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10-17-2014, 05:01 AM
Im not trying to change anyone's mind or make a debate, but on the question of championships coming into play when accessing a player's greatness, think about someone like Anthony Munoz at Cincy. I think it is widely accepted that he was probably the best off tackle to ever play the game and he has zero championships. Now, before u say it, I understand that the QB has much more of an effect on the outcome of a game. However, I use Munoz as an example. Heck, look at Tony Gonzales, TE at Atlanta who just retired with zero super bowls and most consider him the best TE in the history of the leaque. Im just saying that being great at your position doesnt necessarily mean u win championships. I do, however, see both sides of the arguement.
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10-17-2014, 07:41 AM
ekff Wrote:I don't know why people assume that yesterdays athletes are better...
Training is better now...
I don't assume that yesterdays athletes are always better! I also don't assume that today's athletes are always better. I do think lots of people that write and talk about sports assume that today's athletes are better but they are not using common sense when they think that! Take the Shot Put it's a test of human power and strength, the world record in the Shot Put was set almost 25 years ago! Its the same for the high jump, discus, an hammer throw and the list goes on and on. Common sense tells me that if today's athletes can't break those world records then it is stupid to assume they are better for some mystical reason. Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor are athletes that transcend time! IMO the greatest QB in the NFL history played during the White/Taylor period of the NFL and that is Joe Montana. We all know that Montana won 4 Super Bowls but also has that stats from a time when the QB was not protected so much. In today's game you can't hit the QB in the head or below the knees or in the knees. or helmet to helmet IMO there is only a handful of QBs in the NFL that could have been successful QB's in Joe Montana's NFL! Guys like Tony Romo wouldn't even make a NFL team. Bill Belichick described Bert Jones as the best pure passer he ever saw. Jones's career was ended on a Neck injury. Helmet to helmet hits will do that too you!
10-18-2014, 06:51 AM
honestjchsfan Wrote:I don't assume that yesterdays athletes are always better! I also don't assume that today's athletes are always better. I do think lots of people that write and talk about sports assume that today's athletes are better but they are not using common sense when they think that! Take the Shot Put it's a test of human power and strength, the world record in the Shot Put was set almost 25 years ago! Its the same for the high jump, discus, an hammer throw and the list goes on and on. Common sense tells me that if today's athletes can't break those world records then it is stupid to assume they are better for some mystical reason. Reggie White and Lawrence Taylor are athletes that transcend time! IMO the greatest QB in the NFL history played during the White/Taylor period of the NFL and that is Joe Montana. We all know that Montana won 4 Super Bowls but also has that stats from a time when the QB was not protected so much. In today's game you can't hit the QB in the head or below the knees or in the knees. or helmet to helmet IMO there is only a handful of QBs in the NFL that could have been successful QB's in Joe Montana's NFL! Guys like Tony Romo wouldn't even make a NFL team. Bill Belichick described Bert Jones as the best pure passer he ever saw. Jones's career was ended on a Neck injury. Helmet to helmet hits will do that too you!
You make an outstanding point about L. Taylor and R. White. Im sure a case could be made that both were the best that ever played their positions. Taylor was one of those very rare players that changed the game. Chipping was basically started because of Taylor. I also like Belichick's comment on Bert Jones. I dont know if he was the best "pure" passer I ever saw but he was a heckuv a good one. One of my all time favorites, Mean Joe Green, was also among these type players. He was doubled practically every play. Pass rushing back then was easier on the D Line due to the Off Line having to keep their hands in to their bodies.
Just for discussion purposes, Taylor is #1 on my list of greatest players of all time. It is close between him and Deon Sanders. Sanders was, hands down, the best cover corner to ever play. Anthony Munoz is also on the list. He was simply overwhelming.
10-20-2014, 04:05 AM
Quickkickonthird Wrote:You make an outstanding point about L. Taylor and R. White. Im sure a case could be made that both were the best that ever played their positions. Taylor was one of those very rare players that changed the game. Chipping was basically started because of Taylor. I also like Belichick's comment on Bert Jones. I dont know if he was the best "pure" passer I ever saw but he was a heckuv a good one. One of my all time favorites, Mean Joe Green, was also among these type players. He was doubled practically every play. Pass rushing back then was easier on the D Line due to the Off Line having to keep their hands in to their bodies.
Just for discussion purposes, Taylor is #1 on my list of greatest players of all time. It is close between him and Deon Sanders. Sanders was, hands down, the best cover corner to ever play. Anthony Munoz is also on the list. He was simply overwhelming.
LT changed the game! Joe Gibb of the Washington Redskins developed a single RB offense using MAX protection with lots of motion and 2 TEs plus the H-Back position all because of LT. Some of these clowns on here think LT couldn't play in todays NFL. IMO he would be more dominate today than he was in the 80's because teams throw the ball now more than they did in the 80's thus giving LT more shots at sacking the QB. Deon Sanders was a player ahead of his time! His speed on the track is better than even the fastest players in today's NFL, his "Football" speed is unmatched period! A guy like Larry Allen who bench pressed over 700lbs is perfect example of player from the past would dominate today the same as he did during his day. The Dallas Cowboys have the best O-line in the NFL right now but it is a smaller and less athletic line than the one they had 20 years ago! There is NO DOUBT in my mind that the O-line the Cowboys had in the early 90's would have no problem lining up and running over the Seattle Defense of today just like the Cowboy line did last week! I will take that Cowboy's line for the 90's with a Prime Bo Jackson at RB and Montana at QB with Jerry Rice and Tim Brown at WR and break the WILL of a ALL STAR team of todays best defenders!
10-20-2014, 12:12 PM
I remember watching Bert Jones when I was a kid, he threw one of the tightest spirals I ever saw. At one time I think he held the record for most straight completions in a game, I think it was like 17 or 18 in a row, something like that. But he was playing in the same conference as the Steelers, Dolphins and Raiders so he never got to a Super Bowl. Put him on one of those other teams and he wins a couple of Super Bowls and maybe he is in the discussion.
10-23-2014, 07:18 AM
honestjchsfan Wrote:LT changed the game! Joe Gibb of the Washington Redskins developed a single RB offense using MAX protection with lots of motion and 2 TEs plus the H-Back position all because of LT. Some of these clowns on here think LT couldn't play in todays NFL. IMO he would be more dominate today than he was in the 80's because teams throw the ball now more than they did in the 80's thus giving LT more shots at sacking the QB. Deon Sanders was a player ahead of his time! His speed on the track is better than even the fastest players in today's NFL, his "Football" speed is unmatched period! A guy like Larry Allen who bench pressed over 700lbs is perfect example of player from the past would dominate today the same as he did during his day. The Dallas Cowboys have the best O-line in the NFL right now but it is a smaller and less athletic line than the one they had 20 years ago! There is NO DOUBT in my mind that the O-line the Cowboys had in the early 90's would have no problem lining up and running over the Seattle Defense of today just like the Cowboy line did last week! I will take that Cowboy's line for the 90's with a Prime Bo Jackson at RB and Montana at QB with Jerry Rice and Tim Brown at WR and break the WILL of a ALL STAR team of todays best defenders!
I cant find anything in your post that I disagree with. I know this post is about QB's but Im going to comment on Bo Jackson since u mentioned him. They can talk about todays players all they want but, hands down, a healthy Bo Jackson was the best player who ever wore a helmet. He was the greatest athlete I ever saw. God broke the mold with him. He could have been great at any sport he chose to pursue. He may have been an even greater baseball player than football. It was such a shame when he injured his hip. He was amazing and I am glad that I got to see him at his best.
As far as the Off Line players, u may well be right about the Cowboys O Line may have been the best. U might get an arguement from Redskins fans who remember the "Hogs." And I agree about Larry Allen....Geeeesh, what a man he was. He was great but I still think Munuz has a better body of work, even without a championship. Without Joe Montana at the controls of that San Fran offense, Munoz would have had a championship.
Regardless, I enjoy your comments. I can talk about 70's, 80's, and 90's football any time!!!
10-23-2014, 06:21 PM
If I'm drafting a QB, I'm drafting Joe Montana.. I don't care if he has 50 TD passes in the regular season. I want a winner. A Guy who is cool in the most pressured situations. Who has done nothing but win Superbowls..
10-23-2014, 11:25 PM
I Rule The World Wrote:If I'm drafting a QB, I'm drafting Joe Montana.. I don't care if he has 50 TD passes in the regular season. I want a winner. A Guy who is cool in the most pressured situations. Who has done nothing but win Superbowls..
If Im down 6 pts, with 2 mins remaining, on my on15 yd line, I agree with u. There is no QB that I would rather have than Joe Montana! Staubach, Elway, and Brady have shown great success in those come-from-behind situations too but I would still take Montana every time!!:biggrin:
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