[Bob Seger]

So since mining is such an evil thing, do we also stop mining gold? Silver? Copper? Nickel? Salt? Bauxite(Aluminum)? Uranium? Limestone? Granite? Marble? Iron Ore? Zinc? Platinum? Magnesium? Titanium? Plutonium?

And BTW, we have already shut down the last lead mine in this country.


Ah, but who needs any of that stuff anyways?

[Granny Bear]

I have a very difficult time trying to put my feelings into words; especially when it comes down to a subject that I'm passionate about, or one that effects so many people.

I HATE what the Obama administration has done to my little corner of the world here in Harlan County. He has made good on his promise to take coal down, as far as I'm concerned. And so much happens after that. The trickle down effect has been morphed into the FLOOD effect.

There are so many folks leaving here because they must find jobs to support their families...so we are losing a lot of good decent hard working families, and replacing them with illegal aliens and parasites of the government.

I know that I will be accused of being politically incorrect, well I am.

What few people are left here with good jobs are supporting the masses. I believe this to be a country wide and not just county wide problem.

I have a really hard time trying to decipher the reasons why Obama wanted to do this, and why he has the support to win 2 elections.

I know I'm getting older and more set in my ways, but to do the harm that he has done just doesn't make sense to me.

[Bob Seger]

I have a very difficult time trying to put my feelings into words; especially when it comes down to a subject that I'm passionate about, or one that effects so many people.

I HATE what the Obama administration has done to my little corner of the world here in Harlan County. He has made good on his promise to take coal down, as far as I'm concerned. And so much happens after that. The trickle down effect has been morphed into the FLOOD effect.

There are so many folks leaving here because they must find jobs to support their families...so we are losing a lot of good decent hard working families, and replacing them with illegal aliens and parasites of the government.

I know that I will be accused of being politically incorrect, well I am.

What few people are left here with good jobs are supporting the masses. I believe this to be a country wide and not just county wide problem.

I have a really hard time trying to decipher the reasons why Obama wanted to do this, and why he has the support to win 2 elections.

I know I'm getting older and more set in my ways, but to do the harm that he has done just doesn't make sense to me.

alute:

[Smokey Hayes]

I don't see any response from those who are opposed to mining coal (a/k/a Obama supporters). I wonder why?

[AnotherPirateTD]

I don't see any response from those who are opposed to mining coal (a/k/a Obama supporters). I wonder why?

Because there is no power in that tree they are hugging and/or because he hasn't gave them a computer yet. But you may get a call they do have a free phone he gave them.

[TheRealThing]

Because there is no power in that tree they are hugging and/or because he hasn't gave them a computer yet. But you may get a call they do have a free phone he gave them.

:thatsfunn Very well said.

[TheRealThing]

I have a very difficult time trying to put my feelings into words; especially when it comes down to a subject that I'm passionate about, or one that effects so many people.

I HATE what the Obama administration has done to my little corner of the world here in Harlan County. He has made good on his promise to take coal down, as far as I'm concerned. And so much happens after that. The trickle down effect has been morphed into the FLOOD effect.

There are so many folks leaving here because they must find jobs to support their families...so we are losing a lot of good decent hard working families, and replacing them with illegal aliens and parasites of the government.

I know that I will be accused of being politically incorrect, well I am.

What few people are left here with good jobs are supporting the masses. I believe this to be a country wide and not just county wide problem.

I have a really hard time trying to decipher the reasons why Obama wanted to do this, and why he has the support to win 2 elections.

I know I'm getting older and more set in my ways, but to do the harm that he has done just doesn't make sense to me.

I see the problem as being much the same as the one they now have in Colorado. The morons or asylum inmates, take your pick, have managed to legalize pot usage in that state. The overriding result of which is that all the dope heads within traveling range have made their way to Colorado. Now they are dealing with an abundance of vagrant dopers lurking about on nearly every corner.

The point is this. Every time the loons get legislation passed, it always has negative effects. From the war on coal, to ObamaCare, to legalized drugs.

[Hoot Gibson]

I have a very difficult time trying to put my feelings into words; especially when it comes down to a subject that I'm passionate about, or one that effects so many people.

I HATE what the Obama administration has done to my little corner of the world here in Harlan County. He has made good on his promise to take coal down, as far as I'm concerned. And so much happens after that. The trickle down effect has been morphed into the FLOOD effect.

There are so many folks leaving here because they must find jobs to support their families...so we are losing a lot of good decent hard working families, and replacing them with illegal aliens and parasites of the government.

I know that I will be accused of being politically incorrect, well I am.

What few people are left here with good jobs are supporting the masses. I believe this to be a country wide and not just county wide problem.

I have a really hard time trying to decipher the reasons why Obama wanted to do this, and why he has the support to win 2 elections.

I know I'm getting older and more set in my ways, but to do the harm that he has done just doesn't make sense to me.

Obama set out to destroy the coal industry for one reason and one reason only. Money.

Think about the political donations that have poured into his campaign from crusading anti-mining environmental wacko groups and Hollywood liberals. Compare that to the political donations that people involved in the coal industry would have contributed to an unqualified left wing political hack like Obama. For somebody like Obama, deciding to destroy a major American industry and thousands of jobs in return for votes and cash.

The sad thing is, too many folks in places like Floyd and Knott counties cannot make the connection between liberals like Obama, the poverty in eastern Kentucky, and the Democratic Party. There is no reason for a would-be Obama rubber stamp to carry a single county in the Commonwealth of Kentucky tomorrow, but it is a safe bet that some of the poorest, hardest hit counties in the Obama War on Coal will be blue at the end of the day.

[Mr. Onion Head]

I see the problem as being much the same as the one they now have in Colorado. The morons or asylum inmates, take your pick, have managed to legalize pot usage in that state. The overriding result of which is that all the dope heads within traveling range have made their way to Colorado. Now they are dealing with an abundance of vagrant dopers lurking about on nearly every corner.

The point is this. Every time the loons get legislation passed, it always has negative effects. From the war on coal, to ObamaCare, to legalized drugs.

I thought that marijuana was legalized in Colorado, not crack? "Vagrant Dopers" lol. Things are actually going pretty well in Colorado with their experiment if you haven't noticed.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/...a-bargain/

Are there negative effects? Some. But you might as well have alcohol prohibited again. We know how well that went.

Do you want state rights or not? Or are they only convenient when they fit into what you want?

Regarding coal, I'm all for mining it, using it, etc. Obama has rapidly sped up the decline of coal and he has had a huge effect on EKY and other areas. But coal production has been declining for 30 years. I hope people can get back to work, but alternative plans for coal mining areas have to be made as well. How many people do you really "need" to mine coal these days when there are cheaper ways to go about it? Just hope that if and when it does start back that these areas can get some sort of infrastructure set up to be prepared for a rapid decline again when it slows down rapidly again. I've worked in the mines myself, and relied on it to put food on the table. I do hope it gets back up and running, but I hope we put other plans into place just in case. I don't think Dems or Republicans are going to cater to the needs of the poorest area of the country regardless.

[TheRealThing]

I thought that marijuana was legalized in Colorado, not crack? "Vagrant Dopers" lol. Things are actually going pretty well in Colorado with their experiment if you haven't noticed.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/...a-bargain/

Are there negative effects? Some. But you might as well have alcohol prohibited again. We know how well that went.

Do you want state rights or not? Or are they only convenient when they fit into what you want?

Regarding coal, I'm all for mining it, using it, etc. Obama has rapidly sped up the decline of coal and he has had a huge effect on EKY and other areas. But coal production has been declining for 30 years. I hope people can get back to work, but alternative plans for coal mining areas have to be made as well. How many people do you really "need" to mine coal these days when there are cheaper ways to go about it? Just hope that if and when it does start back that these areas can get some sort of infrastructure set up to be prepared for a rapid decline again when it slows down rapidly again. I've worked in the mines myself, and relied on it to put food on the table. I do hope it gets back up and running, but I hope we put other plans into place just in case. I don't think Dems or Republicans are going to cater to the needs of the poorest area of the country regardless.

They are vagrant dopers, and they have come to Colorado to indulge themselves. Many citizens of that state are distraught with the situation. I suppose if you were there to explain it all to them they might take on your peculiar perspective, but I doubt it. I said nothing about crack, nor did I in any way make any vague allusions to crack. I made clear the intent of my post when I quoted Granny in the first place. It goes as follows; with the fulfillment of the liberal vision, will come unwanted baggage such as has come to pass thus far in Colorado.

If I follow your logic, since alcohol is legal and claims a heavy toll on society across the board, we should therefore exacerbate the issue by legalizing pot. Isn't that a bit like feeling safe about playing Russian roulette because there is a bullet in only one chamber? It's difficult for me to see the silver lining in your thinking.

Yes I am absolutely for state sovereignty. That does not stop me from making observations that make sense about state policy that does not.

On the coal issue. I didn't see a word in your post regarding the main target of the war on coal, that being the closure of coal fired generating stations and more particular to us, the Big Sandy Plant in Louisa. Much less the innumerable jobs that have either already been lost or those yet to come. Another problem that I see and one of which seemingly little mention has been made, is the loss of electrical power that plant once generated. Will that not cost the consumer more both at home, and for anything they buy from the businesses that once used the electricity provided by the Louisa plant? The cost for abandoning coal at plants already set up to use it are going to spiral exponentially. It is comforting to know that Mitch McConnell enjoys such a large lead going into the mid-terms. Maybe we can fight off some of the ridiculousness.

[Hoot Gibson]

Obama set out to destroy the coal industry for one reason and one reason only. Money.

Think about the political donations that have poured into his campaign from crusading anti-mining environmental wacko groups and Hollywood liberals. Compare that to the political donations that people involved in the coal industry would have contributed to an unqualified left wing political hack like Obama. For somebody like Obama, deciding to destroy a major American industry and thousands of jobs in return for votes and cash.

The sad thing is, too many folks in places like Floyd and Knott counties cannot make the connection between liberals like Obama, the poverty in eastern Kentucky, and the Democratic Party. There is no reason for a would-be Obama rubber stamp to carry a single county in the Commonwealth of Kentucky tomorrow, but it is a safe bet that some of the poorest, hardest hit counties in the Obama War on Coal will be blue at the end of the day.

Coal mines are not like a water tap that can be turned on or off with twist of the wrist. It is very expensive to temporarily idle or close large coal mines and it is very expensive to reopen them. Those decisions are risky decisions that companies must make. With a president who is at war with the coal industry, there is no reason for them to be optimistic that the market conditions for coal will improve.

When miners are laid off, many of them let their training certifications lapse and find jobs in other industries, or simply exit the labor market as millions of other workers have done since Obama took office. Even if companies are able to reopen coal mines after we are rid of Obama, they will likely have great difficulty finding qualified, certified, and willing people to return to work in the industry.

Obama has done his best to slowly destroy the coal industry and there is no excuse for what he has done for Kentucky. Think about that when you cast your vote tomorrow.

[Panther Thunder]

The opposition to coal makes me seriously sick.

[TheRealVille]

Here might give a little insight to why coal gets into so much trouble.
http://www.kentucky.com/2014/11/23/35559...tucky.html

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
I wish all coal company owners refused to pay fines until the EPA was disbanded.

Good for these guys.

[Motley]

^
I wish all coal company owners refused to pay fines until the EPA was disbanded.

Good for these guys.

Good for these guys? The mine owners with delinquent penalties reported 4,000 injuries and 25 miners killed all while operating with delinquent fines. So it's good that someone like Horace Garrison Hill of D & C mining of Harlan County took in 50 million dollars while failing to pay their fines, because one of his miners was killed due to his negligence?

Nice slap in the face to the miners who deserve to work in a safe environment.

But I guess a few million dollars is more important than the safety of their workers.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Good for these guys? The mine owners with delinquent penalties reported 4,000 injuries and 25 miners killed all while operating with delinquent fines. So it's good that someone like Horace Garrison Hill of D & C mining of Harlan County took in 50 million dollars while failing to pay their fines, because one of his miners was killed due to his negligence?

Nice slap in the face to the miners who deserve to work in a safe environment.

But I guess a few million dollars is more important than the safety of their workers.

Its really too easy with someone like you.

[Hoot Gibson]

Its really too easy with someone like you.

Notice how terms like "took in" are tossed around to make it sound like the companies were extremely profitable. Of course "took in" most likely means "gross sales" and not profits, but that kind of detail never matters to socialists who are demonizing corporations.

There are a few bad actors in every industry but to use them as ammunition in a political war on the entrire coal industry as if the worst companies are reflective of the industry as a whole is just wrong. The propagandists make me sick and they are destroying this countries economic base.

[Hoot Gibson]

Here might give a little insight to why coal gets into so much trouble.
http://www.kentucky.com/2014/11/23/35559...tucky.html

The information in the report sited is from a website based in Arlington, VA. Washington lawyers do not know much about coal mining, except how to make it difficult operate mining businesses. I knew that you were an Obama sycophant, but I am beginning to see exactly how anti-coal industry you are as well. Lexington attorney Tony Oppegard and the Herald-Leader have been waging war on the coal industry for decades. They are menaces to the good people of eastern Kentucky and working men everywhere.

[TheRealVille]

The information in the report sited is from a website based in Arlington, VA. Washington lawyers do not know much about coal mining, except how to make it difficult operate mining businesses. I knew that you were an Obama sycophant, but I am beginning to see exactly how anti-coal industry you are as well. Lexington attorney Tony Oppegard and the Herald-Leader have been waging war on the coal industry for decades. They are menaces to the good people of eastern Kentucky and working men everywhere.

I knew you would do what you are just now trying to do, deflect the facts of the fines away to something that doesn't even apply. Who wrote the article is irrelevant to the fact that these owners aren't paying their fines. Does it really make any difference that it is Mine Safety and Health News, and NPR telling about the unpaid fines? Does that make the unpaid fines not real? Does the fact that these 2 sources combed through MSHA data slip through your mind?



http://www.minesafety.com/wp-content/upl..._20141.pdf

[TheRealVille]

The facts are, that a lot of the mines that have delinquent fines, have a majority of safety issues where workers are in danger, or are hurt or killed. If those guys were made to clean up their act, maybe some heat would come off of the coal industry.

[Old School]

The facts are, that a lot of the mines that have delinquent fines, have a majority of safety issues where workers are in danger, or are hurt or killed. If those guys were made to clean up their act, maybe some heat would come off of the coal industry.

Is it not true that if you are sited for a traffic violation you have the option to pay the fine or have a hearing before a judge to defend yourself?

The coal company has the same option, they can pay the fine or appeal the violation at which time the company is allowed to defend themselves and their actions.

Have you ever read any of these violations? Many Inspectors will write a violation as an S&S when it clearly is not. BTW, the cost of an S&S fine is about 3 times more than a non S&S, this is one of the reasons so many violation are contested.

May I suggest that the next time your in Pikeville stop by the MSHA office and pick up a copy of the most recent CFR. I'm sure you will find it a very interesting read.

[TheRealVille]

Is it not true that if you are sited for a traffic violation you have the option to pay the fine or have a hearing before a judge to defend yourself?

The coal company has the same option, they can pay the fine or appeal the violation at which time the company is allowed to defend themselves and their actions.

Have you ever read any of these violations? Many Inspectors will write a violation as an S&S when it clearly is not. BTW, the cost of an S&S fine is about 3 times more than a non S&S, this is one of the reasons so many violation are contested.

May I suggest that the next time your in Pikeville stop by the MSHA office and pick up a copy of the most recent CFR. I'm sure you will find it a very interesting read.

The fines are anywhere from 2-20 years old. If you read both reports, they are linking the owners that don't pay their fines as being the most at risk to hurting workers with their safety practices. My, used to be coal operating, buddy has told me about one of the owners being one of the crookedest operators in the business, that cares none for his worker's safety, just his bottomline. I don't care if you take up for them, or not. It appears that these types of companies are the ones that are helping to put a finger on the coal industry. I also remember Hoot taking up for the cleanliness of coal these days, and just the other day I read about a water/soil sample company rigging the numbers on samples,diluting water, and getting water from other sources, so as to get more business from coal companies. It looks like coal might need to do a better job of policing itself, and coal people like you not taking up for the bad companies.

[TheRealThing]

Is it not true that if you are sited for a traffic violation you have the option to pay the fine or have a hearing before a judge to defend yourself?

The coal company has the same option, they can pay the fine or appeal the violation at which time the company is allowed to defend themselves and their actions.

Have you ever read any of these violations? Many Inspectors will write a violation as an S&S when it clearly is not. BTW, the cost of an S&S fine is about 3 times more than a non S&S, this is one of the reasons so many violation are contested.

May I suggest that the next time your in Pikeville stop by the MSHA office and pick up a copy of the most recent CFR. I'm sure you will find it a very interesting read.

I don't think most lawyers give a flip about what is true or right. Like sharks, when they smell blood in the water they attack. You make a very good point Old School, you should know most people on here agree with your logic.

[TheRealVille]

^I'm indifferent about coal. As long as they mine it clean, and burn it clean, I say go for it. The reason I'm indifferent about it, is that I know most miners are for doing away with my way of making a living, and wouldn't go to bat for my union way of making money, one iota. Coal miners sit around here and whine about no jobs, while there is hiring all over the midwest for coal miners. I travel anywhere in the US to make money for my family, and just don't have it in me to feel sorry for out of work miners laying here in EKY, and WV bitching about not having a job. Get off their ass, pack a suitcase, and go find work where it is, to feed their family, like I do. For the last year and a half, I have spent the week away from my family, working 6 days a week , making money to pay our bills. For most of my 24 years in my trade, I have lived in a motel, or an RV, away from my family. If an out of work miner is looking for sympathy from me, after me going where I have to to find work, they are crying under the wrong tree.

[Hoot Gibson]

I knew you would do what you are just now trying to do, deflect the facts of the fines away to something that doesn't even apply. Who wrote the article is irrelevant to the fact that these owners aren't paying their fines. Does it really make any difference that it is Mine Safety and Health News, and NPR telling about the unpaid fines? Does that make the unpaid fines not real? Does the fact that these 2 sources combed through MSHA data slip through your mind?



http://www.minesafety.com/wp-content/upl..._20141.pdf

I understand that you would like to see coal mines shut down and more of your neighbors turned into government dependents, but at least you are no longer denying that this administration is waging war against the coal industry. I am sure that Obama is thankful on this holiday that he still has reliable foot soldiers that are willing to fight the good fight and help him to grow the Democratic base by putting more people out of work.

Every industry has a few bad apples. Not all "delinquent" fines are created equal. Fortunately, companies do still have the right to appeal citations and the amount of fines. The conditions that lead to serious citations are always abated before mines are allowed to resume operations while the amount of the fines may be appealed.

As far as I know, Obama has not stripped the right of due process away from coal mining companies, but he still has two years left in which to complete the destruction of the industry and the jobs that it provides.

MSHA has the right to shut down mines that do not correct conditions that lead to violations and they frequently exercise that right. Unpaid fines are not the equivalent of failure to correct dangerous working conditions.

Your crusade against the companies that continue to employ thousands of working men and women of eastern Kentucky is disturbing.

[Hoot Gibson]

^I'm indifferent about coal. As long as they mine it clean, and burn it clean, I say go for it. The reason I'm indifferent about it, is that I know most miners are for doing away with my way of making a living, and wouldn't go to bat for my union way of making money, one iota. Coal miners sit around here and whine about no jobs, while there is hiring all over the midwest for coal miners. I travel anywhere in the US to make money for my family, and just don't have it in me to feel sorry for out of work miners laying here in EKY, and WV bitching about not having a job. Get off their ass, pack a suitcase, and go find work where it is, to feed their family, like I do. For the last year and a half, I have spent the week away from my family, working 6 days a week , making money to pay our bills. For most of my 24 years in my trade, I have lived in a motel, or an RV, away from my family. If an out of work miner is looking for sympathy from me, after me going where I have to to find work, they are crying under the wrong tree.

Obama's war on coal is national in scope. Where do you suggest that an out of work coal miner go to find a job in his industry? Unlike most jobs, coal miners are only employable in areas where minable coal is present. They can't just start driving north on U.S. 23 and apply for jobs from Ashland to Detroit. There are very few coal mining jobs in the Midwest because there is very little coal in the Midwest and most of it is of poor quality - high sulfur, high ash, low BTU content.

I agree with you that unemployed coal miners should be willing to hit the road to find jobs instead of sitting at home and drawing government checks, but the jobs are being destroyed by the many for whom you voted twice. The liberal policies that you support have undermined the strong work ethic that was once so common in areas like eastern Kentucky. There are increasingly few incentives for unemployed people to move to areas where work is available, even if it requires new skills.

If only all unemployed workers would unite and form unions - because we all know that unions and not businesses create jobs. Right, RV?

[TheRealVille]

I understand that you would like to see coal mines shut down and more of your neighbors turned into government dependents, but at least you are no longer denying that this administration is waging war against the coal industry. I am sure that Obama is thankful on this holiday that he still has reliable foot soldiers that are willing to fight the good fight and help him to grow the Democratic base by putting more people out of work.

Every industry has a few bad apples. Not all "delinquent" fines are created equal. Fortunately, companies do still have the right to appeal citations and the amount of fines. The conditions that lead to serious citations are always abated before mines are allowed to resume operations while the amount of the fines may be appealed.

As far as I know, Obama has not stripped the right of due process away from coal mining companies, but he still has two years left in which to complete the destruction of the industry and the jobs that it provides.

MSHA has the right to shut down mines that do not correct conditions that lead to violations and they frequently exercise that right. Unpaid fines are not the equivalent of failure to correct dangerous working conditions.

Your crusade against the companies that continue to employ thousands of working men and women of eastern Kentucky is disturbing.

Like I said, I'm not against coal, I'm indifferent. If they mine it clean, and burn it clean, and keep workers safe, I'm all for it. But, I'll never feel sorry for whiny ass miners, that refuse to go where they are hiring miners. I travel to take care of my family. I do it, they are no better than me. The midwest is begging for miners. They always have the option of packing a suitcase like I do. But, most lay around here, afraid to travel to where the work is, and bitch and whine about being out of work. I spent years traveling to MI every week(home on Friday, back on Sunday, 7 hours each way), so my wife could keep her career here, and even traveled as far as New Mexico to work. Don't ask me to feel sorry for these guys, while the midwest is begging for workers.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Theres a risk. That's why they get paid as well as they do.

[Hoot Gibson]

Like I said, I'm not against coal, I'm indifferent. If they mine it clean, and burn it clean, and keep workers safe, I'm all for it. But, I'll never feel sorry for whiny ass miners, that refuse to go where they are hiring miners. I travel to take care of my family. I do it, they are no better than me. The midwest is begging for miners. They always have the option of packing a suitcase like I do. But, most lay around here, afraid to travel to where the work is, and bitch and whine about being out of work. I spent years traveling to MI every week(home on Friday, back on Sunday, 7 hours each way), so my wife could keep her career here, and even traveled as far as New Mexico to work. Don't ask me to feel sorry for these guys, while the midwest is begging for workers.

Coal mining jobs are not like construction jobs. I would be surprised that there are many companies in the midwest begging for miner because, as I said before, there are not many mines in the midwest. Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio have some mines, but they are not major producing states. If I were a young person in the mining industry and wanted to stay in the industry, then I would be looking for work in the Powder River Basin of Wyoming or the underground mines of Utah or Colorado.

If a conservative Republican is elected president in 2016, then some jobs will return to the eastern coalfields, but the damage that Obama's administration has done to the industry is severe and will be long lasting. Career bureaucrats have the real power in DC, and Obama has stuffed the EPA, MSHA, and other federal agencies full of radical socialists like himself. Once in place, it is almost impossible to rid the government of such parasitic organisms.

[TheRealVille]

^I was talking about the Wyoming jobs. I also thought Montana, but apparently they don't produce as much as I thought. With Wyoming producing 3x more coal than KY or WV, it would be a good state for someone that mines to migrate to. You name me crusading against these delinquent, unsafe companies, when the coal miners and the good companies should be rallying against them, not taking up for them. The unsafe, dirty companies are the ones bringing the bad name to all coal.