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10-30-2012, 11:03 PM
If you think Cal is the same coach that he was 3 years ago you have not been watching UK much! UK has tons of basketball histroy and CAL is student of the game and has studied Coach RUPP! Those dribble hand-off plays set up for Brandon Knight,, you guys really think that is the dribble drive?????? Look here guys UK hired Cal because he was the best recruiter and respected the histroy of UK basketball. Cal now has wealth of information on hand from the master himself!! Rupp's last title came in 1958 when WILT, JERRY WEST amd the Elgin Baylor were all still in college. We all have heard Cal talk about the KENTUCKY EFFECT. HE IS 12 and 2 vs KU, UL, IU, UNC and 7-1 vs the Gators, that is what the Kentucky EFFECT is about!!!!!!
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10-31-2012, 09:35 AM
outdoorsman43 Wrote:Now Dusty, come on ole friend. When people don't like someone, they're not going to give them any credit when something goes right, but they're going to blast them when one thing goes slightly wrong. You may not like the man. But you have to give credit where credit is due. Is it not hard to get these young talented players to put aside their egos and play tough in-your-face defense? Has it not been hard to do the things he has done?
If you want to throw something Brad Stevens has done at Butler; could he have been in the same position as John Calipari and do everything he has done for this University in three years? I'm going to strongly suggest 'no'. And Butler didn't exactly have "no-names". Last time I checked Gordon Hayward, Shelvin Mack, and Matt Howard were pretty darn good players.
I didn't get this started to get you worked up there ole bird lol.
And by the way! When did "bullshit" start becoming legal on here? lol
Ahh, ODM, where have you been... Had you been around, you would have known there have been many changes to the site, and gutter talk is one of them
nicker:As for Brad Stevens, thank you for helping make a good argument for me.
"Last time I checked Gordon Hayward, Shelvin Mack, and Matt Howard were pretty darn good players."
You are 100% right, they are all pretty good players, but they didn't register on anybody's top 10 Blue Chip recruits now did they? I'd say those young men were developed far more to get them to the point of competing for 2 national titles. Right??? Add Anthony Davis and MKG to that group, would they have won the title those two years with those three at Butler? Brad Stevens just can't recruit, so he has to do it the old-fashioned way
Don't get me wrong, I've always said, I am a Wildcat fan first and foremost, and always will be. I've always said I could care less how it's down as long as banners fill the rafters! I'm NOT calling for changes and no one can say I ever have! But it does not mean I have to see things with Blue tinted glasses either :Shaking:
10-31-2012, 01:02 PM
I have always thought that he can coach and for the people who still say he can't are full of ****. Not many coaches can get all the best players and have them buy into a system that their numbers are low. Anthony Davis and MKG were 4th and 5th on shots for the team. Most of your best players want to be 'the guy' and he gets the guys to check their ego's at the door.
10-31-2012, 01:58 PM
anyone still trying to make the case that Cal can't coach, is simply indicting themselves as a basketball ignoramus. Despite the fact that he has recruited overwhelming talent,
he's not only molded that talent into a common goal, and gotten stars to by into the team concept and buy in to playing incredible defense; but ALSO proven perfectly adept at the X and O part of the game. He may not be the pure tactician that Knight was in his hey day, but he's not going to be outcoached by anyone on the sidelines today either.
he's not only molded that talent into a common goal, and gotten stars to by into the team concept and buy in to playing incredible defense; but ALSO proven perfectly adept at the X and O part of the game. He may not be the pure tactician that Knight was in his hey day, but he's not going to be outcoached by anyone on the sidelines today either.
10-31-2012, 02:07 PM
Stardust Wrote:^ Bullshit vundy - you now tell me HOW he has all of a sudden become a GREAT coach? He won the title with the best talent in the country. How many titles has he LOST with the best talent in the country? Tell me how he lost with UMass? Tell me how he lost with Memphis? Tell me how he lost with UK's first team? In all cases, he had had the best talent in all three finals, he lost to inferior teams, all squandered away because of coaching in each of those games! Those games games were all cluster F*** coaching jobs, and everyone who has defended his ability as an X's and O's guy knows it. I honestly did not even know about this thread. I do think this thread is laughable! He won last season because his players were far superior to any other teams. He had the #1 and #2 player in the NBA draft. Even you could have couldn't have screwed that team up!
Do you deny that, because if you do, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground! No vundy, as usual, you are about as wrong you can get!!!! Tell me, what has he done in a Big game that required his ability as an X's and O's coach that he has acutally won? I have always said he is the best recruiter in the nation, hands down! But put a team in the Final Four with a team of no-names! Could Coach Cal do that?????????????? You and I both know that answer! Do you think Butler's coach could have coached UK's team to a title last season????? Do you honestly think Cal could have coached Butler to two final fours - Laughable!
How did he lose with UMass? Are you seriously trying to say that UMass team
had the superior talent? COME ON? Camby was probably the best overall player on the court, but UK had far superior overall talent. And while he probably did have superior talent at Memphis over Kansas, when he went to ot IN THE FINAL, it was a slim margin not overwhelming. That team lost because of a flaw, poor free throw shooting, that could not be coached away. Calling a game he ABSOLUTELY SHOULD have lost, and a game he should have won 6 out of 10 times, cluster*&^% coaching just exhibits a MASSIVE IGNORANCE.
Call may not be Wooden or Rupp, but he doesn't take a back seat to
anyone on the opposing sideline in today's game.
10-31-2012, 04:04 PM
highspeedsteel Wrote:If you think Cal is the same coach that he was 3 years ago you have not been watching UK much! UK has tons of basketball histroy and CAL is student of the game and has studied Coach RUPP! Those dribble hand-off plays set up for Brandon Knight,, you guys really think that is the dribble drive?????? Look here guys UK hired Cal because he was the best recruiter and respected the histroy of UK basketball. Cal now has wealth of information on hand from the master himself!! Rupp's last title came in 1958 when WILT, JERRY WEST amd the Elgin Baylor were all still in college. We all have heard Cal talk about the KENTUCKY EFFECT. HE IS 12 and 2 vs KU, UL, IU, UNC and 7-1 vs the Gators, that is what the Kentucky EFFECT is about!!!!!!
Don't you think it's a little more likely that Cal has ALWAYS been
a better coach than his rep suggests? Do you think he only became a student of the game here? Or that said wealth of information is only available
when you're AT Kentucky? Certainly he's leveraged UK's advantages for all
their worth. And hopefully he is a better coach than he was 3 years ago,
as no doubt Duke fans hope about coach K for instance. But maybe,
JUST MAYBE, the improvement isn't so marked. Maybe, just MAYBE,
folks are seeing that Cal was a pretty good coach all along.
10-31-2012, 06:25 PM
I'll admit I was wrong. Obviously I'm a believer now lmao.
10-31-2012, 06:28 PM
^ Thank you!
10-31-2012, 08:10 PM
As Aerosmith would say ODM, Dream On!!!!
10-31-2012, 08:21 PM
Stardust Wrote:^ Bullshit vundy - you now tell me HOW he has all of a sudden become a GREAT coach? He won the title with the best talent in the country. How many titles has he LOST with the best talent in the country? Tell me how he lost with UMass? Tell me how he lost with Memphis? Tell me how he lost with UK's first team? In all cases, he had had the best talent in all three finals, he lost to inferior teams, all squandered away because of coaching in each of those games! Those games games were all cluster F*** coaching jobs, and everyone who has defended his ability as an X's and O's guy knows it. I honestly did not even know about this thread. I do think this thread is laughable! He won last season because his players were far superior to any other teams. He had the #1 and #2 player in the NBA draft. Even you could have couldn't have screwed that team up!
Do you deny that, because if you do, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground! No vundy, as usual, you are about as wrong you can get!!!! Tell me, what has he done in a Big game that required his ability as an X's and O's coach that he has acutally won? I have always said he is the best recruiter in the nation, hands down! But put a team in the Final Four with a team of no-names! Could Coach Cal do that?????????????? You and I both know that answer! Do you think Butler's coach could have coached UK's team to a title last season????? Do you honestly think Cal could have coached Butler to two final fours - Laughable!
Man, you are full of it, as usual. Just because you don't like the guy doesn't mean you have to not give him the credit he's deserved. You easily highlight games he's lost, but ignore all the big games he's won. Again, as usual.
What about the MSU game last year? Both Vandy games? The Indiana Sweet 16 game? Both Loserville games? Hell, even the National Championship. That's not Ben going back to the 10-11 and 09-10 seasons!
.
10-31-2012, 08:33 PM
^ As usual???? What a joke!
10-31-2012, 09:19 PM
^ MAN, I got pulled into this thread, I didn't start it! So, if someone wants my honest OPINION, then you get it! I don't have to LIKE the coach to LOVE the team! I disliked Cal long before he ever became a UK faceman, thus I have stayed TRUE to my feelings and opinions! I didn't suck up like everyone else who hated him for his UMass days and pissy attitude about UK and Pitino. Now that his hat has changed, I have said I will forever support him winning 10 national championships, but do I have to suck his teet to enjoy the schools success?????????
There - MAN:pondering:
There - MAN:pondering:
10-31-2012, 11:55 PM
Whoever said you had to like him? I'm just saying give credit where it's due and if you're going to focus on all the bad games, give the games where he's made great adjustments that have won us the game the attention they deserve, like the ones I mentioned, and many in the 10-11 season.
.
11-01-2012, 01:13 AM
Observing Wrote:Don't you think it's a little more likely that Cal has ALWAYS been
a better coach than his rep suggests? Do you think he only became a student of the game here? Or that said wealth of information is only available
when you're AT Kentucky? Certainly he's leveraged UK's advantages for all
their worth. And hopefully he is a better coach than he was 3 years ago,
as no doubt Duke fans hope about coach K for instance. But maybe,
JUST MAYBE, the improvement isn't so marked. Maybe, just MAYBE,
folks are seeing that Cal was a pretty good coach all along.
Cal was weak in half court offense, that was one of the main reasons his first team at UK didn't win a title. Cal started using parts of coach RUPP's old guard around offense in 2011 with Brandon Knight. Rupp's offense is similar to the dribble drive because it is a read an react offense. By studing coach Rupps methods and system Cal was able to improve his own system and methods. Just being at Kentucky has improved Cal as a coach. Joe B Hall is the man that suggested Cal study Rupp's offense. If you don't believe me just study game tape and you will see. The "Kentucky effect" that Cal spoke of will become clear to you. So just being at UK had helped Cal become a better X & O coach.
11-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Stardust Wrote:^ MAN, I got pulled into this thread, I didn't start it! So, if someone wants my honest OPINION, then you get it! I don't have to LIKE the coach to LOVE the team! I disliked Cal long before he ever became a UK faceman, thus I have stayed TRUE to my feelings and opinions! I didn't suck up like everyone else who hated him for his UMass days and pissy attitude about UK and Pitino. Now that his hat has changed, I have said I will forever support him winning 10 national championships, but do I have to suck his teet to enjoy the schools success?????????
There - MAN:pondering:
"Liking" is irrelevant to the discussion. I can't stand Roy Williams, and
despise coach K. Both are EXCEPTIONAL coaches. I HATE the NY
Yankees, they have been a fantastic baseball team for 15 years now.
You just seem to not be able to make a sound evalutaion of his ability
because you personally didslike him.
11-01-2012, 11:04 AM
highspeedsteel Wrote:Cal was weak in half court offense, that was one of the main reasons his first team at UK didn't win a title. Cal started using parts of coach RUPP's old guard around offense in 2011 with Brandon Knight. Rupp's offense is similar to the dribble drive because it is a read an react offense. By studing coach Rupps methods and system Cal was able to improve his own system and methods. Just being at Kentucky has improved Cal as a coach. Joe B Hall is the man that suggested Cal study Rupp's offense. If you don't believe me just study game tape and you will see. The "Kentucky effect" that Cal spoke of will become clear to you. So just being at UK had helped Cal become a better X & O coach.
The "Kentucky effect" is the cache of the name and tradition, and comes in to play in recruiting and intimidation, NOT in his coaching. Yes tactics
and inspiration can be drawn from Rupp(and other coach's) styles, but it
is not necessary to be coaching AT Ky to do so. It's great that he studies
and adopts from other great coaches, but he's always done that.
And NO, Cal was NOT weak in half court offense. The 2010 team, like
his next 2 teams, was dominated by youth and inexperience. And UNLIKE
the next 2 teams did not have good outside shooters. All 3 teams have needed time to learn as the seasons wore on.
The example you offer of the Knight led offense is a very GOOD example of Cal's coaching acumen, playing to the strengths of his material. The Memphis Rose team was perfectly suited to his Dribble drive offense. His 10 UK squad was not, and played to its strength of a post game. That weakness unfortunately bit them in the backside when WVU had an insane game against them.
Cal has done an EXCELLENT job here each season, of suting his game to the personnel, instead of forcing the personnel to suit one scheme. And THAT speaks volumes about his ability. There are many very good coaches, who are enslaved to their own system, and can't adapt.
I'm not going to claim that Cal is the reincarnation of the love child
of Naismith, Allen and Wooden. But it is ASSININE to try to claim
he's always just rolled the ball out to NBA types, and only learned to
coach a little bit the last season or two. And one final point, something
that Dean Smith never learned, and really DID cost him some titles, is;
that sometimes when you DO have overwhelming talent, it's GOOD
coaching to sit back and LET THEM PLAY.
11-01-2012, 07:19 PM
Observing Wrote:The "Kentucky effect" is the cache of the name and tradition, and comes in to play in recruiting and intimidation, NOT in his coaching. Yes tactics
and inspiration can be drawn from Rupp(and other coach's) styles, but it
is not necessary to be coaching AT Ky to do so. It's great that he studies
and adopts from other great coaches, but he's always done that.
And NO, Cal was NOT weak in half court offense. The 2010 team, like
his next 2 teams, was dominated by youth and inexperience. And UNLIKE
the next 2 teams did not have good outside shooters. All 3 teams have needed time to learn as the seasons wore on.
The example you offer of the Knight led offense is a very GOOD example of Cal's coaching acumen, playing to the strengths of his material. The Memphis Rose team was perfectly suited to his Dribble drive offense. His 10 UK squad was not, and played to its strength of a post game. That weakness unfortunately bit them in the backside when WVU had an insane game against them.
Cal has done an EXCELLENT job here each season, of suting his game to the personnel, instead of forcing the personnel to suit one scheme. And THAT speaks volumes about his ability. There are many very good coaches, who are enslaved to their own system, and can't adapt.
I'm not going to claim that Cal is the reincarnation of the love child
of Naismith, Allen and Wooden. But it is ASSININE to try to claim
he's always just rolled the ball out to NBA types, and only learned to
coach a little bit the last season or two. And one final point, something
that Dean Smith never learned, and really DID cost him some titles, is;
that sometimes when you DO have overwhelming talent, it's GOOD
coaching to sit back and LET THEM PLAY.
IMO Cal was a good coach when he took the job at UK. IMO he is a Great coach now and IMO just being at UK has help him. At UK Cal doesn't have to sale the program, he doesn't have worry about getting his team on TV or if the fans are going to come out and watch home games, all he has to worry about at UK is recruiting and coaching HIS TEAM. The things that you stated above about Cal are true for the most part but I disagree about the 2010 team and the statment about half court offense, if you have followed Cal any before he took the UK job you would know that he started running the dribble drive for a reason. If you ever studied coaching philosophy you would know that Coach Rupps basketball has stood the test of time. For some reason younger UK fans think coach Rupp taught some '"Old fashion" "Slow Down" type of basketball but in reality his teams were fast break teams that run the other teams into the ground and he was a master teacher of the man to man defense and his half court system was based on ball handlers and was light years ahead of what other coachs were doing at that time. The "Kentucky Effect" is something that coach Rupp built and if you ever heard Cal speak about coach Rupps home game winning steak you would know that he spent a large amount of time studing RUPP.
11-01-2012, 08:42 PM
I won't even try to defend my earlier comments. I have already admitted that I was mistaken about Calipari's coaching ability. What sold me has been how he has been able to get so many players who were used to scoring lots of points and being the focus of attention to play unselfishly and to play at least as hard defensively as they do when they have the ball in their hands. He made a believer of me a couple of years ago.
11-02-2012, 12:39 AM
Hoot Gibson Wrote:I won't even try to defend my earlier comments. I have already admitted that I was mistaken about Calipari's coaching ability. What sold me has been how he has been able to get so many players who were used to scoring lots of points and being the focus of attention to play unselfishly and to play at least as hard defensively as they do when they have the ball in their hands. He made a believer of me a couple of years ago.
Some of us can admit when we are wrong, I guess.
nicker:
11-02-2012, 12:39 AM
Observing Wrote:"Liking" is irrelevant to the discussion. I can't stand Roy Williams, and
despise coach K. Both are EXCEPTIONAL coaches. I HATE the NY
Yankees, they have been a fantastic baseball team for 15 years now.
You just seem to not be able to make a sound evalutaion of his ability
because you personally didslike him.
Exactly what I mean with my argument!
11-02-2012, 11:23 AM
He is a very good coach. Not ready to be placed in the upper tier yet though. UK has more players in the NBA than anyone else and that shows the eye Cal has for talent. But with only one championship on the last 15 years and all those NBA players being on the roster, work still needs to be done.
11-02-2012, 05:26 PM
Stardust Wrote:As Aerosmith would say ODM, Dream On!!!!Speaking of Areosmith, I got me some damn good seats for their show in Columbus this month. :biggrin:
11-02-2012, 08:47 PM
A little shameless Aerosmith plug, Dusty. Joe Perry uses my friend's amps. Little Walter tube amps.
[Image: http://www.littlewaltertubeamps.com/imag...100883.jpg]
[Image: http://www.littlewaltertubeamps.com/imag...100883.jpg]
11-02-2012, 11:13 PM
^ Dog! I just looked at them this morning. We are talking about going, haven't dropped the dime yet. I'll let you know as soon as we make up our mind.
11-03-2012, 07:45 PM
Stardust Wrote:^ Dog! I just looked at them this morning. We are talking about going, haven't dropped the dime yet. I'll let you know as soon as we make up our mind.I guess one could say that there is one "degree" of separation between Joe and me. It a damn big degree, but still only one. :hilarious: Let me know if you go, maybe we could have a drink somewhere that night. A buddy of mine, and our wifes are going, and we are staying that night.
12-01-2012, 02:25 PM
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12-01-2012, 02:51 PM
outdoorsman43 Wrote::lmao::Clap::thatsfunn:please:How's Cal doing when he has a mediocre team, against some of the mediocre, unranked teams this year?
12-01-2012, 03:46 PM
You were saying, ODM43?
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