[vector]

http://www.rockefeller.senate.gov/public...c1ba0c32e4

[TheRealVille]

Jim Booth just signed a 20 year deal with India, worth 7 billion. He's not doing too bad in this "war". The price of mining a ton of coal is around 58-60 dollars a ton, and it is selling for 56 a ton. Can this be part of the layoffs? It's not all EPA. Plus, natural gas is way cheaper than coal. It's pretty easy to blame Obama, until hit with facts.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Natural Gas isnt going to last forever, and eventually politicians will get ahold of it and it will be so high nobody will be able to afford it.
If you dont like coal, or your against what it stands for, your in for a rude awakening.

[TheRealVille]

Natural Gas isnt going to last forever, and eventually politicians will get ahold of it and it will be so high nobody will be able to afford it.
If you dont like coal, or your against what it stands for, your in for a rude awakening.

I didn't say anything of the sort. Just stating facts. I didn't realize coal "stood" for anything. I thought it just a fossil fuel that we use.

[vector]

These Clean Air Act rulemaking actions were put in motion over two decades ago.
Former President George H.W. Bush signed the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990
which determined that these EPA standards would come about. Whether President
Obama is president, or if someone else was, these standards would still be going
into effect now based on the timeline provided in the Clean Air Act Amendments
and as a result of lawsuits
stemming from former President George W. Bush’s tenure.

[Hoot Gibson]

These Clean Air Act rulemaking actions were put in motion over two decades ago.
Former President George H.W. Bush signed the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990
which determined that these EPA standards would come about. Whether President
Obama is president, or if someone else was, these standards would still be going
into effect now based on the timeline provided in the Clean Air Act Amendments
and as a result of lawsuits
stemming from former President George W. Bush’s tenure.

Lies and misleading "facts." "Put into motion" implies that everything that the Obama administration has done to make like difficult for coal companies were pre-ordained and that the same emission standards and enforcement practices would be in place, regardless of who was president. That is just flat out untrue.

Bush did not define carbon dioxide as a pollutant and the Obama EPA has exercised its discretionary authority to fine tune emission standards to make it much more difficult to build coal fired power plants. Obama has kept his promise. You should be happy. Yet you are trying to give Bush credit that he does not deserve. I think that you would be less generous in suggesting that Bush deserves credit for strangling the coal industry if it were a politically popular thing to do.

P.S. - You slipped up on this post and stepped out of character. You used capitalization, reasonable grammar, and punctuation...or maybe you are just guilty of plagiarizing again. :hilarious:

[Hoot Gibson]

Jim Booth just signed a 20 year deal with India, worth 7 billion. He's not doing too bad in this "war". The price of mining a ton of coal is around 58-60 dollars a ton, and it is selling for 56 a ton. Can this be part of the layoffs? It's not all EPA. Plus, natural gas is way cheaper than coal. It's pretty easy to blame Obama, until hit with facts.

Your attempts to convince us that the coal industry is in fine shape rank right up there with the most ridiculous positions that you have ever taken here.

• The UMWA has declined to endorse any candidate in the 2012 presidential election. When was the last time that happened?
  
  
• A convicted felon, sitting in a prison cell in Texas, received 40 percent of the vote in the West Virginia Democratic Primary election, in which Barack Obama was the only other candidate on the ballot.
  

People who know something about the coal industry understand what Obama is doing to it. Either you do not know what you are talking about or you, like Obama, will say or do anything to get Obama a second term. But your efforts to absolve Obama of all blame for the woes of the coal industry make you look foolish either way. Obama and Biden are making good on promises to make life difficult for the coal mining industry and its customers.

[vector]

Lies and misleading "facts." "Put into motion" implies that everything that the Obama administration has done to make like difficult for coal companies were pre-ordained and that the same emission standards and enforcement practices would be in place, regardless of who was president. That is just flat out untrue.

Bush did not define carbon dioxide as a pollutant and the Obama EPA has exercised its discretionary authority to fine tune emission standards to make it much more difficult to build coal fired power plants. Obama has kept his promise. You should be happy. Yet you are trying to give Bush credit that he does not deserve. I think that you would be less generous in suggesting that Bush deserves credit for strangling the coal industry if it were a politically popular thing to do.

P.S. - You slipped up on this post and stepped out of character. You used capitalization, reasonable grammar, and punctuation...or maybe you are just guilty of plagiarizing again. :hilarious:

this was put into law 1990 by bush 1

[Bob Seger]

Lies and misleading "facts." "Put into motion" implies that everything that the Obama administration has done to make like difficult for coal companies were pre-ordained and that the same emission standards and enforcement practices would be in place, regardless of who was president. That is just flat out untrue.

Bush did not define carbon dioxide as a pollutant and the Obama EPA has exercised its discretionary authority to fine tune emission standards to make it much more difficult to build coal fired power plants. Obama has kept his promise. You should be happy. Yet you are trying to give Bush credit that he does not deserve. I think that you would be less generous in suggesting that Bush deserves credit for strangling the coal industry if it were a politically popular thing to do.

P.S. - You slipped up on this post and stepped out of character. You used capitalization, reasonable grammar, and punctuation...or maybe you are just guilty of plagiarizing again. :hilarious:

It is a word for word copy Hoot. Again, the whole dumb as a rock routine is just an act.

[vector]

It is a word for word copy Hoot. Again, the whole dumb as a rock routine is just an act.

this is where it came from
http://www.rockefeller.senate.gov/public...c1ba0c32e4
just read it

[Bob Seger]

this is where it came from
http://www.rockefeller.senate.gov/public...c1ba0c32e4
just read it

I had already read it, that's how I knew. Rockefellar huh? Reckon BS like this is why he has become one of West Virginia's most despised polititians. I'll give ol Jay credit though, he's smart enough to get out while the gettins good.

[Bob Seger]

It is a word for word copy Hoot. Again, the whole dumb as a rock routine is just an act.

And then again, probably not.

[Pulp Fiction]

I remember seeing an interview a few years ago on WYMT, the gentleman's name escapes my mind... but what he said made me remember the interview.

"There's more coal in Pike Co., KY alone than natural gas in the world combined."

[Pulp Fiction]

As much as I hate to say it..... Coal will be a thing of the past in 5-10 years, if not sooner. Sure it will make the EPA and some politicians happy to see this, but our little Commonwealth will never recover.

We are already concidered one of the poorest, deprived, depressed states in the union, and when coal goes... Kentucky goes. There will be some coal mines/operations left open to mine coal for other countries.

But when the coal severance money begins to dry up and.... Lexington/Louisville/NKY doesn't get their new Interstate's, public recreation facilities that coal severance money provides.... then what? More taxes for those places to play for those things?? Somehow the Gov't will get the money. It's going to be sorry to see these events play out in the next few years.

[Granny Bear]

^^
I don't like what you just said. I do; however, agree with it.

[Old School]

As much as I hate to say it..... Coal will be a thing of the past in 5-10 years, if not sooner. Sure it will make the EPA and some politicians happy to see this, but our little Commonwealth will never recover.

We are already concidered one of the poorest, deprived, depressed states in the union, and when coal goes... Kentucky goes. There will be some coal mines/operations left open to mine coal for other countries.

But when the coal severance money begins to dry up and.... Lexington/Louisville/NKY doesn't get their new Interstate's, public recreation facilities that coal severance money provides.... then what? More taxes for those places to play for those things?? Somehow the Gov't will get the money. It's going to be sorry to see these events play out in the next few years.

I agree with you for the most part, the exception being that coal will be a thing of the past in a few years. I think it depends on whether or not Barry and crew are re-elected to another term, if re-elected I could see surface mining taking a huge hit and may not survive or at least at the scale it is today.

Many people think that coal is just used to generate electricity, the truth is coal is used in many products that we use daily. Most people are unaware that coal is used in the production of steel, plastics, rubber, tar, bricks, medicines, solvents etc. With that being said and the fact that wind and solar energy will not be able to replace electricity provided by coal within the next twenty five years. In my opinion underground mining should stay strong for several decades even though most of the coal may be exported.

I suspect by the end of 2012 the people and businesses of Central Appalachia will really be feeling the effects of the recent layoffs, while state governments may take a little longer.

[TheRealThing]

^Yeah, but think of the boost to the tourism industry. By the time the EPA and the green cronies get through throwing their celebrant bashes in Vegas and Florida, resultant of the coming demise of the coal industry, the recent GOA revelries will look like little kids at play. inglepar:flush:

[TheRealVille]

Your attempts to convince us that the coal industry is in fine shape rank right up there with the most ridiculous positions that you have ever taken here.

• The UMWA has declined to endorse any candidate in the 2012 presidential election. When was the last time that happened?
  
  
• A convicted felon, sitting in a prison cell in Texas, received 40 percent of the vote in the West Virginia Democratic Primary election, in which Barack Obama was the only other candidate on the ballot.
  

People who know something about the coal industry understand what Obama is doing to it. Either you do not know what you are talking about or you, like Obama, will say or do anything to get Obama a second term. But your efforts to absolve Obama of all blame for the woes of the coal industry make you look foolish either way. Obama and Biden are making good on promises to make life difficult for the coal mining industry and its customers.

Every point in my post you quoted is fact. Booth indeed signed a 20 year/7 billion deal with India, the cost of mining coal is higher than the selling price, and natural gas is a lot cheaper than coal. That's facts.

[TheRealVille]

I agree with you for the most part, the exception being that coal will be a thing of the past in a few years. I think it depends on whether or not Barry and crew are re-elected to another term, if re-elected I could see surface mining taking a huge hit and may not survive or at least at the scale it is today.

Many people think that coal is just used to generate electricity, the truth is coal is used in many products that we use daily. Most people are unaware that coal is used in the production of steel, plastics, rubber, tar, bricks, medicines, solvents etc. With that being said and the fact that wind and solar energy will not be able to replace electricity provided by coal within the next twenty five years. In my opinion underground mining should stay strong for several decades even though most of the coal may be exported.

I suspect by the end of 2012 the people and businesses of Central Appalachia will really be feeling the effects of the recent layoffs, while state governments may take a little longer.

But, the rub is, from what I hear anyway, is that those uses for coal can be used from high sulfer coal. Wyoming or Montana, one of the two, has plenty of high sulfer coal, easy to get to, and I heard on the radio this morning that theirs is selling for 8 bucks a ton. That's strictly what I hear, I'm not sure.

[Old School]

Every point in my post you quoted is fact. Booth indeed signed a 20 year/7 billion deal with India, the cost of mining coal is higher than the selling price, and natural gas is a lot cheaper than coal. That's facts.

Booth signed a twenty five year contract with FJS Energy, which has a contract with India's Abhijeet Group.

Today gas is cheaper than coal, but for how long? Some gas companies are already cutting back on production because gas prices are so low.

But, the rub is, from what I hear anyway, is that those uses for coal can be used from high sulfer coal. Wyoming or Montana, one of the two, has plenty of high sulfer coal, easy to get to, and I heard on the radio this morning that theirs is selling for 8 bucks a ton. That's strictly what I hear, I'm not sure.

I'm sure some western coal can be used, but you also need Appalachia coal as well, for instance met coal is required to make steel.

[Hoot Gibson]

But, the rub is, from what I hear anyway, is that those uses for coal can be used from high sulfer coal. Wyoming or Montana, one of the two, has plenty of high sulfer coal, easy to get to, and I heard on the radio this morning that theirs is selling for 8 bucks a ton. That's strictly what I hear, I'm not sure.

Most of the coal in Wyoming and Montana has a very low sulfur content. The problem with it is that most of it is high in moisture and has a low BTU content. Most of the coal in the Illinois basin, which includes the western Kentucky coalfields, as well as parts of southern Illinois and southern Indiana are generally high in sulfur content and have a low BTU content.

Central Appalachian coal is the finest in the world and Obama is doing everything in his power to limit its use. The coal is low in sulfur, high in BTU content, and has other characteristics that distinguish it from the mostly lower quality reserves in other parts of the U.S. and the world.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I didn't say anything of the sort. Just stating facts. I didn't realize coal "stood" for anything. I thought it just a fossil fuel that we use.

It stands for people having jobs in this state.
Even though you may not think you will be affected if coal goes down, this entire state will struggle and to be honest, like old school said, we will never recover.

[TheRealVille]

Most of the coal in Wyoming and Montana has a very low sulfur content. The problem with it is that most of it is high in moisture and has a low BTU content. Most of the coal in the Illinois basin, which includes the western Kentucky coalfields, as well as parts of southern Illinois and southern Indiana are generally high in sulfur content and have a low BTU content.

Central Appalachian coal is the finest in the world and Obama is doing everything in his power to limit its use. The coal is low in sulfur, high in BTU content, and has other characteristics that distinguish it from the mostly lower quality reserves in other parts of the U.S. and the world.

The scrubbers I have been helping to install in the last 10 years clean to low sulfer coal, so that low sulfer coal can be burnt in coal fired powerplants. You think a power company will buy 58 dollar/ton coal when they can buy 6.50 dollar/ton coal?

GILLETTE, Wyo. - The spot price for Powder River Basin coal hit a two-year low this week.

On the informal, over-the-counter market, coal contracts for April delivery sold for $6.50 a short ton on Monday. That's the lowest level since Sept. 29, 2009.

For perspective, Powder River Basin spot contracts for next month delivery reached $16.35 in February 2008.

Charlie Noh, of Platts Coal Group, said that PRB coal is selling low because of the warm winter and lower natural gas prices.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-an...31420.html

[TheRealVille]

Booth signed a twenty five year contract with FJS Energy, which has a contract with India's Abhijeet Group.

Today gas is cheaper than coal, but for how long? Some gas companies are already cutting back on production because gas prices are so low.




I'm sure some western coal can be used, but you also need Appalachia coal as well, for instance met coal is required to make steel.

The radio said 20 year/ 7 billion.

[Hoot Gibson]

The scrubbers I have been helping to install in the last 10 years clean to low sulfer coal, so that low sulfer coal can be burnt in coal fired powerplants. You think a power company will buy 58 dollar/ton coal when they can buy 6.50 dollar/ton coal?

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-an...31420.html

Yes, I do. They have been doing it for years. Scrubbing coal is expensive and the transportation costs from the Powder River Basin to the eastern U.S. is substantially higher than coal from central Appalachia. When you compare western coal to the coal from eastern Kentucky and West Virginia you are comparing a Mercedes to a Government Motors car. Typically, western coal contains 8,500 BTU/lb. compared to central Appalachian coal, which often contains 12,500 BTU/lb or more. If installing and operating scrubbers was cheap, then the coal industry in the Illinois Basin would be booming.

[Hoot Gibson]

It is a word for word copy Hoot. Again, the whole dumb as a rock routine is just an act.

Copies are never as good as the original, Bob, and if you copy a bad original, well...

[TheRealVille]

Yes, I do. They have been doing it for years. Scrubbing coal is expensive and the transportation costs from the Powder River Basin to the eastern U.S. is substantially higher than coal from central Appalachia. When you compare western coal to the coal from eastern Kentucky and West Virginia you are comparing a Mercedes to a Government Motors car. Typically, western coal contains 8,500 BTU/lb. compared to central Appalachian coal, which often contains 12,500 BTU/lb or more. If installing and operating scrubbers was cheap, then the coal industry in the Illinois Basin would be booming.

I have helped putting scrubbers on virtually every powerhouse in the central and eastern Kentucky, and West Virginia. Just about every powerhouse in both states, and Southern Ohio already have the scrubbers. Any coal fired powerhouse will have scrubbers within the next few years. BTW, there was tons of scrubber work in Illinois just in the last few years.

[Old School]

The radio said 20 year/ 7 billion.

I've read six or seven articles about it and they all say 25 years 7 billion.

[TheRealVille]

I've read six or seven articles about it and they all say 25 years 7 billion.

At any rate, he is selling the hell out of his coal, and must not expect much EPA trouble if he signed a 25 year deal.

[Old School]

At any rate, he is selling the hell out of his coal, and must not expect much EPA trouble if he signed a 25 year deal.

I guess he plans on using underground coal, because the EPA is not approving new surface permits while changing water quailty requirements on expiring NPDES permits.