[FBfan4life]

Here we go. Poor public schools. Of course, none of them recruit, do they? Certainly not Scott County.

Theres recuiting being done all over. Public or private schools. Scott County is a good example. One who resides in Fayette, but parent(s) works at Toyota of Georgetown, attends Scott County. Mmmm makes us wonders. Point is, recruiting happens everywhere. Some just has better sale pitch:rockon:

[FBfan4life]

Public school programs have to develop and nurture their own feeder systems, have summer camps to teach kids and youth coaches the offensive and defensive systems and we have to convince these kids to stay in the program when located close to lower class programs that have EASY paths to state titles.

Public school programs don't get to select the talent that other coaches worked hard to develop!!!!!

That's balogna bro, can't speak for other counties, but here in Fayette County. Parents can take their kids and placed/ enrolled them into another school outside their district. Majority of those kids also plays sports. So now we have a student, who plays sports that is out of district. Yeah right... That student just got recruited to attend that school for sports. ie Bryan Station kids to Lafayette for their examplar pre- engineering or SCAPA program, or a Tates Creek kids to Dunbar for their examplar in mathematics.

[Hoot Gibson]

Hoot, you are dead wrong. I believe if you will check, we for one, used to play Ind big schools all the time. Evansville Mater Dei comes to mind. We have beaten them. I would say our series would probably be about even and we are just a 1a school. I think PT played them pretty tough this year. In 2009 we beat Evansville Harrison. In 2010 Graves Co beat that same team. I did not say all states play different classes for privates vs publics. I said most. I also said either separate or the 1 up rule. That means some of these very states you are referring to may be playing the 1 up rule just like I spoke of. I for one think it is a very distinct advantage leaning in the direction of the private schools. I would be about like taking our best D3 College team and playing against an SEC team that has more opportunity to recruit. T and X are bringing kids in from out of state all the time. Our kids live in our county. That is roughly 10,000 to 15,000 total people to get your students from. The whole county is only 36,000 people. We have roughly 400 students period. Those are kids living around here. That is not near the talent pool that one would have if they could recruit from Ohio, Ind, all of Ky (including Caldwell Co) and God knows where else. There is no way you can honestly tell me or anyone else that this is not a distinct advantage. Before you make your comment, remember if you are from a Catholic School you are supposed to be a Christian and your God is listening, so now tell me that I am wrong.

What is in it for a kid to leave his friends in public school, which charges no tuition and provides free round-trip transportation, and attend a private school to play football?

It is wrong anytime and anywhere that public schools write a separate set of rules to gain a competitive edge on the football field. The only reasons that kids end up playing football in private schools are religious, political, or because the public schools in their neighborhood are perceived to be inferior to the private schools available to them.

Why are so many public schools and public school football programs perceived as being inferior to private schools? Because they are, that's why - and there is no good reason for their mediocrity. On average, public schools have far more money on a per-student basis, to educate students and fund athletic programs than private schools do. Yet, in many states, and in Kentucky's 6A class in particular, private schools eat the public schools' lunch in football almost every year.

Trinity and St. X do not have any unfair advantage over their public school rivals. They have, in fact, overcome obstacles to create products (academics and athletics) for which people are willing to pay rather than accept the free offerings of the public schools.

When you are giving away a product but people are saying, "No thanks," and buying a similar product instead, then it is time to look inward and figure out what you are doing wrong.

T and X could not compete with Indiana's best schools on a regular basis. Since Lawrence Central beat Trinity earlier this season, Lawrence Central has not won another game, losing five straight, four of which were to large, public Indianapolis schools in their own conference. In Trinity's best years, it would be among the contenders for a state 6A title in Indiana. In its worst years, it would struggle to avoid finishing last in its conference.

(The Evansville teams are rarely competitive with the big public schools in Indy. The last team to win the 5A state title that was not from Indianapolis was Penn, from South Bend, in 2001. Mater Dei is currently ranked #1 in 2A and Evansville Reitz is #10 in 4A. Indiana has moved to a 6 class system this season and the top 9 ranked teams are located in the metro Indianapolis area and the #10 team is from Fort Wayne.)

If Indiana public schools can routinely compete with Trinity and St. X, then why can't Kentucky's public schools do the same? That is the question that people who are advocating a separate set of rules for private school football teams should be asking themselves.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

It appears that FBfan4life and Hoot Gibson have presented the truth. Government schoolers need to quit whining and work on being competitive. Recruiting is in the eyes of the beholder. All do it. Some are better than others because they have a superior product to offer.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Now being domiciled in this area, I hasten to admit that, from what I have observed, I would say that Fort Thomas Highlands is a first class government school. Unlike most, it has superior football and superior academics. I have come to consider it as an anomaly in the government school system. Since it is continually accused of recruiting and of having an overall well to do student body, I think of it as a quasi-private school. Nonetheless, Fort Thomas illustrates what government schools can do if they actually work hard to do so.

[EKUAlum05]

I hate to be the guy in the grey area of the middle..but that's where I find myself.

To me the entire argument involves three things... talent pool, coaching, and commitment to excellence. I will try to tie a lot of this in with Hoot's excellent example of Indiana HS Football.

In regards to KY HS Football there is absolutely no doubt that X and T have a significant advantage as it stands now. The greatest talent pool by far in the state of Kentucky is Louisville Metro. There really isn't even a debate about that, as well there should not be, when you consider population and the amount of D-1 athletes fro Louisville as opposed to other areas. With this exponentially stronger talent pool T and X have free reign to pull from it however they see fit. We won't even touch the "r word" in reference to this, as it is not even necessary, parents simply will choose to send their kids to X and T because A) The academics are top notch B) The athletic programs are superior C) The Coaching Staffs are top notch D) The facilities are top notch E) The networking/connections in terms of college acceptance and carers are top notch F) From an athletic standpoint it highly increases the chance of exposure for recruiting.

Talent pool does have a key drawback though, and that it does have a finite point where speaking in terms of athletics, a team becomes too saturated and kids opt for other options that are as close to the best... but offer greater opportunity for playing time. In year's past Male and Manual used to benefit greatly from this as Male offered the best athletic equal to X and T and Manual offered the best academic similarity.

Where the pendulum swings is with coaching and commitment to excellence.. and the perception of those things in the talent pool. To me there is no surprise that over the past decade Trinity's program has evolved whereas St. X has regressed to the point other Louisville teams have closed the gap. Trinity had everything working and as a result the talent pool swung heavily their way, especially the past 5 or 6 years. As X weakened the coaching stability and perceived commitment to excellence were effected and as a result you have seen some of that talent pool dissipate to schools like Central and PRP... as well as now schools like DeSales, Male, and Manual. IN addition to this, I feel like Trinity's wave of success has in effect created a little bit of over-saturation and now parts of the talent pool is also filtering down to those other schools as well helping to tighten the gap.

Where Indiana Public Schools have made the jump is the fact they have a similar talent pool around Indianapolis to that of Louisville... but the Public Schools have consistently did a better job of establishing themselves via Coaching and their commitment. Compare Warren Central and Carmel to a Male, Manual, Ballard, etc... the academics may be similar.. but the facilities, the support of the program (and subsequent coaching salaries), and commitment to play top competition is on par much more with X and T. Now in Indianapolis the talent pool dissipates more evenly at the top.

Same principle applies to NKY when you compare the most dominant program Highlands vs. the private school CovCath. Why has the public school dominated the private? Because Highlands has the the coaching, the dominant program who plays on National Television, equal if not better academics, and a community who embraces everything about the program and push for the very best. Thus the NKY talent pool filters first to Ft. Thomas..then down to the schools like CovCath, Dixie Heights, NewCath, etc

Even EKY is an example of this to a lesser extent. Look at Belfry and Johnson Central the top two programs arguably over the past decade. Look how both programs have seen an influx of families relocating to their district at the feeder school level. JC has benefited from kids coming into their feeder system from Martin, Lawrence, and Floyd County. Belfry has had kids move in from WV. In both cases the parents made the decision so they could be in a better school system, have better coaching, have a better social environment, and generally have a better exposure to success for their child. The "r word" has nothing to do with it.. this is simply parents doing what is best for their kids. The problem with EKY and rural areas is that no matter how great the coaching, support, and commitment are... the talent pool simply isn't deep enough to support a true powerhouse rising.

I posted in another thread that the area that hurts KY' perception the most right now is Lexington. In Lexington the talent pool dissipates very evenly. The private schools (LCA and LexCath) have not been able to transcend. LexCath was making a move in that direction when Bob Sphire was there, but have since digressed. The public schools have settled into a bit of a mediocre complacency. It seems like every year the Lex teams are very similar and able to beat one another. If they were laying at a very high level this would be good..but when that level is medicore..well that is not good at all. I have no doubt that part of Scott County's rise has a lot to do with this factor as Scott county has grown into the best option for some families. I honestly think that if the right coach was brought into a school like a Dunbar.. and the culture changed to where the administration and community insisted on excellence... that a Lexington Public School could transcend quickly to elite status. Along with that I think you would see a hierarchy form as some school would buy in to try and compete.. while the schools to slow to adapt would suddenly become the bottom of the barrel as the talent pool would move from them.

So in conclusion.. the privates are playing with a stacked deck.. but why shouldn't they? They are simply using the spoils of their own success to their advantage. If Publics want to return to equal footing it is on them to bring in the right coaches and commit their programs and schools to excellence. If you build it..they will come. If you sit on the porch complaining and continue to wait in your own mediocrity then the gap will always remain.

[mysonis55]

Once again you danced around the question because you know it would be a sin to lie on here or anywhere. Therefore you cannot bring yourself to come right out and say that you don't recruit and that it is not a significant advantage. I don't have to offer anything because I asked the question and you can't answer it. My training tells me that when you answer a question with a question you are hiding something.

[Hoot Gibson]

Once again you danced around the question because you know it would be a sin to lie on here or anywhere. Therefore you cannot bring yourself to come right out and say that you don't recruit and that it is not a significant advantage. I don't have to offer anything because I asked the question and you can't answer it. My training tells me that when you answer a question with a question you are hiding something.

I am not sure who you are directing this comment to, but if it is directed to me, then your aim is poor. All of my children graduated from Johnson Central, a large public high school located in a not particularly affluent part of eastern Kentucky. I just get tired of all the whining by people wanting to saddle private schools with handicaps.

I am sorry that you choose not to answer my question about why any kid would want to leave a free public school with free transportation to play football for a private school. Recruiting is really not the problem that you think it is. Parents send their kids to private schools only when they are convinced that is what is best for their kids. Offer them a better free alternative, and they will almost always choose to save their money.

[FBfan4life]

I am not sure who you are directing this comment to, but if it directed to me, then your aim is poor. All of my children graduated from Johnson Central, a large public high school located in a not particularly affluent part of eastern Kentucky. I just get tired of all the whining by people wanting to saddle private schools with handicaps.

I am sorry that you choose not to answer my question about why any kid would want to leave a free public school with free transportation to play football for a private school. Recruiting is really not the problem that you think it is. Parents send their kids to private schools only when they are convinced that is what is best for their kids. Offer them a better free alternative, and they will almost always choose to save their money.

Sounds to me that you answed that question. And answered it well BTW.:notworthy

[EKUAlum05]

I am not sure who you are directing this comment to, but if it is directed to me, then your aim is poor. All of my children graduated from Johnson Central, a large public high school located in a not particularly affluent part of eastern Kentucky. I just get tired of all the whining by people wanting to saddle private schools with handicaps.

I am sorry that you choose not to answer my question about why any kid would want to leave a free public school with free transportation to play football for a private school. Recruiting is really not the problem that you think it is. Parents send their kids to private schools only when they are convinced that is what is best for their kids. Offer them a better free alternative, and they will almost always choose to save their money.

Nice response.

I have live din Louisville and know how the mindset of parents work. I won't say X and T are squeeky clean and haven't had a star athlete suddenly qualify for a "scholarship", but most people think their entire 2-deep is nothing more than a handpicked Jefferson County All-Star team and that is not the case at all.

For the animosity to KY privates and recruiting, people would be downright flabbergasted at how "big time" football state's do things and the shear volume of people relocating, moving, or transferring. I live right in the middle of Ground Zero for GA HS Football. Buford HS is a 2public/independent school in the middle of the Gwinnett County school district. Gwinnett County has a whopping 18 Public County High Schools (each and every single one being a 6A school).. of those 18 there have been 7 different schools ranked in the Top 100 teams in the country at some point over the past 5 years. Also in that time period Buford has consistently been a Top 100 team and has fluctuated between 1A, 2A, and now 3A. For the size of this school I am not sure another public High School has produced as many high level BCS prospects in a 10 year period. You can also bet that probably less than 30% of the players on the Buford Roster were born and raised within Buford City Limits.

My boss lives in Norcross, GA. His kids have been raised in private schools and his wife is currently commuting his oldest child 25 minutes to 35 minutes each day depending on traffic so he can attend Marist because it is such a prestigious school. Their commute in comparison to some families is minimal..some people commute all the way from Kennesaw and Flowery Branch and have up to an hour to 75 minute commute... to these families it is a small price to pay for the education and doors it opens both academically and athletically.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

Once again you danced around the question because you know it would be a sin to lie on here or anywhere. Therefore you cannot bring yourself to come right out and say that you don't recruit and that it is not a significant advantage. I don't have to offer anything because I asked the question and you can't answer it. My training tells me that when you answer a question with a question you are hiding something.

I would suggest that you are dancing a hasty retreat. Let's just say that, because of its athletic and academic tradition for excellence, Trinity doesn't have to recruit. Or, if you prefer, Trinity recruits far less than most successful government schools. I don't know for what government school your son, no. 55 (I don't guess he is 55 years old), plays. And, you sure haven't revealed your school. However, I will state that, if your government school is successful in athletics, it recruits. If it is not successful, it probably doesn't recruit. And, of course, recruiting is in the eyes of the partisan.

All in all, Trinity and St. Xavier don't need to recruit. And, to be even handed, neither does Fort Thomas. Because of academics and athletics and the exposure their students get in both areas, they don't need to recruit.

[Orange Blaze]

55 You confuse me because you are a Mayfield fan and unless something has changed, Mayfield is a public school and they have one of the richest football traditions in the state. I am just confused because it really doesn't seem like you have a dog in this fight at all.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

It is good to find out that mysonis55 is a Mayfield loyalist. Mayfield has a good little team.

[RunItUpTheGut]

So many people missing the point.
Its never been about public or private.

Its about this year and the statements that have been made since the beginning of the season that trinity and St. X arent as good as they usually are. Mysonis55 has brought up some stuff, but other than that, there has been noone who has said anything about public or privates. I dont care if they play in the same class or not. Doesnt bother me. There are no good privates in 5A football which I mostly follow.

Theres no denying the fact that if theres ever been a year that Trinity and St.X will lose, its theis year. Ive been saying it long before the season ever start and it still holds true. I still believe Bowling Green is better than both, and I think Highlands is better than St. X.'

That is all.

[tomcatfan722000]

My package is bigger than your package.

[Harry Rex Vonner]

My package is bigger than your package.

Is your package large enough to beat Johnson Central on your home field? Seriously, it would be good for high school football and the self esteem of the government schools for someone other than Trinity and St. Xavier to win Class 6A. And it would be good for someone other than Fort Thomas to win Class 4A. Such an outcome is possible this year in Class 6A but very remote in Class 4A.