[Hoot Gibson]

As do you. nicker:

I don't demand that others do what I refuse to do myself. Of course, I know better than to demand that a fellow human being prove the validity of their religious beliefs. Maybe someday you will be wise enough to show similar restraint. Do you work with any Christians, RV, and if so, do you insult them to their faces the way that you insult Christians in this forum?

[TheRealVille]

I don't demand that others do what I refuse to do myself. Of course, I know better than to demand that a fellow human being prove the validity of their religious beliefs. Maybe someday you will be wise enough to show similar restraint. Do you work with any Christians, RV, and if so, do you insult them to their faces the way that you insult Christians in this forum?

Again, I don't offer up my god for speculation, therefore I don't ask for, or demand any proof of him. When someone posts scripture as proof of their god, and "damns me to hell" with that scripture, they are to come up with the burden of proof. You can bet your ass that I ask christians for proof that their god is real, if they shove it in my face, and will tell them that I think their god is a fairy tale, if they can't supply proof. That's one thing I'm not afraid to do, is to say what I think, in person, the same as here. If you doubt me, come and see me.

[TheRealThing]

Again, I don't offer up my god for speculation, therefore I don't ask for, or demand any proof of him. When someone posts scripture as proof of their god, and "damns me to hell" with that scripture, they are to come up with the burden of proof. You can bet your ass that I ask christians for proof that their god is real, if they shove it in my face, and will tell them that I think their god is a fairy tale, if they can't supply proof. That's one thing I'm not afraid to do, is to say what I think, in person, the same as here. If you doubt me, come and see me.

Again, I don't have the first thing to say about where you wind up. According to the scriptures I have posted, that is all your choice. I didn't have a hand in writting the bible so your argument isn't with me, if you have one.

[Hoot Gibson]

Again, I don't offer up my god for speculation, therefore I don't ask for, or demand any proof of him. When someone posts scripture as proof of their god, and "damns me to hell" with that scripture, they are to come up with the burden of proof. You can bet your ass that I ask christians for proof that their god is real, if they shove it in my face, and will tell them that I think their god is a fairy tale, if they can't supply proof. That's one thing I'm not afraid to do, is to say what I think, in person, the same as here. If you doubt me, come and see me.

I have not seen anybody here "damn you to hell." I don't think that it takes much courage to pound on the keyboard while you throw down a few drinks and insult people for holding religious beliefs that you don't share. When you're not insulting people for their religious beliefs, you are falsely accusing them of racism or bigotry. You are not a happy individual. One oar in the water and traveling in a vicious circle.

[Hoot Gibson]

Again, I don't have the first thing to say about where you wind up. According to the scriptures I have posted, that is all your choice. I didn't have a hand in writting the bible so your argument isn't with me, if you have one.

As long as I am here, TRT, I am the target of RV's wrath. When I am away for a few days, he moves on to a new target. It's nothing personal - he is angry at the world. :biggrin:

[TheRealVille]

Again, I don't have the first thing to say about where you wind up. According to the scriptures I have posted, that is all your choice. I didn't have a hand in writting the bible so your argument isn't with me, if you have one.

Your view only works if your bible is true. You have yet to prove that it's not just a fable.

[TheRealVille]

Not worth my time. Done. You go to your "heaven", I'll go back to the dirt.

[TheRealThing]

As long as I am here, TRT, I am the target of RV's wrath. When I am away for a few days, he moves on to a new target. It's nothing personal - he is angry at the world. :biggrin:

My belief is that only one thing can make one happy in this life. At some point, every man who has realized his zenith in this world, has to face his own demons. Sooner or later the rat race ends, the kids move out (that one hurt) and you are left with yourself and what you believe. For some, there's comfort in their Savior. The problem is this, the wisdom of man, though incredible and as yet unfulfilled, doesn't satisfy. Nor does financial security. Once the chase is over, whether due to one's age or the realization of wealth, what's left? Lunch? Further, I believe God will allow man to reach only so high with his accomplishments.

The scripture I think about with regard to that is Genesis 11:5-9 (KJV)


5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.


We don't have any speech barriers in our time. We instead have suprecomputers which interface so much information so fast, we can't even articulate it in terms. Knowledge used to double every so often as follows; Right now and over the past 100 years it doubles twice as fast each time. So from 1900 it doubled by 1920, 1920-1930,1930-1935, and so on, (Wiki) These days it happens so fast we don't even have a handle on how long it takes anymore.
LINK---
http://www.androidtech.com/knowledge-blo...bling.html

The point is this, if man can indeed accomplish anything he can imagine, how much more knowledge can we really master and still remain master over our own knowledge?

[Hoot Gibson]

My belief is that only one thing can make one happy in this life. At some point, every man who has realized his zenith in this world, has to face his own demons. Sooner or later the rat race ends, the kids move out (that one hurt) and you are left with yourself and what you believe. For some, there's comfort in their Savior. The problem is this, the wisdom of man, though incredible and as yet unfulfilled, doesn't satisfy. Nor does financial security. Once the chase is over, whether due to one's age or the realization of wealth, what's left? Lunch? Further, I believe God will allow man to reach only so high with his accomplishments.

The scripture I think about with regard to that is Genesis 11:5-9 (KJV)


5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.


We don't have any speech barriers in our time. We instead have suprecomputers which interface so much information so fast, we can't even articulate it in terms. Knowledge used to double every so often as follows; Right now and over the past 100 years it doubles twice as fast each time. So from 1900 it doubled by 1920, 1920-1930,1930-1935, and so on, (Wiki) These days it happens so fast we don't even have a handle on how long it takes anymore.
LINK---
http://www.androidtech.com/knowledge-blo...bling.html

The point is this, if man can indeed accomplish anything he can imagine, how much more knowledge can we really master and still remain master over our own knowledge?

I agree. The premise of The Terminator movies is not at all far fetched (except maybe the travel back in time parts). We are nearing the point where we will be able to manufacture computers that can out think the smartest man and improve upon the programs created by humans. Such a computer will have no language barriers and would easily navigate the various protocols of connected networks.

As long as a human being can pull the plug on such a computer, we will remain its master, but some military organization will eventually pair such a computer with a self defense system. If anything, reality has already surpassed the imaginations of the best science fiction writers of the last century. I smile every time that I see a really old sci-fi movie with spaceships packed with huge computers with flashing lights and analog gauges.

Fifty years ago, sci-fi writers could not even imagine that instruments with digital displays would ever be developed. Yet, this year marks the 50th anniversary of the invention of the LED. Undoubtedly, there are similarly obscure inventions in today's labs that will have far reaching impact on the lives of our grandchildren. We face an interesting and dangerous future where men will eventually compete with machines.

[TheRealThing]

Not worth my time. Done. You go to your "heaven", I'll go back to the dirt.

Careful, you're paraphrasing scripture.

Genesis 3:18-19 (KJV)
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

[Pulp Fiction]

I love how no "Supporter" has made any comment about my post #22.


Then again, it's hard to argue with BIBLICAL truth.

[judgementday]

I love how no "Supporter" has made any comment about my post #22.


Then again, it's hard to argue with BIBLICAL truth.

I'm not trying to be vulgar/obscene...... so please don't suspend/delete my account. Im just trying to prove a point.

Men are born with a penis, testicles, prostate. Main function for those body parts, urination and PRO CREATION!

Women are born with an entire repoductive system in their bodies. Vagina, uterus, ovaries, cervix.... Main function for that whole system... PRO CREATION!

Now if somebody is truly "born gay" then that person by all means and purposes should not be born with any type of repoductive organs at all in their body. Because there would be no need for a "born gay" person pro-create.

I see the point that you are making.

However, people can be born with both parts so why couldn't someone be born gay? I'm not saying that I fully agree with that statement but there could be some truth to it.

[TheRealThing]

I love how no "Supporter" has made any comment about my post #22.


Then again, it's hard to argue with BIBLICAL truth.

Yeah, I know what your're saying. The thing with rejecting the truth, especially God's truth, is that it's more of an attitude than a lack of evidence. The Holy Spirit convicts man of sin in his own heart. One must run over his own conscience, to deny the existence of God. Sadly, that is the time in which we live. It's a choice to go against what is natural in the face of evidence to the contrary.

2 Timothy 3:1-5 (KJV)
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

[Pulp Fiction]

Yes there is cases of humans being born with both a penis and a vagina. And most of the time, the parents/guardian's of those childern born that way will make the decision at a very early age. But being born with both "parts" doesn't sentence you to a life of homosexuality. God will never make a mistake.


Now to the being "born gay" thing. Sexual intercourse between a MAN and a WOMAN is how God intended human life to be created. God gave MAN the tools needed to pro-create and God WOMAN the tools needed to pro-create. Nobody can argue that on any level.
Like I said in post #22, IF somebody is truly "born gay" then that person would be born without any repoductive organs in their body. A man and a man together CANNOT create a human life. A woman and a woman together CANNOT creat a human life. It is impossible.

Now with that said, doesn't that go against the laws of nature?? Why would somebody be "born gay" if that is one the duties of man.... To Be fruitful and Multiply.

[judgementday]

Yes there is cases of humans being born with both a penis and a vagina. And most of the time, the parents/guardian's of those childern born that way will make the decision at a very early age. But being born with both "parts" doesn't sentence you to a life of homosexuality. God will never make a mistake.


Now to the being "born gay" thing. Sexual intercourse between a MAN and a WOMAN is how God intended human life to be created. God gave MAN the tools needed to pro-create and God WOMAN the tools needed to pro-create. Nobody can argue that on any level.
Like I said in post #22, IF somebody is truly "born gay" then that person would be born without any repoductive organs in their body. A man and a man together CANNOT create a human life. A woman and a woman together CANNOT creat a human life. It is impossible.

Now with that said, doesn't that go against the laws of nature?? Why would somebody be "born gay" if that is one the duties of man.... To Be fruitful and Multiply.

I agree that sex is between a man and a women, but you say that God wouldn't make that mistake, then why are people born with both parts? There is reported instances where a child is born with both, the parents decide one way but then the child grows up and is attracted to the same sex and now considered homosexual.

I know this is splitting hairs but is a thought.

[OrangenowBlue]

Yes there is cases of humans being born with both a penis and a vagina. And most of the time, the parents/guardian's of those childern born that way will make the decision at a very early age. But being born with both "parts" doesn't sentence you to a life of homosexuality. God will never make a mistake.


Now to the being "born gay" thing. Sexual intercourse between a MAN and a WOMAN is how God intended human life to be created. God gave MAN the tools needed to pro-create and God WOMAN the tools needed to pro-create. Nobody can argue that on any level.
Like I said in post #22, IF somebody is truly "born gay" then that person would be born without any repoductive organs in their body. A man and a man together CANNOT create a human life. A woman and a woman together CANNOT creat a human life. It is impossible.

Now with that said, doesn't that go against the laws of nature?? Why would somebody be "born gay" if that is one the duties of man.... To Be fruitful and Multiply.

Why do we have men who are sterile and women that cannot bear children for whatever medical reason. They cannot be fruitful and multiply. Is that against the laws of nature and was that in God's plan. If God dictates how people are born and he doesn't make a mistake, why do we have children born with multiple birth defects, without limbs, without internal organs, blind, deaf, etc etc.

[MustangSally]

onus probandi
One can not make a non believer believe since they are lacking faith

[TheRealThing]

Why do we have men who are sterile and women that cannot bear children for whatever medical reason. They cannot be fruitful and multiply. Is that against the laws of nature and was that in God's plan. If God dictates how people are born and he doesn't make a mistake, why do we have children born with multiple birth defects, without limbs, without internal organs, blind, deaf, etc etc.

It isn't God's mistake to make, if He made every decision there wouldn't be such a thing known as free will. Because this isn't a perfect world. We have aids, all kinds of cancer, viruses, bacteria and infectious disease. We see calves, snakes, and other animals born with two or more heads. We have siblings born in multiple births with their bodies inmeshed to varying degrees and we call them siamese twins and etc. There are people born with both sets of sexual genitalia and are referred to as hermaphrodites. There are people born without arms, legs, feet, whatever. All it means are that they are imperfectly formed.

Homosexuality is not a medical condition, it's a decision made by people involved. Spiritually, that decision has ramifications and socially that decision has ramifications. The debate raging in our time is whether homosexuals should be extended the honor they crave. Society has witheld condoning the practice based on their notions of morality. Therefore, the so-called gay community has decided to make a social 'end run' bypassing the dominant public perspective in favor of court rulings. They just had themselves declared legal.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Lets remember that the gays keep the population down nicker:

[Pulp Fiction]

It isn't God's mistake to make, if He made every decision there wouldn't be such a thing known as free will. Because this isn't a perfect world. We have aids, all kinds of cancer, viruses, bacteria and infectious disease. We see calves, snakes, and other animals born with two or more heads. We have siblings born in multiple births with their bodies inmeshed to varying degrees and we call them siamese twins and etc. There are people born with both sets of sexual genitalia and are referred to as hermaphrodites. There are people born without arms, legs, feet, whatever. All it means are that they are imperfectly formed.

Homosexuality is not a medical condition, it's a decision made by people involved. Spiritually, that decision has ramifications and socially that decision has ramifications. The debate raging in our time is whether homosexuals should be extended the honor they crave. Society has witheld condoning the practice based on their notions of morality. Therefore, the so-called gay community has decided to make a social 'end run' bypassing the dominant public perspective in favor of court rulings. They just had themselves declared legal.

Preach on son.....

[Pulp Fiction]

onus probandi
One can not make a non believer believe since they are lacking faith

As sad as that is.... One day (not too far off) they will realize just how wrong and mis-guided they were. And by then, it will be too late.

[Pulp Fiction]

If anybody on here that is gay/lesbian, and nobody has explained (Biblically) why homosexuality is wrong, please feel free to send me a PM. I will do my best to answer any comments/concerns/questions you may have. If I can't answer them, then I will get in contact with people that can.

Christian's dont hate the homosexual's. We disagree with the practice but we still love you. Jesus paid the price for our sins. We've all sinned and come short of the glory. Jesus is loving, he doesn't want to see you live your life in sin. That's why he gave his life for you. The blood that was shed is the blood that will cover all of our sins. Nobody's perfect, every person living on this earth was born a sinner. It's up to you to choose Jesus. It's a free gift of eternal life.

[OrangenowBlue]

It isn't God's mistake to make, if He made every decision there wouldn't be such a thing known as free will. Because this isn't a perfect world. We have aids, all kinds of cancer, viruses, bacteria and infectious disease. We see calves, snakes, and other animals born with two or more heads. We have siblings born in multiple births with their bodies inmeshed to varying degrees and we call them siamese twins and etc. There are people born with both sets of sexual genitalia and are referred to as hermaphrodites. There are people born without arms, legs, feet, whatever. All it means are that they are imperfectly formed.

Homosexuality is not a medical condition, it's a decision made by people involved. Spiritually, that decision has ramifications and socially that decision has ramifications. The debate raging in our time is whether homosexuals should be extended the honor they crave. Society has witheld condoning the practice based on their notions of morality. Therefore, the so-called gay community has decided to make a social 'end run' bypassing the dominant public perspective in favor of court rulings. They just had themselves declared legal.

I do not disagree with some of your point and I think you missed mine. Pulp Fiction indicated that god dictates how people were born. That he does not make mistakes. I absolutely agree with you about free will and it isn't a perfect world. That things do happen beyond our control and God does not play a part in it. I do not have a strong opinion about homosexuality as I can see both points.

[OrangenowBlue]

onus probandi
One can not make a non believer believe since they are lacking faith

If you are referring to me you appear to be passing judgement when you do not know me.

[MustangSally]

If you are referring to me you appear to be passing judgement when you do not know me.

Not my place to judge. Religion is for those of faith. If you don't have it quoting a book probably wouldn't do much for you. By the way it was not aimed at you

[judgementday]

The point that I was making is why can't someone be born gay? Not that I agree or disagree with it either way, but it seems to me that if somone can be born with other reproductive misfortunes then why not this?

[TheRealThing]

The point that I was making is why can't someone be born gay? Not that I agree or disagree with it either way, but it seems to me that if somone can be born with other reproductive misfortunes then why not this?

Well, if man is a procuct of evolution as some claim, I suppose the argument could be made that a person could be born gay. It would still fly in the face of logic, seeing as how nature has provided sexual partners of the opposite sex and anatomically, the genitalia are more than obviously taylored to two sexes.

But since God has said in clear and concise terms that all who choose the homosexual lifestyle will be appointed their share of the lake of fire;
Revelation 20:15 (KJV)
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

there is no possible way men are created gay, because that would contradict God's stated will for all men.


Read the Lord's oppinion of the person choosing the homosexual life;

Romans 1:24-32 (KJV)

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26[COLOR="red"] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. [/COLOR]
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

God could not justify creating folks who have no hope of salvation. And, as is clear by these verses, at some point, God turns homosexuals over to a reprobate mind, which means there is no hope for them to be saved. He could not judge folks for the sin of homosexuality, if He had made them that way from the womb. Therefore, I contend none are born homosexual through no fault of their own. It's a choice, each and every time. See the following, for the perfect will of God for evey man;

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[Pulp Fiction]

Well, if man is a procuct of evolution as some claim, I suppose the argument could be made that a person could be born gay. It would still fly in the face of logic, seeing as how nature has provided sexual partners of the opposite sex and anatomically, the genitalia are more than obviously taylored to two sexes.

But since God has said in clear and concise terms that all who choose the homosexual lifestyle will be appointed their share of the lake of fire;
Revelation 20:15 (KJV)
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

there is no possible way men are created gay, because that would contradict God's stated will for all men.


Read the Lord's oppinion of the person choosing the homosexual life;

Romans 1:24-32 (KJV)

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26[COLOR="red"] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. [/COLOR]
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

God could not justify creating folks who have no hope of salvation. And, as is clear by these verses, at some point, God turns homosexuals over to a reprobate mind, which means there is no hope for them to be saved. He could not judge folks for the sin of homosexuality, if He had made them that way from the womb. Therefore, I contend none are born homosexual through no fault of their own. It's a choice, each and every time. See the following, for the perfect will of God for evey man;

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

:Thumbs: :Clap:
The defense rests your honor. :AngelPray

[Pulp Fiction]

Just incase anybody is wondering.........

TheRealThing has become my new favorite BGR member!

:theman: :1:

[TheRealVille]

:Thumbs: :Clap:
The defense rests your honor. :AngelPray

Only if that god is real.