[Hoot Gibson]

I like what ESPN is trying to do with that link, but I would like to tweak it to get a true representation of High Schools' Performance. Instead of judging the collegiate side based on how well the football universities in that state do and the players they produce to the pro's... I would rather see it based off the players from within the state that go to college and the to the pros.

For example WV is skewed because WVU and Marshall have very, very low amount of in-state players..and subsequently even fewer in-state guys who move on to the pro's. Meanwhile WV is rewarded for a guy like Geno Smith who played in Florida.

Kentucky obviously isn't tearing up the charts in this aspect..but the UL and UK roster have many more in-state guys and guys like Jacob Tamme, Brandon Deaderick, Yeremiah Bell. Michael Bush, Tim Masthay, Corey Peters, Alfonso Smith, and Larry Warford should give the state of Kentucky a bump over WV. In fact WV is getting credit for Keith Tandy who played his HS ball at Christian County, KY.

By comparison the KY college and pro ranking should be substantially higher than WV.

What I do like above the players above is where they played their ball in HS.
Boyle County
Etown
GRC
Male
Murray
Central
Waggener
Madison Central
Christian County

4 County Schools, 2 Independent Schools (non-metro), 3 Louisville Schools.. nice balance there

I think that the only criteria ESPN used for its pro rankings was the number of NFL Hall of Famers produced by each state. It looks like the criteria used for the college rankings is the number of D1 football programs in relation to the state's population. I would not put much stock in either ranking.

[big orange T]

I stand corrected. I guess all the years of watching EKY teams beat up on Western Virginia teams has mislead me.
I figured the suburbs outside of the DC metro area would be full of good teams, but i wouldnt imagine theyd be ranked that high.

You need to give a sample of at least the last 10-15 years on your EKY teams beating the crap out of SWVA teams. If you are going by this year, then you are really being mislead. I've followed SWVA football for many years and I don't remember too many of the EKY teams wanting to travel Route 23 or 460 to play the Lonesome Pine District teams, Highlands District, Southwest District or the Clinch Mtn. District in the mid 90's till about 2010. The Black Diamond District has done well against EKY schools but they have had more trouble with WV schools. The Cumberland District isn't really a football district they are more of a basketball district. Rye Cove is in the Cumberland and they are located in Scott County, RC is usually the only team in the CD to schedule any KY teams.

[EKUAlum05]

You need to give a sample of at least the last 10-15 years on your EKY teams beating the crap out of SWVA teams. If you are going by this year, then you are really being mislead. I've followed SWVA football for many years and I don't remember too many of the EKY teams wanting to travel Route 23 or 460 to play the Lonesome Pine District teams, Highlands District, Southwest District or the Clinch Mtn. District in the mid 90's till about 2010. The Black Diamond District has done well against EKY schools but they have had more trouble with WV schools. The Cumberland District isn't really a football district they are more of a basketball district. Rye Cove is in the Cumberland and they are located in Scott County, RC is usually the only team in the CD to schedule any KY teams.

In the past 5 years off the top of my head:

Middlebsoro defeated Union (who was ranked) handily last week 27-6

Shelby Valley (historically weak) defeated Grundy last week 50-26 and Hurley 42-14

East Ridge (histroically extremely weak) defeated Twin Valley (historically very weak) 36-12.

Hazard has defeated Clintwood (who were defending 1A champs one year and I think runner-ups the other) twice.. 23-17 last year and 32-7 in 201

Harlan County has defeated Gate City (48-7, 55-0) Lee County (42-0, 36-6, 40-14, 44-21) big a couple times, as well as Powell Valley (36-7, 35-0)

Belfry also scrimmaged Richlands this summer (widely considered the best team in SW Virginia annually) and George Wythe (defending 1A Champs) this off-season and were on a completely different level to the point Virginia people were talking about never seeing a team dominate Richlands like Belfry

To defend the VA teams... Harlan County is larger than any of those schools and Hazard was State Champs and Runner-Ups in 1A respectively.. and Belfry is on a completely different level to most EKY teams.

[Bob Seger]

The most talent-rich area in Virginia is known as the Tidewater region. Michael Vick and EJ Manuel are a couple of names that come to mind.

That is where Alan Iverson is from too. From what I understand he was almost as talented at football as he was basketball.

[Bob Seger]

The overall rating is a composite of pro, college, and high school ratings. The high school rankings are Kentucky #27 and West Virginia #35. Those seem to be in line with other rankings that I have seen, including D1 scholarship signings that take population into account. I don't think any organization that hires a slimeball like Keith Olbermann twice has much credibility, but many sports fans disagree. The ESPN list was just at the top of the Google hits in my search.

Gotcha Hoot, I didn't take the time to read that..Thanks for the correction.:Thumbs:

[FreightShaKer]

Who was the last person to come out of Kentucky and play professional football?

[EKUAlum05]

Who was the last person to come out of Kentucky and play professional football?

David Jones had a cup of tea with the Ravens.

I am sure Jeremy Caudill saw a little bit of Training Camp with an NFL team as well.

[big orange T]

In the past 5 years off the top of my head:

Middlebsoro defeated Union (who was ranked) handily last week 27-6

Shelby Valley (historically weak) defeated Grundy last week 50-26 and Hurley 42-14

East Ridge (histroically extremely weak) defeated Twin Valley (historically very weak) 36-12.

Hazard has defeated Clintwood (who were defending 1A champs one year and I think runner-ups the other) twice.. 23-17 last year and 32-7 in 201

Harlan County has defeated Gate City (48-7, 55-0) Lee County (42-0, 36-6, 40-14, 44-21) big a couple times, as well as Powell Valley (36-7, 35-0)

Belfry also scrimmaged Richlands this summer (widely considered the best team in SW Virginia annually) and George Wythe (defending 1A Champs) this off-season and were on a completely different level to the point Virginia people were talking about never seeing a team dominate Richlands like Belfry

To defend the VA teams... Harlan County is larger than any of those schools and Hazard was State Champs and Runner-Ups in 1A respectively.. and Belfry is on a completely different level to most EKY teams.

You gave me 1-5 years. I wanted you to give me a history of the last 10-15 years. You know why you didn't, because there isn't any. The teams in SWVA during the 90's up until about mid 2000's were putting out some dang good teams. It didn't seem that too many EKY teams wanted to play SWVA teams. You had plenty of D1 talent and NFL talent (Jones Bros, H. Miller, J. Hamilton, A. Bradshaw) just to name a few and SWVA football was better than EKY football. EKY football might be better than SWVA football right now in 2013 but I think as a whole, VA football is better than KY football.

Where was Union ranked? Preseason maybe but not AP ranked as of 10/4/13 but Union is a decent team. Middlesboro was ranked #6

Shelby Valley beat Grundy (503 kids) & Hurley (190 kids). Shelby Valley should beat Hurley when you have 190 kids in grades 9th-12th. compared to SV's 580 to 600 kids. Grundy has been weak for several years with only 1 winning season in the last 8-10 years.

If East Ridge with 650 kids couldn't beat Twin Valley with 225 kids and only 30 victories in the last 11-12 years then I would take up the pads after the game.

The Hazard/ Clintwood game is the best game of the ones you mentioned. Both teams at the top of their game in their classification. Hazard was the better team both years. PERIOD

Harlan County,not much argument here, they are better than Gate City, Lee High (never been much in the 1st place) and Powell Valley towards the end before they consolidated with Appalachia.

Belfry is on another level and they did kick the crack out of Richlands. I think if they had played Richlands in 2011 and 2012 when they had 2 D1 recruits and 3 more signed to play college football, it would have been different.

I was thinking that the George Wythe/Belfry game was 2-2 in the scrimmage. I went and watched Belfry play GW, Marion and Richlands but I don't think Belfry beat GW, I think they tied.

So for the tally, 3 of the EKY teams(Belfry, Harlan, Co., Hazard) are really good and I really respect their program. The other 3 (Shelby Valley, East Ridge, Middlesboro), I still respect their program but I wouldn't thump my chest to much on their victories.

Just for the record, I do support and follow any Mtn. teams from Eastern Kentucky when they make the playoffs. I'm just glad that EKY and SWVA can field teams to discuss because it seems like kids are more interested in Xbox and playstation 3 & 4. Times are really different.

[RunItUpTheGut]

In the past 5 years off the top of my head:

Middlebsoro defeated Union (who was ranked) handily last week 27-6

Shelby Valley (historically weak) defeated Grundy last week 50-26 and Hurley 42-14

East Ridge (histroically extremely weak) defeated Twin Valley (historically very weak) 36-12.

Hazard has defeated Clintwood (who were defending 1A champs one year and I think runner-ups the other) twice.. 23-17 last year and 32-7 in 201

Harlan County has defeated Gate City (48-7, 55-0) Lee County (42-0, 36-6, 40-14, 44-21) big a couple times, as well as Powell Valley (36-7, 35-0)

Belfry also scrimmaged Richlands this summer (widely considered the best team in SW Virginia annually) and George Wythe (defending 1A Champs) this off-season and were on a completely different level to the point Virginia people were talking about never seeing a team dominate Richlands like Belfry

To defend the VA teams... Harlan County is larger than any of those schools and Hazard was State Champs and Runner-Ups in 1A respectively.. and Belfry is on a completely different level to most EKY teams.

Thank you kind sir. Not only did you save me the effort, you proved my point.

:notbad:

[RunItUpTheGut]

You gave me 1-5 years. I wanted you to give me a history of the last 10-15 years. You know why you didn't, because there isn't any. The teams in SWVA during the 90's up until about mid 2000's were putting out some dang good teams. It didn't seem that too many EKY teams wanted to play SWVA teams. You had plenty of D1 talent and NFL talent (Jones Bros, H. Miller, J. Hamilton, A. Bradshaw) just to name a few and SWVA football was better than EKY football. EKY football might be better than SWVA football right now in 2013 but I think as a whole, VA football is better than KY football.

Where was Union ranked? Preseason maybe but not AP ranked as of 10/4/13 but Union is a decent team. Middlesboro was ranked #6

Shelby Valley beat Grundy (503 kids) & Hurley (190 kids). Shelby Valley should beat Hurley when you have 190 kids in grades 9th-12th. compared to SV's 580 to 600 kids. Grundy has been weak for several years with only 1 winning season in the last 8-10 years.

If East Ridge with 650 kids couldn't beat Twin Valley with 225 kids and only 30 victories in the last 11-12 years then I would take up the pads after the game.

The Hazard/ Clintwood game is the best game of the ones you mentioned. Both teams at the top of their game in their classification. Hazard was the better team both years. PERIOD

Harlan County,not much argument here, they are better than Gate City, Lee High (never been much in the 1st place) and Powell Valley towards the end before they consolidated with Appalachia.

Belfry is on another level and they did kick the crack out of Richlands. I think if they had played Richlands in 2011 and 2012 when they had 2 D1 recruits and 3 more signed to play college football, it would have been different.

I was thinking that the George Wythe/Belfry game was 2-2 in the scrimmage. I went and watched Belfry play GW, Marion and Richlands but I don't think Belfry beat GW, I think they tied.

So for the tally, 3 of the EKY teams(Belfry, Harlan, Co., Hazard) are really good and I really respect their program. The other 3 (Shelby Valley, East Ridge, Middlesboro), I still respect their program but I wouldn't thump my chest to much on their victories.

Just for the record, I do support and follow any Mtn. teams from Eastern Kentucky when they make the playoffs. I'm just glad that EKY and SWVA can field teams to discuss because it seems like kids are more interested in Xbox and playstation 3 & 4. Times are really different.

Not saying your wrong, but lets be honest, can SWVA's top 10 teams even come close to EKY's top 10 teams on a regular basis?

[big orange T]

Not saying your wrong, but lets be honest, can SWVA's top 10 teams even come close to EKY's top 10 teams on a regular basis?

Just Depends. I don't know what counties are considered EKY. I know you got Pike, Floyd, Letcher, Harlan, Perry, Knott, Bell, Martin and what else do you consider EKY?

SWVA consist of the coal producing counties of Buchanan, Dickenson, Wise, Tazewell, Russell and Lee Counties. The non coal producing counties of SWVA are Scott, Bland, Giles, Pulaski, Carroll, Grayson, Smyth, Washington, Franklin, and Wythe Counties.

We have better teams in the farm country of SWVA than in the coal producing counties this year. So, if we go by coal counties only then EKY is better than SWVA. If we go by both the coal and farming counties then SWVA is better than EKY from top to bottom.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Just Depends. I don't know what counties are considered EKY. I know you got Pike, Floyd, Letcher, Harlan, Perry, Knott, Bell, Martin and what else do you consider EKY?

SWVA consist of the coal producing counties of Buchanan, Dickenson, Wise, Tazewell, Russell and Lee Counties. The non coal producing counties of SWVA are Scott, Bland, Giles, Pulaski, Carroll, Grayson, Smyth, Washington, Franklin, and Wythe Counties.

We have better teams in the farm country of SWVA than in the coal producing counties this year. So, if we go by coal counties only then EKY is better than SWVA. If we go by both the coal and farming counties then SWVA is better than EKY from top to bottom.

I see your logic.
I think most fans on this sight consider EKY to be anything East of I-75, including the 3 Pulaski County teams, and south of I-64. It is quite a bit bigger than your intended interpretation, and I can see what you were thinking. I dont really think you were considering the same amount of KY teams as i was.

[FormerJacket72]

The tidewater or Hampton roads area is so rich in talent because of the military bases and the overall population. Census shows that area is top 15 metropolitan areas in the US.

[KCCFootball]

Just Depends. I don't know what counties are considered EKY. I know you got Pike, Floyd, Letcher, Harlan, Perry, Knott, Bell, Martin and what else do you consider EKY?

SWVA consist of the coal producing counties of Buchanan, Dickenson, Wise, Tazewell, Russell and Lee Counties. The non coal producing counties of SWVA are Scott, Bland, Giles, Pulaski, Carroll, Grayson, Smyth, Washington, Franklin, and Wythe Counties.

We have better teams in the farm country of SWVA than in the coal producing counties this year. So, if we go by coal counties only then EKY is better than SWVA. If we go by both the coal and farming counties then SWVA is better than EKY from top to bottom.

8 ky counties. vs 16 va counties i would hope virginia would win.

[EKUAlum05]

You gave me 1-5 years. I wanted you to give me a history of the last 10-15 years. You know why you didn't, because there isn't any. The teams in SWVA during the 90's up until about mid 2000's were putting out some dang good teams. It didn't seem that too many EKY teams wanted to play SWVA teams. You had plenty of D1 talent and NFL talent (Jones Bros, H. Miller, J. Hamilton, A. Bradshaw) just to name a few and SWVA football was better than EKY football. EKY football might be better than SWVA football right now in 2013 but I think as a whole, VA football is better than KY football.

Where was Union ranked? Preseason maybe but not AP ranked as of 10/4/13 but Union is a decent team. Middlesboro was ranked #6

Shelby Valley beat Grundy (503 kids) & Hurley (190 kids). Shelby Valley should beat Hurley when you have 190 kids in grades 9th-12th. compared to SV's 580 to 600 kids. Grundy has been weak for several years with only 1 winning season in the last 8-10 years.

If East Ridge with 650 kids couldn't beat Twin Valley with 225 kids and only 30 victories in the last 11-12 years then I would take up the pads after the game.

The Hazard/ Clintwood game is the best game of the ones you mentioned. Both teams at the top of their game in their classification. Hazard was the better team both years. PERIOD

Harlan County,not much argument here, they are better than Gate City, Lee High (never been much in the 1st place) and Powell Valley towards the end before they consolidated with Appalachia.

Belfry is on another level and they did kick the crack out of Richlands. I think if they had played Richlands in 2011 and 2012 when they had 2 D1 recruits and 3 more signed to play college football, it would have been different.

I was thinking that the George Wythe/Belfry game was 2-2 in the scrimmage. I went and watched Belfry play GW, Marion and Richlands but I don't think Belfry beat GW, I think they tied.

So for the tally, 3 of the EKY teams(Belfry, Harlan, Co., Hazard) are really good and I really respect their program. The other 3 (Shelby Valley, East Ridge, Middlesboro), I still respect their program but I wouldn't thump my chest to much on their victories.

Just for the record, I do support and follow any Mtn. teams from Eastern Kentucky when they make the playoffs. I'm just glad that EKY and SWVA can field teams to discuss because it seems like kids are more interested in Xbox and playstation 3 & 4. Times are really different.

As I said I was just going off the top of my head... I can barely remember where I put my cell phone..let alone the last 15 years of KY vs. VA games

First to acknowledge a couple things you said:
Belfry outscored GW's varsity 5-0 and basically scored at will. Wythe was like a Pikeville team from the past 5 or 6 years from everything I heard. Nice athletes, but just not very strong up front. Belfry tied Marion 2-2 on a couple deep passes, but everyone at the scrimmage agreed Belfry was basically toying with them.

As for the 2011/2012 Richlands teams... the Belfry team you saw scrimmage had 6 Freshmen playing in their first varsity action where they were hitting someone new. 2011 Belfry was very good... 2012 Belfry was scary good. Richlands probably would have been a bit more competitive..but Belfry has been very strong the past few years and this year was actually supposed to be the question mark year. As good as Belfry's defense looked in that scrimmage, the 2012 defense was next level.

I absolutely loved that scrimmage for Belfry BTW. I hope it becomes a regular thing as it was good competition and diverse offense that I felt helped get them ready for the start of the season better than the standard format and teams (Boyd County) that Belfry usually scrimmages in their place.

Now for some real talk. The difference between SW VA and EKY IMHO is hard to measure actually. The main reason being that the majority of SW VA teams are 1A or 2A size teams, specifically the best teams like Clintwood, Honaker, Richlands, George Wythe, Carroll County, etc. EKY's has numerous schools that are much larger like Johnson Central, Harlan County, Knox Central, Pulaski County and other flagship programs which are slightly bigger like Belfry, Breathitt Co, and Bell County.

If you took the Top 10 SWVA teams vs the Top 10 KY teams matching them u so #1 vs #1, #2 vs. 2, #10 vs. #10 and so forth it would be lopsided,,,, but considering enrollment it should be. These teams cant be ignored as they are the best of the best and obviously factor into the equation..but in terms of head to head comparisons it is more fair to match up the EKY 1A/2A teams vs. the SWVA 1A/2A teams conceding the aforementioned point.

You now compare programs like:
Prestonsburg vs. Richlands (who I personally think are almost identical twins)
Clintwood vs. Hazard
Pikeville vs. George Wythe
Williamsburg vs. Honaker
Somerset vs. Carroll County
Corbin vs. Union
Middlesboro vs. Gate City

Now the gap closes and you have a very competitive matchup that I see as ever so slightly leaning in favor of KY over the past decade. (A side note..I see several games I would love seeing become a regular series).

Pound for Pound comparing the two areas it is fairly even...but.. consideration has to be made when arguably 7 or the Top 10 EKY teams arent even included, including the three or four programs who have been next level amongst the group for the past decade.

[big orange T]

I did the research on KHSAA and here are the totals for W-L in head to head match-ups between KY vs. VA.

I did the years 2003-2013
VA 52 wins
KY 48 wins

The only teams that KY played were from Buchanan, Dickenson, Wise, Scott and Lee County. Lee High has given KY a majority of it's 48 wins over 10 years.

So it's closer than everyone realizes....even myself.

[EKUAlum05]

I did the research on KHSAA and here are the totals for W-L in head to head match-ups between KY vs. VA.

I did the years 2003-2013
VA 52 wins
KY 48 wins

The only teams that KY played were from Buchanan, Dickenson, Wise, Scott and Lee County. Lee High has given KY a majority of it's 48 wins over 10 years.

So it's closer than everyone realizes....even myself.

HAHA Thanks for doing that... it is an interesting number for sure


Who would you consider the Top 10 programs in SW VA out of curiosity.. how far was I off on the teams I listed above and who did I forget?

[KCCFootball]

I think I might do some research myself. not that i dont believe you just wanting to see pre 2003. and who is the top 10 in order in swva?

[PocoLegend]

Also the jones brothers

[PocoLegend]

Kieth Tandy From Christian Co was drafted in 2012 to the bucs

[RunItUpTheGut]

I have a feeling bigorangeT doesnt understand how big of an aread we are talking about.
I KNOW I can pick ten programs out of EKY that could beat the top ten SWVA schools on a regular basis. If anything, I would say most years, KY wins 7 of the 10.

[Do-double-gg]

I agree with the part about parents wanting to send their children to schools such as Trinity, St. Xavier, Highlands, Beechwood etc. Don't need to discuss all of their accomplishments as it's well documented, who wouldn't want to pick a winner, right? Living in eastern Kentucky I wish an assistant off of said schools would take a chance and coach in our neck of the woods, bringing a winning mentality and culture too. Maybe restore some balance.

I don't think a coach from teams like Trinity, Central, Bowling Green or Highlands could come to Eastern Kentucky and have as much sucess and I think they know it and that is why they don't do it. I think we have right now and in the past coaches in eastern Kentucky who could go to those places and do just as good. People like Haywood from Belfry, Hilton from Bell Co and Matney from Johnson Central come to mind right now. Some people probably don't know this but in 1997 the Bourbon County team that won a championship was coached by Dudley Hilton from Bell Co. He left Bell for a year or so and in his 1st season at Bourbon with a new team and the kids with a new coach and new system won a state championship the 1st year. I think that is a good guage of what some of the Eastern Kentucky coaches could do if they had the population and talent level that some of the teams out north and west enjoy. This is just my opinion.