[Panther Thunder]

Maybe this could help solve which program is the best all time team. We could use a scoring system. Head to head wins are worth 3 points. State championships are worth 6 points. State championship but a loss in the game is worth 5 points. State semi final appearance is worth 4 points. Regional final appearance is worth 3 points. Second round playoff appearance isworth 2 points and first round elimination is worth 1 point. If a team didn't make the playoffs that year then they don't receive a point. If anyone can gather these facts then I think we could prove the better program.

I like the formula sysytem in theory. Would have to see it play out. Pikeville's record in the semi-finals of 6-14 is a big stumbling block. Thank you, Beechwood haha.

Pikeville vs. Beechwood history:

-1972 Pikeville 24 Beechwood 8
-1984 Beechwood 29 Pikeville 21 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1987 Game Suspended at half of Pike County Bowl (BHS led 21-20, Only regular season meeting)
-*1987 Pikeville 52 Beechwood 28 (Pikeville State Champion)
-1988 Pikeville 34 Beechwood 7 (Pikeville State Champion)
-1989 Pikeville 49 Beechwood 20 (Pikeville State Champion)
-*1991 Beechwood 34 Pikeville 6 (State Championship, Beechwood State Champion)
-1992 Beechwood 34 Pikeville 0 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1993 Beechwood 38 Pikeville 13 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1994 Beechwood 23 Pikeville 17 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1995 Beechwood 42 Pikeville 15
-1996 Beechwood 38 Pikeville 0 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1999 Beechwood 25 Pikeville 19 (Beechwood State Champion)
-2004 Beechwood 40 Pikeville 7 (Beechwood State Champion)

8 seasons ended by a State Champion Tiger team. In 8 of Beechwood's 11 State Title runs, they have defeated the Panthers.


Pikeville/Belfry history with a lot missing:

1949
1956 Pikeville 0 Belfry 0 (Tie)
1978 Pikeville 26 Belfry 12
1979 Belfry 16 Pikeville 6
1980 Pikeville 13 Belfry 8
1981 Pikeville 20 Belfry 8
1982
1983
1984 Belfry 20 Pikeville 0
1985
1986
1987 Pikeville 39 Belfry 14 (Pikeville Class A State Champion)
1988 Pikeville 26 Belfry 14 (Pikeville Class A State Champion)
1989 Belfry 33 Pikeville 24 (Pikeville Class A State Champion)
1990 Belfry 21 Pikeville 14
1991 Pikeville 41 Belfry 7
1992 Belfry 34 Pikeville (?, Fill in tmrw)
1993 Belfry 26 Pikeville 6
1994 Pikeville 36 Belfry 18 (or Pikeville 42 Belfry 27?)
1995 Belfry 7 Pikeville 6
1996 Belfry 26 Pikeville 0 (Overtime)
1997 Belfry 42 Pikeville 7
1998 Pikeville 35 Belfry 19
1999 Pikeville 28 Belfry 6
2000 Pikeville 31 Belfry 14
2001 Belfry 21 Pikeville 0
2002 Belfry 20 Pikeville 13
2003 Belfry 28 Pikeville 6 (Belfry AAA State Champion)
2004 Belfry 30 Pikeville 0 (Belfry AAA State Champion)
2005 Belfry 36 Pikeville 13
2006 Belfry 24 Pikeville 20
2007 Belfry 49 Pikeville 7
2008 Belfry 48 Pikeville 7
2009 Belfry 54 Pikeville 20
2010 Belfry 55 Pikeville 24
2011 Belfry 55 Pikeville 14
2012 Belfry 48 Pikeville 0

found an article from before 2007's game by Rick Bentley:

"There are some numbers in this series that always amaze me. The rivalry is considered a close one, and always has been. Tonight the teams will play for the 47th time since the first meeting in the autumn of 1949 (contrary to popular opinion, I did not cover that initial meeting; The '53 game was my first). Belfry has won 25 times, Pikeville 18, and three were ties.

Of those sister-kissings - which cannot happen anymore, by the way, thanks to overtime - the most interesting one took place in 1956. The score? Trick question! There was no score. By the way, if anybody has a film of that game, I'd love to see it. Seriously.

In that time, Belfry has outscored Pikeville by the still somewhat-close margin of 843-668. That means the average is 18.33 to 14.52, or just more than a field goal.

Philip Haywood has really put his stamp on this series. The legendary Belfry coach is 16-7 since taking over on Pond Creek and has an overall record of 18-13 against the Panthers."

Putting those numbers, adding in games since '07:

-Belfry leads the series 31-18-3 (It was 19-18-3 at one point lol)
-Haywood is 22-7 versus Pikeville (at Belfry)
-Chris McNamee is 2-7 versus Belfry (at Pikeville)
-Overall Score: Belfry 1,152 Pikeville 740
-The Two schools have played 52 times

[EKUAlum05]

Great, great job PT

[jetpilot]

Pikeville's record in the semifinals has no bearing on if their program is better than Belfry's. None whatsoever. If Belfry had to play Highlands as many years as Pikeville had to play Beechwood their record would have been worse. There is NO formula that will provide a mathematical answer to which program is better.

Oh, except this one:
:1::1::1:>:1::1:


hh:

[EKUAlum05]

Great, great job PT

That great Beechwood stat you gave makes me wonder... how many times have these teams had their season end to the eventual State Champion at the Regional Final level or beyond?

[EKUAlum05]

Pikeville's record in the semifinals has no bearing on if their program is better than Belfry's. None whatsoever. If Belfry had to play Highlands as many years as Pikeville had to play Beechwood their record would have been worse. There is NO formula that will provide a mathematical answer to which program is better.

Oh, except this one:
:1::1::1:>:1::1:


hh:

...annnnnnnnnnndddddddddddd..........

If Belfry didn't have to play Lou. Central they would have 6 State Championships... seeing as though Belfry played Central in the Finals... you know..since there would still be ANOTHER hypothetical game Pikeville still had to win in your scenario.

Another side note looking at that timeline... that 1999 loss to Beechwood bothers me. That was a really, really good Pikeville team and they deserved to win that game. Wasn't that some sort of last minute defeat? I genuinely enjoyed watching that Pikeville team play that season.

[jetpilot]

Belfry is better because they have been playing at an elite level within their respective class for a more consistent AND longer period of time.

Period.

LOL.
Depends on what your definition of "elite" is.

BTW, when was Belfry's first runner-up team?

[jetpilot]

...annnnnnnnnnndddddddddddd..........

If Belfry didn't have to play Lou. Central they would have 6 State Championships... seeing as though Belfry played Central in the Finals... you know..since there would still be ANOTHER hypothetical game Pikeville still had to win in your scenario.

Another side note looking at that timeline... that 1999 loss to Beechwood bothers me. That was a really, really good Pikeville team and they deserved to win that game. Wasn't that some sort of last minute defeat? I genuinely enjoyed watching that Pikeville team play that season.

Watered down 6-class system. What were there, 2 1/2 decent teams in 3A? See how many arguments there are?
Only one with no argument is 3>2.

Don't want to go there on the 1999 Beechwood. It was more painful than all losses to Belfry combined. And yes I am serious.

[Panther Thunder]

That great Beechwood stat you gave makes me wonder... how many times have these teams had their season end to the eventual State Champion at the Regional Final level or beyond?

I think it is say to say, if Beechwood is in the west in the old format, as they are now, PHS has at least 3-4 more Runner-ups, possibly more.

In Regional Championship seasons, Pikeville's season has been ended by a State Champion in:

-1972 Trigg County (State Title)
-1979 Fort Campbell? I think this is Pikeville's AA year (State Title)
-1984 Beechwood
-1991 Beechwood (State Title)
-1992 Beechwood
-1993 Beechwood
-1994 Beechwood
-1996 Beechwood
-1998 Middlesboro
-1999 Beechwood
-2004 Beechwood
-2011 Hazard

I need to check on 1977, 1980, and 1981. That is 9 of 14 Semi-Final losses to State Champs. Still need to check those other 3 years.

Also need to check on the years in which PHS was a Regional Runner-up which could take a while, but I don't think a team from PHS' Region has won a State Title, to my knowledge.

[Panther Thunder]

If you want to push a Pikeville fan to suicide, just keep bringing up '99 Beechwood.

[EKUAlum05]

Watered down 6-class system. What were there, 2 1/2 decent teams in 3A? See how many arguments there are?
Only one with no argument is 3>2.

Don't want to go there on the 1999 Beechwood. It was more painful than all losses to Belfry combined. And yes I am serious.

Watered down 6 class system vs. watered down Eastern 1A.. for decades Pikeville's only competition to reach the Semi-State was Paintsville and Hazard... at least Belfry has had to get through Breathitt County, Russell, and Somerset while in the new 3A.

Also 31-18-3 still has no argument as well.

This all just reinforces what my initial point was...before the past decade the programs have been very similar with the exception of Pikeville's 3-peat title run that clearly made them the best program, but you can't ignore a decade of utter dominance on every level when it is 20% of the entire timeline of the series.. and what belfry has done in their dominant run has swung the pendulum back to their favor as the best program.

[Leonidas]

What's the story on the '99 game with Beechwood?

For some reason I don't remember how it played out.

[jetpilot]

Watered down 6 class system vs. watered down Eastern 1A.. for decades Pikeville's only competition to reach the Semi-State was Paintsville and Hazard... at least Belfry has had to get through Breathitt County, Russell, and Somerset while in the new 3A.

Also 31-18-3 still has no argument as well.

That's really all you have, beating a Class A school. So get in line behind Scott Co., PRP, Ballard, Henry Clay, and tons of other bigger schools who would wax Belfry.

[EKUAlum05]

What's the story on the '99 game with Beechwood?

For some reason I don't remember how it played out.

I would like to hear the details again as well. I just remember Barrett Rogers being injured and not being expected to play..but he ended up playing (with a different number if I recall) and playing his heart out. Then there was something to do with a HB Pass that I believe was the difference in the game in the final minute when it looked as if Pikeville was Louisville bound.

[jetpilot]

What's the story on the '99 game with Beechwood?

For some reason I don't remember how it played out.

Pikeville up by 2 scores at Beechwood with only a few minutes left. Most of the Beechwood fans already gone home. My mind has blocked out the rest.
Beechwood wins title game the next week by about 40.

[Panther Thunder]

This all just reinforces what my initial point was...before the past decade the programs have been very similar with the exception of Pikeville's 3-peat title run that clearly made them the best program, but you can't ignore a decade of utter dominance on every level when it is 20% of the entire timeline of the series.. and what belfry has done in their dominant run has swung the pendulum back to their favor as the best program.

This is why I agree with you, but like to state that it is not like Pikeville cannot get the title of better program back with another good run. I give it to Belfry, but I don't think it is some huge margin, I think it relatively close, but BHS has it by a distinct bit.

[EKUAlum05]

That's really all you have, beating a Class A school. So get in line behind Scott Co., PRP, Ballard, Henry Clay, and tons of other bigger schools who would wax Belfry.

Mayfield and Beechwood don't make excuses and beat larger schools all the time... you know.. the cream of the small school crop. Belfry will show you if ya want..seeing as how they just gave Harlan County a lesson a couple weeks ago and have been able to consistently beat bigger schools for years.

[EKUAlum05]

This is why I agree with you, but like to state that it is not like Pikeville cannot get the title of better program back with another good run. I give it to Belfry, but I don't think it is some huge margin, I think it relatively close, but BHS has it by a distinct bit.

Yup... which is why I have been such a proponent of keeping the rivalry alive. For 80% of the series it has been as close as you can imagine..unfortunately for Pikeville a couple of bonehead coaching moves left their program rebuilding just as the Belfry program was elevating.

With stability Pikeville will be back, and I think we are seeing that, and when they are back at the very LEAST they are a financially and logistically a much more viable option than playing a mediocre "bigger" school.

Obviously Coach McNamee is the main reason Pikeville is returning to form.. but you also have to think Belfry's success has played a part as well. Pikeville is elevating their program and has the blueprint for where the standard is..coupled with unbelievable competition at the Feeder Level being provided.

[Panther Thunder]

What's the story on the '99 game with Beechwood?

For some reason I don't remember how it played out.

Beechwood converted some absolutely ignorantly lucky first downs on long yardage on balls that looked like a duck falling out of the sky, they hung there for an eternity, you are just screaming that ball has to be picked, but it was one of those things. It was almost so bad, the offense had the advantage.

I will have to watch the film again, if I can make myself to go into much more detail, but the aid of a PHS senior making two inexcusable personal fouls to help Beechwood walk down the field didn't help.

Link to a good article from the Cincinnati paper:

http://enquirer.com/editions/1999/11/27/...od_25.html

Over the last 6:37 of the game, Beechwood turned mistakes into magic. That's how much time remained when Pikeville (12-2) took a 19-10 lead on Jarrod Frasure's 1-yard touchdown plunge.
With 4:03 left, Beechwood junior quarterback Mike Nie flipped a four-yard shovel pass to senior Josh Kaiser to cut the lead to 19-17. Nie earlier scored from three yards out with 7:19 left in the third quarter to give Beechwood a 10-6 lead.
Pikeville went three-and-out on the ensuing drive, and Beechwood got the ball on its own 41 with three minutes left.
Then came more magic tricks — Nie hit senior Max Mann for 22 yards and again for 26 to put the ball at the Pikeville 11.

[jetpilot]

Mayfield and Beechwood don't make excuses and beat larger schools all the time... you know.. the cream of the small school crop. Belfry will show you if ya want..seeing as how they just gave Harlan County a lesson a couple weeks ago and have been able to consistently beat bigger schools for years.

But only ruled their own class twice. I would try to explain what having :1::1::1: is but you just wouldn't understand.:biggrin:

Pikeville has beaten schools bigger than it many many more times than Belfry. My point is that you think Belfry's program is better just because of recent head-to-head wins...i.e. Belfry's ability to beat a much smaller school. Doesn't work.

[skully03]

Man, just number of state title can't define a program it's more than that. You have to factor in head to head no matter if it is 3a vs 1a. Scores were posted earlier where Pikeville had beaten belfry before so your argument is void!!!

[Leonidas]

But only ruled their own class twice. I would try to explain what having :1::1::1: is but you just wouldn't understand.:biggrin:

Pikeville has beaten schools bigger than it many many more times than Belfry. My point is that you think Belfry's program is better just because of recent head-to-head wins...i.e. Belfry's ability to beat a much smaller school. Doesn't work.

You've said time and time again that Pikeville is the better "school" 364 days out of the year, just not on those magical Friday nights.

Sounds a lot like you are alluding to Belfry being the superior football program when you say that, yet you don't even realize it.:Thumbs:

[EKUAlum05]

But only ruled their own class twice. I would try to explain what having :1::1::1: is but you just wouldn't understand.:biggrin:

Pikeville has beaten schools bigger than it many many more times than Belfry. My point is that you think Belfry's program is better just because of recent head-to-head wins...i.e. Belfry's ability to beat a much smaller school. Doesn't work.

Of course Pikeville beats larger schools...when you are the smallest classification you can't play down

I never said anything about recent head to head wins... I spoke about a decade of dominance. If you havent noticed Belfry has been the best program in EKY regardless of class for essentially the entire decade. 9 Semi_Finals in 10 years, 6 Finals in 10 years, and 2 Titles. Pikeville isn't even a factor into Belfry's domination as a program in general over the time period I eluded to.

[Panther Thunder]

Yup... which is why I have been such a proponent of keeping the rivalry alive. For 80% of the series it has been as close as you can imagine..unfortunately for Pikeville a couple of bonehead coaching moves left their program rebuilding just as the Belfry program was elevating.

With stability Pikeville will be back, and I think we are seeing that, and when they are back at the very LEAST they are a financially and logistically a much more viable option than playing a mediocre "bigger" school.

Obviously Coach McNamee is the main reason Pikeville is returning to form.. but you also have to think Belfry's success has played a part as well. Pikeville is elevating their program and has the blueprint for where the standard is..coupled with unbelievable competition at the Feeder Level being provided.

This week and thread have been great. And after it, I want anyone who wants to give the rivalry up to take a jump off Pikeville Medical Center head first.

Pikeville and Belfry, around 2007 starting SCREAMING in the opposite directions. Pikeville bottomed out in 2009 and has been climbing back, showing improvement every year since. Even though 2012 was worse than 2011, it showed the program was strong enough to endure a rebuilding year, rather than having it drag them down.

Pikeville has a great group of 6th graders coming up, IMO with good numbers in the program at the feeder level. Hopefully, we can find the best way to maintain these numbers while remaining competitive at those levels. Numbers are a huge advantage in Class A and Coach Mac has them back up to a respectable level. I would love to see AT LEAST 40-45 per season, ideally 50, dream 55-60.

[HAIL PIKEVILLE!]

I like the formula sysytem in theory. Would have to see it play out. Pikeville's record in the semi-finals of 6-14 is a big stumbling block. Thank you, Beechwood haha.

Pikeville vs. Beechwood history:

-1972 Pikeville 24 Beechwood 8
-1984 Beechwood 29 Pikeville 21 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1987 Game Suspended at half of Pike County Bowl (BHS led 21-20, Only regular season meeting)
-*1987 Pikeville 52 Beechwood 28 (Pikeville State Champion)
-1988 Pikeville 34 Beechwood 7 (Pikeville State Champion)
-1989 Pikeville 49 Beechwood 20 (Pikeville State Champion)
-*1991 Beechwood 34 Pikeville 6 (State Championship, Beechwood State Champion)
-1992 Beechwood 34 Pikeville 0 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1993 Beechwood 38 Pikeville 13 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1994 Beechwood 23 Pikeville 17 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1995 Beechwood 42 Pikeville 15
-1996 Beechwood 38 Pikeville 0 (Beechwood State Champion)
-1999 Beechwood 25 Pikeville 19 (Beechwood State Champion)
-2004 Beechwood 40 Pikeville 7 (Beechwood State Champion)

8 seasons ended by a State Champion Tiger team. In 8 of Beechwood's 11 State Title runs, they have defeated the Panthers.


Pikeville/Belfry history with a lot missing:

1949
1956 Pikeville 0 Belfry 0 (Tie)
1978 Pikeville 26 Belfry 12
1979 Belfry 16 Pikeville 6
1980 Pikeville 13 Belfry 8
1981 Pikeville 20 Belfry 8
1982
1983
1984 Belfry 20 Pikeville 0
1985
1986
1987 Pikeville 39 Belfry 14 (Pikeville Class A State Champion)
1988 Pikeville 26 Belfry 14 (Pikeville Class A State Champion)
1989 Belfry 33 Pikeville 24 (Pikeville Class A State Champion)
1990 Belfry 21 Pikeville 14
1991 Pikeville 41 Belfry 7
1992 Belfry 34 Pikeville (?, Fill in tmrw)
1993 Belfry 26 Pikeville 6
1994 Pikeville 36 Belfry 18 (or Pikeville 42 Belfry 27?)
1995 Belfry 7 Pikeville 6
1996 Belfry 26 Pikeville 0 (Overtime)
1997 Belfry 42 Pikeville 7
1998 Pikeville 35 Belfry 19
1999 Pikeville 28 Belfry 6
2000 Pikeville 31 Belfry 14
2001 Belfry 21 Pikeville 0
2002 Belfry 20 Pikeville 13
2003 Belfry 28 Pikeville 6 (Belfry AAA State Champion)
2004 Belfry 30 Pikeville 0 (Belfry AAA State Champion)
2005 Belfry 36 Pikeville 13
2006 Belfry 24 Pikeville 20
2007 Belfry 49 Pikeville 7
2008 Belfry 48 Pikeville 7
2009 Belfry 54 Pikeville 20
2010 Belfry 55 Pikeville 24
2011 Belfry 55 Pikeville 14
2012 Belfry 48 Pikeville 0

found an article from before 2007's game by Rick Bentley:

"There are some numbers in this series that always amaze me. The rivalry is considered a close one, and always has been. Tonight the teams will play for the 47th time since the first meeting in the autumn of 1949 (contrary to popular opinion, I did not cover that initial meeting; The '53 game was my first). Belfry has won 25 times, Pikeville 18, and three were ties.

Of those sister-kissings - which cannot happen anymore, by the way, thanks to overtime - the most interesting one took place in 1956. The score? Trick question! There was no score. By the way, if anybody has a film of that game, I'd love to see it. Seriously.

In that time, Belfry has outscored Pikeville by the still somewhat-close margin of 843-668. That means the average is 18.33 to 14.52, or just more than a field goal.

Philip Haywood has really put his stamp on this series. The legendary Belfry coach is 16-7 since taking over on Pond Creek and has an overall record of 18-13 against the Panthers."

Putting those numbers, adding in games since '07:

-Belfry leads the series 31-18-3 (It was 19-18-3 at one point lol)
-Haywood is 22-7 versus Pikeville (at Belfry)
-Chris McNamee is 2-7 versus Belfry (at Pikeville)
-Overall Score: Belfry 1,152 Pikeville 740
-The Two schools have played 52 times

1994 score was 42-28 Pikeville in "The Sod Bowl" @ Pikeville my senior year. Our field was destroyed by "The Autumn Jam" the weekend before and they had to completely re-sod the field. They were still trying to dry the field as late as that Friday afternoon using helicopters. But it didn't matter...the field was a mess! I dove after a fumble in that game and came with an entire face mask full of sod, it was nasty. I remember Coach Howard mad enough to kill when he saw that field after the concert...

[PHSForever]

Watered down 6 class system vs. watered down Eastern 1A.. for decades Pikeville's only competition to reach the Semi-State was Paintsville and Hazard... at least Belfry has had to get through Breathitt County, Russell, and Somerset while in the new 3A.

Also 31-18-3 still has no argument as well.

This all just reinforces what my initial point was...before the past decade the programs have been very similar with the exception of Pikeville's 3-peat title run that clearly made them the best program, but you can't ignore a decade of utter dominance on every level when it is 20% of the entire timeline of the series.. and what belfry has done in their dominant run has swung the pendulum back to their favor as the best program.

Have to pump the brakes on this a bit here. Yes, Pikeville has been in A class for a long time now. HOWEVER, the 2 runner up years in 72 and 79, they were AA. While they bounced back and forth a few years betweenA and AA, mostly have been A. Now, Belfry is a relative newcomer to AAA. they were AA up until I believe 2004? But we all know they were in the upper echelon student count wise of that, and really probably should have been AAA, but it is what is is. Having said that, the argument stands that Belfry really had an easy road several of those years as well to the semi-finals,some years' easier than Pikeville's road (not many though). Since moving to AAA Belfry has not won a title. It's been a fun debate to read and lightly participate in. I've enjoyed reading all the points. I think the main thing we can all agree on, Pikeville and Belfry really established modern day mountain team respectability, dominance, name recognition.

[EKUAlum05]

Have to pump the brakes on this a bit here. Yes, Pikeville has been in A class for a long time now. HOWEVER, the 2 runner up years in 72 and 79, they were AA. While they bounced back and forth a few years betweenA and AA, mostly have been A. Now, Belfry is a relative newcomer to AAA. they were AA up until I believe 2004? But we all know they were in the upper echelon student count wise of that, and really probably should have been AAA, but it is what is is. Having said that, the argument stands that Belfry really had an easy road several of those years as well to the semi-finals,some years' easier than Pikeville's road (not many though). Since moving to AAA Belfry has not won a title. It's been a fun debate to read and lightly participate in. I've enjoyed reading all the points. I think the main thing we can all agree on, Pikeville and Belfry really established modern day mountain team respectability, dominance, name recognition.

- Belfry was AAA for many, many years until the very late 90's.

- Belfry won their titles in 2A, but it was still during the 4 Class System. At that time Belfry's enrollment would have been upper-middle for a 2A team.. Belfry's playoff runs those years included defeating one of the Top 5 Pburg teams all-time, one of the top 5 Middlesboro teams of all-time, and one of the Top 5 Lloyd Memorial teams of all-time. Also, the Etown team Belfry defeated in 2002 had 3 future multi-year SEC starters (Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky).. no slouch.

- Part of the perceived "easy" path Belfry has had the past few years can be blamed on Belfry themselves, and how they "expose" teams.

Look up the records and ranking of the following teams before they played Belfry:
2012 Bourbon County
2012 Breathitt County
2011 Garrard County
2011 Breathitt County
2010 Somerset
2010 Mason County
2010 Pike Central
2007 Breathitt County
2007 Sheldon Clark
2006 Middlesboro
2004 Pburg
2004 Russell
2003 Middlesboro

There were a lot of teams who entered with a sterling record, big wins, and thinking they were on their way to a Championship only to be smacked by Belfry. None of these are teams form the Finals, FWIW to prove it was Belfry's path.

To save some time, of the 13 teams I listed above their combined record excluding their losses to Belfry (some had 2 to the Pirates) was 148-7!

A winning percentage of 95.5% and average record of 11 wins and .5 Losses entering their matchup with Belfry.

- Of those 7 losses they were to the following teams (Danville X 2, Russell, Bell County X 2, Knoxville Central TN, Pikeville)..not really any "bad" losses prior to losing to Belfry

- Maybe Belfry wasn't exposing teams as much as they simply were much better than good teams?

[Buc-a-roo]

Have to pump the brakes on this a bit here. Yes, Pikeville has been in A class for a long time now. HOWEVER, the 2 runner up years in 72 and 79, they were AA. While they bounced back and forth a few years betweenA and AA, mostly have been A. Now, Belfry is a relative newcomer to AAA. they were AA up until I believe 2004? But we all know they were in the upper echelon student count wise of that, and really probably should have been AAA, but it is what is is. Having said that, the argument stands that Belfry really had an easy road several of those years as well to the semi-finals,some years' easier than Pikeville's road (not many though). Since moving to AAA Belfry has not won a title. It's been a fun debate to read and lightly participate in. I've enjoyed reading all the points. I think the main thing we can all agree on, Pikeville and Belfry really established modern day mountain team respectability, dominance, name recognition.

The Pirates have spent more years in 3A than 2A. Plus, with the exception of the two championship years, the bulk of Belfry's success has come while they were 3A.

Belfry's Classification History

AA 1959 - 1974, 16 Years
AA 1999 - 2006, 8 Years

AAA 1975 - 1998, 24 Years
AAA 2007 - 2013, 7 Years and counting

[64SUR]

From an outsider I would give the edge to belfry but what this tell me is that pike county is football nation in eastern Kentucky :1:

[PHSForever]

The Pirates have spent more years in 3A than 2A. Plus, with the exception of the two championship years, the bulk of Belfry's success has come while they were 3A.

Belfry's Classification History

AA 1959 - 1974, 16 Years
AA 1999 - 2006, 8 Years

AAA 1975 - 1998, 24 Years
AAA 2007 - 2013, 7 Years and counting

I stand corrected. Pikeville was A in 79 I think. Anyway, my point still is that during the 4 class years, Pikeville did very well also. Declining enrollment has also been a huge factor. With the combination of Johns Creek and Mullins to creat PikeCentral, many who would go to Pikeville now are at PCC. Like another poster said, Pikeville can't help that their district competition is so weak. One of the reasons they play the Middlesboros, Belfys, etc in their out of district games to get better. It results in losses early in the season many times, but prepares them for the deep playoff runs they are accustomed to. Belfry plays a he'll of a schedule too. But no doubt, 2 of the premier programs in the mountains. You just can't use the last decade solely to say Belfry is the best program period. Yes, they have been for the last decade, but OVERALL, I have to go with Pikeville. Both have had down periods, both had/are having a resurgence once they found "the" right coach, etc. I came back right when they had run Coach Mac out the first time, and the consensus of every single person I talked to was that it was a huge mistake. They were right. Chapman, Jackson, and Copley destroyed the pipeline by not encouraging development at the lowers grade levels. That led to a lot of kids transferring schools.

[Leonidas]

1994 score was 42-28 Pikeville in "The Sod Bowl" @ Pikeville my senior year. Our field was destroyed by "The Autumn Jam" the weekend before and they had to completely re-sod the field. They were still trying to dry the field as late as that Friday afternoon using helicopters. But it didn't matter...the field was a mess! I dove after a fumble in that game and came with an entire face mask full of sod, it was nasty. I remember Coach Howard mad enough to kill when he saw that field after the concert...

The field literally stunk to the high heavens, too.