[vector]

http://www.lanereport.com/15434/2012/11/...hern-coal/

[Wildcatk23]

Is his war on coal real? Yes
Why? He is for clean Energy.
Which hurts this area.

500 coal miners being called back to jobs in Ky., Va. and W.Va.; another 650 to be hired, says Southern Coal

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

What kind of question is this?

Although I am happy for the miners that are being called back, this is not going to make up for the jobs already lost, the cut hours, and the wasted time we have spent on this stupid battle; a battle that should be nonexistent. There are quite a few "issues" we discuss today that shouldn't even be a thought in our minds, but yet, for some reason they are top priority. I'll never understand it.

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

I was told to expand my horizons a little bit and get into some more debate on here. I hope I can earn as much respect around these parts as some of the others have. :biggrin:

[WideRight05]

^ From experience, I know that it's extremely difficult to live up to the standards of the almighty one, TRV. Nobody can do it. nicker:

[TheRealVille]

Look at the giant high piles of coal down on rt 23 at Cattlettsburg, at all the coal docks. The most coal I have ever saw is piled there, right now.

[TheRealVille]

I was told to expand my horizons a little bit and get into some more debate on here. I hope I can earn as much respect around these parts as some of the others have. :biggrin:

Agree with the conservatives, and you'll be alright.

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

Look at the giant high piles of coal down on rt 23 at Cattlettsburg, at all the coal docks. The most coal I have ever saw is piled there, right now.

Yes, that plant has enough coal to last for three months. The demand is low due to weather, etc. I will give you that. What some don't understand is that the ability of the EPA (granted for the first time in history by Obama) to give or not give a mining permit to these companies is what is hurting the industry. Weather like last winter has happened before and will happen in the future. That doesn't help matters, lowering the demand for coal, but it sure doesn't bring down the industry.

What we have now is a foolish administration that is trying to get rid of it completely. You can't deny that. They've admitted it openly. I have been involved in the mining industry for almost 33 years and I'll tell you what; I'm all for regulations and keeping things as clean as possible. But when you are making regulations so impossible that the resulting runoff water is supposed to be purer than the water we drink, it is pretty obvious that you are strongly being attacked to the point to where you're soon gotten rid of. I've seen regulations been met for some mines and the EPA still not grant the permit. Mining coal hasn't been perfect before, it's not perfect now, and it will never be perfect as far as pollution goes.

I know that coal is a much-talked about subject on this forum (yes I do read, RV) as it should be. And I understand that people are tired of hearing about it, but it matters people. Those in denial will see.

[TheRealVille]

Yes, that plant has enough coal to last for three months. The demand is low due to weather, etc. I will give you that. What some don't understand is that the ability of the EPA (given by Obama) to give or not give a mining permit to these companies is what is hurting the industry. Weather like last winter has happened before and will happen in the future. That doesn't help matters, lowering the demand for coal, but it sure doesn't bring down the industry.

What we have now is a foolish administration that is trying to get rid of it completely. You can't deny that. I have been involved in the mining industry for almost 33 years and I'll tell you what; I'm all for regulations and keeping things as clean as possible. But when you are making regulations so impossible that the resulting runoff water is supposed to be purer than the water we drink, it is pretty obvious that you are strongly being attacked to the point to where you're soon gotten rid of.

I know that coal is much-talked about subject on this forum (yes I do read, RV) as it should be. And I understand that people are tired of hearing about it, but it matters people. Those in denial will see.

How did all that coal get there this summer? They didn't have permits to mine it? And, it's not a plant, it's a bunch of coal docks. Btw, I'm glad that you are for keeping it clean.

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

How did all that coal get there this summer? They didn't have permits to mine it? And, it's not a plant, it's a bunch of coal docks. Btw, I'm glad that you are for keeping it clean.

No demand. Didn't I just say that?

To clarify what I meant about the permits: I'm stressing the great difficulty it is to receive a permit to mine. We were able to get ours a couple of years ago. There is coal everywhere at our operation as well, because of no demand. The next permit has been worked on for months now with no response. It's not looking good.

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

How did all that coal get there this summer? They didn't have permits to mine it? And, it's not a plant, it's a bunch of coal docks. Btw, I'm glad that you are for keeping it clean.

That is a bunch of coal docks, but it is a power plant. I'm not sure how you could miss the boilers and cooling towers and say that it's not a plant.

[TheRealVille]

No demand. Didn't I just say that?

To clarify what I meant about the permits: I'm stressing the great difficulty it is to receive a permit to mine. We were able to get ours a couple of years ago. There is coal everywhere at our operation as well, because of no demand. The next permit has been worked on for months now with no response. It's not looking good.

For the record, I'm all for coal, as long as it's mined clean, and burned clean. For now, KY needs coal, but I hope they start to ween themselves off of it, because in not too many years, it will probably be almost a thing of the past.

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

For the record, I'm all for coal, as long as it's mined clean, and burned clean. For now, KY needs coal, but I hope they start to ween themselves off of it, because in not too many years, it will probably be almost a thing of the past.

It will be a thing of the past because that's what this administration and probably future administrations want. Not because it needs to be.

[TheRealVille]

That is a bunch of coal docks, but it is a power plant. I'm not sure how you could miss the boilers and cooling towers and say that it's not a plant.

I've worked at that plant many, many times. I wasn't talking about the AEP plant when I brought this(the piles of coal on 23) up. I've saw much bigger piles of coal at AEP, that's the reason I didn't include it.

[TheRealVille]

It will be a thing of the past because that's what this administration and probably future administrations want. Not because it needs to be.

About 90%, or more, of the world's scientists would disagree with you.

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

I've worked at that plant many, many times. I wasn't talking about the AEP plant when I brought this(the piles of coal on 23) up. I've saw much bigger piles of coal at AEP, that's the reason I didn't include it.

And what did you do there exactly?

[TheRealVille]

And what did you do there exactly?

Ran piping systems.

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

About 90%, or more, of the world's scientists would disagree with you.

Would they also disagree with me saying that coal isn't nearly the pollution producer that everyone tends to think? It's just another goldfish in a sea of pollution producers, especially with the regulations that we see today. Those so-called "scientists" were caught greatly exaggerating the energy pollution data that they "gathered".

Coal is singled out mainly because of the loud voice the tree huggers have against Mountain-top Removal.

[TheRealVille]

Would they also disagree with me saying that coal isn't nearly the pollution producer that everyone tends to think? It's just another goldfish in a sea of pollution producers, especially with the regulations that we see today. Those so-called "scientists" were caught greatly exaggerating the energy pollution data that they "gathered".

Coal is singled out mainly because of the loud voice the tree huggers have against Mountain-top Removal.

No argument there.

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

Ran piping systems.

So, if you still do work similar to this, wouldn't the future of your job independently ride on the coal industry's destiny?

[TheRealVille]

So, if you still do work similar to this, wouldn't the future of your job independently ride on the coal industry's destiny?

Not really. Whatever kind of energy might come along in the future, if coal dies, has to have the same piping systems to make it work. I do the same type of job in power plants, refineries, hospitals, schools, chemical plants, pharmaceutical plants, or nuclear power plants. Anything that has piping. I just finished a job for Patriot Coal, building a water treatment plant to clean selenium out of their ponds.

[MiddlesboroAlumni]

Not really. Whatever kind of energy might come along in the future, if coal dies, has to have the same piping systems to make it work. I do the same type of job in power plants, refineries, hospitals, schools, chemical plants, pharmaceutical plants, or nuclear power plants. Anything that has piping. I just finished a job for Patriot Coal, building a water treatment plant to clean selenium out of their ponds.

That's nice, but it kinda does depend on that destiny, RV. Without coal, the Appalachian region is done. You may find work elsewhere, but it will not be around here. I will wish no man to be out of work (even if they vote me out of work). If what I believe will soon happen happens, I wish all of you the best of luck because we will sure as heck need it.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Look at the giant high piles of coal down on rt 23 at Cattlettsburg, at all the coal docks. The most coal I have ever saw is piled there, right now.

Its when you dont see coal piled up is when business is booming.

[RunItUpTheGut]

How did all that coal get there this summer? They didn't have permits to mine it? And, it's not a plant, it's a bunch of coal docks. Btw, I'm glad that you are for keeping it clean.

There were 36 permits being held up by the EPA in KY when the coal rally happened a couple of months ago. Its more now. Thats fact.

[Granny Bear]

^ From experience, I know that it's extremely difficult to live up to the standards of the almighty one, TRV. Nobody can do it. nicker:

Awww, thought I HAD!!
Welcome to the fight MiddlesboroAlumni; I would love to have a synopsis from you, oh in about a month, of what you think about the debates and debaters on this board.

[TheRealVille]

Would they also disagree with me saying that coal isn't nearly the pollution producer that everyone tends to think? It's just another goldfish in a sea of pollution producers, especially with the regulations that we see today. Those so-called "scientists" were caught greatly exaggerating the energy pollution data that they "gathered".

Coal is singled out mainly because of the loud voice the tree huggers have against Mountain-top Removal.

I've always said that I didn't care if they made Kentucky as flat as Kansas.

[crazytaxidriver]

The attempt to go to natural gas and warmer than usual weather has taken demand for coal way down. Coal companies are allowed to mine what's left of their permits. But the EPA has vetoed releasing any new ones in ky and wva. I recently went back to work but I took a 5 dollar cut and less hours. The industry may be dying but it's still cheaper and easier to get to than most other types of energy. Unless we buy from somewhere.

[TheRealVille]

There were 36 permits being held up by the EPA in KY when the coal rally happened a couple of months ago. Its more now. Thats fact.

I looked through the website, and throughout the year many have been issued. Would these 36 have something to do with not meeting water standards? Why would they issue many throughout the year, and deny these 36?
http://minepermits.ky.gov/Pages/PermittingActions.aspx

[TheRealThing]

About 90%, or more, of the world's scientists would disagree with you.

Hogwash, the data indicating there has been any measurable global warming, be it a trend or otherwise, were cooked by liberal minded sky-is-falling, true believers. Somebody drilled an ice core, leaped to conclusions and the eco-doomsdayers have been complicitous toward compiling contrived data to support their madness ever since. Many notable scientists laugh at the tree huggers and the leaps of faith they are willing to make.

MiddlesboroAlumni is right on with his observations regarding the EPA. The green gastapo gone rabid. Since their conclusions about global warming must be accepted by faith rather than proven science, the whole environmental argument way more closely resembles a religious cult, than the conclusions of reputable scientists. And, may therefore be better characterized by the notorious forays of Hitler's Brown Shirts than the actions of American scientific community. Left wing poster boys like Al Gore (a proven gold digger) and Micheal Moore (a proven loon) serve as the face of reason for the sky-is-falling crowd.

[TheRealVille]

Hogwash, the data indicating there has been any measurable global warming, be it a trend or otherwise, were cooked by liberal minded sky-is-falling, true believers. Somebody drilled an ice core, leaped to conclusions and the eco-doomsdayers have been complicitous toward compiling contrived data to support their madness ever since. Many notable scientists laugh at the tree huggers and the leaps of faith they are willing to make.

MiddlesboroAlumni is right on with his observations regarding the EPA. The green gastapo gone rabid. Since their conclusions about global warming must be accepted by faith rather than proven science, the whole environmental argument way more closely resembles a religious cult, than the conclusions of reputable scientists. And, may therefore be better characterized by the notorious forays of Hitler's Brown Shirts than the actions of American scientific community. Left wing poster boys like Al Gore (a proven gold digger) and Micheal Moore (a proven loon) serve as the face of reason for the sky-is-falling crowd.

The scientific opinion on climate change is that the Earth's climate system is unequivocally warming, and it is more than 90% certain that humans are causing it through activities that increase concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, such as deforestation and burning fossil fuels.[1][2][3][4] This scientific consensus is expressed in synthesis reports, by scientific bodies of national or international standing, and by surveys of opinion among climate scientists. Individual scientists, universities, and laboratories contribute to the overall scientific opinion via their peer-reviewed publications, and the areas of collective agreement and relative certainty are summarised in these high level reports and surveys.
National and international science academies and scientific societies have assessed the current scientific opinion, in particular on recent global warming. These assessments have largely followed or endorsed the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) position of January 2001 which states:
An increasing body of observations gives a collective picture of a warming world and other changes in the climate system... There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.[5]
The main conclusions of the IPCC on global warming were the following:
The global average surface temperature has risen 0.6 ± 0.2 °C since the late 19th century, and 0.17 °C per decade in the last 30 years.[6]
"There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities", in particular emissions of the greenhouse gases carbon dioxide and methane.[7]
If greenhouse gas emissions continue the warming will also continue, with temperatures projected to increase by 1.4 °C to 5.8 °C between 1990 and 2100. Accompanying this temperature increase will be increases in some types of extreme weather and a projected sea level rise.[8] On balance the impacts of global warming will be significantly negative, especially for larger values of warming.[9]
No scientific body of national or international standing has maintained a dissenting opinion; the last was the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, which in 2007 updated its 1999 statement rejecting the likelihood of human influence on recent climate with its current non-committal position.[10][11] Some other organizations, primarily those focusing on geology, also hold non-committal positions. There are also groups of individuals outside national or international organizations that have expressed their dissenting opinions and counterarguments in venues such as public petitions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_...ate_change

Forget the four out of five dentists who recommend Trident…. Try the 97 out of 100 scientists that believe in man-made climate change.

This data comes from a new survey out this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The study found that 97 percent of scientific experts agree that climate change is "very likely" caused mainly by human activity.

The report is based on questions posed to 1,372 scientists. Nearly all the experts agreed that it is "very likely that anthropogenic greenhouse gases have been responsible for most of the unequivocal warming of the Earth's average global temperature in the second half of the twentieth century."

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...LaLlI4RrOE

Several subsequent studies confirm that “...the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes”. (Doran 2009). In other words, more than 95% of scientists working in the disciplines contributing to studies of our climate, accept that climate change is almost certainly being caused by human activities.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-w...sensus.htm

I can go on and on, but you get the gist.