County, John Hardin, Iroqouis, and Pulaski held a track meet last year using their football players Pulaski would have been embarrassed. On the football field though Pulaski hoisted the hardware.

[killbilly usmc]

I agree that you have to win in the trenches, but i'm also a fan of team speed not just talking about skill players or individual speed. How many times has a team with speed beat a mountain team with power? i don't know, i'm actually asking. I know there are exceptions, but i'll take a fast LB group over a bunch of power guys anytime. I think there has to be a balance of both to win these days, i'm more or less talking my preference.

Teams with speed has beat mountain teams with power a lot. Look how many times Central beat belfry before belfry finally got first win against them. How many power teams from the east has Mayfield beat. The answer is a lot, Fairview comes to mind quick with the record setting rushing attack they had that year. I have not seen a power running team ever beat Mayfield in the 6 or so years ive been watching them. Warren Central beat them 1 year that I didn't attend the game using the wing t, but they are a very fast team, they was ranked #2, or 3 in 5a, and Mayfield led them until jonathan Jackson pretty much missed most of the second half. Murray, Beechwood, Russellville have all had good power running teams, and have failed to beat Mayfield in that time. Belfry seems to be the most successville power running team, and they have still been beat way more times in the title game by a faster team than times they have won. Football has evolved if you want to consistently win titles you have to be balanced on offense, and play great defense.

[Demarcus ware]

I've watched football my whole life, played in high school, the whole works. BUT i never realized how much team speed came into play until i watched Cooper roll into Harlan County a few years ago for the state semi's. Looking at these two teams, HC had size strength by a big margin over cooper. Honestly i thought HC would steamroll thru them. The first quarter HC marched right down the field no problem, then Cooper made some adjustments, and all they did was swap out some D lineman with the LB's. But the speed of that team was just crazy compared to HC, once they swapped those guys out, HC couldn't move the ball for anything. I know teams need a combination of both power and speed. Just like the Oregon Ducks, speed got them a long way, but they finally realized they need to be physical to take it to the next level, and now they are starting to get that size and power on their offensive line. like i said, it's just a preference of mine to watch..

[EKUAlum05]

Belfry seems to be the most successville power running team, and they have still been beat way more times in the title game by a faster team than times they have won. Football has evolved if you want to consistently win titles you have to be balanced on offense, and play great defense.

With respect to Belfry vs. Central.. I don't think the speed factor has been a huge deal to be honest and also think people mistakenly label Central.

In 2007 and 2010 there was no doubt Central's speed was a major factor... but in '11, '12, and '14 it basically played little to no role in games that Central scored a combined 3 Offensive TD's in regulation (one was set up by a trick play and another on a short field after a turnover).

Central does have great athletes and speed, but that's not what has made them successful and I feel people mis-label them as such. Central has became a state power because they are NASTY on Defense in their Front 7, sound on Special Teams, and typically are a power running team. Central though does their damage out of the I and not the Flexbone... but they still make their hay on offense by beating you up front and running it down your throat.

They also are very well coached and rarely make mistakes. When you make a mistake they make you pay for it.

Truth be told Central and Belfry have a whole lot more in common than Central and Tilghman when it comes to philosophy and how they beat you. Tilghman has elite speed and athletes but have not had near the same success as either team. Belfry and Central always execute better, are better at the LOS, and have defenses that allow fewer big plays than Tilghman.

[HighViz]

Not sure Corbin or Bell will even get past Breathitt.

Those Southern Kentucky teams....man... softer than Dairy Queen Ice Cream

I always thought of you as a knowledgeable fan of Ky high school football. But, you are either joking with a statement like this or I have been a fool for many years of BGP and BGR.

[EKUAlum05]

I always thought of you as a knowledgeable fan of Ky high school football. But, you are either joking with a statement like this or I have been a fool for many years of BGP and BGR.

I am giving pjdoug a hard time

He trolls Belfry so I jab him back in good fun saying how he is a coat tail rider and how his Southern KY teams he loves are soft.

[Demarcus ware]

With respect to Belfry vs. Central.. I don't think the speed factor has been a huge deal to be honest and also think people mistakenly label Central.

In 2007 and 2010 there was no doubt Central's speed was a major factor... but in '11, '12, and '14 it basically played little to no role in games that Central scored a combined 3 Offensive TD's in regulation (one was set up by a trick play and another on a short field after a turnover).

Central does have great athletes and speed, but that's not what has made them successful and I feel people mis-label them as such. Central has became a state power because they are NASTY on Defense in their Front 7, sound on Special Teams, and typically are a power running team. Central though does their damage out of the I and not the Flexbone... but they still make their hay on offense by beating you up front and running it down your throat.

They also are very well coached and rarely make mistakes. When you make a mistake they make you pay for it.

Truth be told Central and Belfry have a whole lot more in common than Central and Tilghman when it comes to philosophy and how they beat you. Tilghman has elite speed and athletes but have not had near the same success as either team. Belfry and Central always execute better, are better at the LOS, and have defenses that allow fewer big plays than Tilghman.

At the state game last year, Central made an unusual amount of mistakes, now you can look at that two ways, they were young or Belfry's Defense was causing it. I think it was a little of both because Belfry's D line was causing problems the entire game. I like watching these two teams play and hope both make it back to state this year, it's usually a dogfight for sure. Belfry comes back loaded, and Central comes back a little older, i'm not sure, but i think they both bring back about the same amount of starters. Should be one for the ages.

[killbilly usmc]

With respect to Belfry vs. Central.. I don't think the speed factor has been a huge deal to be honest and also think people mistakenly label Central.

In 2007 and 2010 there was no doubt Central's speed was a major factor... but in '11, '12, and '14 it basically played little to no role in games that Central scored a combined 3 Offensive TD's in regulation (one was set up by a trick play and another on a short field after a turnover).

Central does have great athletes and speed, but that's not what has made them successful and I feel people mis-label them as such. Central has became a state power because they are NASTY on Defense in their Front 7, sound on Special Teams, and typically are a power running team. Central though does their damage out of the I and not the Flexbone... but they still make their hay on offense by beating you up front and running it down your throat.

They also are very well coached and rarely make mistakes. When you make a mistake they make you pay for it.

Truth be told Central and Belfry have a whole lot more in common than Central and Tilghman when it comes to philosophy and how they beat you. Tilghman has elite speed and athletes but have not had near the same success as either team. Belfry and Central always execute better, are better at the LOS, and have defenses that allow fewer big plays than Tilghman.

Tilghman has underachieved for sure. The coach they got last year, and does the wing t has people there excited. Time will tell how it works out. Im glad he is at Mayfield, and wouldn't want him to leave, but id love to see what Joe Morris could have done with Tilghman in 3a. He has beaten Tilghman 9 years in a row now with a team that isn't as fast, Mayfield is the faster team against some teams, but never are against Tilghman. Im sure Tilghman would have more titles under Morris in the spread offense with that elite speed. They have 28 titles in track, and many track stars play. They have had a major problem with discipline there. Most penalized team ive seen outside of Graves, and Mccacken. With Tilghman its not unsportsmanlike penalties like the other 2 mentioned, they are offsides a lot. I listened to the game against Reitz a few years ago, and Tilghman had them then gave it away inside the 10 when they got penalized multiple times. They cant seem to get out of there own way. Tilghmans only problem has been Tilghman. If they could ever get fundamentally more sound they would be tough in 3a.

[EKUAlum05]

At the state game last year, Central made an unusual amount of mistakes, now you can look at that two ways, they were young or Belfry's Defense was causing it. I think it was a little of both because Belfry's D line was causing problems the entire game. I like watching these two teams play and hope both make it back to state this year, it's usually a dogfight for sure. Belfry comes back loaded, and Central comes back a little older, i'm not sure, but i think they both bring back about the same amount of starters. Should be one for the ages.

Central brings back 8 both ways... Belfry brings back 7 both ways.

Both lose their best offensive player.

Belfry was a little deeper than Central and better defensively.

I expect both teams, barring injuries, to be about the same level come November and both be very tough to move the ball on.





You are also right... Central made some procedure penalties you usually don't see from them and a couple penalties after the play... Belfry also forced some penalties because Horton was on top of Norfleet before he could even look down the field.

The best judge of this series has been the '11 and '12 games. In '07 I still think Belfry had the better team but between overlooking Central (Central had been beat soundly by a Johnson Central team Belfry handled) and some huge mistakes (Pick 6 before the Half and a fumble in the redzone as Belfry was driving for the late lead).. they let it slip. 2010 Belfry was not very good and overachieved to get there.. any chance they had was gone with a ton of fumbles. Last year Central overachieved and really was outmanned by Belfry from a physical standpoint for the first time. Those '11 and '12 games though were well played defensive WARS where the better team prevailed where literally a missed XP or inches of playing field proved the difference.

If these two teams meet again I expect it to resemble those two years. Thats a big hypothetical though in a super strong 3A.

[EKUAlum05]

Tilghman has underachieved for sure. The coach they got last year, and does the wing t has people there excited. Time will tell how it works out. Im glad he is at Mayfield, and wouldn't want him to leave, but id love to see what Joe Morris could have done with Tilghman in 3a. He has beaten Tilghman 9 years in a row now with a team that isn't as fast, Mayfield is the faster team against some teams, but never are against Tilghman. Im sure Tilghman would have more titles under Morris in the spread offense with that elite speed. They have 28 titles in track, and many track stars play. They have had a major problem with discipline there. Most penalized team ive seen outside of Graves, and Mccacken. With Tilghman its not unsportsmanlike penalties like the other 2 mentioned, they are offsides a lot. I listened to the game against Reitz a few years ago, and Tilghman had them then gave it away inside the 10 when they got penalized multiple times. They cant seem to get out of there own way. Tilghmans only problem has been Tilghman. If they could ever get fundamentally more sound they would be tough in 3a.

Morris could have turned Fulton City into a title contender if given the time. Great coaches are undeniable and Morris is a great coach.

Want to beat a team with a bunch of 4.4 guys? Get a coach that knows how to do it.

Tilghman may turn the corner in 2015...but from what I saw of them last year they better find some linemen. If you want to win 3A you have to win up front and on defense... with Boyle and LexCath in the mix that becomes even more true. Tilghman was small and shallow up front in 2014. Had they played Central or Belfry they would have lost even worse than the 34-0 they took to South Warren. Any chance of competing for a title this year begins and ends with beefing up that line on both sides of the ball.

[HighViz]

I am giving pjdoug a hard time

He trolls Belfry so I jab him back in good fun saying how he is a coat tail rider and how his Southern KY teams he loves are soft.

Ok... I was sorta thrown off there... Breathitt is 5-6years away from getting things going again. I hope they do! But they gotta get the state dept out first. Then get the feeder program started back.

[RunItUpTheGut]

How about being a smart enough coach to have both speed and power?!?!?!?!?

There called Division One players that sign with schools like Bama nicker: Example, Damien Harris.

Rough part is there might not be 5 of those in the state each year, and you need 11 with one team. I look at it like this, how many times has Highlands and Trinity walked to a state title, even with teams that wasn't world beaters? You have to remember there are a crap loads of other teams in this country that would cake walk over both of them every year. Highlands cant even dominate the greater Cincy teams, yet has no problem with 99% of schools in this state. They use teams speed and good form to beat teams with dominate power like JC. If you watch football and understand the game at all, its not hard to see, but if you ever have the privilege of watching Florida, Calis, and Texas best teams, its ridiculous how big and powerful they are, all while there 300lb defensive lineman are outrunning your running back.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Not sure Corbin or Bell will even get past Breathitt.

Those Southern Kentucky teams....man... softer than Dairy Queen Ice Cream

:drooling:

[pjdoug]

Not sure Corbin or Bell will even get past Breathitt.

Those Southern Kentucky teams....man... softer than Dairy Queen Ice Cream

:trolldad:

[killbilly usmc]

Morris could have turned Fulton City into a title contender if given the time. Great coaches are undeniable and Morris is a great coach.

Want to beat a team with a bunch of 4.4 guys? Get a coach that knows how to do it.

Tilghman may turn the corner in 2015...but from what I saw of them last year they better find some linemen. If you want to win 3A you have to win up front and on defense... with Boyle and LexCath in the mix that becomes even more true. Tilghman was small and shallow up front in 2014. Had they played Central or Belfry they would have lost even worse than the 34-0 they took to South Warren. Any chance of competing for a title this year begins and ends with beefing up that line on both sides of the ball.

Im not sure id say Morris could turn Fulton City into a title contender. They do have some nice athletes, but they suffer from being the smallest football playing school in the state with only about 45 boys in the school. They usually only have about 20 on the team. There problem will always be depth, and numbers. As far as Tilghman goes, they where very small last year, and there numbers where way down. I don't look for them to be in title contention for a couple more years. Mayfield had more size, and depth than Tilghman last year, and I had never seen that before. Tilghman did have a good 7th, and 8th grade team last year so that may help in the future, but I don't see a huge turn around in 1 year after seeing there size, and number of players last year.

[KYHSFBFan]

I've heard Williamsburg has picked up a few transfers this year from Corbin, N. Laurel and a couple from Tn... Any truth to this or am I getting smoke blown up my rear..