[CraftCreeker]

I want compared stats.
I want you guy to rant on the players.

Lets see who BGR really think the best is?

I'm going with Kobe. I'm not going to pick a flopppper to be the best basketball player to be playing right now.

Let the flame WAR BEGIN.

:flame:

[Belfry0304]

I want compared stats.
I want you guy to rant on the players.

Lets see who BGR really think the best is?

I'm going with Kobe. I'm not going to pick a flopppper to be the best basketball player to be playing right now.

Let the flame WAR BEGIN.

:flame:

Too many angles to look at this from! Athleticsm, LeBron. Basketball player and competitor, Kobe. If you're saying who's better now, probably LeBron, but Kobe 4 years ago is better than LeBron now, way too many technicalities.

For shits and giggles, if I can find it I will post a link to a forum response on a Cavs forum (from both before and after he left, just for the record) about people who have encountered LeBron, you'll see he's not a leader. At all. In life and in basketball.

[Mr. Pike Central]

LeBron.

[Patch]

If you are going by career totals, then Kobe is hands down. He has the titles to be called a winner and a leader and has done it his whole career in a pressure cooker town like LA. And I know he had Shaq for some of the titles, sure, but then again Lebron didn't get a title until he teamed up with Bosh and Wade either. In his prime Kobe could do it all and there is no comparing the outside shooting of Kobe in his prime to Lebron in his prime, Kobe could out shoot him all day. Lebron better passer and as far as rebounding Kobe and him not so different considering they play slightly different positions. Both great, both HOF for sure, but in their primes, I would personally take Kobe.

[Aslan]

Too many angles to look at this from! Athleticsm, LeBron. Basketball player and competitor, Kobe. If you're saying who's better now, probably LeBron, but Kobe 4 years ago is better than LeBron now, way too many technicalities.

For shits and giggles, if I can find it I will post a link to a forum response on a Cavs forum (from both before and after he left, just for the record) about people who have encountered LeBron, you'll see he's not a leader. At all. In life and in basketball.

This is a good post.
Right now, I do believe LeBron has become a leader and the Heat are absolutely his team.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Lebron.
Its not even a contest.

The real question should be whether or not Lebron will pss up Jordan for best player of all time within the next five years.

[Aslan]

That is an appalling question. Lebron is a statistical monster, but he's not the type of winner MJ and Kobe are. Lebron just seemed to give up tonight. And this isn't the first time I've seen him do this in the playoffs. Never have I ever seen Kobe/MJ do that.

[KHSAA12]

Now boys kobe lost playoffs game. There's a point when u know the games over or in reach. Heat will bounce back

[K_Mac]

I haven't posted in months, but I'm still here daily. Had to sign in for this one. Kobe Bryant.

[tomcatfan722000]

I think a better argument is Kobe or MJ Lebron isn't even in the conversation. The spurs are making him look average and he barely beat an old Celtic team last year with the help of one HOF'ER and a guy with multiple all star games. Remind you the same Celtic team that Kobe beat with his best support coming from Andrew Bynum Pau Gasol and Ron Artest. Not even close it's Kobe.

[Stardust]

[Image: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/image...bvLAz26ly5]

[#1 Blackcat Fan]

[Image: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/image...bvLAz26ly5]

Wrong player in that pic Dusty. Should be Jordan. He is and always will be the Basketball God.

[CraftCreeker]

That is an appalling question. Lebron is a statistical monster, but he's not the type of winner MJ and Kobe are. Lebron just seemed to give up tonight. And this isn't the first time I've seen him do this in the playoffs. Never have I ever seen Kobe/MJ do that.

I agree, Lebron is going to have to really step it up and take control of games if we are going to consider him to be better than Jordan. I know here comes the comments that Lebron can't do it all... but Lebron has got to learn to play his game and take control whenever he has the ability to do so. From what I see he just gives up.

[Stardust]

[Image: http://www.kkuodesign.com/wordpress/wp-c...lpaper.jpg]

[Strikeout King]

Right now, it's LeBron. NO If's, and's or but's

[Belfry0304]

This is a good post.
Right now, I do believe LeBron has become a leader and the Heat are absolutely his team.

I disagree with you, I think the only thing LeBron lacks is mental toughness. That's the ONLY thing though.

[#1 Blackcat Fan]

[Image: http://www.kkuodesign.com/wordpress/wp-c...lpaper.jpg]

I can agree with that one, but as i said Jordan will always be the Basketball God.

[Wildcatk23]

I think a better argument is Kobe or MJ Lebron isn't even in the conversation. The spurs are making him look average and he barely beat an old Celtic team last year with the help of one HOF'ER and a guy with multiple all star games. Remind you the same Celtic team that Kobe beat with his best support coming from Andrew Bynum Pau Gasol and Ron Artest. Not even close it's Kobe.

Kobe beat? You should go look at who the MVP should have been of that finals. Pau gasol and Joey Crawford .

[Aslan]

I think a better argument is Kobe or MJ Lebron isn't even in the conversation. The spurs are making him look average and he barely beat an old Celtic team last year with the help of one HOF'ER and a guy with multiple all star games. Remind you the same Celtic team that Kobe beat with his best support coming from Andrew Bynum Pau Gasol and Ron Artest. Not even close it's Kobe.

I concur. Lebron has to win at least three more titles before we even start mentioning him in these conversations.

[RunItUpTheGut]

That is an appalling question. Lebron is a statistical monster, but he's not the type of winner MJ and Kobe are. Lebron just seemed to give up tonight. And this isn't the first time I've seen him do this in the playoffs. Never have I ever seen Kobe/MJ do that.

How could you know hes not a winner?
He was drafter into the worst team in the league and guided them farther than any other player in the league could have.
Then, goes to Miami and wins a ring in two years and has them back in the finals the next year....

How is that not considered a winner?

[Stardust]

Wilt Chamberlain must be the biggest bust in history, he just could win a title until he went from San Francisco to Philly and play with Hal Greer. Then he was such a HORRIBLE superstar that he then had to run to LA and play with Jerry West in order to get another title. Man, when you look at the Greatest players to ever play the game, they must NOT have really been all that great after all!

God love Robert Horry, he may not know it, but his GREATNESS so far exceeds MJ, Kobe and Lebron, that he doesn't even know it....


[Image: http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/S...yLewis.jpg]

[CraftCreeker]

How could you know hes not a winner?
He was drafter into the worst team in the league and guided them farther than any other player in the league could have.
Then, goes to Miami and wins a ring in two years and has them back in the finals the next year....

How is that not considered a winner?

Lebron is a winner, We are talking about very talented players here and rings combined I believe that is what is dictating the Legendary status.

[CraftCreeker]

[Image:

]

Give Lebron 4 rings at least... Then maybe he will be considerable for Jordan.

[Aslan]

How could you know hes not a winner?
He was drafter into the worst team in the league and guided them farther than any other player in the league could have.
Then, goes to Miami and wins a ring in two years and has them back in the finals the next year....

How is that not considered a winner?

Reread my post. Never said he wasn't a winner, just not on the upper echelon of the NBA greats.
Even if he does win several rings with Miami, he's doing it with a superstar and an all star. Miami should win every year without any resistance. Kobe had Shaq for the first three, and Pau for the last two. That's it. Granted Shaq was the best player in the league at the time, but Pau was good, just never great.
Jordan obviously had Scottie.
But this is the times. Players want to team up. Cp3 and D12 talking about it right now.

[RunItUpTheGut]

He hasnt had time yet!
Thats my point.
Consider his time in Cleveland training.
He obviously couldnt win a ring with that team and neither could anybody else in history.

If they win it this year, it will be 2 out of 3. What more could you ask for?
Once Lebron wins his 7th or 8th title, all you may finally agree.

[Stardust]

^ You are spot on!

We can debate this all we want, but when Lebron's career is over, we are probably going to say he was the greatest "Basketball Player" of all time. Titles is how we all rank greatness, so only time will tell where he finishes there. But, there is no denying that we are witnessing something that NONE of us have ever seen in our lifetime! We missed out on seeing the great Oscar Robertson, who did only win one title, and it was at the very end of his career and not until he got to play with Lew Alcindor did he get that title.

But to deny what Lebron does on the floor is so short-sighted, it's only for the haters to blind themselves to!

Wilt Chamberlain is credited as the most dominate player of his and maybe any era. Lebron players with that type of domination on most nights. There is no other player in the league that dominates the entire floor in today's game than Lebron.

Shaq is considered the most physically dominate player ever. Shaq was a 7 footer, who could easily out physical every other player in the league. Lebron is in the same category now, and at 6-8, can physically dominate most all players in the league that is taller than him.

Magic was likely the greatest floor general to play the game. Lebron's primary role is the floor general! His ability to get every player on the team involved makes everyone compare his game to Magic's. Lebron does not need a Point Guard to set the offense, he does it! Lebron did not need Scottie Pippin to be the guy who brings the ball up the floor to set the offense, he does it. Then, he gets himself in position to be a scorer as well.

MJ is the greatest scorer of our time. Lebron is not as great of a scorer as MJ, or even others in the league such as KD. But, Lebron can score 30 points whenever he so chooses. He does not do it at all times, and instead of him forcing 30 shots up like Kobe, Lebron recognizes his off nights and will shoot less than 20 times, but will dish out to those who can score that night.

MJ was not just a great scorer, but a great defender and his Defensive MVP's proved that he was recognized by his peers as a great perimeter defender. Wilt and Kareem were both incredible interior defenders. Lebron is a league defensive MVP player as well. He guards Point Guards and like what we have seen in the finals, will stuff shots by seven footers! Lebron can dominate a game defensively!

Leader ship is what MJ gets credited for, but his leadership was through intimidation of his teammates and his intensity level. Lebron is beloved by his teammates. They know he has their back and he is only there to make them better, not himself. Kobe gets slammed by his teammates as being selfish and aloof. Guys did not look to MJ or Kobe to be their friend, and they didn't have to in order to win. Lebron wins, and his teammates adore him! He is one of the most likable superstars to ever play the game by his peers!

Kareem leads all time as a 6 time League MVP, considered the best player in all of basketball. Lebron already has four, and he is only halfway through his career. He is considered not just the best player in the NBA, but the greatest player on the planet. Go back to the Olympics and listen to guys like Kobe, Coach K and the rest defer to Lebron in their comments that he is the best player in the world.

Kevin Garnett is a HOF'er the day he retires. It's a tough argument to say who the greatest PF of all-time was (KG, Duncan or the Mailman), but KG could not have won an NBA title until he left the horrible situation he was in and created the "BIG THREE". Wilt would have never won a title had he stayed in San Francisco his entire career. Lebron is in his third straight NBA Finals. With D-Wade and Bosh, he is supposed to be. But there is no question who the best player on the team is. Hearken back to when he took Cleveland to the NBA Finals. That team was the worst collection of players to ever play in an NBA Finals. Proof being that when Lebron left, the Cavs were the worst team in basketball. His haters will say he didn't win until he left. Well there and other GREATS that could have never taken the Cavs to the playoffs, much less the Finals.

Love him, hate him, debate him - but the facts above prove them-self! When you add every dimension of the game of basketball, there has never (EVER) been a player to do everything that Lebron is doing! Score, Rebound, Assist, Steal, Block - no one! You don't have to lead the league in stats, but when you can do them all at anytime they want, who else has ever done it!

Let a new debate begin, but if you compared the above facets of the game to Kobe, then that makes this thread obsolete, because Kobe does not fit most of those categories!

[Hoot Gibson]

If Lebron James never wins another title, barring serious injury, he will still be remembered as one of the five most dominant players of all time. Aside from his free throw shooting percentage, Kobe's stats pale in comparison to James and the level of competition they have faced has been very comparable.

IMO, Wilt Chamberlain was the most dominant player of his era, but during the peak years of his career, he was saddled with a mediocre cast. Titles are great, but they really are a poor measure of the relative skill of a player in relation to other players in the league. As Dusty said, based on titles, Robert Horry belongs on everybody's list of top players of all time, and we all know that he was just a good NBA player who found himself in the right places at the right times.

Lebron has many good years left and he has posted better numbers and demonstrated himself to be a better team player than Kobe at every stage of their respective careers. Lebron has improved steadily in every phase of his career. Kobe peaked early and has never learned to distinguish between a good shot and a bad one. The only time that their stats were comparable was very early in their careers.

[Stardust]

^ Great Post Hoot. I was careful to not confuse Wilt's dominance to Sahq's pure power!

[Aslan]

There's a huge difference in leading your team to a title like Kobe and Bron do and being a role player on a title team. Robert Horry is the definition of that. He happened to hit a few huge shots, but he didn't do the bulk of the lifting.
Unlike football or baseball, basketball you're defined by rings. Only five players on the court, you can have a more significant impact than most sports.
You may call me a LeBron hater, but I've never said I hate him or don't enjoy watching him play. I'm not going to hate someone because they're great.
I just am not a fan and people get butt hurt when someone don't bow to everything LeBron does and forgets to point out some of his failures in the past.
LeBron is obviously a great player and will go down in the top 10 ever. Hell, he'll even have the scoring title for a while...until Durant shatters it.
I'd like to see Bron will a title without two all stars though. Kobe and Jordan only had one at a time. Put the best player in the world ATM, combined with two all stars, one a superstar, and its just too easy. Make your own path.

[Stardust]

^ first off, the continued gutteral of wishing to see Lebron do somesthing that no one else did shows the failure to acknowledge that he has done something the MJ or Kobe never did. Both Jordan and Kobe had HOF talent beside them just to get to a title game. Who knows what they could have done with the abysmal talent of the Cavs, but we know that both played with teams that did not win titles that you could have taken those Bulls and Lakers teams (with MJ and Kobe) and beat that Cavs team without Lebron 90 out of 100 times. D-wade has never played with consistency over the last three years that Shaq, Pippen, and even Pau, so MJ's Robin was better and Kobe was Robin in the Shaq years. Anbody that wants to call Bosh a legit "Big 3" player has nothing more to do but find more excuses to add to their argument! The Big 3 of the Jordan years were 1st ballot HOFers, some that Bosh will never see. Everyone hates on Lebron and his Big 3, and as I said earlier, completely ignores the Celtics for doing the exact same thing.

As Hoot said, everyone so easily goes to the titles as their primay evaluation tool. If that's the case, then Wilt sucked and was overated......