[RunItUpTheGut]

^
Surface mining has went to the pot.
Goodluck trying to get a permit for that right now.
Ive been trying to help a certain coal company get a permit in Whitley County for almost a year now and i dont see it happening.

[TheRealVille]

^
Surface mining has went to the pot.
Goodluck trying to get a permit for that right now.
Ive been trying to help a certain coal company get a permit in Whitley County for almost a year now and i dont see it happening.

It would be a good time for some of the surface guys to train to go underground.

BTW, I'm all for coal mining, as long as it's mined clean and burned clean. But as attested to the company that I am working on their property, building selenium filtering plants, coal isn't doing such a great job protecting itself. Patriot is spending 300 million on these plants to clean up their mess.

[TheRealThing]

It would be a good time for some of the surface guys to train to go underground.

BTW, I'm all for coal mining, as long as it's mined clean and burned clean. But as attested to the company that I am working on their property, building selenium filtering plants, coal isn't doing such a great job protecting itself. Patriot is spending 300 million on these plants to clean up their mess.

"Already, China uses more coal than the United States, the European Union and Japan combined. And it has increased coal consumption 14 percent in each of the past two years in the broadest industrialization ever. Every week to 10 days, another coal-fired power plant opens somewhere in China that is big enough to serve all the households in Dallas or San Diego."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/busine...wanted=all

If you would care to read this article published in the New York Times, you will see how ridiculous the tree hugger agenda really is. China will tell you what you can do with your save the earth talk. Though G20 summits are always characterized by giddy anticipation of world cooperation by environmentalists, little by way of cooperation is the norm, with more than a few backing out of attending at all. As a matter of fact, the only country that has taken any meaningful sacraficial steps in the direction of cleaning up our planet, is the US. The US by the way, already had the cleanest industrial pollutant record. So the guys that were already 'doing it right' are now closing coal fired plants which, by comparison, are no where near as destructive to the environment as say those in China. Chicken Little has ascended to power and the American public is being subjugated to the green ideologue's imaginary "sky is falling", doomsday scenario.

Seriously, what happened to common sense? There are any number of sources for naturally occuring green house gases out there. Volcanoes produce an enormous amount of CO2 along with rivers, lakes, oceans and all living things, Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas. It is part of the water cycle and is always present as the earth's bodies of water contiually evaporate. But, I digress.

Everybody else on the planet is just playing along with this stuff. Booming foreign economies will certainly not be putting on the brakes for the sake of the whims of tree huggers.

[TheRealVille]

"Already, China uses more coal than the United States, the European Union and Japan combined. And it has increased coal consumption 14 percent in each of the past two years in the broadest industrialization ever. Every week to 10 days, another coal-fired power plant opens somewhere in China that is big enough to serve all the households in Dallas or San Diego."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/busine...wanted=all

If you would care to read this article published in the New York Times, you will see how ridiculous the tree hugger agenda really is. China will tell you what you can do with your save the earth talk. Though G20 summits are always characterized by giddy anticipation of world cooperation by environmentalists, little by way of cooperation is the norm, with more than a few backing out of attending at all. As a matter of fact, the only country that has taken any meaningful sacraficial steps in the direction of cleaning up our planet, is the US. The US by the way, already had the cleanest industrial pollutant record. So the guys that were already 'doing it right' are now closing coal fired plants which, by comparison, are no where near as destructive to the environment as say those in China. Chicken Little has ascended to power and the American public is being subjugated to the green ideologue's imaginary "sky is falling", doomsday scenario.

Seriously, what happened to common sense? There are any number of sources for naturally occuring green house gases out there. Volcanoes produce an enormous amount of CO2 along with rivers, lakes, oceans and all living things, Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas. It is part of the water cycle and is always present as the earth's bodies of water contiually evaporate. But, I digress.

Everybody else on the planet is just playing along with this stuff. Booming foreign economies will certainly not be putting on the brakes for the sake of the whims of tree huggers.

So, because China is doing it wrong, we should just throw our hands up. You vote and support any earth raping, polluting agenda you want, I'll go with greener thinking thought. I'll do my thing, you do yours.

[TheRealThing]

So, because China is doing it wrong, we should just throw our hands up. You vote and support any earth raping, polluting agenda you want, I'll go with greener thinking thought. I'll do my thing, you do yours.

I don't remember calling you out on this matter. Among the major progenitors of the largest amounts of the so-called greenhouse gases, is non other than our own planet. Hence, the argument for the justification of America putting the fiscal gun to her own head is exposed for it's true nature, that of wild eyed envirophobia ,inflamed by the falsefied claims of the junk science that spawned the notion in the first place. (you'd probably refer to the same situation as BS) It's unfortunate if the truth causes you grief, but, if it's all the same to you, I will continue to base my opinions on sources outside of Paintsville Ky. Who in their right mind could get the idea I advocated for throwing up our hands? We lead the way in clean energy standards, in innovation and implementation. I don't care what you do. But, rest assured, I will do as I please irrespective of anything you decide to do. Thanks anyway for permission though.

[TheRealVille]

I don't remember calling you out on this matter. Among the major progenitors of the largest amounts of the so-called greenhouse gases, is non other than our own planet. Hence, the argument for the justification of America putting the fiscal gun to her own head is exposed for it's true nature, that of wild eyed envirophobia ,inflamed by the falsefied claims of the junk science that spawned the notion in the first place. (you'd probably refer to the same situation as BS) It's unfortunate if the truth causes you grief, but, if it's all the same to you, I will continue to base my opinions on sources outside of Paintsville Ky. Who in their right mind could get the idea I advocated for throwing up our hands? We lead the way in clean energy standards, in innovation and implementation. I don't care what you do. But, rest assured, I will do as I please irrespective of anything you decide to do. Thanks anyway for permission though.

I wasn't insinuating giving you permission to do anything. I simply, in plain writing nonetheless, said you do your thing, I'll do mine.

[Old School]

It would be a good time for some of the surface guys to train to go underground.

BTW, I'm all for coal mining, as long as it's mined clean and burned clean. But as attested to the company that I am working on their property, building selenium filtering plants, coal isn't doing such a great job protecting itself. Patriot is spending 300 million on these plants to clean up their mess.

Patriot is building this facility through an agreement with several environmental groups, who were suing them and a couple of other coal companies for selenium discharges. I wonder by how much did Patriot exceed their selenium limits? Was it by 0.001mg or was it significantly higher? The reason I ask is because EPA guidelines call for water discharged by the coal mines to meet the same maximum selenium standards that water plants discharge to the general public.
You may be interested to know that many foods and everyday products such as, nuts especially Brazil nuts which a 1 oz. serving contains 700% of the recommended daily value, then you have beer, tuna, halibut, sardines, salmon, oysters, shrimp and clams also contain high levels of selenium. Meat, including chicken, turkey and eggs contain smaller amounts and many grains contain various amounts of selenium depending on the amount of selenium in the soil. Dandruff shampoos contain very high levels of selenium. So I guess if anyone are really concerned about being exposed to high levels of selenium they should give up these items.

[TheRealThing]

Patriot is building this facility through an agreement with several environmental groups, who were suing them and a couple of other coal companies for selenium discharges. I wonder by how much did Patriot exceed their selenium limits? Was it by 0.001mg or was it significantly higher? The reason I ask is because EPA guidelines call for water discharged by the coal mines to meet the same maximum selenium standards that water plants discharge to the general public.
You may be interested to know that many foods and everyday products such as, nuts especially Brazil nuts which a 1 oz. serving contains 700% of the recommended daily value, then you have beer, tuna, halibut, sardines, salmon, oysters, shrimp and clams also contain high levels of selenium. Meat, including chicken, turkey and eggs contain smaller amounts and many grains contain various amounts of selenium depending on the amount of selenium in the soil. Dandruff shampoos contain very high levels of selenium. So I guess if anyone are really concerned about being exposed to high levels of selenium they should give up these items.

Whew, if you keep posting all these facts up in the light of day I'm gonna have to put on some shades! LOL I couldn't find anything about the 300 mil number but I did find this---
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/p...0f31a.html

"Patriot Coal Corp. has agreed to pay a $7.5 million civil penalty and install pollution treatment systems at some of its West Virginia mining complexes to settle a lawsuit filed by a coalition of environmental groups last year.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Huntington, W.V. in February, alleged that selenium discharges from Patriot mining complexes exceeded limits in the company's state water permits and the federal Clean Water Act.

Wednesday's settlement is the latest attempt by Patriot to resolve selenium pollution claims that have dogged the company for years. In September 2010, a federal judge found the company in contempt of court and ordered it to clean up selenium pollution at two mines---"

[TheRealVille]

Whew, if you keep posting all these facts up in the light of day I'm gonna have to put on some shades! LOL I couldn't find anything about the 300 mil number but I did find this---
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/p...0f31a.html

"Patriot Coal Corp. has agreed to pay a $7.5 million civil penalty and install pollution treatment systems at some of its West Virginia mining complexes to settle a lawsuit filed by a coalition of environmental groups last year.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Huntington, W.V. in February, alleged that selenium discharges from Patriot mining complexes exceeded limits in the company's state water permits and the federal Clean Water Act.

Wednesday's settlement is the latest attempt by Patriot to resolve selenium pollution claims that have dogged the company for years. In September 2010, a federal judge found the company in contempt of court and ordered it to clean up selenium pollution at two mines---"

I can tell you for a fact that the one I'm on is 50 mil, and another that my buddies are on at Patriot is 25 mil. That's 75 mil of the 300 that Patriot has said they are going to spend on them. I'll be sure to let you know the total after we get done building them.

[TheRealVille]

Patriot is building this facility through an agreement with several environmental groups, who were suing them and a couple of other coal companies for selenium discharges. I wonder by how much did Patriot exceed their selenium limits? Was it by 0.001mg or was it significantly higher? The reason I ask is because EPA guidelines call for water discharged by the coal mines to meet the same maximum selenium standards that water plants discharge to the general public.
You may be interested to know that many foods and everyday products such as, nuts especially Brazil nuts which a 1 oz. serving contains 700% of the recommended daily value, then you have beer, tuna, halibut, sardines, salmon, oysters, shrimp and clams also contain high levels of selenium. Meat, including chicken, turkey and eggs contain smaller amounts and many grains contain various amounts of selenium depending on the amount of selenium in the soil. Dandruff shampoos contain very high levels of selenium. So I guess if anyone are really concerned about being exposed to high levels of selenium they should give up these items.

You think Patriot would be spending 300 million if they weren't going way over the limit?

[Hoot Gibson]

You think Patriot would be spending 300 million if they weren't going way over the limit?

So is it fair to say that you just don't know the answer to Old School's question? I have another question. Are any of the impacted operations operated with UMWA labor? I understand that the anti-coal groups that targeted Patriot are also going after Massey. Could Jim Booth's operations be next?

[vector]

"Already, China uses more coal than the United States, the European Union and Japan combined. And it has increased coal consumption 14 percent in each of the past two years in the broadest industrialization ever. Every week to 10 days, another coal-fired power plant opens somewhere in China that is big enough to serve all the households in Dallas or San Diego."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/busine...wanted=all

If you would care to read this article published in the New York Times, you will see how ridiculous the tree hugger agenda really is. China will tell you what you can do with your save the earth talk. Though G20 summits are always characterized by giddy anticipation of world cooperation by environmentalists, little by way of cooperation is the norm, with more than a few backing out of attending at all. As a matter of fact, the only country that has taken any meaningful sacraficial steps in the direction of cleaning up our planet, is the US. The US by the way, already had the cleanest industrial pollutant record. So the guys that were already 'doing it right' are now closing coal fired plants which, by comparison, are no where near as destructive to the environment as say those in China. Chicken Little has ascended to power and the American public is being subjugated to the green ideologue's imaginary "sky is falling", doomsday scenario.

Seriously, what happened to common sense? There are any number of sources for naturally occuring green house gases out there. Volcanoes produce an enormous amount of CO2 along with rivers, lakes, oceans and all living things, Water vapor is a naturally occurring greenhouse gas. It is part of the water cycle and is always present as the earth's bodies of water contiually evaporate. But, I digress.

Everybody else on the planet is just playing along with this stuff. Booming foreign economies will certainly not be putting on the brakes for the sake of the whims of tree huggers.

let me see if i understand you and hoot you want the united states be like china now that's the republican way

[Hoot Gibson]

let me see if i understand you and hoot you want the united states be like china now that's the republican way

China burns dirty coal to fuel its economic development. Obama wants to stop American utilities from burning clean, low sulfur coal from central Appalachia. Obama has more in common with China that you want to admit. He is doing his part to make sure that China prospers in the global economy. You and your socialist cohorts are doing your part too.

[vector]

China burns dirty coal to fuel its economic development. Obama wants to stop American utilities from burning clean, low sulfur coal from central Appalachia. Obama has more in common with China that you want to admit. He is doing his part to make sure that China prospers in the global economy. You and your socialist cohorts are doing your part too.

the company i work for exports about 30 millon tons a year
and by the way china spends about 175 billon on there military
where we spend about 1 trillon a year and romney wants to add
another 200 billon and cut taxs 10% and balance the budget
don't think so we tryed this way for 30 years it don't work

[Hoot Gibson]

the company i work for exports about 30 millon tons a year
and by the way china spends about 175 billon on there military
where we spend about 1 trillon a year and romney wants to add
another 200 billon and cut taxs 10% and balance the budget
don't think so we tryed this way for 30 years it don't work

I don't believe that it is possible for somebody who works in the coal industry to have your attitude toward the hand that feeds him. Given your deliberate attempts to misspell words and otherwise mangle the English language, any statistics that you quote are highly suspect - assuming that you are as illiterate as you seem to want us to believe. If you are, in fact, a coal miner, I trust that you keep your anti-American, pro-Obama opinions to yourself when you are on the job.

[Old School]

You think Patriot would be spending 300 million if they weren't going way over the limit?

The environmental groups involved in this lawsuit have threatened to sue companies if they exceeded 0.05mg by one-thousandth mg for just one monitoring period. So, to answer you question yes I would.

[TheRealVille]

So is it fair to say that you just don't know the answer to Old School's question? I have another question. Are any of the impacted operations operated with UMWA labor? I understand that the anti-coal groups that targeted Patriot are also going after Massey. Could Jim Booth's operations be next?

I don't have a clue how much they are going over the limit. I just know that they are over the limit, and spending 300 million on the projects. I am on the largest one they are building, at 50 million dollars. Others are being built at 25 million. The facts I know, are that Patriot is building a bunch of these water treatment plants to clean up the selenium they are putting into the streams. The flagrant disregard for our water supply in this area has effectively shot "coal" in the foot, with their own gun. Maybe coal needs to look at themselves when looking for someone to blame for the hurt they are feeling right now. If they had did what was right 30 years ago, and continued to do what's right, they might not be in this mess.



Disclaimer, again: I am not against coal, as long as it's mined clean, and burned clean.

[vector]

I don't believe that it is possible for somebody who works in the coal industry to have your attitude toward the hand that feeds him. Given your deliberate attempts to misspell words and otherwise mangle the English language, any statistics that you quote are highly suspect - assuming that you are as illiterate as you seem to want us to believe. If you are, in fact, a coal miner, I trust that you keep your anti-American, pro-Obama opinions to yourself when you are on the job.

i guess if you don't vote republican you are anti america now

[Hoot Gibson]

I don't have a clue how much they are going over the limit. I just know that they are over the limit, and spending 300 million on the projects. I am on the largest one they are building, at 50 million dollars. Others are being built at 25 million. The facts I know, are that Patriot is building a bunch of these water treatment plants to clean up the selenium they are putting into the streams. The flagrant disregard for our water supply in this area has effectively shot "coal" in the foot, with their own gun. Maybe coal needs to look at themselves when looking for someone to blame for the hurt they are feeling right now. If they had did what was right 30 years ago, and continued to do what's right, they might not be in this mess.



Disclaimer, again: I am not against coal, as long as it's mined clean, and burned clean.

Coal has never been mined or used in a more environmentally responsible way than it is today. All that has changed is that we have an administration that has declared war on the coal industry. You are just one of Obama's foot soldiers. You support Obama, so you are against coal.

[TheRealThing]

]let me see if i understand [/B]you and hoot you want the united states be like china now that's the republican way

i guess if you don't vote republican you are anti america now

And in saying this you have stumbled onto the basis of your problem. You don't understand. I believe most dems allow themselves to be manipulated by party mantras. The truth is always the truth no matter what politicans are saying at the time. Right now, the dems think they can get by with lying and propaganda to manipulate their base. And, I must admit, to a large degree they are correct.

Some people want to be told what they think and some of us don't. The dems say closing 57 and counting coal fired generating stations, and the associated lay offs is a good thing. You believe them, I don't. The dems say same sex marriage is a good thing. You believe them, I don't. The dems say one of the functions of the federal government is to redistribute wealth. You believe them, I don't. The dems say the government should provide universal health care. You believe them, I don't. The dems say the republicans are evil, rich, and wrong about everything. You believe them, I don't. You believe anything the dems tell you. That's why you're so easily led around by the nose. You're looking for somebody to tell you what to think. And fortunately for you, Obama, and corps are there.

The democrats are counting on their supporters willingness to be maniputlated. Ever heard the saying "When I want your opinion I'll give it you?" There you go.

[MustangSally]

^ yet if Romney did that at Bain he was somehow an evil monster

[vector]

And in saying this you have stumbled onto the basis of your problem. You don't understand. I believe most dems allow themselves to be manipulated by party mantras. The truth is always the truth no matter what politicans are saying at the time. Right now, the dems think they can get by with lying and propaganda to manipulate their base. And, I must admit, to a large degree they are correct.

Some people want to be told what they think and some of us don't. The dems say closing 57 and counting coal fired generating stations, and the associated lay offs is a good thing. You believe them, I don't. The dems say same sex marriage is a good thing. You believe them, I don't. The dems say one of the functions of the federal government is to redistribute wealth. You believe them, I don't. The dems say the government should provide universal health care. You believe them, I don't. The dems say the republicans are evil, rich, and wrong about everything. You believe them, I don't. You believe anything the dems tell you. That's why you're so easily led around by the nose. You're looking for somebody to tell you what to think. And fortunately for you, Obama, and corps are there.

The democrats are counting on their supporters willingness to be maniputlated. Ever heard the saying "When I want your opinion I'll give it you?" There you go.

the republicans tell you they are going cut taxs raise the military
budget 200 billion and going balance the budget i don't think so

[Hoot Gibson]

the republicans tell you they are going cut taxs raise the military
budget 200 billion and going balance the budget i don't think so

And Obama will finish his term after running budget deficits in excess of $1 trillion four straight years. He says that he has a plan to balance the budget in 12 years but he is only eligible to serve 4. If you believe Obama and vote for him because you believe that he will do a better job balancing the budget than Romney, you are an idiot. If you don't believe Obama and still vote for him, well that is pretty sad.

[Benchwarmer]

Hope and Change. Damn. This country sure has changed in the last four years.

[TheRealThing]

the republicans tell you they are going cut taxs raise the military
budget 200 billion and going balance the budget i don't think so

:hilarious:

Obama will be the only president in history to defy US law by not having a federal budget in place for his entire term as president of the United States. Obama has submitted a number of budgets for consideration and has yet to get a single vote from a democrat or a republican in the senate or the house. On the other hand, the Romney and Paul Ryan ticket, (arguably the proud owner of the best financial mind presently serving in the congress) has already put forth not one but two budgets which recieved accolades from both sides of the aisle. Romney balanced the budget in Mass by the end of his first year and departed after 4, leaving a 200 million surplus in the general fund and a 2.5 billion dollar balance in that state's 'rainy day fund'.

Meanwhile, Mr Obama has the dubious claim of increasing our national debt by nearly 6 trillion in his first 4 years and is asking for 4 more so he can add another 6.4 trillion. Not to mention the fact that he has raided the medicare fund for 741 billion to finance ObamaCare that nobody wants.

You have to be kidding. :biglmao:

[vector]

:hilarious:

Obama will be the only president in history to defy US law by not having a federal budget in place for his entire term as president of the United States. Obama has submitted a number of budgets for consideration and has yet to get a single vote from a democrat or a republican in the senate or the house. On the other hand, the Romney and Paul Ryan ticket, (arguably the proud owner of the best financial mind presently serving in the congress) has already put forth not one but two budgets which recieved accolades from both sides of the aisle. Romney balanced the budget in Mass by the end of his first year and departed after 4, leaving a 200 million surplus in the general fund and a 2.5 billion dollar balance in that state's 'rainy day fund'.

Meanwhile, Mr Obama has the dubious claim of increasing our national debt by nearly 6 trillion in his first 4 years and is asking for 4 more so he can add another 6.4 trillion. Not to mention the fact that he has raided the medicare fund for 741 billion to finance ObamaCare that nobody wants.

You have to be kidding. :biglmao:

it's the law in mass to balance there budget DA
WE HAVE NOT HAD US BALANCED BUDGET SINCE CLINTON
RYAN voted for every thing bush 2 wanted then when a dem gets in
office he wants to be a conservative :worthy:

[TheRealThing]

it's the law in mass to balance there budget DA
WE HAVE NOT HAD US BALANCED BUDGET SINCE CLINTON
RYAN voted for every thing bush 2 wanted then when a dem gets in
office he wants to be a conservative :worthy:

You just don't have the first clue do you? The day Romney walked into the goveror's mansion, the state of Massachusetts was drowning in over 3 billion dollars worth of red ink. For your benefit, that means they owed over 3 billion, and the treasury was Ka-putt. The budget wasn't balanced.

I told you before, I lived through the time of Reagan, and Clinton. When Clinton took office (thanks to Reagan's fiscal policies) we were riding the biggest financial boom of our nation's history. Not that Clinton didn't do a good job but, it's not hard to balance the budget when it's raining tax dollars.

Finally, you might as well start facing facts. The Romney Ryan team will be more than capable of exposing the Obama Biden failures. And there is no way Obama can defend his abysmal record. He has made very sure he totally owns everything from the failed stimulus, to thumbing his nose at the Canadian Pipeline, to his war on coal. Not to mention his unfortunate spilling of the beans, when it comes to his real position on private sector entrepreneurs. Between his private little deal he cut with the Russian President to scuttle our national defense, and his "you didn't build that" comment, he's toast.

[vector]

You just don't have the first clue do you? The day Romney walked into the goveror's mansion, the state of Massachusetts was drowning in over 3 billion dollars worth of red ink. For your benefit, that means they owed over 3 billion, and the treasury was Ka-putt. The budget wasn't balanced.

I told you before, I lived through the time of Reagan, and Clinton. When Clinton took office (thanks to Reagan's fiscal policies) we were riding the biggest financial boom of our nation's history. Not that Clinton didn't do a good job but, it's not hard to balance the budget when it's raining tax dollars.

Finally, you might as well start facing facts. The Romney Ryan team will be more than capable of exposing the Obama Biden failures. And there is no way Obama can defend his abysmal record. He has made very sure he totally owns everything from the failed stimulus, to thumbing his nose at the Canadian Pipeline, to his war on coal. Not to mention his unfortunate spilling of the beans, when it comes to his real position on private sector entrepreneurs. Between his private little deal he cut with the Russian President to scuttle our national defense, and his "you didn't build that" comment, he's toast.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publicati...ES1133.pdf

[nky]

^ what does that have to do with anything?

[TheRealThing]

^ what does that have to do with anything?

I guess he felt he had to come back with something. The facts are exactly as I posted them. Romney could well have the best record and the finest credentials of any governor ever to run for the white house.