[pjdoug]

That's it chuck is back Belfry fans. Go ahead, and tell the khsaa to ship the next 4 trophies to Boyle.:igiveup:

exactly right. Go Rebels!:Cheerlead

[killbilly usmc]

Did you forget Chuck Smith left Boyle and came back last year?

While I was being sarcastic you do have a descent point. I wonder if boyle will ever get back to that kind of domination. I think they will improve, and get there share of titles, but don't see them getting any more than belfry or central the next few years. Id be shocked if boyle took a bunch of straight titles.

[killbilly usmc]

exactly right. Go Rebels!:Cheerlead

The Rebels will be mediocre at best.

[EKUAlum05]

What does the numbers look like including all mountain teams if you go by last 5 years, I bet it will show belfry has been real dominant in those 5 years. I don't remember anyone beating them over there in that span in 5 years except Johnson central doing it the last 2 years. What about 10 years also.

The past 5 years Belfry has a losing record against Johnson Central and has suffered the one loss at the hands of Pikeville last season. I will do both WYMT Coverage area teams and also EKY teams (Which includes Ashland, Russell, etc) to be fair. Will also show quality wins

WYMT Area
2014: 8-2 W: Lawrence County X 2, Harlan County, Southwestern L: Johnson Central, Pikeville

2013: 11-1 W: Somerset, Lawrence Co X 2, Harlan County, Wayne County, Pikeville L: Johnson Central

2012: 10-0 W: Johnson Central, Lawrence Co X 2, Pburg, Pikeville, Breathitt County

2011: 9-1 W: Pikeville, Pburg, Lawrence X 2, Breathitt L: Johnson Central

2010: 6-3 W: Somerset, Pikeville L: Pburg, Sheldon Clark, Johnson Central

2009: 6-3 W: Pikeville L: Pburg, Johnson Central, Sheldon Clark

2008: 9-1 W: Pikeville, Lawrence County, Johnson Central L: Breathitt County

2007: 13-0 W: Pikeville, Johnson Central, Somerset, Breathitt, Corbin, Lawrence Co

2006: 10-1 W: Pikeville, Pburg X 2, Lawrence Co, Middlebsoro Loss: Sheldon Clark

2005: 11-0 W: Pikeville, Sheldon Clark X 2, Lawrence Co, Pburg, Middlesboro

EKY:
2014: 9-2 Win vs. Russell in Semi's

2013: Same as above..no additional games

2012: 10-2, Loss to Ashland

2011: 10-1, Win vs. Ashland

2010: 9-4 Wins vs. West Carter, Mason County, Russell... Loss to Ashland

2009: 8-4 Wins vs. Lewis County and Boyd County, Loss to Ashland

2008: 12-1 Wins vs, East Carter, West Carter, and Russell

2007: 14-0 Win vs. East Carter

2006: 10-3, Losses to Russell and Ashland

2005: 11-1, Loss to Russell

5 Year Record vs. WYMT Mountain Teams 44-7 86.3%
5 Year Record vs. EKY Teams 49-10 83.1%

10 Year Record vs. WYMT Mountain Teams: 93-12 88.6%
10 Year Record vs. EKY Team 104-19 84.6%

[EKUAlum05]

While I was being sarcastic you do have a descent point. I wonder if boyle will ever get back to that kind of domination. I think they will improve, and get there share of titles, but don't see them getting any more than belfry or central the next few years. Id be shocked if boyle took a bunch of straight titles.

Certainly Boyle will improve under Smith and return to an elite level..but at the same time I am not sure Jacob Tamme, Brandon Smith, Bobby Leffew, Travis Leffew, Matt Quinn, Taylor Begley, or even Lamar Dawson will be walking through that door anytime in the near future.

Smith doesn't have the numbers like he did in his first stint just yet either. That may change..but right now Boyle has to have fewer guys playing iron man football to get back to that unprecedented run like Smith had before.

I could honestly see it go either way... Smith is no longer a Spring Chicken and may not have that same motivation as when he originally built that program...but at the same time I sure as heck wouldn't bet against him!

[killbilly usmc]

I didn't think they had lost that many games in the last five years still an impressive percentage. I didn't know anyone other than Pikeville last year, and the 2 to Johnson central. I thought thatv would be the only eastern ky losses in 5 years.

[pjdoug]

The Rebels will be mediocre at best.

:biglmao:

[EKUAlum05]

I didn't think they had lost that many games in the last five years still an impressive percentage. I didn't know anyone other than Pikeville last year, and the 2 to Johnson central. I thought thatv would be the only eastern ky losses in 5 years.

Ashland has had Belfry's number for years now.. lots of heartbreaking/controversial losses

Sheldon Clark is a forgotten team... they fell on very hard times lately but Matney (Johnson Central's Coach) had built them into a very strong program and Hager kept them there at first.

Belfry's "Down" years were 2009 and 2010. 2009 was the weakest Belfry team in 20 years and the only Pirate team in the past 12 years to not reach the State Semi-Finals.

2010 Belfry was not very good at all much of the season but overachieved and pulled off back to back upsets in the playoffs against an undefeated and #1 Somerset and a Mason County team that entered ranked #3 in the State.

Belfry should remain playing at a very high level the next three years.. with this season and next year being extremely strong teams. After year three it will then be interesting to see if Belfry has a bit of a lull. The Feeder System is still very strong.. but this current set of upcoming Juniors will leave a major void to fill once they graduate and the Coal Industry is hitting the area hard.

[killbilly usmc]

Just sign 64 to a contract, and let him recruit for you. He sends some great ball players to his various adopted teams to play qb, maybe he can get you 1 if west Virginia falls through. I don't care who you are that's funny.

[EKUAlum05]

Just sign 64 to a contract, and let him recruit for you. He sends some great ball players to his various adopted teams to play qb, maybe he can get you 1 if west Virginia falls through. I don't care who you are that's funny.

64 is in talks with Saban... he is too rich for my blood

Plus Belfry is the school who would be the least likely to need a star QB recruit... we need a stud FB or stud HB

[killbilly usmc]

64 will drop the tide 1st loss there is still hope to get him back.

[EKUAlum05]

64 will drop the tide 1st loss there is still hope to get him back.

Considering my main man 64 only cheers for teams he has kin folk playing for I am starting to wonder if he has more sons than Abraham at this point :biggrin:

[goBIGblue82]

Just looked at the KHSAA scoreboard only goes back to 1998.

Belfry is 20-0 against true Southern Kentucky teams in that time. If you include Letcher, Leslie,and Madison Southern it is over 30-0.

In that time they have dominated A Corbin team who reached the Semis, dominated the best Middlesboro team of the past 15 years, dominated the best Southwestern team of all time , beat the best Wayne County team in school history, beat an undefeated and #1 ranked Somerset team in the Semis, dominated a Somerset team that reached the Semis and beat Bell County.

Suffice to say I wouldn't hold my breathe that suddenly history will change after 17 years of Belfry domination over teams from the South.

Belfry beat a young Corbin team in the first game of the season 21-0. That Belfry Defense played lights out, Forcing 2 turnovers inside the redzone. Corbin also had another drive inside the redzone stall after a unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. Belfry scored late in the 4th to make the final 21-0. I guess that is what one can consider domination. However, like I said that was a young team in the first game of the season. BTW it was not the team that went to the semi's. That was the next year when those young guys had a year of experience.

That's a whole lot of winning.

Since 1995...

vs. Middlesboro 4-0
vs. Somerset 3-0
vs. Cawood 3-0
vs. Pulaski County 3-0
vs. Southwestern 3-0
vs. Whitley Co 3-0
vs. Harlan Co 2-0
vs. Corbin 1-0
vs. Wayne Co 1-0
vs. South Laurel 1-0

vs. Bell Co 2-2

In the Past 20 Years Belfry is 26-2 against teams from Southern Kentucky.

I mis-spoke about Corbin, they reached the Regional Finals in 07.. not the Semi's

So the whole reason you started on this was because PJ claimed it wouldn't be as easy with Corbin and Bell now, and you throw out these numbers and hang your hat on it. Most of those wins are against mediocre teams at best.

I specifically was comparing Belfry to Southern KY teams for pjdoug since he thinks the addition of Bell and Corbin will suddenly change Belfry's fortunes.

They're 3-2 against Corbin and Bell and you're acting like that is a dominating stat. That's a pretty small sample size and when you figure in the other mountain teams that have beat Belfry they don't look as invincible as you make them out to be.

[goBIGblue82]

Belfry had Corbin out matched no doubt about it in that 2007 game, but I would also contribute a lot of that loss to CAM. It was an intimidating factor for a lot of the young guys.

[EKUAlum05]

Belfry beat a young Corbin team in the first game of the season 21-0. That Belfry Defense played lights out, Forcing 2 turnovers inside the redzone. Corbin also had another drive inside the redzone stall after a unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. Belfry scored late in the 4th to make the final 21-0. I guess that is what one can consider domination. However, like I said that was a young team in the first game of the season. BTW it was not the team that went to the semi's. That was the next year when those young guys had a year of experience.



So the whole reason you started on this was because PJ claimed it wouldn't be as easy with Corbin and Bell now, and you throw out these numbers and hang your hat on it. Most of those wins are against mediocre teams at best.



They're 3-2 against Corbin and Bell and you're acting like that is a dominating stat. That's a pretty small sample size and when you figure in the other mountain teams that have beat Belfry they don't look as invincible as you make them out to be.

First of all I called out that I misspoke about Corbin the very next post I made.

Secondly Corbin had less than 30 total yards that game. Corbin crossed midfield I believe one time. Everyone was hyping Clint Cashen as the next great thing and many were predicting a State Title for the Redhounds entering that season.

3 wins against Somerset teams who went to the Semis
1 win against a Middlesboro team that reached the Semis
1 win vs a Wayne County team in the State Finals
Defeated a Southwestern team who was closer than they have ever came before to getting a State Title

Those are some pretty quality teams...

Throw in the fact that Bell is not anywhere near the team they were back in the late 90's under Dudley... probably half the numbers and nowhere near the semblance of the dominant form.

Corbin is a program on the rise for sure with the young talent coming up and a great young Head Coach in Haddix. With that said with the heavy graduation losses Corbin took will have an effect for sure..I think if Corbin is going to get Belfry it will not be this year... I think they will be tough in 2016,,, but in 2017 I think Corbin may be the team to beat in the East.

[EKUAlum05]

Belfry had Corbin out matched no doubt about it in that 2007 game, but I would also contribute a lot of that loss to CAM. It was an intimidating factor for a lot of the young guys.

Corbin is one of very few programs who cannot play the "intimidation" card. Their program has developed a culture of big games and big game environments.

Also, if you recall that game was delayed shortly after kickoff due to the lights overheating.What "electricity" (no pun intended) and nerves should have dissipated by that point.

It was simply a case of Belfry's defense being next level and a young Belfry offense doing just enough.

[goBIGblue82]

First of all I called out that I misspoke about Corbin the very next post I made.

Secondly Corbin had less than 30 total yards that game. Corbin crossed midfield I believe one time. Everyone was hyping Clint Cashen as the next great thing and many were predicting a State Title for the Redhounds entering that season.

3 wins against Somerset teams who went to the Semis
1 win against a Middlesboro team that reached the Semis
1 win vs a Wayne County team in the State Finals
Defeated a Southwestern team who was closer than they have ever came before to getting a State Title

Those are some pretty quality teams...

Throw in the fact that Bell is not anywhere near the team they were back in the late 90's under Dudley... probably half the numbers and nowhere near the semblance of the dominant form.

Corbin is a program on the rise for sure with the young talent coming up and a great young Head Coach in Haddix. With that said with the heavy graduation losses Corbin took will have an effect for sure..I think if Corbin is going to get Belfry it will not be next year... I think they will be tough in 2016,,, but in 2017 I think Corbin may be the team to beat.

I had already responded before noticing your admission of mistake. It's not like a made a big deal about it, I was just surprised because you hardly ever make mistakes as you're always well informed in your posts. With that being said Belfry held Corbin to something crazy like less than 10 yards rushing. But, Cashen threw for 200 yards, so I'm not sure how that equates to only 30 total yards (unless you subtract all the penalty yards from the total). Corbin was inside the 20 3 times that game, but like I said the Belfry D was lights out. Cashen was a great player, but didn't have a whole lot of experienced talent around him.

[EKUAlum05]

I had already responded before noticing your admission of mistake. It's not like a made a big deal about it, I was just surprised because you hardly ever make mistakes as you're always well informed in your posts. With that being said Belfry held Corbin to something crazy like less than 10 yards rushing. But, Cashen threw for 200 yards, so I'm not sure how that equates to only 30 total yards (unless you subtract all the penalty yards from the total). Corbin was inside the 20 3 times that game, but like I said the Belfry D was lights out. Cashen was a great player, but didn't have a whole lot of experienced talent around him.

The biggest issue with that Corbin team that game was Campbell at RB.

Campbell was a big kid... strong kid..but not very fast. Belfry ate him alive with their quick DT's. The name of the kid eludes me but Corbin had a HB who would develop later that year and turned into a heckuva back. Watts maybe? Can't quite remember.

That Corbin team ended up being better than you gave credit for as well... clearly the next year they were lights out..but that 2007 team beat LCA who was a hair away from the 1A title..they also beat that Somerset team with John Cole.

[EKUAlum05]

I had already responded before noticing your admission of mistake. It's not like a made a big deal about it, I was just surprised because you hardly ever make mistakes as you're always well informed in your posts. With that being said Belfry held Corbin to something crazy like less than 10 yards rushing. But, Cashen threw for 200 yards, so I'm not sure how that equates to only 30 total yards (unless you subtract all the penalty yards from the total). Corbin was inside the 20 3 times that game, but like I said the Belfry D was lights out. Cashen was a great player, but didn't have a whole lot of experienced talent around him.

For the record we were both off, and I was off far more than you though . Corbin only had one redzone fumble I also found..the other was at the 28 yard line on an interception. With that said I was clearly wrong about 30 yards and never crossing midfield just once. :


EKUAlum05 EKUAlum05 is offline

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Quote Originally Posted by FBALL
This score doesn't really suprise me. I thought Belfry's speed on defense would give Corbin fits.

Did Corbin ever try to establish the running game with the big FB Campbell? That is the only way I could see them moving the ball against Belfry.
They tried.... but it was to no evail, by my stats I just took watching the replay:

Campbell: 5 carries, 3 yards, 2 Fumbles (1 recovered, 1 lost)
Cashen: 5 carries, -31 yards, 1 Fumble (recovered)
Fritz: 5 carries, 8 yards
Watkins: 2 carries, 0 yards
Sanders: 1 carry, 2 yards

18 carries, -18 yards


For Belfry:

May: 21 carries, 145 yards 2 TD
Lee: 9 carries, 68 yards, 1 TD
Hickman: 5 carries, 64 yards, 1 Fumble (lost)
Lovern: 7 carries, 27 yards
Varney: 6 carries, 19 yards
Elkins: 3 carries, -4 yards, 2 Fumbles ( 2 lost)

51 carries, 319 yards



PASSING
Corbin/Cashen: 16-26, 194 yards, 1 INT
Belfry/Elkins: 5-8, 83 yards

RECEIVING
Corbin: Madon 8-102 yards, Wagers 2- 20 yards, Watkins 2- 26 yards, Sanders 1-19 yards, Campbell 1- 14 yards, Fritz 2- 13 yards

Belfry: May 1-38 yards, Lovern 2- 13 yards, Varney 1- 29 yards, Preston 1-3 yards

TOTAL OFFENSE
Corbin: 176 yards, 2 Turnovers, 7 First Downs
Belfry: 402 yards, 2 Turnovers, 17 First Downs

PENALTIES
Corbin: 6/ 57 yards
Belfry: 5/ 29 yards

[EKUAlum05]

... and it was WATKINS I was thinking of that turned into a tough back.

[goBIGblue82]

The biggest issue with that Corbin team that game was Campbell at RB.

Campbell was a big kid... strong kid..but not very fast. Belfry ate him alive with their quick DT's. The name of the kid eludes me but Corbin had a HB who would develop later that year and turned into a heckuva back. Watts maybe? Can't quite remember.

That Corbin team ended up being better than you gave credit for as well... clearly the next year they were lights out..but that 2007 team beat LCA who was a hair away from the 1A title..they also beat that Somerset team with John Cole.

I never took anything away from that Corbin team. IMO that Corbin team had a legit shot at a State Championship. I only stated that they were a team with a lot of young talent and it as the season went on that talent really progressed. For some reason Campbell was one of many great backs to come through Corbin that the Coaching staff didn't appreciate. Not sure if you know this, but in the Region Championship at NCC Corbin was a dropped pass by Watkins away from going to the Semis.

... and it was WATKINS I was thinking of that turned into a tough back.

Watkins had a great career and played at EKU. It was pretty cool seeing him on the billboard in Richmond this year. Unfortunately he was sidelined with an injury this season. Fritts was also in the same grade as Watkins, and early on in his career maybe more dynamic than Watkins. But, Fritts never fully recovered from a torn ACL his junior season.

[goBIGblue82]

For the record we were both off, and I was off far more than you though . Corbin only had one redzone fumble I also found..the other was at the 28 yard line on an interception. With that said I was clearly wrong about 30 yards and never crossing midfield just once. :

I figured I was off some, considering I was recalling the game from watching it live 8 years ago. But, I couldn't find any stats so I was just hoping you would go along with it...haha

[RunItUpTheGut]

Corbin wasn't better than Central on their homefield.

When was the last time a team from Southern Kentucky even beat Belfry? Probably been over a decade at least.. Maybe even 15 years

I never said nothing about Belfry against teams from SKY.
I only said Bell and Corbin. There a whopping 3-2 against those two. Not exactly domination. I watched two Whitley teams that to be honest, weren't that good hang with Belfry just a few years ago. There not world beaters, and there path the majority of the past decade to get to the title game hasn't been hard at all. Corbin should have been in BG last year if not for a bad call here and there.
In fact, since 2007, id take Bell in 07, 08, 09, 10, and toss ups in 11 and 12, maybe even 13 since those 4 teams were relatively close.
I would have taken Belfry for sure only last year. That's just my opinion, and Belfry has more titles, but overall, Bell has been more of the mountain killer than anyone more consistently.

[EKUAlum05]

I never said nothing about Belfry against teams from SKY.
I only said Bell and Corbin. There a whopping 3-2 against those two. Not exactly domination. I watched two Whitley teams that to be honest, weren't that good hang with Belfry just a few years ago. There not world beaters, and there path the majority of the past decade to get to the title game hasn't been hard at all. Corbin should have been in BG last year if not for a bad call here and there.
In fact, since 2007, id take Bell in 07, 08, 09, 10, and toss ups in 11 and 12, maybe even 13 since those 4 teams were relatively close.
I would have taken Belfry for sure only last year. That's just my opinion, and Belfry has more titles, but overall, Bell has been more of the mountain killer than anyone more consistently.

You watched Belfry play Whitley in 2009 and 2010... the two weakest Belfry teams of the past fifteen years.

You honestly give thought to Bell County in 2013? That alone just blew your whole argument out of the water. Bell County got a running clock put on them by Wayne County and lost by two scores to Middlesboro. They also lost to a Harlan County team Belfry beat.

I have no problem saying Bell County had the better team in 2009 and 2010. As I said those were two Belfry teams that were not very good.

There also is no way to argue Bell deserves the credit for 2008 when they won the title...even though that Belfry team was darn good and was upset by Breathitt looking ahead.

With that said 2011 and 2012? Get out of here with that nonsense.

2011 Central beat Bell 26-0 as Bell found out how good the Yellowjackets really are... Belfry lost 15-14 and it took a perfect pass in the back of the endzone for Central to win.

2012 Bell couldn't even beat Central on their homefield with Central's starting QB out with a concussion. Everyone hyped how Bell had their calendar circled and how it would be a different story on log mountain. Belfry lost to Central as well..but by this point Central was back to full strength and it took Overtime to win it.

The only toss-up year is 2007. That Belfry team was scary good and obliterated everything in their path including Johnson Central and a very good and undefeated Breathitt County team. Bell County was very strong too though their schedule left a lot to be desired as they went undefeated as well. Both teams beat Sheldon Clark by similar margins in the regular season, but Belfry put a running clock on them in the playoffs. The only difference is Bell got crushed by a very good LexCath team in the Regional Finals..whereas Belfry got upset by an underdog Central team.


Belfry:
2014
2013
2012
2011

Bell:
2010
2009
2008

Toss-Up w/ Edge Belfry:
2007


Once again..this isn't your Grand Dad's Bell County anymore...Dudley ain't walking through that door and since he has left there is a clear distinction between Belfry and Bell. You will never see me deny that in Dudley's prime Bell was at times on another level (Though Holcomb's Breathitt teams were the best to ever come out)

[pjdoug]

You watched Belfry play Whitley in 2009 and 2010... the two weakest Belfry teams of the past fifteen years.

You honestly give thought to Bell County in 2013? That alone just blew your whole argument out of the water. Bell County got a running clock put on them by Wayne County and lost by two scores to Middlesboro. They also lost to a Harlan County team Belfry beat.

I have no problem saying Bell County had the better team in 2009 and 2010. As I said those were two Belfry teams that were not very good.

There also is no way to argue Bell deserves the credit for 2008 when they won the title...even though that Belfry team was darn good and was upset by Breathitt looking ahead.

With that said 2011 and 2012? Get out of here with that nonsense.

2011 Central beat Bell 26-0 as Bell found out how good the Yellowjackets really are... Belfry lost 15-14 and it took a perfect pass in the back of the endzone for Central to win.

2012 Bell couldn't even beat Central on their homefield with Central's starting QB out with a concussion. Everyone hyped how Bell had their calendar circled and how it would be a different story on log mountain. Belfry lost to Central as well..but by this point Central was back to full strength and it took Overtime to win it.

The only toss-up year is 2007. That Belfry team was scary good and obliterated everything in their path including Johnson Central and a very good and undefeated Breathitt County team. Bell County was very strong too though their schedule left a lot to be desired as they went undefeated as well. Both teams beat Sheldon Clark by similar margins in the regular season, but Belfry put a running clock on them in the playoffs. The only difference is Bell got crushed by a very good LexCath team in the Regional Finals..whereas Belfry got upset by an underdog Central team.


Belfry:
2014
2013
2012
2011

Bell:
2010
2009
2008

Toss-Up w/ Edge Belfry:
2007


Once again..this isn't your Grand Dad's Bell County anymore...Dudley ain't walking through that door and since he has left there is a clear distinction between Belfry and Bell. You will never see me deny that in Dudley's prime Bell was at times on another level (Though Holcomb's Breathitt teams were the best to ever come out)

I'll have to remember my team wasnt good that year excuse.you'll need that excuse this year

[EKUAlum05]

Now for that matter I noticed you also conveniently stopped at 2007...

2006 Belfry All Day over a 9-3 Bell team
2005 Toss-Up...though Belfry went farther both got crushed by a very good Henry Clay team.Very slight edge to Belfry.
2004 Close but just like 2008 Belfry has the hardware. For further rpoof Bell lost to Pburg who Belfry beat twice.
2003 Belfry and it is not even fair to even try to compare
2002 Tossup. Both team defeated in the Regional Finals to excellent opponents. EVEN
2001 Bell County...by a good stretch

By my count over the past 14 years I would only take the Bell County team 4 times... Belfry OTOH I have 6 times definitively and with the slight edge twice more.

[EKUAlum05]

I'll have to remember my team wasnt good that year excuse.you'll need that excuse this year

Even then...
Belfry still waxed Whitley's butt by 30 in 2009 and beat them worse than Bell did the previous week.

[Belfry0304]

pjdoug you may be right but usually state champ teams who bring back 7 on defense are pretty good

[pjdoug]

Even then...
Belfry still waxed Whitley's butt by 30 in 2009 and beat them worse than Bell did the previous week.

:lame:

[killbilly usmc]

Even then...
Belfry still waxed Whitley's butt by 30 in 2009 and beat them worse than Bell did the previous week.

Waxed them I like it, cant believe pb&j doesn't like this statement.