[kidlexington]

I wish you would have just said misconduct. would have saved me the time of looking malfeasance up. lol

I's prouda that one, man! Learned it reading newspaper stories about elected officials!

[MidnightRider]

If a kid can play at the high school level as an 8th, 7th, 6th grader then I'm all for that. I don't see how it harms/hurts anyone other than sophomores, juniors, and seniors that the kid(s) plays over. Which when that happens there's something wrong with that team from the get go. Kids that can play at this level should never be turned away from it or held back from it no matter what grade they are in. Seen too many schools, been at schools, that hated playing younger kids over a board member or county workers son who was a junior or senior. Sad thing to see. Let the kids play if they can play!

[Commanche]

Two things it does:

To the upperclassman he learns all about Entitlements, which are nothing more than gifts. Our government will teach him about those things in a few years.

To the younger player, it sends a message that if you work harder than all the rest you are probably gonna get screwed out of an opportunity anyway. So why try. Again our governement will teach him about those things in a few years as well.

It is the responsibiity of the parents and coaches to make sure he handles this situation with class.

Play your best 5, 9, or 11 depending on the sport.

[mad dog]

Most kids that can play high school in 8th grade have been held back 1 or 2 years and by the time there a senior they should be in college. they need to change the rules to only allow 4 years of high school sports. If they are good enough they can go to a prep school there senior year and if there not good enough then holding them back didn't work and there should worry about there grades anyway because there not playing at the next level.

[oldhound70s]

Everyone makes good points. So, are 8th graders allowed to play varsity football, baseball, and soccer? If not, what's the difference or why is there a difference?

[kidlexington]

Two things it does:

To the upperclassman he learns all about Entitlements, which are nothing more than gifts. Our government will teach him about those things in a few years.

To the younger player, it sends a message that if you work harder than all the rest you are probably gonna get screwed out of an opportunity anyway. So why try. Again our governement will teach him about those things in a few years as well.

You’re welcome to your opinion, which makes as much sense as mine. But where do you see “Entitlement” in this. If teams are limited to students WHO ACTUALLY ATTEND THE SCHOOL THEY REPRESENT, they still have to try out competitively against every other student in the school that wants to join the team. If they make the team, they still have to do all the work and follow all the rules, make the coach happy, and compete for playing time with all the other teammates. That’s not entitlement.

When you introduce holdbacks playing up in public schools, then you’ve introduced entitlements! Their family feels entitled to an extra year of “free public education,” which isn’t free but paid for by the taxpayers to the tune of 8 or 10 grand. If they want the kid to play high school too, why the heck did they hold him back? So little Johnny-holdback can get an extra year to set a new scoring record and forever have his jockstrap on display in the trophy case of Podunk High? If we don’t want to call this unnecessary theft of taxpayer money an Entitlement, let’s call it what it is, welfare fraud. Taking thousands of dollars of public aid when it’s not necessary, but to gain personal advantage. Taxpayers should only pay for repeating a grade when education professionals feel it’s in the child’s best interest.

If you're really worried about the kid on his OWN high school team learning about government entitlements, keep him away from the middle school holdback who is already gaming the system.

[KY Headhunter]

I feel if the kid is good enough then bring him up. I know some schools dont allow it. We picked up a solid basketball and baseball player here at Knott from Allen Central because they wouldnt allow it. He is a solid basketball player as 8th grader and I have not seen him play baseball but have heard he played some varsity last year as 7th grader.

[JCHS Alumni Eagle]

I think high school teams should be comprised of high school kids end of story. I don't have a kid that age mine are both girls in elementary school. As far as the cost of holding a student back is concerned, mine will both be hold backs. I'm in the field of education and I feel that I have already since about the age of 16 paid more then enough in taxes so that my money will be all that is needed to pay for thier extra year. So that shouldn't be an issue for anyone, I've paid taxes for over 15 years now personally and my wife has done the same. People should think of it this way I will know where part of my tax money is going and that's reinvesting an extra year of maturity into both of my girls before I have to turn them loose I to this old world. I bet most of those with the issue that feel it shouldn't been done would feel better knowing thier money if paying for free cell phones, health care, groceries, head start services in which my kids weren't aloud to participate in and many other crap things.

[Stardust]

My thoughts are just based off what Ive seen at Corbin. It seems Coach P has been burned by several 8th graders he's moved up. It may have been successful at other places. First of all what about the cohesiveness and friendships with players of their own age? Do you think it is damaged? What about the confidence of the 8th grader should he struggle at the varsity level? What about upper class man who have busted their rumps for four years and the team cohesiveness they have established? Do you think it hurts team unity? What if they are not getting any JV, Freshmen, or 8th grade time and limited varsity time? Does that help the 8th grader? What about the ego of the 8th grader....the Hill kid's ego was out of control when he was at Corbin. Anyhow, I thought this was a good topic for discussion since it was brought up on the Corbin/North Laurel thread. Looking forward to more posts.

Friendships will not be lost, camaraderie will not be damaged, but you are certainly hurting the growth of both groups of kids. If you have an underclassman that is good enough to compete at the Varsity level, then how can you justify him not playing with equal competition. How can you justify the other kids to not grow as players because they havehad to defer to a player far superior to them.

I would guess that a player who could compete at the varsity level is good enough to compete at the JV level as well. My guess is if the player proved the coaches instincts wrong in thinking the player was mature enough to compete at that level, then there are still options for a taletned player to play at a higher level than Middle School sports.

If you have players that are being outplayed by an 8th grader, then that player is not good enough to be a starter in the first place. No coach is going to sit a very talented upper class-man for an 8th grader who is not capable of playing at that level.

I coach, and I know for a fact, players want to win. The only players who won't like it are the players who are sitting on the bench, but I guarantee you the players who are the primary minute getters want to play along side the BEST players,regardless of age

I can't imagine that a coach is going to pull an 8th grader who is not good enough to play. That would be a ridiculous scenario.

Ego can be coached! A star player for the team has an Ego, it is a natural human instinct. That is the role of the coach to control that in the confines of the team. As for around his buddy's, well, if he is that good, then he is the stud for the middle school team, and if he is the STUD, then he already has an ego! Those kids get their ego checked when they play Varsity level sports on their team. Ego is not something that I worry about. That kid has likely made it past the rest of his group because of confidence, so what is wrong with having ego as long as it can be controlled at the team level.

[Stardust]

I think high school teams should be comprised of high school kids end of story. I don't have a kid that age mine are both girls in elementary school. As far as the cost of holding a student back is concerned, mine will both be hold backs. I'm in the field of education and I feel that I have already since about the age of 16 paid more then enough in taxes so that my money will be all that is needed to pay for thier extra year. So that shouldn't be an issue for anyone, I've paid taxes for over 15 years now personally and my wife has done the same. People should think of it this way I will know where part of my tax money is going and that's reinvesting an extra year of maturity into both of my girls before I have to turn them loose I to this old world. I bet most of those with the issue that feel it shouldn't been done would feel better knowing their money if paying for free cell phones, health care, groceries, head start services in which my kids weren't aloud to participate in and many other crap things.

I hear a lot of "I've paid my dues, and I will do what I feel is best for ME!" With that thinking, how can you possibly support a system that would hold your two daughters back from being the best that they can be? How can you support that a system say's, nope "your daughters cannot receive equal pay until they put in their time versus what their abilities are?". How can you support a system that allows, especially in girl high school sports, to let the best athletes compete against the best athletes and be forced to play against inferior competition that does stunts the abilities of your daughters until they reach a magical grade number? Especially if you plan to hold your girls back, what do you think they will possibly gain by being the age of a Freshman, yet playing against 8th graders who could possibly even be 7th graders age wise. Why wouldn't you want your daughters that extra year of competing against the best and advancing to their peak even faster than others?

As for this whole argument of hold backs, that is completely the fear of the parent and has ZERO to do with the athlete! Both myself and my son were 17 when we graduated (I have an October Birthday and was 16 when I started my Senior year). Both of us played college baseball. I coach at the High School level, and I have put more kids in college athletics who were not hold-backs than I have who went to school with the kids their own age. It's an argument that just does not hold water. I had the privilege to watch OJ Mayo and Bill Walker both dominate High School basketball at North College Hill as Freshmen, Sophomore, and Juniors. They were both 18 their Junior Year, and for anyone to not think they could have started at Division 1 schools that next year are crazy. They WASTED another year by playing High School basketball versus getting to college and the NBA one year earlier!

[kidlexington]

As far as the cost of holding a student back is concerned, mine will both be hold backs. I'm in the field of education and I feel that I have already since about the age of 16 paid more then enough in taxes so that my money will be all that is needed to pay for thier extra year. So that shouldn't be an issue for anyone, I've paid taxes for over 15 years now personally and my wife has done the same.

And this is in rebuttal of my claim that people who hold their kids back unnecessarily feel they’re entitled?

[Catfan09]

And this is in rebuttal of my claim that people who hold their kids back unnecessarily feel they’re entitled?

Entitled to what?

[kidlexington]

Entitled to what?

In reference to posts 33 and 36 and others above.

[ky playmaker]

How do you feel about a kid that just started late didnt cost tax payers any extra money but is still considered a holdback

[IntheZone]

Dylan James just scored his 1000th point as a freshman. He has played since he was a 6 or 7 grader. If you can play you can play no matter how old you are.

[JCHS Alumni Eagle]

I hear a lot of "I've paid my dues, and I will do what I feel is best for ME!" With that thinking, how can you possibly support a system that would hold your two daughters back from being the best that they can be? How can you support that a system say's, nope "your daughters cannot receive equal pay until they put in their time versus what their abilities are?". How can you support a system that allows, especially in girl high school sports, to let the best athletes compete against the best athletes and be forced to play against inferior competition that does stunts the abilities of your daughters until they reach a magical grade number? Especially if you plan to hold your girls back, what do you think they will possibly gain by being the age of a Freshman, yet playing against 8th graders who could possibly even be 7th graders age wise. Why wouldn't you want your daughters that extra year of competing against the best and advancing to their peak even faster than others?

As for this whole argument of hold backs, that is completely the fear of the parent and has ZERO to do with the athlete! Both myself and my son were 17 when we graduated (I have an October Birthday and was 16 when I started my Senior year). Both of us played college baseball. I coach at the High School level, and I have put more kids in college athletics who were not hold-backs than I have who went to school with the kids their own age. It's an argument that just does not hold water. I had the privilege to watch OJ Mayo and Bill Walker both dominate High School basketball at North College Hill as Freshmen, Sophomore, and Juniors. They were both 18 their Junior Year, and for anyone to not think they could have started at Division 1 schools that next year are crazy. They WASTED another year by playing High School basketball versus getting to college and the NBA one year earlier!

I never sad that I would not allow my kids the opportunity to play up if they can by rule. I just said I think that high school teams should be filled by high school players. I also was not a hold back and competed in college I had been 18 for 6 days on my grad date. I also agree that probably more non hold back kids play college sports as well. My daughters are 5 and 7 I'm not even sure that they will want to play ball. If they do great if not who cares. I just like the idea of being able to know what my two will be doing for an extra year which may or may not allow them to mature a bit more. As their birthdays fall now they will both still be 18 in the second half of what will be their second semester in college. My decision has absolutely nothing to do wih sports.

[JCHS Alumni Eagle]

I don't feel entitled to anything. As the rules and law read at this time I can hold my children back if I so choose to do so, as can you. It just so happens my reasons have nothing to do with sports, however, if it were simply for sports it would make no difference. What I have a hard time understanding is in the world we live it, we you and I along with all others in the working class are paying for everything occurring in this country. Rather then gripping about your money paying for Obama phones, or paying for food stamps for a person who is more then able to work, or disability for someone who is not disabled, you are choosing to grip about reinvesting in our youth. One of my kids are born in the month of July the other the end of April. One will graduate at 18 by about a month may be less depending on the whether that year. The other will turn 18 1 month prior to entering college. I do not like the idea of my GIRLS gong away from home at this age. As seniors my kids will be 18 the age that they should be. One will be 19 a month before graduation the other shortly after. I see no problem with this. I would much rather lobby over far more long term issues such as those listed above because truthfully, as tax payers we would spend far less holding every kid that passes through the state of ky back one year then we will by paying for phones, food, med care, etc. at least this way we are reinvesting in our kids not he other. Again this is only my opinion and my reasoning for my decision. If you respectfully disagree then that's more then ok, that's why we live in his great nation so we have the opportunity to independently make decisions we find best for our kids. Because in the end everyone here wants what is best for their kid and who knows their kids better then the parent!

[kidlexington]

How do you feel about a kid that just started late didnt cost tax payers any extra money but is still considered a holdback

Sounds to me like some pretty fine parents decided what was best for their kid and took personal responsibility to make it happen instead of dumping it on the taxpayers. Probably impacted their work schedules and ability to earn, or increased their child care expenses, too. I bet most parents who opt to start late do it for reasons of overall development, not sports. Good for them.

[ky playmaker]

I can understand peoples frustration with holdbacks. especially from areas that do not do it that often. In areas that do it alot it becomes a culture and for good reason. say your kid is starting qb for the 6th grade team and not held back. he looses his job the next year because of a holdback. You and your kid see that he must holdback to keep up so you holdback. It becomes a cycle in areas that do it alot and if you dont holdback in those areas that do it then your kid is gonna suffer unless he/she is a early bloomer

[ky playmaker]

The frustration is only at the middle school level where it is the biggest advantage though. By the time they reach high school it all evens out and the ones that didnt holdback catch up but I have seen many kids lost during this time because they didnt holdback and lost alot of reps and game time to the kids that did holdback. The thinking is this, do I sit there and let the 13 year old 6th grader take my 11 year olds floor time or do I hold him back. Most of the time the answer is hold him back. idk right or wrong its the way it is

[JCHS Alumni Eagle]

The issue is hold backs should occur prior to or at the 5th grade. The khsaa should implement rules to govern this if it is an issue. However, with all the tax payers money covering all these court injunctions not sure what good it would do. Also on last note, the thing that bothers me the most about the whole debate is that people try to make it a money issue. In all actually it all boils down to someone's kid not getting to play because of a hold back some where. I don't know why people just can't say, my kid is sitting and watching a kid 2 grade level higher by age play in front of them.

[three]

Parents deciede if they want their kids to graduate at 17 or 19 years old. Parents should deciede what is best for their child and stop worrying about what other parents are doing with their children. If your upset because a holdback has taken playing time from your child, then get out and work your child so he will get better. Any coach that is worth his salt is not going to play a kid just because he stayed back over another kid that is more skilled and a year younger.

[FarristownFlyer]

The Hawkins kids from Central who is at UK played up as an 8th grader...if you're good, you're good!

[Sportsfan57]

I think it could be a positive thing. It would give 8th graders some good experience, but it would depend on the program. If there was enough "space" for them. I think they shouldn't take the High Schools play time.

[three]

I agree with FarristownFlyer, if you can play and work hard on your game you will get playing time.

[Wildcat18]

As a tax-payer in Somerset, I'm currently paying for two downtown water fountains that shoot H2O into the air worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and a $10 million dollar library that could have served it's purpose for half that price and is borderline going out of business. If a kid wants to hold back, be my guest. I have no problem paying for that because I know it does benefit the kid in the long-run. I've seen it personally. Tax-payers complaining about hold backs are so closed minded, they don't see the bigger picture and it's somewhat pathetic that's the one thing you choose to whine about as far as taxes go. You're talking a few dollars to millions difference. My advice is to grow up, work harder, and drop the excuses because your senior may or may not be good enough to compete with an 8th grader.

[BrokenArrow]

I played 6 years of varsity baseball. While i did not start until my sophomore year, I entered every game late to play shortstop when he would close. There was no entitlements given, and i didnt ask to be moved from middleschool team to the Varsity team. Did it help me as a player, I would say yes because of the competion, but who knows. Where there players and parents pissed, I'd say yes but they never vioced it toward me. All i knows is the team results were the best in history of school and still stand to this day.

[meat loaf]

Everyone makes good points. So, are 8th graders allowed to play varsity football, baseball, and soccer? If not, what's the difference or why is there a difference?

Base ball -yes, other two are considered contact sport and not allowed.

[FarristownFlyer]

That's correct Meat Loaf,
KHSAA and most state level organizations say no to playing up with sports of contact. That does include soccer...that's a whole other topic...LOL!!!

[m1098173]

When did this discussion become about hold backs. All because a child can play up doesn't mean that he or she is a hold back. And about the kid in Knott that came from Allen Central. I know for a fact that he is not a hold back. I saw him play baseball for Knott Central last year as a 13 yr old 7th grader. Fresh out of little league and good enough to play up. He wasn't the only one who played up either. A couple of sixth graders also played up because the coach believed in their abilities and he was right. Some kids are just exceptional and they deserve the chance to show what they can do. By the way, keep an eye on Knott Central baseball, they are better this year than they were last year. Go Patriots.