[strange danger]

Is it right for the KHSAA , an entity not governed under Kentucky law, to punish students who get retained a grade by a parent who has the right to hold a student back nowhere under KRS does it say a parent cannot hold a student back. But, khsaa says they cannot participate if they do. If its in the best interest of the student and post retention they do not turn 19 prior to AUG 1 of senior year making them ineligible to participate they should be allowed to play. I'm pretty sure that's why the Aug 1st birthday rule is in effect anyway . Punishing athletes who are held back in middle school is ridiculous. let them play ball!

How can Khsaa who is not governed by kentucky legislature make decisions of punishment in our public schools?

[HDE]

The school representatives establish the rules.

[goBIGblue82]

You are still capable of holding children back. In my opinion it will still happen and in many cases should happen. However, the only thing that changes is they will not be able to compete in athletics during a hold back year. So they can play in 6th grade hold back in 6th grade and not compete that year and then resume all activities in 7th grade. The child still has the extra year to mature and develop, however they just won't be competing in the same grade for 2 years. - See more at: http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/sho...gE87O.dpuf

[goBIGblue82]

Let me start by saying I'm in no way trying to persuade your opinion of the topic. I understand your stance and there are pros/cons for both sides. First a few hypothetical scenarios. If a junior in high school is young enough to repeat his junior year and still fall under the KHSAA guide lines should they be permitted 5 years of high school athletics? If a 7th grade athlete wins state championship, named all-state, and plays in a all-american game what do they gain from holding back and playing against 7th graders again? Should a kid be permitted to compete for the same state championship 2 years in a row? What does a kid really gain from holding back, and can he not still obtain that from not playing during his hold back year?

My opinion is that is should be the parents and the parents only decision whether or not to hold their child back. However, being in their rights to hold their child back I believe it is feasible for the Schools or a governing body to limit a child from participating if holding back. It makes sense to limit eligibility to 1 year in each grade level. You asked how keeping a kid from playing would benefit anything. Honestly, it doesn't benefit anyone, but the benefit is the kid gaining a year to mature and develop his/her skill set. But, I don't think it could be considered punishment. Punishment would be like you previously stated that the kid would lose his senior year of eligibility. I would like to add, although it is my opinion that they shouldn't compete during their hold back I see no reason why they should not be allowed to practice with the school team. But, it is what it is, the rule is in place and just like all rules there are pros/cons and people will approve or oppose it. - See more at: http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/sho...eJbt8.dpuf

[goBIGblue82]

I think you're missing the fact that they can still hold back letting them mature and develop their skills. So your example of the kid just needing another year isn't valid. I believe the main reason behind the rule is consistency. Before it was left up to the schools site base to decide whether or not the kids could play during a hold back year. With middle school athletics growing greatly in kentucky there was a need for a rule to govern all schools making all schools play under the same rules. Believe it or not more schools already had this rule adopted rather than those who let hold backs play. In all honesty whether you like to believe it or not, Middle School Athletics in Kentucky are growing and headed in the right direction. There are numerous states trying to emulate what Kentucky is doing right now. - See more at: http://www.bluegrassrivals.com/forum/sho...d201I.dpuf

[goBIGblue82]

^ My responses to this topic posted in another forum.

[strange danger]

how does a body like khssa have the power to deliver sanctions on public school students when they are not governed or have any checks or balances put on them from the state level. If a child is held back in sixth grade and it is in the best interest of the child how does the khsaa hold the authority to keep a child from participating in school athletics. I don't think this is legally possible.

[strange danger]

non of the KHSAA board members were appointed by any state official

[nky]

State board of Ed has given the authority over Athletics to the KHSAA. The state legislation has given authority of carrying out the education to the KDE/State Board of Education. All three groups work together for the betterment of high school athletics.
The KHSAA must still obey the laws ( that's why you see lawsuits brought against them every year).
The KHSAA follows the wishes of the member schools. Principals and Athletic Directors meet every year to discuss issues and pass rules based on these issues. Including hold back rules.
Stop beating around the bushes- What's your beef with the KHSAA?

[Ghostofjoey]

If a kid needs to be held back for academic reasons he/she probably need to focus on their academics for a year. If you don't want them to sit out then hold them back before they get to middle school. The real issue is that some schools hold kids back for sports and they don't want them to have to sit out of sports during that year.

I am glad that the KHSAA is finally making ALL middle schools play by the same rules because some schools already had been making grade repeaters sit.

[KyRock]

I heard they do this alot at Johnson Central!

[THE_WAY_I_SEE_IT]

I have always had mixed feelings about this but its a fact.....the biggest majority of holdbacks are for athletics period. I have seen it over and over with coaching and officiating sports for a long time.........in middle school it makes a great difference and many wins result usually from schools that allow student athletes to participate in the same grade more than once. Bottom line.........they all catch up in high school and there isn't that big of a difference anymore. I can give you so many examples of schools that have all these great accolades in middle school sports and most of their high school teams never get out of their regional tournaments or parents end up moving their kids around to a different school where the team is better with different kids. I've seen middle schools do this with entire teams and completely alienate the kids behind them to where their programs suffer. I've seen coaches stop coaching after a bunch of holdbacks leave/graduate on to high school only to return when the deck is stacked again. I've even seen students that are held back at a school that doesn't allow them to repeat a year of participation go to another school for a year so they can play only to return to the original school when the holdback period is up. But that is for growing and maturing purposes only. Ultimately, it is the parents decision to hold back......khsaa isn't saying you cant hold students back.......just that they cant play/participate twice in the same grade.

[E's Army]

Parents need to do what is best for their child. Sometimes parents judgment is flawed.

[topnotch]

I have always had mixed feelings about this but its a fact.....the biggest majority of holdbacks are for athletics period. I have seen it over and over with coaching and officiating sports for a long time.........in middle school it makes a great difference and many wins result usually from schools that allow student athletes to participate in the same grade more than once. Bottom line.........they all catch up in high school and there isn't that big of a difference anymore. I can give you so many examples of schools that have all these great accolades in middle school sports and most of their high school teams never get out of their regional tournaments or parents end up moving their kids around to a different school where the team is better with different kids. I've seen middle schools do this with entire teams and completely alienate the kids behind them to where their programs suffer. I've seen coaches stop coaching after a bunch of holdbacks leave/graduate on to high school only to return when the deck is stacked again. I've even seen students that are held back at a school that doesn't allow them to repeat a year of participation go to another school for a year so they can play only to return to the original school when the holdback period is up. But that is for growing and maturing purposes only. Ultimately, it is the parents decision to hold back......khsaa isn't saying you cant hold students back.......just that they cant play/participate twice in the same grade.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH HOLDING a KID BACK FOR ATHLETIC PURPOSE.

[Gitback Coach]

Never understood this . . . If parents don't start their kids in school too soon, then they don't feel the need to hold them back later. Math.

[footballfever]

The rule has always been there but know it just in effect for Middle School also.
In the past if an 8th grader repeated 8th grade they could play on 8th grade team but couldn't play on Fresh or JV teams.
Even if a 5ht grader repeated they could not participate in HS golf or tennis or any other sport at HS level.

[zaga_fan]

if a kid needs to be held back for academic reasons he/she probably need to focus on their academics for a year. If you don't want them to sit out then hold them back before they get to middle school. The real issue is that some schools hold kids back for sports and they don't want them to have to sit out of sports during that year.

I am glad that the khsaa is finally making all middle schools play by the same rules because some schools already had been making grade repeaters sit.

this

[RunItUpTheGut]

Its very simple. If you want the rule to change and this is a huge concern for you (and its obvious it is for a lot of people for some reason) than TALK to your school administrators.

Do people not understand that a KHSAA is an entity that's set up by the SCHOOLS?!?!

Your school agrees to this. Your school has a vote on these things. I swear people think that Tackett sits around and comes up with a rule in his head and makes it so. That's not the case.

You can do one of two things if you do not like a rule like this one.
1. Get all the schools together and agree to do away with the rule.
2. Leave the KHSAA and start a new governing body.

Until then, your school has a say in this type of thing, and im guessing that the majorities of schools, especially the school administrations like the rule. Its starts in your own back yard.

[pjdoug]

Its very simple. If you want the rule to change and this is a huge concern for you (and its obvious it is for a lot of people for some reason) than TALK to your school administrators.

Do people not understand that a KHSAA is an entity that's set up by the SCHOOLS?!?!

Your school agrees to this. Your school has a vote on these things. I swear people think that Tackett sits around and comes up with a rule in his head and makes it so. That's not the case.

You can do one of two things if you do not like a rule like this one.
1. Get all the schools together and agree to do away with the rule.
2. Leave the KHSAA and start a new governing body.

Until then, your school has a say in this type of thing, and im guessing that the majorities of schools, especially the school administrations like the rule. Its starts in your own back yard.

or reconstruct number 2 nicker:

[pjdoug]

Never understood this . . . If parents don't start their kids in school too soon, then they don't feel the need to hold them back later. Math.

right, and the ones that claim its for academics can blow an onion sack up nicker:

[Do-double-gg]

right, and the ones that claim its for academics can blow an onion sack up nicker:

^Under water lol.nicker:

[RoShamBo]

I have always had mixed feelings about this but its a fact.....the biggest majority of holdbacks are for athletics period. I have seen it over and over with coaching and officiating sports for a long time.........in middle school it makes a great difference and many wins result usually from schools that allow student athletes to participate in the same grade more than once. Bottom line.........they all catch up in high school and there isn't that big of a difference anymore. I can give you so many examples of schools that have all these great accolades in middle school sports and most of their high school teams never get out of their regional tournaments or parents end up moving their kids around to a different school where the team is better with different kids. I've seen middle schools do this with entire teams and completely alienate the kids behind them to where their programs suffer. I've seen coaches stop coaching after a bunch of holdbacks leave/graduate on to high school only to return when the deck is stacked again. I've even seen students that are held back at a school that doesn't allow them to repeat a year of participation go to another school for a year so they can play only to return to the original school when the holdback period is up. But that is for growing and maturing purposes only. Ultimately, it is the parents decision to hold back......khsaa isn't saying you cant hold students back.......just that they cant play/participate twice in the same grade.

I used to think the same way. However, the current Pulaski team has a bunch of kids that were held back in middle school, were dominant at the middle school level, and now are enjoying tremendous success at the high school level. Not saying that a team is guaranteed success just because their players are older, nor that a team without many holdbacks can not win at the high school level. Just pointing out that there are exceptions to every rule.

[Mr.November]

What if your 6th grade is considered part of the elementary.. Does this rule still come in to affect?

[Pick6]

The strongest argument for holding children back, boys specificly, is not athletic, its academic. Staisticly speaking, boys are not ready for college at 17 years of age. This population is dropping out or failing to enroll in college at an alarming rate, and the trend is worsening.

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles...ation.aspx

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...en-behind/

In my view, many of the atletic and academic issues relating to delayed maturation in males could be allviated by raising the minimum primary school enrollment age.

The big problem here is that public schools are so starved for state revenue, they pressure parents to enroll ASAP when it is in the childs interest to delay enrollment. Public schools are putting their finaancial concerns ahead of the welfare of their students. They are very aware of the problems associated with thier early enrollment practices, but they don't change their policies.

[jlow]

Its very simple. If you want the rule to change and this is a huge concern for you (and its obvious it is for a lot of people for some reason) than TALK to your school administrators.

Do people not understand that a KHSAA is an entity that's set up by the SCHOOLS?!?!

Your school agrees to this. Your school has a vote on these things. I swear people think that Tackett sits around and comes up with a rule in his head and makes it so. That's not the case.

You can do one of two things if you do not like a rule like this one.
1. Get all the schools together and agree to do away with the rule.
2. Leave the KHSAA and start a new governing body.

Until then, your school has a say in this type of thing, and im guessing that the majorities of schools, especially the school administrations like the rule. Its starts in your own back yard.

The KHSAA only gives lip service to what schools want. They only act on what is best for them financially. If they actually went by what schools wanted then private schools would not be competing with public shools in football. (Schools voted this way in 2010 or something like that) and it was pushed under table. The KHSAA has gotten rid of limitation of seasons basically for all sports (except football) opening up a whole new problem for smaller schools. It is just a very political entity within the DPE. Overall kind of useless

[THE_WAY_I_SEE_IT]

I used to think the same way. However, the current Pulaski team has a bunch of kids that were held back in middle school, were dominant at the middle school level, and now are enjoying tremendous success at the high school level. Not saying that a team is guaranteed success just because their players are older, nor that a team without many holdbacks can not win at the high school level. Just pointing out that there are exceptions to every rule.

you're right.......there is an exception to every rule and there are a few cases where the success continues into high school but by far and large that isnt the case. to answer top notch as well........nothing wrong with holding a kid back for athletic purposes if the maturity and growth goes along with it. how many times though does it really make a difference? the concern is what message does it send a kid when he can dominate at the junior high level because he is more mature and then only to find out later in high school that he basically blends in with the crowd and no longer can dominate or be the big man on the field or the court. not every kid grows 5 inches and puts on more muscle by staying back. seen plenty of kids that stayed back for athletic purposes and never finished playing in high school. really this is a mute point because in 2017-18 state of kentucky wants to make starting age for kindergarten 6yrs old by Aug 1. that will stop a lot of the holdback issue for good. then age will catch them and not let them stay back. bottom line......it is a parents decision to hold back without question for whatever reason.......all KHSAA is saying is you cant play twice in the same grade. those that stay can play travel ball or something until they are eligible again.

[footballfever]

What if your 6th grade is considered part of the elementary.. Does this rule still come in to affect?

NO student can participate in athletics during their repeat year. If the student is just competeing in inter-school competition then it would be to that particular school.

[Hatz]

WHAT IS WRONG WITH HOLDING a KID BACK FOR ATHLETIC PURPOSE.

Nothing. If that's what a parent wants to do. (I do think it's a bad reason but to each his own)

But the rules state you can do that, just don't expect to gain an extra season of sports play because you chose that route.

[Wildcat18]

The rule currently states that a hold back must sit out the year he is held back. I would argue that a kid should be allowed to play. However I would recommend that he be able to play a grade ahead. If a 7th grader is held back in the 7th grade, he should be allowed to play up for the 8th grade team. If he's good enough, great. If he's not, he gets scrub minutes and reps in practice that he wouldn't normally get. The rule is intended to be a slap in the face to the school and discourage holding back, but it really just hurts the kid. In no way, shape, or form do I believe that making a kid sit out of athletics for a year is good for him. I've seen many kids "take a year off" from athletics to simply never come back out. Sitting out runs players off.

[THOMCAT]

I have no problem with a parent holding their kid back for whatever reason. It is ultimately the parents decision. What will be interesting is since we are looking at not allowing kids to play sports during a holdback year, what will happen when other kids are allowed to holdback and still participate as a member of the academic team, band, etc. We all know that lawyers are going to enter the mix at some point.