[LWC]

I guarantee you one thing, the man that lines up with Obama this Nov will share in the shame. I'm saying those that vote for him by definition thereby support his policies, abortion, gay marraige, etc. and therefore share in the responsibility. Aiding and abetting.

Acts 5:29 (KJV)
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

As I stated above, there are 66 books in the Bible. 66. There are 52 weeks in a year. That means if I preached on a different book of the Bible every Sunday, I still would not cover it all.

Let me break this down. Here is a good sample of a yearly sermon calender. I do not plan out that much, but it is an example of important things to preach on. http://ministry127.com/sites/default/fil...lendar.pdf

I could go through important things to preach on and holidays as well. By the time I was done weeding it down, would their be room enough to construct a message around supporting or diminishing a candidate?

Should I preach on the resurrection or city ordinances? The trial and death of Jesus or universal health care? Biblical examples and teachings of faith or why to vote for candidate a? God's love or big/small government?

As I have previously stated, if the pastor feels called and it does not contradict the Biblical message, they should feel free to speak about whatever and be willing to give up their tax-exempt status.

Lord knows, if the government started condoning and ushering in genocide, I would say "Take my tax exempt status, I am preaching against this." It is easily within the biblical context and takes so much of a direct and urgent precedent that it must supersede whatever is planned for that preaching appointment. Sometimes the Holy Spirit gives us common sense.

This will be good for all of us to look at. My pastor-buddy and I debate this often. He feels one way and I feel another. We both administer God's love as well as we can and love our people. Sometimes people just disagree. One thing beautiful about the Bible is that many of its passages are open for interpretation. Some are very obvious, but others are not-so-much. Take it however you feel lead to, within Biblical context:

[1]Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
[2] Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
[3] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
[4] for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer.
[5] Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
[6] For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.
[7] Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.
[8]Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
[10] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
[11]Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand. Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light;
[13] let us conduct ourselves becomingly as in the day, not in reveling and drunkenness, not in debauchery and licentiousness, not in quarreling and jealousy.
[14] But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

[vector]

if i was a religous man i don't believe i could vote for either one of them so i guess you just pick you sin

[vector]

and i believe if a preacher gets up and tell you who to vote for then they should have to pay tax's because faux news have already influence you people enough

[TheRealVille]

As I stated above, there are 66 books in the Bible. 66. There are 52 weeks in a year. That means if I preached on a different book of the Bible every Sunday, I still would not cover it all.

Let me break this down. Here is a good sample of a yearly sermon calender. I do not plan out that much, but it is an example of important things to preach on. http://ministry127.com/sites/default/fil...lendar.pdf

I could go through important things to preach on and holidays as well. By the time I was done weeding it down, would their be room enough to construct a message around supporting or diminishing a candidate?

Should I preach on the resurrection or city ordinances? The trial and death of Jesus or universal health care? Biblical examples and teachings of faith or why to vote for candidate a? God's love or big/small government?

As I have previously stated, if the pastor feels called and it does not contradict the Biblical message, they should feel free to speak about whatever and be willing to give up their tax-exempt status.

Lord knows, if the government started condoning and ushering in genocide, I would say "Take my tax exempt status, I am preaching against this." It is easily within the biblical context and takes so much of a direct and urgent precedent that it must supersede whatever is planned for that preaching appointment. Sometimes the Holy Spirit gives us common sense.

This will be good for all of us to look at. My pastor-buddy and I debate this often. He feels one way and I feel another. We both administer God's love as well as we can and love our people. Sometimes people just disagree. One thing beautiful about the Bible is that many of its passages are open for interpretation. Some are very obvious, but others are not-so-much. Take it however you feel lead to, within Biblical context:

Originally Posted by Romans 13:1-14
[1]Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
[2] Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.
[3] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval,
[4] for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer.
[5] Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.
[6] For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.
[7] Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.
[8]Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
[9] The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
[10] Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
[11]Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;
[12] the night is far gone, the day is at hand. Let us then cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light;
[13] let us conduct ourselves becomingly as in the day, not in reveling and drunkenness, not in debauchery and licentiousness, not in quarreling and jealousy.
[14] But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

But, that doesn't line up to republican politics. What now?

[the other guy]

Did they share in the shame of Bush?

Bush is no longer president. Try to remember Obama won he has been president for three years now. I know it's hard but you can do it.

[TheRealVille]

Bush is no longer president. Try to remember Obama won he has been president for three years now. I know it's hard but you can do it.

But, do christians share in Bush's killings, and other war crimes while he was in office?

[LWC]

But, that doesn't line up to republican politics. What now?

It all depends on what interpretation of that chapter people have. The idea is to follow the laws of man until or unless they interfere with the law of God. Where the debate and arguments come in is, "Are there present laws that interfere with the law of God?" That is where the debates come.

Jesus paid Roman taxes and said to render unto Caesar what is Caeser's and God God's. On the other hand, he also told the Jewish officials exactly how wrong they were when they tried to get Him in trouble.

The fine line of religion/politics is a very heated and debatable one.

[TheRealVille]

It all depends on what interpretation of that chapter people have. The idea is to follow the laws of man until or unless they interfere with the law of God. Where the debate and arguments come in is, "Are there present laws that interfere with the law of God?" That is where the debates come.

Jesus paid Roman taxes and said to render unto Caesar what is Caeser's and God God's. On the other hand, he also told the Jewish officials exactly how wrong they were when they tried to get Him in trouble.

The fine line of religion/politics is a very heated and debatable one.

But, are these guys here resisting what God appointed? Are they going to incur God's judgement?

[Hoot Gibson]

But, do christians share in Bush's killings, and other war crimes while he was in office?

What a ridiculous thing for a longtime Obama supporter to say! I don't recall you having any problems with Obama ordering summary executions by predator drones, which he has done at a much higher rate than Bush ever did. I have no problem with the drone strikes myself but it is hypocritical of you to accuse Bush of "war crimes" when so many terror suspects who would have been taken prisoner under Bush's command are simply dead to spare Obama from making the tough decision of where and when to put them on trial. At least they were spared the ordeal of enhanced interrogation, possible hazing, or water boarding.

[TheRealThing]

Did they share in the shame of Bush?

Fair question. The situation with Iraq is no different than the onset of WWII. We are a sovereign nation, in no way could we afford to allow the murder of over 3,000 innocents at the World Trade Center go unchallenged. Approximately 3,000 service men died as the result of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and that led to our declaring war on Japan. They certainly had it coming and so did the terror network responsible for 911 as well as the parent states that sponsored them with refuge, combat training, arms and financing. The secret service remains undaunted as to Iraq's culpability in the matter and that should be good enough for any American. As a result of our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, we have lived safely within our own borders here in the US since 9/11. Keeping us safe is the primary responsibility of the federal government, and as I keep reminding you, these actions were voted on and approved by a bipartisan majority, which included Nancy Pelosi (Speaker), Senate Leader Harry Reid and many other notable congressional leaders. The best deterrent is a strong military ready to take out those who murder or in some way harm the collective good of the United States. When we lose the will to defend ourselves, which seems to be what you keep advocating, we are in effect defenseless.

We had right on our side when we invaded Iraq, and many of the war criminals who carried out acts of violent aggression against our nation were dealt with in a fashion befitting their crimes. I really don't see how there is any question about responding in kind with these thugs. How many would have to die before you would give your blessing to retaliate RV? Of course, I have noticed the liberal yahoo's suing the US, to force the release of Gitmo prisoners of war who later very predictably resurfaced comitting yet another act of terror somewhere else.

[TheRealThing]

But, are these guys here resisting what God appointed? Are they going to incur God's judgement?

No more than FDR RealVille. America has the right to defend herself. The US CONGRESS VOTED to invade Iraq. It wasn't just Bush, at least he was man enough to stand up and defend the nation.

[TheRealThing]

It all depends on what interpretation of that chapter people have. The idea is to follow the laws of man until or unless they interfere with the law of God. Where the debate and arguments come in is, "Are there present laws that interfere with the law of God?" That is where the debates come.

Jesus paid Roman taxes and said to render unto Caesar what is Caeser's and God God's. On the other hand, he also told the Jewish officials exactly how wrong they were when they tried to get Him in trouble.

The fine line of religion/politics is a very heated and debatable one.

Did you really say that? There is only one correct interpretation of the scriptures. We are to submit to higher authority until and unless that submission violates God's Law.

[TheRealThing]

What a ridiculous thing for a longtime Obama supporter to say! I don't recall you having any problems with Obama ordering summary executions by predator drones, which he has done at a much higher rate than Bush ever did. I have no problem with the drone strikes myself but it is hypocritical of you to accuse Bush of "war crimes" when so many terror suspects who would have been taken prisoner under Bush's command are simply dead to spare Obama from making the tough decision of where and when to put them on trial. At least they were spared the ordeal of enhanced interrogation, possible hazing, or water boarding.

For the record, I am all for the predator strikes. Bush only captured Sadam, Obama executed Bin Laden. Remember? Sadam stood trial and was hung by his own countrymen.

[TheRealThing]

Your man Romney was Pro Choice in 2002. So id he changes his mind again are people who voted for him doomed?

That actually was better question than you may have considered it to be. The answer is this; if on one hand you have a candidate promising you he will oppose abortion, then after he is elected, he proves he lied just to get the christian vote, HE is the one in trouble, not those he duped into voting for him, you know the old saying, "fool me once"? but, on the other hand, you have a guy like Obama, promising if you vote for him he will continue on his merry way, using taxpayer dollars to fund abortion and to further advance the so-called gay agenda you knowingly support things that are wrong. Obviously, if one votes for Romney and gets fooled it's no sin, but, to vote for Obama when you know for a fact he's gonna go full tilt for the the things I have mentioned, those who vote for him share in his legacy. And don't let anybody tell you any different. It's like driving the getaway car at a bank robbery, you didn't actually take the money, but you sure facilitated those who did.

[LWC]

Did you really say that? There is only one correct interpretation of the scriptures. We are to submit to higher authority until and unless that submission violates God's Law.

My meaning of the interpretation question is what does violate God's law? That is the debated question, not what the Scripture explicitly says there.

[TheRealThing]

My meaning of the interpretation question is what does violate God's law? That is the debated question, not what the Scripture explicitly says there.

God's meaning is always clear. If you're having issues defining whether or not the Lord will give out free passes to all those who vote democrat in spite of their stated and fought over platform planks of support for so-called abortion rights, or the so-called gay rights. I have one possible perspective for you. At the judgement, even DEMOCRATS will answer for sins against God. Abortion is murder of the unborn, and homosexuality is an abomination unto God, and He gives all those in bondage to that sin over to a reprobate mind. No hope.

To try to say that the God would hold voters responsible for defending their land against the onslaught of terrorism, especially on the scale of 9/11, is absurd. Remember, God ordered King Saul to kill every living thing from among the Amalakites?

1 Samuel 15:1-7 (KJV)
1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD.
2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
4 And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.
5 And Saul came to a city of Amalek, and laid wait in the valley.
6 And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them: for ye shewed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites.
7 And Saul smote the Amalekites from Havilah until thou comest to Shur, that is over against Egypt.

You know the rest of the story, Saul did not obey God fully, instead he saved certain of the best of the livestock and the King himself, and because of this, God rejected Saul as King. This paving the way for David to be anointed King of Israel. Call me stupid, but I would bet there isn't as many as one liberal alive today who would endorse God's command to utterly destroy the Amalakites, including nursing babies and livestock. No man can question God, and no man can really say he understands Him. We can trust and obey Him, and that's what many Americans have done in the past. I'm not advocating for the utter destruction of Iraq or Afghanistan. What I am saying, is all we can do is defend our land against aggressors, murderers and those that bring war to our shores. That is our charge, and the Lord has ordained for us to defend ourselves. And that includes people like Iran and North Korea. To me, we have every right to render their nuclear program as toothless as possible by destroying their ability to enrich uranium.

[LWC]

^So you are telling me that EVERY Scripture has only one possible interpretation? That my friend, we will have to agree to disagree on. Many have one meaning, but not all.

Exodus 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain."

or

Exodus 20:7 "You shall not receive/wear/accept the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who receives/wears/accepts His name in vain."

Ecclesiastes 1:4 "One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth abides forever."

or

Ecclesiastes 1:4 "One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth's vanishing point is concealed."

Isaiah 59:19b "When the enemy comes in like a flood, The Spirit of the LORD will lift up a standard against him."

or

Isaiah 59:19b "When the enemy comes, in like a flood, The Spirit of the LORD will lift up a standard against him."

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."

or

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not love less his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."

Matthew 14:27 "But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, 'Be of good cheer! It is I; do not be afraid.'"

or

Matthew 14:27 "But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, 'Be of good cheer! I AM! Do not be afraid.'"

[TheRealThing]

^So you are telling me that EVERY Scripture has only one possible interpretation? That my friend, we will have to agree to disagree on. Many have one meaning, but not all.

Exodus 20:7 "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain."

or

Exodus 20:7 "You shall not receive/wear/accept the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who receives/wears/accepts His name in vain."

Ecclesiastes 1:4 "One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth abides forever."

or

Ecclesiastes 1:4 "One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth's vanishing point is concealed."

Isaiah 59:19b "When the enemy comes in like a flood, The Spirit of the LORD will lift up a standard against him."

or

Isaiah 59:19b "When the enemy comes, in like a flood, The Spirit of the LORD will lift up a standard against him."

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."

or

Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not love less his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple."

Matthew 14:27 "But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, 'Be of good cheer! It is I; do not be afraid.'"

or

Matthew 14:27 "But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, 'Be of good cheer! I AM! Do not be afraid.'"

I will be more than happy to respectfully disagree with you wholeheartedly. Rightly dividing the Word as it applies to the Jew in the Old Testament, or as it applies to the gentile and the Jew in the New Testaments are the only qualifiers that I am aware of. Other than that, there is only one interpretation. :biggrin:

[LWC]

^I just have to ask, feel free not to answer: Do you use the 1611 King James Bible only?

I only ask because when I hear that, it comes from people that frequently use or only use the 1611 King James Bible.

[TheRealThing]

^I just have to ask, feel free not to answer: Do you use the 1611 King James Bible only?

I only ask because when I hear that, it comes from people that frequently use or only use the 1611 King James Bible.

Yes, I prefer the King James version. My position is this. If man could argue that he found ambiguities, or statements or verses with the various dualities you say exist. How then, can the case be made that God's Word, is inerrant?
God is perfect, His Son Jesus is perfect, the Holy Spirit is perfect, His Word is perfect, no two meanings stuff. Better still, if there are two meanings or more to any of God's Word, how do we apply the qualifier if it is not merely Jew versus Gentile, or saved and lost?

[TheRealVille]

What a ridiculous thing for a longtime Obama supporter to say! I don't recall you having any problems with Obama ordering summary executions by predator drones, which he has done at a much higher rate than Bush ever did. I have no problem with the drone strikes myself but it is hypocritical of you to accuse Bush of "war crimes" when so many terror suspects who would have been taken prisoner under Bush's command are simply dead to spare Obama from making the tough decision of where and when to put them on trial. At least they were spared the ordeal of enhanced interrogation, possible hazing, or water boarding.

Just making the point that if christians that vote for Obama will share in God's judgment against him, that the christians that voted for Bush will share in his judgement also.

[TheRealVille]

Yes, I prefer the King James version. My position is this. If man could argue that he found ambiguities, or statements or verses with the various dualities you say exist. How then, can the case be made that God's Word, is inerrant?
God is perfect, His Son Jesus is perfect, the Holy Spirit is perfect, His Word is perfect, no two meanings stuff. Better still, if there are two meanings or more to any of God's Word, how do we apply the qualifier if it is not merely Jew versus Gentile, or saved and lost?

You really didn't have to answer that. I already knew, and LWC, I would bet, already knew also. KJVO people can be spotted a mile away. Too bad I don't do bible translation debates anymore, I could have a lot of fun with you.

[TheRealThing]

You really didn't have to answer that. I already knew, and LWC, I would bet, already knew also. KJVO people can be spotted a mile away. Too bad I don't do bible translation debates anymore, I could have a lot of fun with you.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time debating the validity of God's Word with you, but it's not personal. I wouldn't do that with anybody. Suffice it to say, I am more than comfortable casting my lot with the promises of scripture. You and I have been here on earth for a very short span of time. Even though I am somewhat older than you, how much more could I really know than you do about life? The truth is the wisdom of the ages is contained in the scriptures, and there are NO mistakes or contradictions to be found within those writings, though many so-called intellectuals have given it their best shot. Literally thousands of prophecies that were forecast eons ago have been fulfilled to the letter, and among the more obvious left to be fulfilled, are the ones that center around the end times with the nations and geographical hot spots (middle eastern) poised to play out the final scenes.

Then of course, there is the ultimate proof to me. The miracle that occurred within me when I turned from my sin and accepted God's most precious gift. Salvation through His Son's perfect sacrifice on the cross, which made me a new creature in Christ. That's really the only reason we are all here, to choose. God created us so that we can be with Him forever, we just have to choose Him in return. To do that we had to be given the choice - that of doing things our own way, saying we are as good as anybody else is (and that is correct BTW) or, we can choose to believe Him, and accept salvation as the free gift it has always been meant to be, by bowing before our Creator, confessing our sin (we are all convicted of that by our own conscience) and accepting the reality of our need of a Savior. There will always be those that reject the validity of God's Word, that started with Satan's lie to Eve. The reality is this, only those who really want to be decieved, will believe the lie. There are plenty of folks in this land putting God's salvation plan out there for everybody to hear. Hearing God's plan of salvation, only to reject it, is in fact the act of making one's choice. That's when folks choose this world over the Kingdom of God.

[Pulp Fiction]

I am a member of the Hager Hill Freewill Baptist church, and have been for about 15 years now. The pastor has been there about 16 years now.

Our church started streaming the church services a few years ago via Ustream so some of the eldery members of the church or regular members that couldn't make it for whatever reason could watch the services. And I would bet a farm in Georgia that this is where the "watchdog group" got the complaint from. I would also bet a farm in Georgia that there were thousands of other churches and preachers around the country on the same Sunday morning preaching the exact same message.

I was in attendance when our pastor preached this to us. And I've never heard a louder chant in my life of "Amen's" and "Praise the Lord's" when he was preaching this. This story has made Fox News, WYMT, WKYT, WSIP and WKLW radio, The Paintsville Herald... and these are just the media outlets that I know about, I'm sure there is more.

A pastor's job, as a man of God and the leader of a congregation (we're not a Flock) is to preach the word of God. No matter how much it offends peoples beliefs and views.... he is charged with preaching the Bible. I know our pastor very well, he is a great man of God and has been for many years, I can even tell you what night he was saved on and where at cause I've heard it so many times in his sermons.

Nobody was forced to listen to what our pastor said... If somebody didn't like it, they should have got up and left the church, if they were watching the service via the internet, they should have closed out the web page.... simple as that. That's the beauty of the U.S.A., freedom of choice.

Now, I said all of that to say this. It wouldn't have mattered if a local, state or other federal elected official had made the comments supporting gay marriage, I know our pastor would have preached the same exact sermon about them as well (and not just our pastor, but I'm sure many other preachers would do the exact same thing). He is supposed to teach his congregation the ways of the Bible. And if his preaching of the Bible influences somebody's vote.... then I say Amen! For those of us that are Christians, we are supposed to stand up for what the Bible teaches us and tells us to do as people of God. If that means casting a vote against a political candidate who supports or believe's in something that we are taught from the Bible that is wrong, then I say Amen again!

[Bob Seger]

I am a member of the Hager Hill Freewill Baptist church, and have been for about 15 years now. The pastor has been there about 16 years now.

Our church started streaming the church services a few years ago via Ustream so some of the eldery members of the church or regular members that couldn't make it for whatever reason could watch the services. And I would bet a farm in Georgia that this is where the "watchdog group" got the complaint from. I would also bet a farm in Georgia that there were thousands of other churches and preachers around the country on the same Sunday morning preaching the exact same message.

I was in attendance when our pastor preached this to us. And I've never heard a louder chant in my life of "Amen's" and "Praise the Lord's" when he was preaching this. This story has made Fox News, WYMT, WKYT, WSIP and WKLW radio, The Paintsville Herald... and these are just the media outlets that I know about, I'm sure there is more.

A pastor's job, as a man of God and the leader of a congregation (we're not a Flock) is to preach the word of God. No matter how much it offends peoples beliefs and views.... he is charged with preaching the Bible. I know our pastor very well, he is a great man of God and has been for many years, I can even tell you what night he was saved on and where at cause I've heard it so many times in his sermons.

Nobody was forced to listen to what our pastor said... If somebody didn't like it, they should have got up and left the church, if they were watching the service via the internet, they should have closed out the web page.... simple as that. That's the beauty of the U.S.A., freedom of choice.

Now, I said all of that to say this. It wouldn't have mattered if a local, state or other federal elected official had made the comments supporting gay marriage, I know our pastor would have preached the same exact sermon about them as well (and not just our pastor, but I'm sure many other preachers would do the exact same thing). He is supposed to teach his congregation the ways of the Bible. And if his preaching of the Bible influences somebody's vote.... then I say Amen! For those of us that are Christians, we are supposed to stand up for what the Bible teaches us and tells us to do as people of God. If that means casting a vote against a political candidate who supports or believe's in something that we are taught from the Bible that is wrong, then I say Amen again!

Excellent!!! Excellent!!! Excellent!!!


:Thumbs:

And that is why God has allowed the Hager Hill Freewill Baptist Church to continue to flourish and flourish and flourish. Regardless of what you read on some of these threds there actually are people that are starving to death for the truth. There are multitudes searching for the answers to eternal life.


I was done with this thread because I said my peace, against those that I am VERY disapointed in, because anything further I would say would be counterproductive, but I just had to Amen this post Pulp Fiction. Very well said. I tried to say it , but in my defense of Ronnie , I got rather emotional (perhaps too emotional). Again, you did an excellent job. Thank you for your words.

[LWC]

What many pastors do when they "stand for the Word of God" is that they push others away. Sometimes pastors stand on the Word of God but also on the throats of sinners. That is the problem with preaching politics.

How many people will never go to Hager Hill F.W.B. because of the statement? He will gain respect of some people, maybe even someone that feels the same way will begin coming to that church. However, he has also closed the door to many. Maybe someone lost/missing-in-Christ was considering trying out that church but now never will.

As pastors we have to be careful about political statements especially ones against a certain candidate. They shut more doors than they open.

I will not argue that God has been showering Hager Hill with blessings and grace, I'm sure He has. I support and applaud him for standing by family values but he could have easily said: "According to my interpretation of (insert Bible verse), I believe that (gay 'marriage', abortion, etc... ) is not biblical." This isn't a story or a debate if that is the statement he makes. However, telling a flock/fold/body to vote for a particular candidate or vote against a particular candidate is wrong on so many levels.

Remember, the Jews despised the Roman government. Jesus made statements like going the extra mile, and rendering unto Caesar, etc... Those were statements that did NOT make Him popular. It would have been popular and ear-pleasing for Him to speak against the Roman government. Right now in churches, it is popular to speak against the government. I do not know Bro./Pastor Ronnie. He may be a highly devoted disciple of Christ showing love to the people of Hager Hill and the surrounding community, if so, glory to God, hallelujah and praise the Lord. It is just that he and I will not agree on this issue.

My style has always been to preach something positive and uplifting on Sunday morning. I will preach against sin, but always leave room for grace towards the end. Bible Studies are usually when I explore virtues and issues. It is a more informal setting for people to ask questions and for me to ensure they are learning/absorbing.

People do not usually avoid or run away from a church because of what is said in a Bible study, but they will because of what is said in a sermon. How many agnostics/atheists do we know that are the way they are because of a bad church experience?

[Pulp Fiction]

A pastor/preacher telling people how to vote is one thing.... But the people actually doing it is another. Our freedom of Free will is amazing.

A pastor/preacher/teacher can only present the material to their audience.... It's up to the people who are listing to either agree or disagree. Pastors/preachers/teachers are not going to make somebody believe For or Against something no matter how many times they say it or how many facts they can produce in one way or the other.

The most respected Ph. D. on the planet can have a year long course about how the Bible says gay marriage is wrong and against the word of God.... but he isn't going to change the mind of somebody that supports gay marriage.

And the same goes for gay marriage supporters, they can have a Ph. D. give a year long course about how gay marriage is ok.... but they will not convert over anybody that opposes gay marriage.

Our pastor did what he has been charged by God to do... Preach to his congregation (not flock) what the Bible says. Plain and simple. And sometimes preachers and their sermons are not going to be popular. Our pastor told those in attendance that Sunday morning what the Bible says. It's up to the people listing to the sermon wether or not to believe it. The people in attendance have to make their own decisions about who they vote for in elections.

[TheRealVille]

I am a member of the Hager Hill Freewill Baptist church, and have been for about 15 years now. The pastor has been there about 16 years now.

Our church started streaming the church services a few years ago via Ustream so some of the eldery members of the church or regular members that couldn't make it for whatever reason could watch the services. And I would bet a farm in Georgia that this is where the "watchdog group" got the complaint from. I would also bet a farm in Georgia that there were thousands of other churches and preachers around the country on the same Sunday morning preaching the exact same message.

I was in attendance when our pastor preached this to us. And I've never heard a louder chant in my life of "Amen's" and "Praise the Lord's" when he was preaching this. This story has made Fox News, WYMT, WKYT, WSIP and WKLW radio, The Paintsville Herald... and these are just the media outlets that I know about, I'm sure there is more.

A pastor's job, as a man of God and the leader of a congregation (we're not a Flock) is to preach the word of God. No matter how much it offends peoples beliefs and views.... he is charged with preaching the Bible. I know our pastor very well, he is a great man of God and has been for many years, I can even tell you what night he was saved on and where at cause I've heard it so many times in his sermons.

Nobody was forced to listen to what our pastor said... If somebody didn't like it, they should have got up and left the church, if they were watching the service via the internet, they should have closed out the web page.... simple as that. That's the beauty of the U.S.A., freedom of choice.

Now, I said all of that to say this. It wouldn't have mattered if a local, state or other federal elected official had made the comments supporting gay marriage, I know our pastor would have preached the same exact sermon about them as well (and not just our pastor, but I'm sure many other preachers would do the exact same thing). He is supposed to teach his congregation the ways of the Bible. And if his preaching of the Bible influences somebody's vote.... then I say Amen! For those of us that are Christians, we are supposed to stand up for what the Bible teaches us and tells us to do as people of God. If that means casting a vote against a political candidate who supports or believe's in something that we are taught from the Bible that is wrong, then I say Amen again!

Preachers can preach about stuff in the bible that is wrong, but they can't play politics in the church and remain tax free. If preachers feel so strong about preaching the bible, and for voting against people that go against the bible, they should turn in their tax free status, and preach anything they want.

[Bob Seger]

What many pastors do when they "stand for the Word of God" is that they push others away. Sometimes pastors stand on the Word of God but also on the throats of sinners. That is the problem with preaching politics.

How many people will never go to Hager Hill F.W.B. because of the statement? He will gain respect of some people, maybe even someone that feels the same way will begin coming to that church. However, he has also closed the door to many. Maybe someone lost/missing-in-Christ was considering trying out that church but now never will.

As pastors we have to be careful about political statements especially ones against a certain candidate. They shut more doors than they open.

I will not argue that God has been showering Hager Hill with blessings and grace, I'm sure He has. I support and applaud him for standing by family values but he could have easily said: "According to my interpretation of (insert Bible verse), I believe that (gay 'marriage', abortion, etc... ) is not biblical." This isn't a story or a debate if that is the statement he makes. However, telling a flock/fold/body to vote for a particular candidate or vote against a particular candidate is wrong on so many levels.

Remember, the Jews despised the Roman government. Jesus made statements like going the extra mile, and rendering unto Caesar, etc... Those were statements that did NOT make Him popular. It would have been popular and ear-pleasing for Him to speak against the Roman government. Right now in churches, it is popular to speak against the government. I do not know Bro./Pastor Ronnie. He may be a highly devoted disciple of Christ showing love to the people of Hager Hill and the surrounding community, if so, glory to God, hallelujah and praise the Lord. It is just that he and I will not agree on this issue.

My style has always been to preach something positive and uplifting on Sunday morning. I will preach against sin, but always leave room for grace towards the end. Bible Studies are usually when I explore virtues and issues. It is a more informal setting for people to ask questions and for me to ensure they are learning/absorbing.

People do not usually avoid or run away from a church because of what is said in a Bible study, but they will because of what is said in a sermon. How many agnostics/atheists do we know that are the way they are because of a bad church experience?

Oh,I agree LWC. Personally I believe they should all just tell em all what they want to hear.


Even got a great name to go over the door.




LWC's Church of Waz Happenin Now!!!!

[judgementday]

I agree that is if he is to preach the truth of what the Bible says then he should let no laws stop him.

However, correct me if I am wrong but isn't Romney a Mormon? Which means that he does not believe in the same beliefs as a Christian. So IMO it appears that he has contradicted himself but that is just my take on it.