[SKINNYPIG]

Hoot seemed much more civil in this discussion than most and he gets scolded with "stop that petty crap"?? While some use "fool" & "fairy tale"?? Honestly, I don't get it. Looks like one of the best members of this site could be gone due to biased petty crap.

[vundy33]

Seriously?! I just explained why I said "Stop the petty crap, Hoot". What does "fool & fairy tale" have to do with anything? Members on this site have said much, much worse about Islam, but since it's Christianity it's a problem? No, that's not how it goes. Like I've said more than once, I told Hoot to cut the shit because they end up getting into a bitch fight and the topic is completely lost. It's already went off-topic as it is. Of course you're not going to agree with me telling him to cut the shit because you agree with him.

I have looked over quite a bit in this forum, and even when the topic is completely lost and insults are going back and forth. You guys don't say the stupid things that need to be edited or anything bad enough that warrants an infraction or ban, which is hard to do with our new rules, that most other topics on the forum does. I told Hoot to cut the shit because for one, he's wrong about the double standard because TRV wasn't even claiming to have evidence of the God he believes in in his post to TRT...and two, like I said, I want to avoid the flame war that results nearly everytime TRV and Hoot get into a debate. If Hoot wants to be a baby instead of getting my reasoning for telling him to cut the shit, that's his choice.

Don't even start the biased crap...I follow Hoot's line of thinking much, much more than TRV's, if I were to be biased, it sure as hell wouldn't be with a liberal. And I've also talked to TRV about things he's said in threads quite a few times.

Every single one of you know how un-biased I am regardless of what I believe when it comes to politics and religion, so don't even call me that bullshit. If anyone has anything else to say about the tongue lashing I gave Hoot (sarcasm), PM me. Nut up, stop getting your feelings hurt and have a debate like men instead of picking at each other. This forum doesn't have the idiot trolls that the others do on BGR, please act like it dudes.

[WideRight05]

If you can absolutely prove anything in the bible is true, get back to me.

Okay, first off TheRealVille, I do have a couple of questions before I address this issue:

1. I can tell that you do not believe in Christianity, which you have mentioned, but I can tell from your posts that you do not like it as well. What is your reasoning? Did you have a bad experience in the Church? If you're not comfortable with that on here PM me...I had a bad experience in a Church growing up and it nearly chased me away for good too.

2. I would like to know what area it is of the Bible you do not believe in. To clarify, what do you think it is that (doesn't have to be in long detail) that reinforces your belief that the Bible isn't true?

If you're not comfortable openly on here, PM me. I am just trying to learn where your beliefs stem from on here so I can answer you better.

[SKINNYPIG]

Seriously?! I just explained why I said "Stop the petty crap, Hoot". What does "fool & fairy tale" have to do with anything? Members on this site have said much, much worse about Islam, but since it's Christianity it's a problem? No, that's not how it goes. Like I've said more than once, I told Hoot to cut the shit because they end up getting into a bitch fight and the topic is completely lost. It's already went off-topic as it is. Of course you're not going to agree with me telling him to cut the shit because you agree with him.

I have looked over quite a bit in this forum, and even when the topic is completely lost and insults are going back and forth. You guys don't say the stupid things that need to be edited or anything bad enough that warrants an infraction or ban, which is hard to do with our new rules, that most other topics on the forum does. I told Hoot to cut the shit because for one, he's wrong about the double standard because TRV wasn't even claiming to have evidence of the God he believes in in his post to TRT...and two, like I said, I want to avoid the flame war that results nearly everytime TRV and Hoot get into a debate. If Hoot wants to be a baby instead of getting my reasoning for telling him to cut the shit, that's his choice.

Don't even start the biased crap...I follow Hoot's line of thinking much, much more than TRV's, if I were to be biased, it sure as hell wouldn't be with a liberal. And I've also talked to TRV about things he's said in threads quite a few times.

Every single one of you know how un-biased I am regardless of what I believe when it comes to politics and religion, so don't even call me that bullshit. If anyone has anything else to say about the tongue lashing I gave Hoot (sarcasm), PM me. Nut up, stop getting your feelings hurt and have a debate like men instead of picking at each other. This forum doesn't have the idiot trolls that the others do on BGR, please act like it dudes.

Hey man, we disagree. I know my opinion doesn't matter, but in my opinion I have seen tons more bullshit and petty crap going on than this. I'm fine, my feelings are not hurt at all, you sure seem bunched up though.

[vundy33]

Okay, first off TheRealVille, I do have a couple of questions before I address this issue:

1. I can tell that you do not believe in Christianity, which you have mentioned, but I can tell from your posts that you do not like it as well. What is your reasoning? Did you have a bad experience in the Church? If you're not comfortable with that on here PM me...I had a bad experience in a Church growing up and it nearly chased me away for good too.

2. I would like to know what area it is of the Bible you do not believe in. To clarify, what do you think it is that (doesn't have to be in long detail) that reinforces your belief that the Bible isn't true?

If you're not comfortable openly on here, PM me. I am just trying to learn where your beliefs stem from on here so I can answer you better.

Thanks WideRight, appreciated.

I know your post is to TRV, but I'd like to answer too since it fits me pretty well.

Anyway, you remember the thread LWC had about Christianity a while back? I think it was there where I posted about my bad experiences in church (southern Baptist) with people who were supposed to be Christians, but did nothing but judge others and put people down. Those types caused me to stay away, and really put a dislike into me for alot of Christians, especially bible belt Christians. Of course, I've grown up over the years, and I realize that just with everything else, not all Christians are like that...it's just a very small minority. These days, I'm pretty conflicted...on one side, I have a general disdain because I've seen first hand what it makes that small number of people do..on the other, I have always been raised with religion, and my moral compass follows that of alot of Christians..I've always believed in God. And even though I really, really want to be able to accept Christianity, at least the Southern Baptist to it, It just reminds me of all the bad things that all religions cause and I still see some of those types of Christians I mentioned earlier...it just causes me to want to get away as quick as possible.

In reference to your second question...I think alot of the Bible is fairly accurate. The thing is, I just don't know how books that people wrote years after Jesus lived, over a span of 40 years, by people who didn't even live during the time of Jesus, could be taken as 100% truth.

I'm being 100% honest..I'd like to have my own religion, but the death and destruction it causes and bickering back and forth between them just makes me sick.

[TheRealVille]

Seriously?! I just explained why I said "Stop the petty crap, Hoot". What does "fool & fairy tale" have to do with anything? Members on this site have said much, much worse about Islam, but since it's Christianity it's a problem? No, that's not how it goes. Like I've said more than once, I told Hoot to cut the shit because they end up getting into a bitch fight and the topic is completely lost. It's already went off-topic as it is. Of course you're not going to agree with me telling him to cut the shit because you agree with him.

I have looked over quite a bit in this forum, and even when the topic is completely lost and insults are going back and forth. You guys don't say the stupid things that need to be edited or anything bad enough that warrants an infraction or ban, which is hard to do with our new rules, that most other topics on the forum does. I told Hoot to cut the shit because for one, he's wrong about the double standard because TRV wasn't even claiming to have evidence of the God he believes in in his post to TRT...and two, like I said, I want to avoid the flame war that results nearly everytime TRV and Hoot get into a debate. If Hoot wants to be a baby instead of getting my reasoning for telling him to cut the shit, that's his choice.

Don't even start the biased crap...I follow Hoot's line of thinking much, much more than TRV's, if I were to be biased, it sure as hell wouldn't be with a liberal. And I've also talked to TRV about things he's said in threads quite a few times.

Every single one of you know how un-biased I am regardless of what I believe when it comes to politics and religion, so don't even call me that bullshit. If anyone has anything else to say about the tongue lashing I gave Hoot (sarcasm), PM me. Nut up, stop getting your feelings hurt and have a debate like men instead of picking at each other. This forum doesn't have the idiot trolls that the others do on BGR, please act like it dudes.

I even said as much in my post.

The deistic god does't have to, he doesn't ask anything of creation, if he is fact there. He doesn't have a book that he ask people to follow blindly. He doesn't threaten to burn you for acting exactly like the flawed person he made does.

I don't feel one bit sorry for Hoot if he leaves. He stalks me all over this board starting his crap, and if everybody told the truth they would admit it. I absolutely can not post on this forum without him hunting me down and starting with me. You can even see it in this thread. I don't ridicule christianity, I just don't believe in it. It is a fairy tale to me, but that isn't ridiculing. And, I don't like the fact that christians push their beliefs onto everybody else in this country, via, exactly what this thread is about, gays, among other things. Believe what they want, but don't push it on the rest of the country.

[TheRealVille]

Okay, first off TheRealVille, I do have a couple of questions before I address this issue:

1. I can tell that you do not believe in Christianity, which you have mentioned, but I can tell from your posts that you do not like it as well. What is your reasoning? Did you have a bad experience in the Church? If you're not comfortable with that on here PM me...I had a bad experience in a Church growing up and it nearly chased me away for good too.

2. I would like to know what area it is of the Bible you do not believe in. To clarify, what do you think it is that (doesn't have to be in long detail) that reinforces your belief that the Bible isn't true?

If you're not comfortable openly on here, PM me. I am just trying to learn where your beliefs stem from on here so I can answer you better.

I will answer your post, but not right now. I just got in from my card game, and am tired.

[judgementday]

Okay, first off TheRealVille, I do have a couple of questions before I address this issue:

1. I can tell that you do not believe in Christianity, which you have mentioned, but I can tell from your posts that you do not like it as well. What is your reasoning? Did you have a bad experience in the Church? If you're not comfortable with that on here PM me...I had a bad experience in a Church growing up and it nearly chased me away for good too.

2. I would like to know what area it is of the Bible you do not believe in. To clarify, what do you think it is that (doesn't have to be in long detail) that reinforces your belief that the Bible isn't true?

If you're not comfortable openly on here, PM me. I am just trying to learn where your beliefs stem from on here so I can answer you better.

I would like to answer this as well as I somewhat agree with TRV and Vundy's thoughts..

1. I am torn as to whether or not I believe in Christianity. I can give specific accounts but to keep it short, I was rediculed by a youth pastor publicly for working on a Sunday, I was referred to as the "anti-christ" by a youth group during a halloween party even though my costume did not reflect that. Ever since then it just seems like I do not "fit" in with going to Church. I have had multiple similar situations as an adult so I have pretty much just given up on it. I've prayed from my knees over and over to only have the same result. Some of the most wicked, mean spirit people I have met have also been the same ones to shake my hand while attending church and this makes me not want to be part of their "church".

2. I studied many aspects of the Bible at one time when I was sure Christianity was the answer, specifically Revelations. I wanted to believe that what I was reading was true but came away thinking it was just a story.

I sometimes want to believe, but then I think "what is the point"?

[TheRealThing]

I would like to answer this as well as I somewhat agree with TRV and Vundy's thoughts..

1. I am torn as to whether or not I believe in Christianity. I can give specific accounts but to keep it short, (1) I was rediculed by a youth pastor publicly for working on a Sunday, (2) I was referred to as the "anti-christ" by a youth group during a halloween party even though my costume did not reflect that. Ever since then it just seems like I do not "fit" in with going to Church. I have had multiple similar situations as an adult so I have pretty much just given up on it. I've prayed from my knees over and over to only have the same result. Some of the most wicked, mean spirit people I have met have also been the same ones to shake my hand while attending church and this makes me not want to be part of their "church".

2. I studied many aspects of the Bible at one time when I was sure Christianity was the answer, specifically Revelations. I wanted to believe that what I was reading was true but came away thinking it was just a story.

I sometimes want to believe, but then I think "what is the point"?

The incidents you describe here are very unfortunate. There are a lot of churches in our region sitting on corners or up some holler that are staffed by novices. I'm not knocking that, just saying many, many times these folks don't know what thery're saying or doing. To illustrate my point, when you decide to accept Christ, and start attending church regularly it wouldn't totally outside reason for someone to offer you a job teaching a Sunday School class. In your case, you may study and pray during your weekly preparation and do a good job but, other folks may say things to their students like the youth pastor said to you. To do a good job with teaching a class or leading a youth group one must neccessarily have been an above average student in school to even have the study skills required to become versed in the subject matter at hand.

(1) I don't know what the situation was when you worked on Sunday. My son worked the JFL for our school system and they played on Sunday so, he got paid for reffing on Sunday. I didn't and don't have the first problem with it. He did it after church, and was a role model for the little ones in our area. If you have a job in today's society many times you are required to work on Sunday. The alternative would be to become unemployed, now, you know the Lord realizes what's going on. The real prize is your soul, not whether you live by the letter of the law.

(2) The spirit of Anti-Christ is that which usurps or masquerades as the Son of God, namely the Lord Jesus Christ. Anti Christ will some day (soon) stand in the temple at Jerusalem and declare himself to be god after having tricked the billiions here on earth into thinking he alone could lead them in a day when certain death by world war seemed imminent. Only then to plunge the world into world war exactly like Hitler did only much worse. Now, you tell me, you really thing the youth pastor had the right to call you the Anti-Christ?

All too often small minded folks wearing religion on their sleeve go about alienating people around them who have come seeking the truths of God. Keep this in mind--

Romans 3:9-12 (KJV)
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is why we accept Jesus as Savior, it is by His rightousness alone that we attain eternal life, by trusting (Him only) with our soul. None of us are any better than the other. The only difference is some have trusted Jesus Christ as Savior and are therefore sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of the Lord's return. Which I believe to be very soon.


We, all of us, were put here to make a choice. That choice simply, do I choose for or against the Son of the Living God. See this in the following verses--

John 6:32-40 (KJV)
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Finally I would offer this for your consideration, the reason that you continue to "want to believe" is because the Spirit of God is still calling you. If I were you, I'd get myself to a solid Southern Baptist Church. I would sit down in the congregation and listen to the Word of God being preached and at some point the truth will be revealed to you and all doubt will disolve away. Not trying to tell you which church to go to but, that is my sincere advice.

[judgementday]

The incidents you describe here are very unfortunate. There are a lot of churches in our region sitting on corners or up some holler that are staffed by novices. I'm not knocking that, just saying many, many times these folks don't know what thery're saying or doing. To illustrate my point, when you decide to accept Christ, and start attending church regularly it wouldn't totally outside reason for someone to offer you a job teaching a Sunday School class. In your case, you may study and pray during your weekly preparation and do a good job but, other folks may say things to their students like the youth pastor said to you. To do a good job with teaching a class or leading a youth group one must neccessarily have been an above average student in school to even have the study skills required to become versed in the subject matter at hand.

(1) I don't know what the situation was when you worked on Sunday. My son worked the JFL for our school system and they played on Sunday so, he got paid for reffing on Sunday. I didn't and don't have the first problem with it. He did it after church, and was a role model for the little ones in our area. If you have a job in today's society many times you are required to work on Sunday. The alternative would be to become unemployed, now, you know the Lord realizes what's going on. The real prize is your soul, not whether you live by the letter of the law.

(2) The spirit of Anti-Christ is that which usurps or masquerades as the Son of God, namely the Lord Jesus Christ. Anti Christ will some day (soon) stand in the temple at Jerusalem and declare himself to be god after having tricked the billiions here on earth into thinking he alone could lead them in a day when certain death by world war seemed imminent. Only then to plunge the world into world war exactly like Hitler did only much worse. Now, you tell me, you really thing the youth pastor had the right to call you the Anti-Christ?

All too often small minded folks wearing religion on their sleeve go about alienating people around them who have come seeking the truths of God. Keep this in mind--

Romans 3:9-12 (KJV)
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is why we accept Jesus as Savior, it is by His rightousness alone that we attain eternal life, by trusting (Him only) with our soul. None of us are any better than the other. The only difference is some have trusted Jesus Christ as Savior and are therefore sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of the Lord's return. Which I believe to be very soon.


We, all of us, were put here to make a choice. That choice simply, do I choose for or against the Son of the Living God. See this in the following verses--

John 6:32-40 (KJV)
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Finally I would offer this for your consideration, the reason that you continue to "want to believe" is because the Spirit of God is still calling you. If I were you, I'd get myself to a solid Southern Baptist Church. I would sit down in the congregation and listen to the Word of God being preached and at some point the truth will be revealed to you and all doubt will disolve away. Not trying to tell you which church to go to but, that is my sincere advice.

Thank you for the response. The churches in question were actually in Lexington...one was Baptist and the other was Methodist. I was pretty much shunned from the Baptist youth group for working on Sundays because I couldn't participate in Sunday morning service even though I was there every Sunday night.

In regards to the anti-christ statement. I didn't know anyone at the party except for my girlfriend and hadn't even uttered a simple "hello" to anyone yet. I felt that they realized I was the odd man out so they would make jokes on my behalf.

I feel that I want to believe because my wife and daughter goes to church and I want to spend that time with them. However, I currently make the choice not to attend and my wife respects that wish.

[TheRealThing]

Thank you for the response. The churches in question were actually in Lexington...one was Baptist and the other was Methodist. I was pretty much shunned from the Baptist youth group for working on Sundays because I couldn't participate in Sunday morning service even though I was there every Sunday night.

In regards to the anti-christ statement. I didn't know anyone at the party except for my girlfriend and hadn't even uttered a simple "hello" to anyone yet. I felt that they realized I was the odd man out so they would make jokes on my behalf.

I feel that I want to believe because my wife and daughter goes to church and I want to spend that time with them. However, I currently make the choice not to attend and my wife respects that wish.

No problem

[WideRight05]

[quote=judgementday]I would like to answer this as well as I somewhat agree with TRV and Vundy's thoughts..


First off judgementday, I commend you for mentioning that. A lot of people that have been through a situation like that understandably hide it or completely are led away. I am happy - actually thrilled - that you are still in the decision process and that those situations haven't led you to giving it up completely.

That kind of attitude that the Church had toward you was wrong and unacceptable.

Working on Sundays - It is mentioned in the book of John how Jesus went around healing people on the Sabbath, in which working was an absolute no-no! The religious leaders at the time were upset with this and asked him about it, to which Jesus replied, "My father never stops working. And so I work too." There are a couple of other examples in Matthew and Mark of this, but that rule was pretty much abolished when Jesus came along. I know several people that have had to work on Sundays, and during college my first year I worked at an animal clinic and had to miss Church to provide care for the animals that were boarding. And let me add that I felt the exact same feeling when you were ridiculed publicly. When I went forward at age 13, the youth pastor at the time said some bad stuff about me in front of the congregation when I went forward to be baptized, mostly because of his striking fear in me to do it. He was scaring kids in the youth group to go forward to get his "numbers" up to retain his job at the time. Referring to you as the "anti-christ" was terrible. Whoever did that, I would not want to be them and have to answer to God for it. There are groups that have been known to call people such things and it makes me cringe every time I hear a story like that.

As for the wicked, mean-spirited people - you are right! Sadly, there are people like that and have been since the time of Jesus. Jesus said that "it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick." He always reached out to the poor, to the people who were really, really struggling that a lot of the religious leaders at the time were "too good" for. One story in John I like is about how the leaders are about to stone a prostitute (that is what happened to people who were caught in prostitution at the time) and he said, "those of you who are without sin, cast the first stone." Not one person threw a stone. He told her that she would not be condemned, but to change her ways. Jesus always was helpful to the people that really struggled with sin. The only times I see in the Bible that he yelled at people were when he yelled at the religious leaders. Often people in those positions were in it for the money, for the fame, etc. That happened a lot in that time and he made sure to put an end to it there. It is sadly no different today. There are some churches out there that still have that kind of hypocrisy in the church.

Revelation is by far THE toughest book in the Bible. There are so many things in it that people think they can explain but cannot. My guess is you, like me, probably encountered a few of those people. In fact, I bet if you were to walk into a room with ten Christians that knew the book of Revelation like the back of their hand, you would get ten different opinions on it. That is such a complex topic, the end of time. IMO there is just as much, if not more of that in the old testament in the books of Daniel, Ezekiel, and some in Isaiah than there are in Revelation. There are just so many things in there that are above our comprehension, despite what people say. I started out studying that book and the old testament and thought the exact same thing you did on it...what is the point of this? What are all these symbols? How does it apply to me?

One of my favorite verses comes in Deuteronomy 29:29 because it shows that although we have questions...there are just some things that we do not understand, and maybe, those things are not meant for us to understand. "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law."

I would recommend taking a look at the four gospels first. Take a look at the book of John. I really like that one. John was SUCH a positive person. If you do enjoy more of a historical perspective, take a look at Matthew. Also, take a look at some of Paul's books. Paul first comes up in Acts where he is talked about, and wrote several of the books afterward. He was an evil leader and killed many Christians - before he eventually became one himself and changed his life around. Paul had an attitude of "if I can do it, ANYONE can!"

Judgementday, I don't know the area you are from, but I am confident there is a Church group somewhere in your area that you will be proud to be a part of. As for those people in the past that put that bad scar on you mentally with Churches - I would much rather be the biggest, most hardcore athiest out there than to be one of them. I can tell you have a good attitude and have been blessed with a lot of talents. You have questions - and that is SO normal. You're not alone and one great thing about BGR, you've got people that are honored to be here for you! I can guarantee you that every pastor, (I bet LWC would even say!) once questioned, once had the exact same thoughts you did and wanted answers.

Living that Christian life is tough. Anybody that tells you different has sinned because they just lied. Every day brings a different challenge and if someone does something as simple as the little white lie, holds anger towards another person, etc. then they have sinned. Since everybody has done that, everybody has sinned and everybody needs a savior. In a previous post I mentioned Romans 7:15 where Paul talks about how hard it is to come through, and how he hates the evil things he does. It's impossible to "work" your way into Heaven. Nobody is capable of it. That's why we all need Jesus.

[WideRight05]

That last post I barely had a chance to edit, but thought I would get off. Judgement day feel free to respond and I'll get back to you.

Also, Vundy, TRV - haven't forgot about you guys. I'll be back to you.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I would like to answer this as well as I somewhat agree with TRV and Vundy's thoughts..

1. I am torn as to whether or not I believe in Christianity. I can give specific accounts but to keep it short, I was rediculed by a youth pastor publicly for working on a Sunday, I was referred to as the "anti-christ" by a youth group during a halloween party even though my costume did not reflect that. Ever since then it just seems like I do not "fit" in with going to Church. I have had multiple similar situations as an adult so I have pretty much just given up on it. I've prayed from my knees over and over to only have the same result. Some of the most wicked, mean spirit people I have met have also been the same ones to shake my hand while attending church and this makes me not want to be part of their "church".

2. I studied many aspects of the Bible at one time when I was sure Christianity was the answer, specifically Revelations. I wanted to believe that what I was reading was true but came away thinking it was just a story.

I sometimes want to believe, but then I think "what is the point"?

Sorry for your bad experience.
Sounds like you got the hypocritical bunch.

As ive said before, i would go to a baptist church in the middle of nowhere with 5 people in it before i would attend what i like to call the social gatherings of these big churches.

IMO, the more people the worse the hypocrites are.

[Hoot Gibson]

I even said as much in my post.



I don't feel one bit sorry for Hoot if he leaves. He stalks me all over this board starting his crap, and if everybody told the truth they would admit it. I absolutely can not post on this forum without him hunting me down and starting with me. You can even see it in this thread. I don't ridicule christianity, I just don't believe in it. It is a fairy tale to me, but that isn't ridiculing. And, I don't like the fact that christians push their beliefs onto everybody else in this country, via, exactly what this thread is about, gays, among other things. Believe what they want, but don't push it on the rest of the country.

OK, you have convinced me to stay. Just drop the "stalking" talk because you and I both (along with everybody else) know that is a crock. I am not going to sideline myself and let you claim any credit for my decision to quit this site. I do plan to make myself more scarce during the week to spend more time pursuing other interests.

[TheRealVille]

OK, you have convinced me to stay. Just drop the "stalking" talk because you and I both (along with everybody else) know that is a crock. I am not going to sideline myself and let you claim any credit for my decision to quit this site. I do plan to make myself more scarce during the week to spend more time pursuing other interests.

Welcome back. Now you know that BGR has more "pull" than the moon, and willpower is defenseless against it. :Thumbs:

[TheRealVille]

OK, you have convinced me to stay. Just drop the "stalking" talk because you and I both (along with everybody else) know that is a crock. I am not going to sideline myself and let you claim any credit for my decision to quit this site. I do plan to make myself more scarce during the week to spend more time pursuing other interests.

I wasn't taking credit, just celebrating.

[WideRight05]

Thanks WideRight, appreciated.

I know your post is to TRV, but I'd like to answer too since it fits me pretty well.

Anyway, you remember the thread LWC had about Christianity a while back? I think it was there where I posted about my bad experiences in church (southern Baptist) with people who were supposed to be Christians, but did nothing but judge others and put people down. Those types caused me to stay away, and really put a dislike into me for alot of Christians, especially bible belt Christians. Of course, I've grown up over the years, and I realize that just with everything else, not all Christians are like that...it's just a very small minority. These days, I'm pretty conflicted...on one side, I have a general disdain because I've seen first hand what it makes that small number of people do..on the other, I have always been raised with religion, and my moral compass follows that of alot of Christians..I've always believed in God. And even though I really, really want to be able to accept Christianity, at least the Southern Baptist to it, It just reminds me of all the bad things that all religions cause and I still see some of those types of Christians I mentioned earlier...it just causes me to want to get away as quick as possible.

In reference to your second question...I think alot of the Bible is fairly accurate. The thing is, I just don't know how books that people wrote years after Jesus lived, over a span of 40 years, by people who didn't even live during the time of Jesus, could be taken as 100% truth.

I'm being 100% honest..I'd like to have my own religion, but the death and destruction it causes and bickering back and forth between them just makes me sick.

I remember the thread a while back Vundy, quite a good discussion we had. Everything you feel is totally understandable given everything you have been through with Church. And it is also normal. Everybody has questions like these that come up at some point in their life. Oftentimes people feel bad because they are questioning their beliefs because they see these people at Church and think...gosh, these people act so perfect. Can I ever live up to this? Truth is, when those people leave the Church service, 99% of the time they're thinking about where they're going to eat for lunch and the message and everything else from Church is history.

One thing I believe about sports is that they apply good life lessons in everything - and that includes Church. In sports, if a player or coach taunts the other team to the media, it doesn't just make them look bad, it makes their team look bad. The same applies to Church. If a pastor or member of the congregation says something to hurt a person, it doesn't just affect the person's view of the pastor, or person. It affects their view of that congregation and Christians in general. That group is a small minority that has existed since Jesus' time. In the previous post to Judgementday, I mentioned how Jesus never yelled at the people that were lost, that did not have him in their lives. He ripped the religious leaders for their hypocrisy, thievery (some were making money), and turning people away from the Church.

I thought about you, Judgementday, and TRV this morning when a few people from the congregation performed a skit about a family of four driving home from Church. They drove across a homeless man, and one of the children in the backseat wanted to help him. The father just made a joke about him and drove on. The car then broke down. On top of that, the father and mother forgot their cell phones so they couldn't call for help. The driver of another car who saw them break down pulled up beside them and a guy got out dressed in a bunch of chains and tattoos. The father and mother freaked out because of the guys appearance. The guy ended up calling for someone to help them, and waited around with them while they were waiting for someone to start their car. Point of the story is, as is a point of emphasis with our congregation - judging others is bad.

For every one bad thing religion has caused, there are probably 50 good things. Unfortunately all you will see in the media is all the fighting going on in the Middle East, or some crazy cult-like denomination talking about some weird thing that 99% of Church congregations don't believe. Some people I do feel use religion for argument sometimes. These people usually will keep any non-believer from ever having a chance of being involved because they try to be "right" instead of encouraging them about the great things that can be done through Jesus. They try to debate history, science, etc. but do nothing to lead that person to God. When I was in college at a Christian club meeting one time a pastor came in from a Church and talked about reaching out to others. One thing he always said was through sharing your experience, and that's what I feel is the best way to reach out to people. Showing that you care about them, that you're always willing to help them, that you're there for them. That really has a huge impact on them. When they know you well, likely they'll be open enough to at least accept your invitation to come to Church. This happened with someone I knew in high school. He was an athiest at the time, never believed in God and always attacked the Church. And this guy is a great person! He plays drums really well, and any Church would be blessed to have him. A lot of kids would look up to him and he would be a great at welcoming new members in. He had some people in his family that put him down because of he was an athiest. One Easter his girlfriend he was dating invited him to attend Church, and he attended and eventually dedicated his life and got involved in Church. It's amazing the impact that someone can have through encouragement instead of trying to tear the other down.

To reference the second question - which books are you referring to? Some of the New Testament books that were written by Paul, or some of the ones that written later on and not included in the Bible?

[vundy33]

Thanks for the reply man. I actually went to church with my mom this morning, haha.

And the books I'm talking about the New Testament books. I looked at the dates of them and found the discrepancy. I can put faith in the fact that I believe those books are accurate, but to do that I need to find the positivity in believing that.

[Bob Seger]

Thanks for the reply man. I actually went to church with my mom this morning, haha.

And the books I'm talking about the New Testament books. I looked at the dates of them and found the discrepancy. I can put faith in the fact that I believe those books are accurate, but to do that I need to find the positivity in believing that.

Well I'm glad your home. For some reason I thought you were deployed right now.

[vundy33]

That's coming up very, very soon Bob. One of the reasons I went to church, lol. But I also went because of this convo and to try to look at it all differently.

[Bob Seger]

That's coming up very, very soon Bob. One of the reasons I went to church, lol. But I also went because of this convo and to try to look at it all differently.

Oh, Ok.

I hope you enjoyed the service.

[vundy33]

I did actually. I really like that church. An awesome, younger preacher...even went tonight as well. Going to try to go one more time.

[Bob Seger]

I did actually. I really like that church. An awesome, younger preacher...even went tonight as well. Going to try to go one more time.

:Thumbs:


Then I assume you'll be shipping out pretty soon?

[vundy33]

Yes sir. Don't plan on making a thread for the Political board crew to say bye and to tell everyone to not be dumbasses while I'm gone, lol, but I'll make sure I do say bye though. They're weird about exact dates..we don't even know until just before we leave, haha.

[TheRealVille]

Yes sir. Don't plan on making a thread for the Political board crew to say bye and to tell everyone to not be dumbasses while I'm gone, lol, but I'll make sure I do say bye though. They're weird about exact dates..we don't even know until just before we leave, haha.

You be damn careful, you got people back home counting on you to come back.

[TheRealThing]

Yes sir. Don't plan on making a thread for the Political board crew to say bye and to tell everyone to not be dumbasses while I'm gone, lol, but I'll make sure I do say bye though. They're weird about exact dates..we don't even know until just before we leave, haha.

Hope you stay safe, I'll be praying to that end.

[vundy33]

Thanks dudes, I really appreciate it. Always careful, especially with summer fighting season coming up. I'll be fine. :Thumbs:

[WideRight05]

Thanks for the reply man. I actually went to church with my mom this morning, haha.

And the books I'm talking about the New Testament books. I looked at the dates of them and found the discrepancy. I can put faith in the fact that I believe those books are accurate, but to do that I need to find the positivity in believing that.

Awesome to hear about going to church Vundy!! I don't know you in person, but judging by the passion you express on here there is no doubt any church would be blessed to have you. I can tell you put your 110% into everything. Can't beat that!

To reference your second question - a good majority of the New Testament writers were either an apostle, had direct contact with the apostles, or were related to Jesus. The Four Gospels were the only books of the new testament with any real historical reference, since the writers were the ones who followed Jesus around. Acts (written by Luke) also has some historical reference, since it shows how the apostles carried out the mission that Jesus laid out for them after he resurrected. Revelation is the only other book that references anything historical other than these books, and that book goes more into detail about the future than the past. All the others are mostly letters directed to someone and/or a group of people to provide encouragement and advice. Even though most of the books were written after Jesus' time on earth, they were written by people who were there, who had witnessed seeing him.

[Bob Seger]

Awesome to hear about going to church Vundy!! I don't know you in person, but judging by the passion you express on here there is no doubt any church would be blessed to have you. I can tell you put your 110% into everything. Can't beat that!

To reference your second question - a good majority of the New Testament writers were either an apostle, had direct contact with the apostles, or were related to Jesus. The Four Gospels were the only books of the new testament with any real historical reference, since the writers were the ones who followed Jesus around. Acts (written by Luke) also has some historical reference, since it shows how the apostles carried out the mission that Jesus laid out for them after he resurrected. Revelation is the only other book that references anything historical other than these books, and that book goes more into detail about the future than the past. All the others are mostly letters directed to someone and/or a group of people to provide encouragement and advice. Even though most of the books were written after Jesus' time on earth, they were written by people who were there, who had witnessed seeing him.

As did the Apostle Paul, both pre Demascus road and post. And yeah, I'm leading up to something.