[TheRealVille]

Yeah, Michigan code requires a master plumber to do it or he has to supervise the flunkies under his charge, being ultimately responsible to make sure their work meets code requirements.

Wrong. At least when I ran it in MI, no plumbing license required.
You can argue this until you turn blue, and you'll still be wrong. Do you think I didn't take the class and learn the rules of the time?

[SKINNYPIG]

How bout you guys start a "Licensing" thread

[TheRealThing]

Wrong. At least when I ran it in MI, no plumbing license required.
You can argue this until you turn blue, and you'll still be wrong. Do you think I didn't take the class and learn the rules of the time?

Here it is in blue and it was in effect in 2006. All I'm saying here is that my statements are all backed up by the various agreements and codes I have quoted from. According to the Michigan code you may well have run med gas piping in Michigan but, if you did it was under the supervision of a licensed master plumber who was responsible to make sure your work met code requirements again, as was according to their code specifics of the day.

MEDICAL GAS PIPING INSTALLATIONS
Issue
What individuals have the responsibility for obtaining permits, providing supervision, making installations, conducting inspections, and conducting verifications for medical gas piping systems in accordance with State of Michigan requirements? This Technical Bulletin will identify the various documents addressing these matters and provide a brief summary of who performs the various functions related to medical gas piping installations.

Statute
The State Plumbing Act, 2002 PA 733 (Act 733) has several applicable references in the statue, which address medical gas systems.
Section 9(b) states:
"Plumbing" means the practice, materials, and fixtures, in or adjacent to a
building, structure, or premises, used in the installation, maintenance, extension, or alteration of all piping, fixtures, plumbing appliances, plumbing appurtenances, as defined by the code, in connection with the sanitary drainage or storm drainage facilities, plumbing venting systems, medical gas systems, backflow preventers, and public or private water supply systems. (Emphasis added by author)

Section 9 identifies and includes medical gas systems within the scope of plumbing addressed by Act 733.

Section 15 states:
(1) A person shall not engage in or work at the business of a plumbing
contractor, master plumber, journey plumber, or apprentice plumber unless
licensed or registered by the department. Except as provided in subsections
(2), (3), (4), and (5), plumbing shall be performed by a licensed master or
journey plumber. A licensed master plumber shall be in charge and
responsible for proper installation and conformance with the code.
Plumbing shall not be performed unless the plumbing contractor who is
responsible has secured a permit from the state or a governmental
subdivision authorized to issue permits.
(2) A license is not required for the following work:
(a) Minor repair work.
(b) The installation of a building sewer or water service pipe provided that
a permit is secured from the responsible enforcing agency and
inspections are performed. The installations shall comply with the
applicable code.
3
© The installation of domestic water treatment and filtering equipment
that requires modification to an existing cold water distribution supply
and associated waste piping in buildings if a permit is secured,
required inspections performed, and the installation complies with the
applicable code. If the enforcing agency determines a violation exists,
it shall be corrected by the responsible installer.
(3) A homeowner may install his or her own plumbing, building sewer, or
private sewer in his or her single-family dwelling if a permit is secured.
(4) The installation of medical gas piping providing the installation shall be
performed under the supervision of a licensed plumbing contractor.
(5) This act does not prevent a person from performing any activities within the scope of licensure or registration under any other licensure or registration
act or applicable codes for that licensed or registered professional adopted
pursuant to law. (Emphasis added by author)

Section 15(1) the second sentence clarifies that a license is not required for items addressed in subsections (2), (3), (4), and (5). Subsection(4) includes medical gas systems and clarifies that they “shall be performed under the supervision of a licensed plumbing contractor.” Thus, the installer, while not being required to be licensed, shall be employed by the licensed plumbing contractor.

Section 15(1) further requires the licensed plumbing contractor to obtain a permit for plumbing, which was defined earlier to include medical gas systems.
Finally, Act 733 establishes a licensed master plumber shall be in charge and responsible for proper installation and conformance with the code. The requirement of having a master plumber for supervision assigned to the contractor is implemented and stated in Sections 7(d), 9©, 15(1), 21(4), and 41(2).

Penalties for non compliance of Act 733 are identified in Sections 47 and 49.
The Stille-DeRossett-Hale Single State Construction Code Act, 1972 PA 230 (Act 230) establishes the authority of the director, commission, and boards to develop the appropriate international codes through the rules process to adequately protect the health, safety, and welfare of Michigan citizens. It also establishes code enforcement authority for those jurisdictions seeking the authority.
The Michigan Building Officials and Inspectors Registration Act, 1986 PA 54 (Act 54) establishes and regulates the registration of building officials and various inspectors. Rules which regulated conduct and minimum training requirements were also developed.

[TheRealThing]

How bout you guys start a "Licensing" thread

Sorry, I'm done imposing on you guy's patience. :biggrin:

[TheRealVille]

TRT, man I'm sorry, it just dawned on me that you having to be right on everything is your "corvette". I'll try to keep making you compensate for your "short comings".

[TheRealVille]

*keep from

[vector]

here's a look at romneycare it's been the law for 7 years now for you slow guy's it's the father of obamacare

http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/01/pf/massa...F_PF_River

[Spirit100]

Visited a small business in Madisonville today that will see a 40% increase in premiums as of January 1. Quoted by their insurance provider last month. They've been shopping and 40% is the lowest increase.

They're being rewarded for their loyalty. Grab a helmet and a cork for your hind end folks!!!

[TheRealVille]

Visited a small business in Madisonville today that will see a 40% increase in premiums as of January 1. Quoted by their insurance provider last month. They've been shopping and 40% is the lowest increase.

They're being rewarded for their loyalty. Grab a helmet and a cork for your hind end folks!!!

Is that before, or after the part the government is going to help with?

[the other guy]

here's a look at romneycare it's been the law for 7 years now for you slow guy's it's the father of obamacare

http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/01/pf/massa...F_PF_River

It really looks to me that most people agree that cost are going up it's just a question of who pays the increase, businesses have more expences or governmemt makes up the increase. which means everyday joe pays higher prices or higher taxes.

Now i hope it works my concern is being denied care by some panel somewhere.Which has already been done to me under present law. Government regulations made me wait 90 days for a heart device(something like a pacemaker). As my heart loses more function in the future i will need a pump or transplant will i be deamed worth the cost or not. My grandkids would vote yes but i'm not sure about my government. again i hope it works but the government has spent about $100 million on a flood control project in martin close to where i live. they have yet to protect anything from flooding. i,m not sure i want the same guys over my healthcare.

[vector]

It really looks to me that most people agree that cost are going up it's just a question of who pays the increase, businesses have more expences or governmemt makes up the increase. which means everyday joe pays higher prices or higher taxes.

Now i hope it works my concern is being denied care by some panel somewhere.Which has already been done to me under present law. Government regulations made me wait 90 days for a heart device(something like a pacemaker). As my heart loses more function in the future i will need a pump or transplant will i be deamed worth the cost or not. My grandkids would vote yes but i'm not sure about my government. again i hope it works but the government has spent about $100 million on a flood control project in martin close to where i live. they have yet to protect anything from flooding. i,m not sure i want the same guys over my healthcare.

so you either have medicare or medicade for your insurance which both are gov run so you would leave it ALL up to the private insurance companys is that about right

[RunItUpTheGut]

You didnt build that!

[the other guy]

so you either have medicare or medicade for your insurance which both are gov run so you would leave it ALL up to the private insurance companys is that about right

I have no insurance at the moment paid my cobra as long as i could, There's a 24 month waiting period on medicare so I still have a few months to go. Like it or not they are a lot of regulations in obamacare concerning health benefit reviews, in other words-is someone worth treating.
Now you seem to have some sort of chip on your shoulder about this stuff and just want to give some smarta-- remark instead of having a honest discussuin
I had private insurance but was still delayed treatment because of government regs. My insurance paid for the treatment once I made it past the required waiting period. I am giving simple facts about my place in all this nothing more.
I hope you are young and healthy and never have to deal with these things.

[vector]

I have no insurance at the moment paid my cobra as long as i could, There's a 24 month waiting period on medicare so I still have a few months to go. Like it or not they are a lot of regulations in obamacare concerning health benefit reviews, in other words-is someone worth treating.
Now you seem to have some sort of chip on your shoulder about this stuff and just want to give some smarta-- remark instead of having a honest discussuin
I had private insurance but was still delayed treatment because of government regs. My insurance paid for the treatment once I made it past the required waiting period. I am giving simple facts about my place in all this nothing more.
I hope you are young and healthy and never have to deal with these things.

so all this happened before obamacare takes effect ?

[TheRealVille]

Here it is in blue and it was in effect in 2006. All I'm saying here is that my statements are all backed up by the various agreements and codes I have quoted from. According to the Michigan code you may well have run med gas piping in Michigan but, if you did it was under the supervision of a licensed master plumber who was responsible to make sure your work met code requirements again, as was according to their code specifics of the day.

The "day was 2001-2003, like I said. Give us something from that "day".

[TheRealThing]

The "day was 2001-2003, like I said. Give us something from that "day".

Actually I'm more of a chevelle man. LOL, now you're saying everything changed right after you left Michigan? :please:

Finally, Act 733 establishes a licensed master plumber shall be in charge and responsible for proper installation and conformance with the code. The requirement of having a master plumber for supervision assigned to the contractor is implemented and stated in Sections 7(d), 9©, 15(1), 21(4), and 41(2). It's plumber work.

[TheRealVille]

Actually I'm more of a chevelle man. LOL, now you're saying everything changed right after you left Michigan? :please:

Finally, Act 733 establishes a licensed master plumber shall be in charge and responsible for proper installation and conformance with the code. The requirement of having a master plumber for supervision assigned to the contractor is implemented and stated in Sections 7(d), 9©, 15(1), 21(4), and 41(2). It's plumber work.

I don't see a date there. I was running med gas from 2001-2003, and I sent you a msg on the prerequisites(to keep it away from the thread) to run med gas at that time. There was no plumber requirement. You posted 2006 code, I was long gone by then. Like Hoot would say, good luck finding 2001 code.

[RunItUpTheGut]

It was nice to see Obama speechless without notes or a teleprompter yesterday.
ITs almost becoming unbearable to watch the failures.

Something ive noticed online is that a lot of comments in the comment section of liberal sites have several hardcore libs even admitting they made a mistake.

Theres only so much everyone can take.

[TheRealVille]

It was nice to see Obama speechless without notes or a teleprompter yesterday.
ITs almost becoming unbearable to watch the failures.

Something ive noticed online is that a lot of comments in the comment section of liberal sites have several hardcore libs even admitting they made a mistake.

Theres only so much everyone can take.

Post some.

[Hoot Gibson]

Post some.

Are you serious? You don't believe that there are any honest liberals who have a problem with the federal government collecting all of their phone records and having access to their activities on Facebook, Google, etc.?

[INDENT]

In digital era, privacy must be a priority. Is it just me, or is secret blanket surveillance obscenely outrageous? http://t.co/KONSBtTWjc - former U.S. Vice President Al Gore

[/INDENT]

Not all of the liberals who criticized Bush for signing the Patriot Act into law are hypocrites. Obama has gone far beyond wiretapping phones of people suspected of communicating with Al Qaeda. The federal government has your phone call logs, and more importantly, they have mine too.

I heard Bob Beckel come very close to calling the Obama regime fascist today and he has been one of the President's biggest defenders. Morale on the left-wing websites must be nearing an all time low. It seems like the only defense Obama has is that he is totally ignorant about what is going on within his own administration.

[TheRealThing]

I don't see a date there. I was running med gas from 2001-2003, and I sent you a msg on the prerequisites(to keep it away from the thread) to run med gas at that time. There was no plumber requirement. You posted 2006 code, I was long gone by then. Like Hoot would say, good luck finding 2001 code.

Kinda flies in the face of what I can find on it. Here is what is on the Michigan Legislative Website, and specifically dealing with section 15 so that there can be no confusion-----


STATE PLUMBING ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 733 of 2002


338.3525 Plumbing; license required; exceptions.


Sec. 15.

(1) A person shall not engage in or work at the business of a plumbing contractor, master plumber, journey plumber, or apprentice plumber unless licensed or registered by the department. Except as provided in subsections (2), (3), (4), and (5), plumbing shall be performed by a licensed master or journey plumber. A licensed master plumber shall be in charge and responsible for proper installation and conformance with the code. Plumbing shall not be performed unless the plumbing contractor who is responsible has secured a permit from the state or a governmental subdivision authorized to issue permits.

(2) A license is not required for the following work:

(a) Minor repair work.

(b) The installation of a building sewer or water service pipe provided that a permit is secured from the responsible enforcing agency and inspections are performed. The installations shall comply with the applicable code.

© The installation of domestic water treatment and filtering equipment that requires modification to an existing cold water distribution supply and associated waste piping in buildings if a permit is secured, required inspections performed, and the installation complies with the applicable code. If the enforcing agency determines a violation exists, it shall be corrected by the responsible installer.

(3) A homeowner may install his or her own plumbing, building sewer, or private sewer in his or her single-family dwelling if a permit is secured.

(4) The installation of medical gas piping providing the installation shall be performed under the supervision of a licensed plumbing contractor.

(5) This act does not prevent a person from performing any activities within the scope of licensure or registration under any other licensure or registration act or applicable codes for that licensed or registered professional adopted pursuant to law.


History: 2002, Act 733, Eff. Mar. 31, 2003

[TheRealVille]

Kinda flies in the face of what I can find on it. Here is what is on the Michigan Legislative Website, and specifically dealing with section 15 so that there can be no confusion-----


STATE PLUMBING ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 733 of 2002


338.3525 Plumbing; license required; exceptions.


Sec. 15.

(1) A person shall not engage in or work at the business of a plumbing contractor, master plumber, journey plumber, or apprentice plumber unless licensed or registered by the department. Except as provided in subsections (2), (3), (4), and (5), plumbing shall be performed by a licensed master or journey plumber. A licensed master plumber shall be in charge and responsible for proper installation and conformance with the code. Plumbing shall not be performed unless the plumbing contractor who is responsible has secured a permit from the state or a governmental subdivision authorized to issue permits.

(2) A license is not required for the following work:

(a) Minor repair work.

(b) The installation of a building sewer or water service pipe provided that a permit is secured from the responsible enforcing agency and inspections are performed. The installations shall comply with the applicable code.

© The installation of domestic water treatment and filtering equipment that requires modification to an existing cold water distribution supply and associated waste piping in buildings if a permit is secured, required inspections performed, and the installation complies with the applicable code. If the enforcing agency determines a violation exists, it shall be corrected by the responsible installer.

(3) A homeowner may install his or her own plumbing, building sewer, or private sewer in his or her single-family dwelling if a permit is secured.

(4) The installation of medical gas piping providing the installation shall be performed under the supervision of a licensed plumbing contractor.

(5) This act does not prevent a person from performing any activities within the scope of licensure or registration under any other licensure or registration act or applicable codes for that licensed or registered professional adopted pursuant to law.


History: 2002, Act 733, Eff. Mar. 31, 2003

Is this 2001, when I started?

[TheRealThing]

Is this 2001, when I started?

:igiveup:

[TheRealThing]

Are you serious? You don't believe that there are any honest liberals who have a problem with the federal government collecting all of their phone records and having access to their activities on Facebook, Google, etc.?

[INDENT][/INDENT]

Not all of the liberals who criticized Bush for signing the Patriot Act into law are hypocrites. Obama has gone far beyond wiretapping phones of people suspected of communicating with Al Qaeda. The federal government has your phone call logs, and more importantly, they have mine too.

I heard Bob Beckel come very close to calling the Obama regime fascist today and he has been one of the President's biggest defenders. Morale on the left-wing websites must be nearing an all time low. It seems like the only defense Obama has is that he is totally ignorant about what is going on within his own administration.

It's unbelievable. ANY previous administration who having been caught up in half of this stuff and then to claim they didn't know about it as a defense, would have been run out of town long before now. From Fast and Furious to the IRS scandal, even though all these agencies are part of the executive branch of the federal government. They're finding out all this stuff just like us, when they pick up the paper in the morning. Makes you wonder what those Presidential morning briefings are about, doesn't it? nicker:

[vundy33]

I feel like I've taken a class on pluming after reading this page, haha.

[vector]

Are you serious? You don't believe that there are any honest liberals who have a problem with the federal government collecting all of their phone records and having access to their activities on Facebook, Google, etc.?

Not all of the liberals who criticized Bush for signing the Patriot Act into law are hypocrites. Obama has gone far beyond wiretapping phones of people suspected of communicating with Al Qaeda. The federal government has your phone call logs, and more importantly, they have mine too.

I heard Bob Beckel come very close to calling the Obama regime fascist today and he has been one of the President's biggest defenders. Morale on the left-wing websites must be nearing an all time low. It seems like the only defense Obama has is that he is totally ignorant about what is going on within his own administration.

http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washingto...-nsa_x.htm

now when your boy did it was allright

[vector]

It's unbelievable. ANY previous administration who having been caught up in half of this stuff and then to claim they didn't know about it as a defense, would have been run out of town long before now. From Fast and Furious to the IRS scandal, even though all these agencies are part of the executive branch of the federal government. They're finding out all this stuff just like us, when they pick up the paper in the morning. Makes you wonder what those Presidential morning briefings are about, doesn't it? nicker:

you and hoot are two of the biggest Hippocras on this board

[Hoot Gibson]

http://yahoo.usatoday.com/news/washingto...-nsa_x.htm

now when your boy did it was allright

I don't have a "boy." If I did, then I would punish him by withdrawing my support when he did wrong. I supported, and still support wiretaps of phone calls made to or from phones located outside of the U.S., particularly to and from the phones belonging to Muslims in countries like Iran, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia.

[Hoot Gibson]

you and hoot are two of the biggest Hippocras on this board

You should stick to using insults that you can spell. Of course, that would pretty much eliminate your contributions to this forum. You even draw attention to your ignorance by using bold type to highlight it.

[vector]

You should stick to using insults that you can spell. Of course, that would pretty much eliminate your contributions to this forum. You even draw attention to your ignorance by using bold type to highlight it.

truth hurts don't it big boy