[Harry Rex Vonner]

And I noticed one thing about the inside of that pizza parlor. There are signs placed up on the walls with writings which honor God. Those signs no doubt, were the impetus for this whole affair. So as you so rightly point out Harry, it is time for Christians to stand for our God given heritage. But, as I see things, Christians have the authority of God behind them and a broad charter to fulfill; Luke 9:26 (KJV)
26 "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels."


Secular argument put succinctly; so much for free speech. Now imagine this same firestorm erupting over a muslim hanging Islamic writings on his wall. It would never happen in this country.

I put a major part of the fault for this attack on a good and decent family on the television reporter who went to Memories Pizza to "interview" the daughter of the owners. Of the nine restaurants in this little town, why go to a pizza parlor with religious symbols and biblical quotations on the wall to ask it they would cater a wedding? Any fool knows that pizza parlors do not cater weddings. Obviously, the reporter had her own agenda and chose this restaurant merely for the sake of controversy. She was further emboldened when she could interview a youngster. Just another example of the danger of today's media.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the reporter wanted to cause trouble and certainly did so. Someone in that area should hold her responsible.

[TheRealThing]

I put a major part of the fault for this attack on a good and decent family on the television reporter who went to Memories Pizza to "interview" the daughter of the owners. Of the nine restaurants in this little town, why go to a pizza parlor with religious symbols and biblical quotations on the wall to ask it they would cater a wedding? Any fool knows that pizza parlors do not cater weddings. Obviously, the reporter had her own agenda and chose this restaurant merely for the sake of controversy. She was further emboldened when she could interview a youngster. Just another example of the danger of today's media.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the reporter wanted to cause trouble and certainly did so. Someone in that area should hold her responsible.

Agreed. And what we have here is another manufactured crisis which, follows in the footsteps of the bogus Occupy Main Street Movement, the Treyvon Martin case, the Michael Brown case, and others. Social engineering is at work, and judging by the spin off crimes and copy cat crimes perpetrated during which the above cases were cited by the perpetrators, the effort has been very successful.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

I see that through several funds set up by talk show personalities and contributions from the general public, over a half a million dollars has been raised in less than two days for the O'Connor Family, owners of Memories Pizza. Don't wait to hear about it from the liberal media. You won't. I would hope that the total surpasses one million dollars in the next day or two.

I commend those who have shown their support and their resolve to stand by their convictions. However, I have been both disappointed and angered by the lack of support for this family from the "organized" religious community and its leadership. These leaders of all Christian communities are silent. Where are they? Are they really so afraid of the homosexual community that they must hide under their pulpits? If they are so spineless in expressing their alleged beliefs, why should we listen to any of them. And, why should we place money in their collection plates and baskets?

Actual;ly, I suspect most of them are far more concerned about their collection plates and baskets than they are of doing the right thing.

[TheRealThing]

I see that through several funds set up by talk show personalities and contributions from the general public, over a half a million dollars has been raised in less than two days for the O'Connor Family, owners of Memories Pizza. Don't wait to hear about it from the liberal media. You won't. I would hope that the total surpasses one million dollars in the next day or two.

I commend those who have shown their support and their resolve to stand by their convictions. However, I have been both disappointed and angered by the lack of support for this family from the "organized" religious community and its leadership. These leaders of all Christian communities are silent. Where are they? Are they really so afraid of the homosexual community that they must hide under their pulpits? If they are so spineless in expressing their alleged beliefs, why should we listen to any of them. And, why should we place money in their collection plates and baskets?

Actual;ly, I suspect most of them are far more concerned about their collection plates and baskets than they are of doing the right thing.

Agreed. Though I don't get around to a lot of Churches other than my own home Church, my experience with Church leadership has been equally disappointing. In fact, there are several subjects which seem to be considered taboo, political issues for one.

For example, I believe most pastors are a little more than reluctant to bring up the obviously unacceptable issues of our candidates. Though I would not hesitate to call out the particular party involved, that action is not at all requisite to get one's point across. I mean, there are only two viable parties, so pointing out things that run contrary to Christian tenets would not be an endorsement of either party candidate (who should never be named from the pulpit), if you ask me. All that needs to be said is that one party's platform, is openly and unashamedly all-in on abortion rights and gay rights. After that, it would be up to the Church member to vet the candidates he winds up voting for. The responsibility is his after all, and it is my contention that the Lord will therefore hold him responsible at the judgment. Aside from that consider this, if the Catholic Church for example, were to have made Attila the Hun Pope, we could have reasonably expected him to transform the tenets of the Church just a bit, don't you think? Likewise, when the "people" send representatives to high office, they reap how they have voted both here and in the next life.

But, owing to the fact that Church leaders wouldn't want to offend the delicate political sensitivities of the membership, one never hears that kind of thing from the pulpit, or even in Sunday School class for that matter.

But, to your point about the religious community being afraid to speak out against sin. I believe your analysis is spot on. We are somewhat afraid to speak out. I would analogize the situation as follows. Just as in the case of the mighty US military, though one may possess the world's most formidable armed services if he lacks the courage to go forth and subdue his sworn enemies, he is already defeated. Why? Because sooner of later that big ocean that separates us from Russia and China will be crossed, and at that point, we will be forced to fight or surrender.

Similarly the Church has seemingly lost her nerve. We are charged specifically of God to go forth and boldly proclaim His Word. Not cower behind sanctuary walls and stained glass windows. We are losing ground in this fight even though we are, or should be, empowered by the power of the Almighty to win in His name. Those who can summon the love and the courage to speak out against sin, will win. Just look at the result of the stand taken by one little pizza shop owner in po-dunk Walkerton, Indiana. I would imagine that your hopes to see over one million dollars going to Kevin O'Connor will be realized. If I had the choice between hitting the mega-millions lottery, I don't play BTW, or using my 15 minutes of fame in the way he did, I'd choose his way.

Men of courage need to step up and call out sin for what it is. Otherwise, like a nation cowering from an enemy, the government will bring this fight to our Church House steps. We will be ordered to consider gay pastors and provide services to include gay marriage. Now, don't get me wrong. God's forces will ultimate win the day. This grand stage on which we all play out our lives, has many acts. In this one, as set forth in the Book of Joshua, the individual Churches as well as the individuals comprising the various memberships must make a choice; Joshua 24:15 (KJV)
15 "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

In other words, the key to our relationship to Christ is choice. Each man whether he admits it or not makes the ultimate choice during his life here on this earth. It is he who must choose to bow or not, and having done so it is he who must choose to serve. Our own choices merely paint the true picture of who we really are and, God will reveal that portrait at the Judgment. Not that salvation is in any way earned through good works but, good works will be part of the "new nature" of every saved man, woman or youth.

[nky]

^most churches don't want to run afoul of the IRS and tax exempt status by preaching about politics from the pulpit:devilflam

[TheRealThing]

^most churches don't want to run afoul of the IRS and tax exempt status by preaching about politics from the pulpit:devilflam

Hey what can I say, when you're right, you're right! Most Churches are more afraid of the IRS than they are the Lord Himself. However, I believe there is a way to inform the flock that does not run afoul of the law where it pertains to politicking from the pulpit. The scripture is clear where abortion and gay rights are concerned, as is the Democrat Party Platform. Calling out those planks for the consideration of the membership without giving specific voting advice on either party or candidate, would keep Pastors on the right side of the law.

[nky]

In the current political environment there are those in power places that would love to use the influence/strong arm policies of the IRS to go after political threats(see teaparty)

[TheRealThing]

In the current political environment there are those in power places that would love to use the influence/strong arm policies of the IRS to go after political threats(see teaparty)

Again you are exactly right. My position on that as we have been saying here, is though the Church in recent past tried to live and let live, the result has been that her enemies have arisen to try to extinguish the Church. Pacifism never ever works. Not in the spiritual realm, and certainly not in the secular world. As is reflected in the attitudes of those who lead this nation in positions of high office, the Church has failed to challenge the US slide towards a state of heathenism and the fruits of her sloth now threaten the existence of the Church and the State.

At some point whether we want to face it or not, if we manage to remain a sovereign nation we'll have to square off against Iran. And just like in the case of pre WW2 Germany, we will have allowed Iran to grow to be a powerful and worthy military opponent. Unlike Americans, the people of Iran recognize and have been taught their own national heritage and historical influence. So, every Iranian knows Persia ruled this earth for quite a time in days past. The people of Iran will rise to the occasion when they are called on by the ayatollah to so do.

Similarly the Church seems to be suffering from a form of self delusion and, for reasons of inconvenience, can be counted among those those who favor leading from behind. The state of the Church and current world affairs make it obvious that leading from behind is the recipe for disaster, and cannot be done. What I am saying is that our choices have cemented our fate. The only way America could ever reverse her free fall into decline is if she comes to her senses. The Church must lead the awakening if it is to happen outside of extreme controversy and the trials of war.

At any rate, we can either meet our foes head on or, we can wait until our foes come to spoil our land and carry us off into bondage. This is true at the spiritual level as well as the secular. The IRS is certainly not more powerful than the God of the universe but, if it does come knocking at the doors of the Church it will be because we have brought them down upon us for our lack of faith and due diligence.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Several facts come to mind. First, the threat of the IRS doesn't seem to deter black and liberal churches from preaching politics from the pulpit. After all, they claim such reprobates as Sharpton and Jackson are actually "reverends". Second, Jerry Falwell, among others, did not cow down to the threat of the government. The IRS threatened him but did little.

Also, in the pure sense, speaking out against homosexuality and same sex marriage and the savage tactics being used by the homosexual mafia deals with moral tenets rather than politics. Thus, taking a public stand on these issues should be of no consequence in regard to the IRS.

Finally, the mostly silent, beaten down Christian plurality (not majority) in this country is begging for direction from religious leaders. Certainly, their reaction to the establishment of a vehicle allowing them to contribute on line to the owners of Memories Pizza proves that.

We, as Christians, need strong leadership from the recognized Christian leaders in this country.. We, in truth, have none. If they are afraid of the IRS, how can we expect them to be leaders in regard to Satan?

[TheRealThing]

Several facts come to mind. First, the threat of the IRS doesn't seem to deter black and liberal churches from preaching politics from the pulpit. After all, they claim such reprobates as Sharpton and Jackson are actually "reverends". Second, Jerry Falwell, among others, did not cow down to the threat of the government. The IRS threatened him but did little.

Also, in the pure sense, speaking out against homosexuality and same sex marriage and the savage tactics being used by the homosexual mafia deals with moral tenets rather than politics. Thus, taking a public stand on these issues should be of no consequence in regard to the IRS.

Finally, the mostly silent, beaten down Christian plurality (not majority) in this country is begging for direction from religious leaders. Certainly, their reaction to the establishment of a vehicle allowing them to contribute on line to the owners of Memories Pizza proves that.

We, as Christians, need strong leadership from the recognized Christian leaders in this country.. We, in truth, have none. If they are afraid of the IRS, how can we expect them to be leaders in regard to Satan?

Exactly. The truth is that the concept of separation between Church and state deals with your observation. Secular governments have no authority to question the clearly set forth moral edicts of God. Government has no authority to judge God's Word as outdated or errant in any case. Nor can they dictate terms to the Church. Conversely on the other hand, Godly principles applied to situations in the secular sense is wise practice.

In fact, the authority man uses to judge the actions of others such as in our criminal system of justice, comes from God. Otherwise it all becomes relative, the best argument prevails. Same thing is true in general where state and federal government is concerned. Hence the framers conclusion that our "unalienable rights" come from our Creator. Thus, in turning our back on our Creator, we have forfeited the authority to judge and govern effectively. I mean, we see proof of that fact nearly every time one of our political leaders opens his mouth. Does anybody really believe spin trumps truth? Lucid minded people know a lie the instant they hear it. None the less, the farther America strays from the guidance of the Almighty, the more the line between right and wrong becomes blurred and undefinable.

[Spirit100]

Does the bill protect business owners from litigation in the event they are sued for refusing to provide a service?

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Does the bill protect business owners from litigation in the event they are sued for refusing to provide a service?

No. Neither the original bill nor the "revised" bill provided protection for the business and its owners. All the bill in its original form did was to allow businesses and individuals punished for not providing service in violation of their religious beliefs to request a court hearing to defend themselves. Why would anyone legitimately find a problem with that? Of course, the Homo Nazis want automatic punishment for anyone who doesn't support their abnormal agenda.

[TheRealVille]

Looks like the shop owners had a pretty good plan, by saying they had to close because of death threats. They raised 842k from a bunch of suckers on gofundme, not to mention all the other monies they raised. :biglmao:

[TheRealThing]

Looks like the shop owners had a pretty good plan, by saying they had to close because of death threats. They raised 842k from a bunch of suckers on gofundme, not to mention all the other monies they raised. :biglmao:

The suckers are the low information types that think this whole thing is real. Some liberal bozo went into the O'Connor's shop and thought they needed to teach them a lesson, and score some atta boy points at the same time with the rag newspaper they work for.

It backfired though didn't it? I hope they get at least a couple of mil out of this and it looks to me like every local Church in this nation has the impetus for rallying against the forces of evil. Cause that's all this is, is.

[WideRight05]

The suckers are the low information types that think this whole thing is real. Some liberal bozo went into the O'Connor's shop and thought they needed to teach them a lesson, and score some atta boy points at the same time with the rag newspaper they work for.

It backfired though didn't it? I hope they get at least a couple of mil out of this and it looks to me like every local Church in this nation has the impetus for rallying against the forces of evil. Cause that's all this is, is.

We won't hear anything from the liberals about this.

[Spirit100]

No. Neither the original bill nor the "revised" bill provided protection for the business and its owners. All the bill in its original form did was to allow businesses and individuals punished for not providing service in violation of their religious beliefs to request a court hearing to defend themselves. Why would anyone legitimately find a problem with that? Of course, the Homo Nazis want automatic punishment for anyone who doesn't support their abnormal agenda.

Agreed!

Basic common sense, people skills, and business acumen prevail here regardless of ones sexuality or agenda.

Let's take the wedding photographer scenario and play devils advocate. Let's say Sally doesn't want to photograph Mark and Adams gay wedding. Better yet, gay Sam doesn't want to photograph Manuel and Consuelos hetero wedding, or Dan and Marys. nicker: See what can be done here folks?

Oh no I didn't...folks are going to select services/products they see as a fit. If someone is stand off ish, deflecting, not interested....why the heck would you choose to pursue an agreement/contract with them in the 1st place unless you wanted to impose your will on them and attempt to sue them in the 1st place and pursue a jacked up agenda!

In other words if you are an arse. A court of law will make light of the aggressors intentions or the potential defendant who for many reasons can substantiate not providing said service and avoid any judgements against them. Other than judgements from a misinformed "entitled" minority!

The bestiality and polygamist contingent is chomping at the bit...

Our country has discriminated in a good fashion for many years based on behavior not how folks look. When people "choose" to not wear shoes, shirts in a restaurant the owners/employees can refuse them service. When people act like idiots in a place of business owners/employees can ask people to leave. If a realtor, photographer, baker.....cannot meet unrealistic expectations with a potential customer they can simply say we don't have a fit or we can't meet your expectations and encourage them to go elsewhere.

Again, common sense, people skills, and business acumen will prevail!

:Thumbs:

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Looks like the shop owners had a pretty good plan, by saying they had to close because of death threats. They raised 842k from a bunch of suckers on gofundme, not to mention all the other monies they raised. :biglmao:

You've been spending too much time at union meetings. It has permanently warped your ability to think. Of course, that has been obvious to intelligent people for a long time.:Thumbs:

[TheRealThing]

We won't hear anything from the liberals about this.

It's got nothing to do with civil rights and everything to do with an assault on Christianity. As your video aptly demonstrated, they were able to find many examples of Muslims who would not serve a homosexual wedding cake.

Anybody can see that the forces of evil are rising as is prophetically and clearly stated in Scripture. I hope everyone will make the effort to get to Church tomorrow morning, in celebration on our risen Lord. God is not wimp, and He nor His people will be defeated. As I have said, though He is patient and long suffering towards men, His Word will not return unto Him void. The enemies of God are busy revealing themselves but, it is they who will be defeated.

[Spirit100]

It's got nothing to do with civil rights and everything to do with an assault on Christianity. As your video aptly demonstrated, they were able to find many examples of Muslims who would not serve a homosexual wedding cake.

Anybody can see that the forces of evil are rising as is prophetically and clearly stated in Scripture. I hope everyone will make the effort to get to Church tomorrow morning, in celebration on our risen Lord. God is not wimp, and He nor His people will be defeated. As I have said, though He is patient and long suffering towards men, His Word will not return unto Him void. The enemies of God are busy revealing themselves but, it is they who will be defeated.

Have a blessed Easter TRT! Thank you for your "true intellectual grit" approach towards honoring our Lord and Savior and bringing to light the many injustices of the current climate.

Hoping you are surrounded by friends and or family who make you smile, laugh, and simply enjoy life. This will be my game plan after attending a Holy Spirit filled Easter service at church. Although you like me can appreciate the value in actions and words away from a building. God bless you and Happy Easter.

[WideRight05]

"Barronelle Stutzman, a Christian florist, referred her friend and long-time customer to other florists because she could not in good conscience provide full wedding support for a same-sex wedding. Although the couple received flowers, the Washington State Attorney General, and later, the same-sex couple, sued Barronelle.

The court found her liable for violating the Washington Law Against Discrimination and ruled that both the state and the couple may collect damages and attorneys' fees from Barronelle's business and personal assets."

I pitched in and encourage the Christian community to do the same. The amount you donate is not important - it's about getting a voice out there. I, for one, have been inspired by HRV's call to take action. It's either we take action now, or like TRT says, these battles will wind up at the Church doorsteps.

http://www.gofundme.com/mz6zm4

[TheRealVille]

^Gluttony is a sin. Do you think someone should be able to turn away obese people at a restaurant, if they think it violates their religious view, by contributing to their sin, by letting them order all the food they want?

[WideRight05]

^Gluttony is a sin. Do you think someone should be able to turn away obese people at a restaurant, if they think it violates their religious view, by contributing to their sin, by letting them order all the food they want?

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, vaporized from off the face of the earth for the sin of homosexuality, a clear abomination according to God. I never read anywhere in the Bible an example of so much as even one man being punished specifically of the Lord for overeating.

Why would you want to start a conversation about the things of God when your many of your posts on this board fall in the line of blasphemy?

[TheRealVille]

^According to the book, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for a lot more reasons than homosexuality.

Because a sin is a sin, according to the book. And, you "religious" people like to cherry pick your sins.

FTR, you might not want to get in a bible debate with me, I'll smoke your ass.

[Hoot Gibson]

^Gluttony is a sin. Do you think someone should be able to turn away obese people at a restaurant, if they think it violates their religious view, by contributing to their sin, by letting them order all the food they want?

A business or sole proprietor should be free to refuse to do business with anybody for any reason. The government created Jim Crow laws in the south - not business owners. A free market is a fair market. Aside from all-you-can-eat buffet lines, fat people will always be welcome in most restaurants.

[WideRight05]

^According to the book, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for a lot more reasons than homosexuality.

Because a sin is a sin, according to the book. And, you "religious" people like to cherry pick your sins.

FTR, you might not want to get in a bible debate with me, I'll smoke your ass.

Where did I say it wasn't a sin?

A business owner should be able to turn away business for any reason. It's THEIR business. The owner runs it, not the government.

You must have a little doubt in the back of your mind if you felt the need to intimidate me by saying you could smoke me in a Bible debate.

[TheRealVille]

^ According to the book, a sin is a sin. None are worse than others.

That's the thing, a business can't discriminate. If a business discriminated against Christians, you guys would be going wild, wanting the government to step in. If you want to run a business in this country, there are discrimination rules.

No, I am schooled in the bible. That's part of what brought me to where I am today, but I still can stand toe to toe with anybody in a bible debate. At least, against the ones that don't try to twist up what it says.

[TheRealThing]

^ According to the book, a sin is a sin. None are worse than others.

That's the thing, a business can't discriminate. If a business discriminated against Christians, you guys would be going wild, wanting the government to step in. If you want to run a business in this country, there are discrimination rules.

No, I am schooled in the bible. That's part of what brought me to where I am today, but I still can stand toe to toe with anybody in a bible debate. At least, against the ones that don't try to twist up what it says.

Again, you're wrong. He who breaks the law in one point is guilty of the whole law, which just means that all men sin and no one can keep the law of his own volition.

I hate to break this to a self styled Bible scholar but, here goes anyway. "According to the book", there is no mention of any sin other than sexual sins and most notably the sin of homosexuality, given in the Biblical account for God's destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I mean, there's a reason they used to have what were referred to as 'Sodomy' laws on the books here in the good ol USA, right? And in some states those laws still stand; they are Louisiana, Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas and Utah. (I've considered moving to Florida BTW)

At any rate, "the book" is clear on the matter. God considered the explicitly sexual deviant acts of Sodom to be an abomination in His sight, for which He obliterated the towns involved to spare the rest of humanity from being exposed. Why? Because it is obviously a grievous choice made by the individual involved for which God (in this day) turns over unrepentant offenders to a reprobate mind. Which means they are singled out for destruction after death.

Here is the actual Biblical account;

Homosexuals demand for Lot to release his visitors (angels no less) to them so that they may KNOW them in the sexual sense.
Genesis 19:4-5 (KJV)
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

Lot's response to them in which he begs the crowd to forego their vile intentions and accept in stead, the sacrifice of his two remaining virgin daughters to do with as they will.
Genesis 19:6-8 (KJV)
6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

Now, this proves conclusively the sin for which God destroyed utterly the cities on the plains in verse 24, Genesis 19:24-25 (KJV)
24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.

[TheRealVille]

Yea, if you break one law, you beak them all. The the text is clear. If you are a glutton, you break the law just like the homesexual. You are making up your own opinion, in spite of what the the the text says.

I see you are just pulling out the words about Sodom you want to make your point with. There are other places where it talks of Sodom and Gomorra's sins.

Ezekiel 16:49–50

Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.

Also, apparently your god was also ok with Lot giving up his daughters instead, to be raped by the men. Sin is sin in god's eyes.

[TheRealThing]

I see you are just pulling out the words about Sodom you want to make your point with. There are other places where it talks of Sodom and Gomorra's sins.



Also, apparently your god was also ok with Lot giving up his daughters instead, to be raped by the men. Sin is sin in god's eyes.

Incredible, you actually cite yet another verse which calls out the abomination of homosexuality to try to validate your point, a point that cannot be validated from the Scripture. You can't name even one sin not connected to sex that the Bible calls out about Sodom, because none exist. Why would you say that God was okay with Lot's daughters being raped? Was it God offering Lot's daughters or was it Lot? We are responsible for our sin before God, He certainly does not have to meet little RV's cooked up standards.

America is a lot like Sodom. She is blessed with an abundance of goods, but she has embraced the abomination of homosexuality though not to the level of Sodom. Only one man in all of Sodom would not have committed this grievous sin and that was Lot. God drug him out of there before He wiped Sodom off the map BTW. Not all sins are referred to as being abominable before Him and He took the time to point those out. All sins are not equal, some are much worse. It would be absurd to suggest that an extra trip to the food bar would be equal to Joseph Stalin's sin of murdering his multiple millions.

In fact, all is sin that does not glorify the Son of God. None the less, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the sin of homosexuality, which is called out clearly in the 19th Chapter as being particularly grievous to God. A fact no reasonable Bible scholar would ever dispute.

[TheRealVille]

Incredible, you actually cite yet another verse which calls out the abomination of homosexuality to try to validate your point, a point that cannot be validated from the Scripture. You can't name even one sin not connected to sex that the Bible calls out about Sodom, because none exist. Why would you say that God was okay with Lot's daughters being raped? Was it God offering Lot's daughters or was it Lot? We are responsible for our sin before God, He certainly does not have to meet little RV's cooked up standards.

America is a lot like Sodom. She is blessed with an abundance of goods, but she has embraced the abomination of homosexuality though not to the level of Sodom. Only one man in all of Sodom would not have committed this grievous sin and that was Lot. God drug him out of there before He wiped Sodom off the map BTW. Not all sins are referred to as being abominable before Him and He took the time to point those out. All sins are not equal, some are much worse. It would be absurd to suggest that an extra trip to the food bar would be equal to Joseph Stalin's sin of murdering his multiple millions.

In fact, all is sin that does not glorify the Son of God. None the less, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the sin of homosexuality, which is called out clearly in the 19th Chapter as being particularly grievous to God. A fact no reasonable Bible scholar would ever dispute.

They are right there in the verse I quoted. The bolded ones don't deal withnsexuvl perversion. The point about Lot is that god is ok with him turning his daughters over to be raped, as long as he saves the men from being raped?


Behold, this was the [B]guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.[/B]



So, back to the point. Is homosexuality the only sin you are comfortable with restaurant owners discriminating against patrons. Would gluttony be a good reason for an owner not wanting to contribute to the patrons sin for religious reasons? Are the other abominations good reasons for an owner to be able to discriminate?

Proverbs Chapter 6
16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.