[toussaints]

Sutton and Gillipsie humiliated THEMSELVES with their behavior.
Smith certainly did no such thing, but he did embarass the program
by reducing it to irrelevancy as an NCAA contender.

I wouldn't say embarrassed, but he did shorten the gap between Kentucky and Florida in basketball

[OrangenowBlue]

Tubby SMith didn't leave the program in great shape. He left it in a
SHAMBLES. Recruiting was bust, fans were accepting that we would
sneak into the NCAA and be a first round victim. ANd he elft the program
in such poor shape that a losing season was all but a certainty.
Blast Gillispie all you want, at least he WAS able to get Patterson
to go ahead and sign(which he wouldn't go ahead and do for Tubby).
And he got some mileage out of Bradley and Crawford hsi first
season. He was a disaster, but an 11th year of Tubby would have
been WORSE.

Jodie Meeks was really a bust. LOL. Patterson was going to Kentucky anyway. Lucas was coming but didn't due to Tubby leaving. Gillepie signed players early and all the Tubby haters was going ooh and aah "what great recruits". Now one of those players couldn't make it at Western and the other one is a star at Asbury. Whohoo what good recruiting. Anybody thinks that at anytime in his career that Gillespie did as good or could have done as good as Tubby is either a lunatic or baskeball illiterate.

[zaga_fan]

Sutton and Gillipsie humiliated THEMSELVES with their behavior.
Smith certainly did no such thing, but he did embarass the program
by reducing it to irrelevancy as an NCAA contender.

Billy G didn't reduce Kentucky's relevance when he drank his way to an NIT bid?

[Observing]

Jodie Meeks was really a bust. LOL. Patterson was going to Kentucky anyway. Lucas was coming but didn't due to Tubby leaving. Gillepie signed players early and all the Tubby haters was going ooh and aah "what great recruits". Now one of those players couldn't make it at Western and the other one is a star at Asbury. Whohoo what good recruiting. Anybody thinks that at anytime in his career that Gillespie did as good or could have done as good as Tubby is either a lunatic or baskeball illiterate.

Patterson refused to make a committment until after Tub was
gone.

[Observing]

Billy G didn't reduce Kentucky's relevance when he drank his way to an NIT bid?

I don't think I've tried to portray BCG as good for UK.
I merely said that he was able to land Patterson and
get performance the first year from players that Tubby
couldn't, thta managed to allow us to avoid an almost
certain LOSING record(no NIT, no NUTHIN) had Tubby
returned for one more year. One can argue whether
Pat would have come had Tubby remained, but is
anyone going to seriously maitain that team without
Pat, with BCG or Tub, was going to have a winning record?

And one could argue that after 3 years Tubby was finally
going to figure it out, and get some solid contributions
from Bradley and Crawford. A rational person wouldn't
expect that, but I suppose one could argue it.

[zaga_fan]

I don't think I've tried to portray BCG as good for UK.
I merely said that he was able to land Patterson and
get performance the first year from players that Tubby
couldn't, thta managed to allow us to avoid an almost
certain LOSING record(no NIT, no NUTHIN) had Tubby
returned for one more year. One can argue whether
Pat would have come had Tubby remained, but is
anyone going to seriously maitain that team without
Pat, with BCG or Tub, was going to have a winning record?

And one could argue that after 3 years Tubby was finally
going to figure it out, and get some solid contributions
from Bradley and Crawford. A rational person wouldn't
expect that, but I suppose one could argue it.

BCG had some mind-numbing losses in his two years at UK.
Early season losses against teams that couldn't beat EKU on a regular basis.

[toussaints]

the whole point of recruiting is to fill in the holes you have and build your program into a winner. as long as you're winning, it's working. when you recruit great players and still lose, it's a FAILURE.

[OrangenowBlue]

Patterson refused to make a committment until after Tub was
gone.

Patterson waited to sign with UK because they didn't have a coach and he was waiting to see who was replacing Tubby.

[RunItUpTheGut]

To be quite honest, Tubby and Clyde put together couldnt touch Cal.

IMO they both sucked in almost every aspect.

[OrangenowBlue]

To be quite honest, Tubby and Clyde put together couldnt touch Cal.

IMO they both sucked in almost every aspect.

You don't suck as a coach if you win as many games as Tubby did. He was not natured for the Kentucky environment. His nature and style of play will get you twenty wins and an NCAA tournament every year but his final fours will be few and far between. Similar to Jim Boeheim.

[toussaints]

To be quite honest, Tubby and Clyde put together couldnt touch Cal.

IMO they both sucked in almost every aspect.

you know Tubby got his championship faster than Cal did :biggrin:

[RunItUpTheGut]

You two realize that were talking about UK standards here, thus meaning, they both wasnt worth a fart. Tubby did win a championship his first year with players he didnt recruit, and as well all know Clyde may be the biggest joke to ever see the game.

We now have a good coach, but more importantly in todays game, a great recruiter.

[zaga_fan]

Cal is now tied for Tubby in championships and everyone still acts like Tubby is a complete joke.

Doesn't matter if he recruited the players or not - he still made the calls, ran the practices, and got them ready to go before every game.

Would Cal have won a championship with the 98 team?
He's had loads of teams more talented but didn't reach the promised land.

I must enjoy sticking my head out here and getting it bitten off by the rabid wolves on here...

[RunItUpTheGut]

Fine Tubby Lard was the man.....

[Overrated]

Tubby is the fking man.

[Observing]

Cal is now tied for Tubby in championships and everyone still acts like Tubby is a complete joke.

Doesn't matter if he recruited the players or not - he still made the calls, ran the practices, and got them ready to go before every game.

Would Cal have won a championship with the 98 team?
He's had loads of teams more talented but didn't reach the promised land.

I must enjoy sticking my head out here and getting it bitten off by the rabid wolves on here...

Tubby stepped in to a turnkey title team that was recruited, trained and
coached by someone else, and who 100 other coaches or more could
have coached to a title, and somehow doofuses think that equates
to the ability that so many other coaches have shown, of being
able to build and prepare such a squad themselves.

Are you really that dumb? Or do you just like being contrarian?
Sure Tubby did some coaching for that team. But of course his
biggest contribution was upon reaching the end of the season,
was FINALLY giving up on trying to instill his system, and
letting them get back to the faster paced, pressing style of
play they were used to.

[Observing]

You don't suck as a coach if you win as many games as Tubby did. He was not natured for the Kentucky environment. His nature and style of play will get you twenty wins and an NCAA tournament every year but his final fours will be few and far between. Similar to Jim Boeheim.

The folks at UMinn will be interested in hearing that, and will
be happy to see it take effect. 5 years, 2 NCAA bids, and 1(2?) 20
win seasons before adding in NIT wins, all while the big 10
was historically weak.

[OrangenowBlue]

Tubby stepped in to a turnkey title team that was recruited, trained and
coached by someone else, and who 100 other coaches or more could
have coached to a title, and somehow doofuses think that equates
to the ability that so many other coaches have shown, of being
able to build and prepare such a squad themselves.

Are you really that dumb? Or do you just like being contrarian?
Sure Tubby did some coaching for that team. But of course his
biggest contribution was upon reaching the end of the season,
was FINALLY giving up on trying to instill his system, and
letting them get back to the faster paced, pressing style of
play they were used to.

Yep, he was left with a loaded deck. He was left with a team that Slick Rick couldn't win the national title with the year before. He was left with a team that lost Ron Mercer, Derek Anderson, Anthony Epps, and Jared Prickett to graduation. I do not think that UK was on anyone's radar to win the national championship the year Tubby took over. To indicate that they would have won the national title with almost anyone as coach is just plain dumb or they could be referred to. What is that intellectual term? Oh Yeah! Doofuses.

[OrangenowBlue]

The folks at UMinn will be interested in hearing that, and will
be happy to see it take effect. 5 years, 2 NCAA bids, and 1(2?) 20
win seasons before adding in NIT wins, all while the big 10
was historically weak.

The Minnesota people don't give a s@#t. All they are worried about is hockey and football season.

[OrangenowBlue]

Tubby is the fking man.

At least he is not like Syracuse coaches and ....... a man

[RunItUpTheGut]

Yep, he was left with a loaded deck. He was left with a team that Slick Rick couldn't win the national title with the year before. He was left with a team that lost Ron Mercer, Derek Anderson, Anthony Epps, and Jared Prickett to graduation. I do not think that UK was on anyone's radar to win the national championship the year Tubby took over. To indicate that they would have won the national title with almost anyone as coach is just plain dumb or they could be referred to. What is that intellectual term? Oh Yeah! Doofuses.

You kind of went against yourself.
You said slick Rick couldnt win the title with that team, but then you went on to mention the last team the Pitino had player wise was all lost to graduation, so in other words, Tubby won it with Pitinos recruits.

And IMO, Tubby doesnt even touch Rick by basketball standards.

[OrangenowBlue]

You kind of went against yourself.
You said slick Rick couldnt win the title with that team, but then you went on to mention the last team the Pitino had player wise was all lost to graduation, so in other words, Tubby won it with Pitinos recruits.

And IMO, Tubby doesnt even touch Rick by basketball standards.

I really do not understand your point. I do agree that Rick is a better coach then Tubby. Anytime you take over for someone, you are primarily playing with their recruits. What I was stating was that Tubby was not left with a loaded deck as four key players from the previous runner-up team left early or graduated. A previous poster posted that he took over a team that was loaded and should have won the national championship with any coach. In good ole fashion terms, that is bulls@#t.

[RunItUpTheGut]

^
All i was saying was that the 98 team was better than the 97 team, or Arizona was a lot worse in 98 lol.

I understand your point.

[Observing]

I really do not understand your point. I do agree that Rick is a better coach then Tubby. Anytime you take over for someone, you are primarily playing with their recruits. What I was stating was that Tubby was not left with a loaded deck as four key players from the previous runner-up team left early or graduated. A previous poster posted that he took over a team that was loaded and should have won the national championship with any coach. In good ole fashion terms, that is bulls@#t.

Hmm, Tubby was left with a roster that had 7 players that
were good enough to at some point get SOME time on NBA
rosters. Had a couple of eventual first round draft picks, played
9 deep, some of whom had played in 2 title games, and most of whom
had the experience of going against starters from 2 title games
in practice for 2 years. Yep, that cupboard was pretty bare.

And I never said the SHOULD have won, I said that 100+
other coaches COULD have coached them to a title. In
the final analysis when you factor depth and experience
with overall talent, they should have been a slight favorite
for the title, not the heavy favorite the '97 team was,
and certainly not the prohibitive favorite '96 was. In other
words a team that had as good or better chance to win
than most any other team. and a team that with an
off night could have been eliminated.

And I'm not maintaining that Tubby did nothing, just
that Tubby did nothing that MANY other coaches could not
have, And that Tubby proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he
could NOT assemble and coach a team to that level on his own.