[Fly Like a Duck]

...chances are, those are your winners.

1A- all four teams left are Indy.

2A- 3 of 4 are Indy or Private. Caldwell County is the odd man out.

3A- none are Indy or Private. No privates by default, bc there aren't any in 3A. There are also fewer Indy's in 3A than any of the "small school" (1A-3A) classes. Only 5 in 3A.

4A- 2 of 4. Highlands the Indy. Lex Cath the private. The two other schools, Collins (in Shelby Co, just outside the Louisville Metro) and Warren East (in BG/Warren County with well over 100K population).

5A- Only one Indy, Bowling Green. They are also the only Independent in 5A. There aren't any Privates in 5A either.

6A- that one Private school and 2 other Jefferson County schools.

..and, peoplethink demographic factors don't matter.

[MustangSally]

You do know that Independent schools are public schools?

[Fly Like a Duck]

Fully aware of that.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I dont ever see the distinction in the argument of "indy" schools.

Pretty much independent schools are the city schools within a smaller county and they are no different than public school.

I can see an argument against Privates, but never independents.

[Fly Like a Duck]

There is one. And it's not just this year. It's clear as day to me and always had been. I guess you just have to have had experiences at both to really understand the difference.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
I still dont understand what your saying.

Here in Whitley County alone, Wburg and Corbin are both independent schools while Whitley is not, yet there is no difference other than tuition cost if you live out of district, but usually the recprical agreement takes care of that.

[Fly Like a Duck]

Ill put it like this. I heard a very successful coach in this state, who happened to have great success at a few schools say, "If you see a lot of barns and a big FFA at small school in a small population community, it's not a good sign for football."

Point is....at the vast majority of your "county" schools across the state, unless they are schools that are located in very populated heavy areas, struggle to get partcipation from kids who are actually out in the county (lets say, much past 8 miles from school and/or the main town). Some "county" schools are the exception, for example Henderson County (one county, one school, but in a town 28,000) and Scott County (one county, one school, and a town of 30,000).

How many kids that play for Williamsburg or Corbin have to drive 8 miles to school? How many kids from Danville and Someset have to do the same? What about Ft. Thomas Highlands? None, at least not any of them who live inside the actual district. Why? Because the district lines don't extend that far.

I know a couple "county" schools in the state, one who is 2A and the other is 3A. Both have very respectable programs. Not great, but better than average. Both of them have about 45 kids on the team grades 9-12 and neither of them have more than 5 kids on their teams who live past 5 miles from the school. They are basically
"________ (insert town here) football" @ "___________ County High School". That, in a nutshell is the point I'm trying to make.

[Fly Like a Duck]

^
I still dont understand what your saying.

Here in Whitley County alone, Wburg and Corbin are both independent schools while Whitley is not, yet there is no difference other than tuition cost if you live out of district, but usually the recprical agreement takes care of that.

...has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
Then tell us your point.

[Fly Like a Duck]

^^Read the post above the one you were pointing to.

Another, thing, who has longer history's of football? Corbin or Whitley County? Mayfield or Graves County? Paducah Tilghman or Heath (granted, Heath is merging with Lone Oak and Reidland to for McCracken County, but you get my drift)? Somerset or Pulaski County? Danville or Boyle County (granted, Boyle's success has been better the last 10-12 years, some, not much. Boyle has won 5 while Danville has won 3 Titles in that time span)?

I'm guessing that several small, independent (non football playing schools at that) merged together to form Whitely County, correct? Williamsburg was the only football playing school before the consolodation of Whitley County HS, or no?

Starting to see where I'm going with this?

[Fly Like a Duck]

And, might I add that I'm a small town/county school fan. So, considering that, this opinion goes against the grain, but is totally unbiased.

[PaintsvilleTigerfan]

How many 1a schools arent independant?

[BellCoFaithful]

I don't see a point with the indy argument, not at all to be honest. To be completely honest, I don't really care if it's an indy school, a county school, a public school, a private school, an all boy school, it doesn't really matter what kind of school it is. If that school is the best team in their class then god bless 'em. Every other school, if you can't beat that private school, too bad, you're not the best in your class. It's really that simple to me, either you can lay your claim to be the best, or you can't. That claim is impossible to make if a team doesn't even have a shot at playing in that specific class because they happen to be a private school in a class full of public schools.

[Fly Like a Duck]

How many 1a schools arent independant?

Only a handful or so aren't. Which would make my point backfire.

But....there is only one Independent in in 5A (BG and look where they are). There aren't many in 4A, nor private. But look who is there (Highlands and LexCath).

In 2A, it's probably 50/50. Or close. Three out of those four are Indy or Private.

All I'm merely saying is that Independents, Privates and/or "county" schools from heavily populated (let's say towns/counties with 30K+) are your football powers. Privates (for the most part) are a given, but most don't think about Indy's and or county schools in heavily populated areas are your powers.

[Fly Like a Duck]

I don't see a point with the indy argument, not at all to be honest. To be completely honest, I don't really care if it's an indy school, a county school, a public school, a private school, an all boy school, it doesn't really matter what kind of school it is. If that school is the best team in their class then god bless 'em. Every other school, if you can't beat that private school, too bad, you're not the best in your class. It's really that simple to me, either you can lay your claim to be the best, or you can't. That claim is impossible to make if a team doesn't even have a shot at playing in that specific class because they happen to be a private school in a class full of public schools.

You are way off what I'm talking about.

[BellCoFaithful]

You are way off what I'm talking about.

You are basically saying the only schools with a chance to win are privates/independents, and I'm saying who cares what they are, anyone has a shot to win. Also factoring in a lot of peoples opinions that privates should be separated from public.

[BigBad]

I do think private schools need to play in their own division, I know some will disagree but that's just how I see it.

We played a private school last year and after the game was over they gave our best player a packet trying to get him to enroll in their school, they also made it clear that they had scholarships to cover his tuition.

Thats not an equal playing field.

[BellCoFaithful]

I do think private schools need to play in their own division, I know some will disagree but that's just how I see it.

We played a private school last year and after the game was over they gave our best player a packet trying to get him to enroll in their school, they also made it clear that they had scholarships to cover his tuition.

Thats not an equal playing field.

If that's the case, how will separating them help? They can still steal away your best players, immediately making your team a little, or a lot worse. If you can't play with and beat the best teams in your class, then you aren't the best. Take it on the chin, work harder, and move on to the next game/season. It's that simple to me.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^^Read the post above the one you were pointing to.

Another, thing, who has longer history's of football? Corbin or Whitley County? Mayfield or Graves County? Paducah Tilghman or Heath (granted, Heath is merging with Lone Oak and Reidland to for McCracken County, but you get my drift)? Somerset or Pulaski County? Danville or Boyle County (granted, Boyle's success has been better the last 10-12 years, some, not much. Boyle has won 5 while Danville has won 3 Titles in that time span)?

I'm guessing that several small, independent (non football playing schools at that) merged together to form Whitely County, correct? Williamsburg was the only football playing school before the consolodation of Whitley County HS, or no?

Starting to see where I'm going with this?

Yes, Whitley has only been playing around 40 years while the other two are closing in on a 100.
I understand what you are saying. I see your point now, but its been so long since most schools in this state have merged that im not sure it matter anymore.

[Fly Like a Duck]

I think it still lingers and will forever in many places.

Demographic factors just play such a huge part. Before anything else (administration, little league programs, etc.).

Just my food for thought for the day.

[Fly Like a Duck]

If that's the case, how will separating them help? They can still steal away your best players, immediately making your team a little, or a lot worse. If you can't play with and beat the best teams in your class, then you aren't the best. Take it on the chin, work harder, and move on to the next game/season. It's that simple to me.

I'm not advocating separating.

I'm just pointing out the wills from the wonts.

[30 going on 40]

I do think private schools need to play in their own division, I know some will disagree but that's just how I see it.

We played a private school last year and after the game was over they gave our best player a packet trying to get him to enroll in their school, they also made it clear that they had scholarships to cover his tuition.

Thats not an equal playing field.

Report the school.

[Fly Like a Duck]

You are basically saying the only schools with a chance to win are privates/independents, and I'm saying who cares what they are, anyone has a shot to win. Also factoring in a lot of peoples opinions that privates should be separated from public.

Sure all schools have a shot. So, does a 3 legged horse if it ever chose to run in the KY Derby.

[Fly Like a Duck]

You are basically saying the only schools with a chance to win are privates/independents, and I'm saying who cares what they are, anyone has a shot to win. Also factoring in a lot of peoples opinions that privates should be separated from public.

Or "county" schools from heavily populated areas.

Granted, there are exceptions to every rule.

[Panther Thunder]

Let's give everyone a trophy so everyone can be happy!

[Fly Like a Duck]

Let's give everyone a trophy so everyone can be happy!

Not saying that either.

Truly an unbiased observation. A sobering one for many, but unbiased.

[charlie22]

Not saying that either.

Truly an unbiased observation. A sobering one for many, but unbiased.

I think there is some evidence supporting your position.

However, I think there is contra evidence too. Look at Boyle County's success of a few years back. It beat privates and Indys during that run. Can one attribute 5 straight championships to a fluke? I don't think so. It beat an Indy for a state championship in 09 also (wasn't Lone Oak an Indy?).

Personally, I think the biggest reason for the more consistent winning by the Indys and the privates is football tradition and longer term commitment to football. Indys like Highlands, Beechwood, Belfry, and BG have long traditions of football success.

People like to discredit the impact of past success on current games, but they are mistaken. It greatly impacts the number of kids getting out of the hall and onto the field. That impacts current games. It greatly impacts effort and commitment during the off season. That impacts current games. It greatly impacts administration and community support (financially and otherwise). That impacts current games.

A lot of privates survive and thrive based on athletic support. Athletic success attracts the tuition paying students needed to keep the doors open and keeps the private school administrators employed. Because football has no roster limits, smart private school administrators realize the importance of football success. It is very important to them and they have put the resources into the football program needed for consistent success. County school administrators have no such concerns. If the football team does well, its great. But if the football team stinks, they'll still have their jobs and the doors will still stay open.

Furthermore, a lot of the Indys and private schools are in areas where football has a much greater importance to the community. Football is THE sport in Cincinnati. That bleeds over to N. Ky. From what I know of Louisville, football is also very important and has been for a long time. That makes a huge difference in the expectations in the community and the school.

I don't feel that that is the case for much of rural Kentucky. It's changing a bit, but basketball was and probably still is THE sport for most of the county schools. That's where the emphasis of the administrators and kids goes. No surprise when rural county schools regularly make it to the Sweet 16 and make it deep into the tournament (or win it), but schools like Highlands, Beechwood, Belfry, etc do not. If demographics was the determining factor to athletic success, why wouldn't Highlands or Beechwood or Belfry have the same success in basketball (or baseball) that they do in football?

Not saying your demographics theory is completely off base (as I do agree that it is tougher to get kids who live way out in the county to every practice and to every off season conditioning/lifting session, which impacts game results), but there are a lot of other factors too. Factors that I think have a greater impact than the number of miles a kid lives from the high school.

[Fly Like a Duck]

I think there is some evidence supporting your position.

However, I think there is contra evidence too. Look at Boyle County's success of a few years back. It beat privates and Indys during that run. Can one attribute 5 straight championships to a fluke? I don't think so. It beat an Indy for a state championship in 09 also (wasn't Lone Oak an Indy?).

Personally, I think the biggest reason for the more consistent winning by the Indys and the privates is football tradition and longer term commitment to football. Indys like Highlands, Beechwood, Belfry, and BG have long traditions of football success.

People like to discredit the impact of past success on current games, but they are mistaken. It greatly impacts the number of kids getting out of the hall and onto the field. That impacts current games. It greatly impacts effort and commitment during the off season. That impacts current games. It greatly impacts administration and community support (financially and otherwise). That impacts current games.

A lot of privates survive and thrive based on athletic support. Athletic success attracts the tuition paying students needed to keep the doors open and keeps the private school administrators employed. Because football has no roster limits, smart private school administrators realize the importance of football success. It is very important to them and they have put the resources into the football program needed for consistent success. County school administrators have no such concerns. If the football team does well, its great. But if the football team stinks, they'll still have their jobs and the doors will still stay open.

Furthermore, a lot of the Indys and private schools are in areas where football has a much greater importance to the community. Football is THE sport in Cincinnati. That bleeds over to N. Ky. From what I know of Louisville, football is also very important and has been for a long time. That makes a huge difference in the expectations in the community and the school.

I don't feel that that is the case for much of rural Kentucky. It's changing a bit, but basketball was and probably still is THE sport for most of the county schools. That's where the emphasis of the administrators and kids goes. No surprise when rural county schools regularly make it to the Sweet 16 and make it deep into the tournament (or win it), but schools like Highlands, Beechwood, Belfry, etc do not. If demographics was the determining factor to athletic success, why wouldn't Highlands or Beechwood or Belfry have the same success in basketball (or baseball) that they do in football?

Not saying your demographics theory is completely off base (as I do agree that it is tougher to get kids who live way out in the county to every practice and to every off season conditioning/lifting session, which impacts game results), but there are a lot of other factors too. Factors that I think have a greater impact than the number of miles a kid lives from the high school.

Totally agree with everything you said!

Boyle County/Danville is actually one of those places with considerable population....I think it's over 30K. Back to the whole "county" school with a decently populated area. But, I would also put Boyle in the category of being exceptions to the norm as well.

[charlie22]

I do think private schools need to play in their own division, I know some will disagree but that's just how I see it.

We played a private school last year and after the game was over they gave our best player a packet trying to get him to enroll in their school, they also made it clear that they had scholarships to cover his tuition.
Thats not an equal playing field.

Consider me a doubting Thomas at this point concerning the veracity of the bolded statement. But perhaps I can be convinced if you provide some specifics. What private school allegedly did what you claim? What was the name of your best player? Did the player tell his coach what happened and did he give the packet to his coach? Did the coach report it to the KHSAA?

[AtlPirateFan]

Charlie22. Correction to something you posted.

Belfry is a County School. Along with Shelby Valley, East Ridge, Pike County Central and Phelps High School in Pike County.

Pikeville High School is the only Independent in Pike County.