[TheRealVille]

I hope you recognize extreme sarcasm when you read it. Maybe you were being sarcastic too huh?

Maybe. Just messing with you.

[Hoot Gibson]

The notion that Jimmy Carter deserves credit for securing the release of the Iranian hostages is one of the most ridiculous theories that I have ever read in this forum. It belongs in the Conspiracies forum but it is so far-fetched that it does not even qualify as a good conspiracy theory.

Democratic leaders of 1980 did not give Carter any credit for the release of the hostages. However, they did unsuccessfully try to pin the blame Reagan and Bush for delaying the release of the hostages. A Democratically controlled Congress even had committees investigate allegations that George H. W. Bush secretly negotiated with the Iranians to delay the hostages' release. The investigations cleared Bush and Reagan and found no credible evidence to support the allegations.

As to why the Iranians would have feared Reagan, the answer is simple. Democrats attempted, with some success, to portray Reagan as a trigger happy cowboy who would be too eager to drag this country into war if he was elected. The Iranians believed Reagan's tough campaign rhetoric, ironically, because Democrats repeatedly claimed that he would engage in a shoot-first cowboy diplomacy.

Also, the hatred of Carter by Iranians was very personal. Carter's decision to grant refuge to the former Shah of Iran for medical treatment (the correct decision, IMO), infuriated the Iranian revolutionaries and precipitated the taking of hostages. The Iranians wanted to humiliate Carter for as long as possible. The change in leadership in the US gave Iranians a chance to release the hostages and save face, while denying Carter any credit for the release.

[Hoot Gibson]

The Tale of Two Clowns. It is time to send Karzai and Obama packing. It is unbelievable that an American President would be reduced to groveling during a time of war by publicly apologizing to a thug like Karzai during a time of war. Karzai sees the slaughter of a few American troops, who helped put him into power, as Afghanis showing their "feelings." Where is his public apology? Where is Obama's public demand for such an apology?

It is time for American troops to put some distance between themselves and Karzai and it is time for Obama to send the message that Karzai is a drone attack away from being the former Afghan president.


[INDENT]Seven US troops wounded in grenade attack in Afghanistan

SEVEN US troops were wounded on Sunday when demonstrators protesting the burning of the Koran threw a grenade into their base in the northern province of Kunduz, police said.

''The demonstrators hurled a hand grenade at US special forces based in Imam Sahib city of Kunduz Province. As a result, seven US special forces were wounded,'' Kunduz police spokesman Sayed Sarwar Hussaini said.

The attack came after Afghan president Hamid Karzai went on television on Sunday to appeal for calm after five days of violent anti-US protests across his country over the burning of Korans at a US military base.

Karzai ''condemned with the strongest words'' the treatment of Islam's holy book and said the perpetrators should be punished but told his countrymen, ''Now that we have shown our feelings, it is time to be calm and peaceful.''[/INDENT]

[TheRealVille]

The notion that Jimmy Carter deserves credit for securing the release of the Iranian hostages is one of the most ridiculous theories that I have ever read in this forum. It belongs in the Conspiracies forum but it is so far-fetched that it does not even qualify as a good conspiracy theory.

Democratic leaders of 1980 did not give Carter any credit for the release of the hostages. However, they did unsuccessfully try to pin the blame Reagan and Bush for delaying the release of the hostages. A Democratically controlled Congress even had committees investigate allegations that George H. W. Bush secretly negotiated with the Iranians to delay the hostages' release. The investigations cleared Bush and Reagan and found no credible evidence to support the allegations.

As to why the Iranians would have feared Reagan, the answer is simple. Democrats attempted, with some success, to portray Reagan as a trigger happy cowboy who would be too eager to drag this country into war if he was elected. The Iranians believed Reagan's tough campaign rhetoric, ironically, because Democrats repeatedly claimed that he would engage in a shoot-first cowboy diplomacy.

Also, the hatred of Carter by Iranians was very personal. Carter's decision to grant refuge to the former Shah of Iran for medical treatment (the correct decision, IMO), infuriated the Iranian revolutionaries and precipitated the taking of hostages. The Iranians wanted to humiliate Carter for as long as possible. The change in leadership in the US gave Iranians a chance to release the hostages and save face, while denying Carter any credit for the release.

Who would have thought you would have given Reagan credit for the release of hostages the same day he took office? Me. Sounds to me like the Democrats of the day were the reason for the release, by portraying Reagan as a "trigger happy cowboy", as you say. The fact of the matter is, that Carter got them released. Anything about being afraid of Reagan is just speculation.

[Hoot Gibson]

Carter did nothing but embarrass Americans with his actions during the hostage crisis. It probably cost him the election. Anybody who believes that Carter, who was negotiating from a position of extreme weakness following his defeat in November, 1980, successfully convinced a group of hard core radical fundamentalist Muslim terrorists to release the hostages understands neither the basic principles of negotiation nor the mindset of Muslim terrorists. They respect one thing - strength - and Carter was seen even more as a weakling than our current president.

Lame duck presidents who lose their final elections by landslide margins get no respect, particularly from the people who hate them most.

I knew many Iranians during Iranian hostage crisis, some who supported the Shah, and some who bitterly opposed him, and all of them would have laughed at the suggestion that Iran released the hostages because of anything that Jimmy Carter did. Carter was an absolute failure as a president and his handling of the hostage crisis was his biggest failure. That is a historical fact.

[Truth]

As Hoot Gibson posted, seven more of our troops were injured when a grenade was thrown into a crowd by one of the Muslim fools. Do you suppose Sec. Paneta, Gen. Allen, and the weakling in the White House will apologize again?

If the Democrats had anything to do with the release of the hostages, they would obviously have made sure that the release took place before the election. The fact that it took place on the day Reagan took office is, at the very least, strong circumstantial evidence that there is a strong relationship between the two events.

Carter was seen universally as a weakling and in over his head as president. BO is another Carter in all respects except that Carter did have, for the most part, fairly strong Christian beliefs.


The main difference is that Carter lost the support of the media while BO will never lose the unwavering support of the media.

Of course, if all this never ending cowering down of our leaders to the Muslims bothers you, you can always tune in to MSNBC, CNN, NBC, ABC, or CBS because you will never hear it reported by those "news" sources.

[Truth]

I just read that Peter Lavoy, an Assistant Secretary of Defense, apologized "multiple times" to Washington area Muslims at a mosque in Virginia. He promised that all our troops would be retrained in the proper handling of "religious" materials.

What has happened to the country that successfully fought, among other conflicts, WWI and WWII? BO, if given four more years, will destroy the greatness and superiority of our country. The Republicans better wake up and develop a little bit of smarts. While they fall into Democrat traps such as the birth control non-issue and continue to slam each other, the probability of BO being reelected increases each day. If BO wins, and most likely he will, the Republicans will deserve much of the blame. God help us if that happens. But, my guess is that He won't. We'll get what we deserve.

[WideRight05]

I just read that Peter Lavoy, an Assistant Secretary of Defense, apologized "multiple times" to Washington area Muslims at a mosque in Virginia. He promised that all our troops would be retrained in the proper handling of "religious" materials.

What has happened to the country that successfully fought, among other conflicts, WWI and WWII? BO, if given four more years, will destroy the greatness and superiority of our country. The Republicans better wake up and develop a little bit of smarts. While they fall into Democrat traps such as the birth control non-issue and continue to slam each other, the probability of BO being reelected increases each day. If BO wins, and most likely he will, the Republicans will deserve much of the blame. God help us if that happens. But, my guess is that He won't. We'll get what we deserve.

God help us if BO gets another four years. I think a lot of people have woke up. There is a song that refers to America as "one nation controlled by the media." I expect that whoever runs against BO is going to get attacks from the media, and plenty of them. Given the public's was not satisfied with GWB, the big thing with the media pushing McCain as "another Bush" swayed a lot of people's opinions in the last election - despite McCain being a lot more moderate than Bush.

[TheRealThing]

Who would have thought you would have given Reagan credit for the release of hostages the same day he took office? Me. Sounds to me like the Democrats of the day were the reason for the release, by portraying Reagan as a "trigger happy cowboy", as you say. The fact of the matter is, that Carter got them released. Anything about being afraid of Reagan is just speculation.

It's hilarious reading RealVille posts about something that happened when he was what? 9? Listen guys, Jimmy Carter left office a humiliated man. NOBODY cut him an ounce of slack, and that includes the media. He was lampooned on Johnny Carson and by Walter Cronkite. When Carter assumed office he believed, in Nancy Pelosi-esque manner, he could negotiate with the Russians and prevail with them. He was going to be the great man of peace and envisioned himself a world healer. He announced as much to the American public, revealing the details of his proposed SALT II & SALT III talks prior to negotiations with the Soviets,. and prior to their having even seen the proposals, thusly, leaving them (the Russians) no room to dicker. The press literally bar-b-qued Carter, referring to the perception that he had his "feelings hurt" when the Russians one word response was delivered "NYET"

Does anyone other than me remember the ridicule Carter endured as the result of his bass fishing trip? He and his fishing buddy were attacked on the water by a, killer, rabid, rabbit. You can't make this stuff up! The characature of Carter and his buddy in a bass boat, drawing back in terror, as the rabid rabbit came at them in the water, was one for the ages. "CARTER AS GOOD AS REAGAN?' Absurd doesn't even come close. News organizations of that day were staffed by folks of integrity. One really could believe and accept the nightly news as factual. Hence, no quarter was given as Carter dscribed the harrowing account, and his fending off the crazed rabbit with a paddle. These days it has become standard practice to present the news in a manner that 'suggests' the facts in a light that is favorable to the Democrats on all but FOX NEWS. And, of course, what is the favorite target of all other main stream news outlets and the Democratic Party? DUH, FOX NEWS! The sad thing is, only those of us who actually lived through the days when the truth was preferable to the party line, actually has a basis for comparison. Several on here parrot the Democratic talking points as if they were really making an eloquent case.

But, as to Reagan, you can bet Iran back in those days didn't have much to back up their bark. And all you true believers can think what the liberal think tanks tell you to think. I was there and the first Ayatolla Khomeini to ever hit the news didn't have much trouble taking Reagan at his word. During his run-up to the White House Reagan promised the Ayatolla he would be hearing from him. The Russians were somewhat more impressed with him than RealVille is too, as they did in fact, negotiate. And maybe, if you paid attention in history class, you noticed it was Reagan who openly challenged the Soviets when he said "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall" It did come down by the way, in 1989 BEFORE Reagan's second term was up. Just like the economy turned around BEFORE his second term was up. I was there and I can tell one and all, America was comfortably well healed by Mr Reagan's departure. Our nation benefitted greatly by Reagan's policies, and Mr Clinton was no exception, largely due to the rectified ship of state left behind by Reagan, was Mr Clinton able have the success he had. Clinton's two terms were craddled in the lap of prosperity and economic boom. Like Walter said "And that's the way it was"

[TheRealVille]

It's hilarious reading RealVille posts about something that happened when he was what? 9? Listen guys, Jimmy Carter left office a humiliated man. NOBODY cut him an ounce of slack, and that includes the media. He was lampooned on Johnny Carson and by Walter Cronkite. When Carter assumed office he believed, in Nancy Pelosi-esque manner, he could negotiate with the Russians and prevail with them. He was going to be the great man of peace and envisioned himself a world healer. He announced as much to the American public, revealing the details of his proposed SALT II & SALT III talks prior to negotiations with the Soviets,. and prior to their having even seen the proposals, thusly, leaving them (the Russians) no room to dicker. The press literally bar-b-qued Carter, referring to the perception that he had his "feelings hurt" when the Russians one word response was delivered "NYET"

Does anyone other than me remember the ridicule Carter endured as the result of his bass fishing trip? He and his fishing buddy were attacked on the water by a, killer, rabid, rabbit. You can't make this stuff up! The characature of Carter and his buddy in a bass boat, drawing back in terror, as the rabid rabbit came at them in the water, was one for the ages. "CARTER AS GOOD AS REAGAN?' Absurd doesn't even come close. News organizations of that day were staffed by folks of integrity. One really could believe and accept the nightly news as factual. Hence, no quarter was given as Carter dscribed the harrowing account, and his fending off the crazed rabbit with a paddle. These days it has become standard practice to present the news in a manner that 'suggests' the facts in a light that is favorable to the Democrats on all but FOX NEWS. And, of course, what is the favorite target of all other main stream news outlets and the Democratic Party? DUH, FOX NEWS! The sad thing is, only those of us who actually lived through the days when the truth was preferable to the party line, actually has a basis for comparison. Several on here parrot the Democratic talking points as if they were really making an eloquent case.

But, as to Reagan, you can bet Iran back in those days didn't have much to back up their bark. And all you true believers can think what the liberal think tanks tell you to think. I was there and the first Ayatolla Khomeini to ever hit the news didn't have much trouble taking Reagan at his word. During his run-up to the White House Reagan promised the Ayatolla he would be hearing from him. The Russians were somewhat more impressed with him than RealVille is too, as they did in fact, negotiate. And maybe, if you paid attention in history class, you noticed it was Reagan who openly challenged the Soviets when he said "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall" It did come down by the way, in 1989 BEFORE Reagan's second term was up. Just like the economy turned around BEFORE his second term was up. I was there and I can tell one and all, America was comfortably well healed by Mr Reagan's departure. Our nation benefitted greatly by Reagan's policies, and Mr Clinton was no exception, largely due to the rectified ship of state left behind by Reagan, was Mr Clinton able have the success he had. Clinton's two terms were craddled in the lap of prosperity and economic boom. Like Walter said "And that's the way it was"

Try 17. I graduated high school in 1983.

2nd bold: You must have been working non-union then, it wasn't healed in the pipefitting industry. I'm pretty sure the carpenters were in the same boat. I can tell you exactly when the economy started picking up for construction workers in EKY, 1988. That was when Toyota was starting to go full blast, because of the efforts of Martha Layne Collins. On your end TRT, the Ashland Oil construction started picking up big time in 1990, I remember because I was there.

[Hoot Gibson]

Yes, I remember the photos of Carter versus the swimming bunny rabbit - the terrified look on Carter's face as he wielded a paddle to keep the ferocious rabbit from boarding his John boat reinforced Carter's already wimpy public image. A member of Carter's own staff snapped the photos and made them available to the media. I wonder what the Iranians thought of Carter's performance?

The rabbit incident was embarrassing, but to the best of my recollection Carter did not embarrass himself when tossing the first pitch of any baseball seasons. As far as I recall, Carter had an average throwing arm for a man his age.

It would be interesting to see how a young president born with two left arms would react to an aggressive move made by a swimming rabbit. Calling Obama Jimmy Carter II is a bigger insult to Carter than to Obama. nicker:

[TheRealThing]

Speaking of the fallen US soldiers, murdered for burning copies of the Quran. It seems that prisoners there at the base, terrorist, insurgent detainees. Had in times past, written terrorist admonitions to those who might get a chance to read from the pages of the same copy of the Quran while incarcerated there. A kind of underground system of encouragement. According to the Quran, no man may write anything in the Quan, as it is considered a form of blasphemy. By law, recorded with the original writtings of said Quran, any copy found written in, must by law, neccessarily be burned, because it has become defiled.

American soldiers murdered for following the dictates of the Quran. It seems likely to me that these copies of the Quran were provided by the US military forces there at the base. In other words, we tax payers buy insurgents copies of their own holy book and then our troops are murdered for adhering to it's teachings. THEN, of course, our president apologizes in the most sincere of terms to Karzai et-al.

One of the two murdered soldiers was 22 years old. He left behind a wife and 7 month old son. No wonder Mr Obama felt compelled to offer his/our profound apology in this matter. And, Truth is right, all an apology does is enourage these guys, and it is viewed as weakness. The only thing they understand is power. If they knew they'd be bombed into oblivion they would pull in their horns. The most naive president ever, and most novice, sits the first seat in the White House these days. Very much like Carter, Obama lectures people around the world in his liberal beliefs on everything from the green agenda to human rights. Jimmy Carter, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama, all liberals of a feather, and all thinking they can speak softly and not carry a stick. It's the hippy movement of the 60's all over again, "Peace and Love"

Two strong candidates have emerged from the pack for the Republican nomination in Santorum and Romney. Even if Gingrich winds up the nominee, all support a strong military. I hope you're right WideRight, and a lot of people have woke up. Any one of the three I have mentioned would be more than a dramatic improvement.

[TheRealVille]

How old were you in 1983, TRT?

[TheRealThing]

Try 17. I graduated high school in 1983.

2nd bold: You must have been working non-union then, it wasn't healed in the pipefitting industry. I'm pretty sure the carpenters were in the same boat. I can tell you exactly when the economy started picking up for construction workers in EKY, 1988. That was when Toyota was starting to go full blast, because of the efforts of Martha Layne Collins. On your end TRT, the Ashland Oil construction started picking up big time in 1990, I remember because I was there.

Never worked non-union a day in my life. Like I've said before, and I was there too, construction tanks a little later than most other forms of commerce and starts back up a little later than other economic indictors. I don't just work in the industrial market. Half or more of my career I worked the commercial side of union construction. Hospitals, schools, Corps of Engineers, Office buildings etc. and I loved it.

[TheRealThing]

How old were you in 1983, TRT?

This is the first question you've ever asked I am reluctant to answer LOL

[nky]

[Image: http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/image...190022.jpg] Associated Press
Angler Jimmy Carter in 1979, famously fending off a 'killer' swamp rabbit (far right).

[TheRealVille]

This is the first question you've ever asked I am reluctant to answer LOL

Because you, Bob, and Hoot know you don't have me by very much. I was 18 in 1983.

[TheRealVille]

Yes, I remember the photos of Carter versus the swimming bunny rabbit - the terrified look on Carter's face as he wielded a paddle to keep the ferocious rabbit from boarding his John boat reinforced Carter's already wimpy public image. A member of Carter's own staff snapped the photos and made them available to the media. I wonder what the Iranians thought of Carter's performance?

The rabbit incident was embarrassing, but to the best of my recollection Carter did not embarrass himself when tossing the first pitch of any baseball seasons. As far as I recall, Carter had an average throwing arm for a man his age.

It would be interesting to see how a young president born with two left arms would react to an aggressive move made by a swimming rabbit. Calling Obama Jimmy Carter II is a bigger insult to Carter than to Obama. nicker:

[COLOR="Red"]Information is your friend. Hounds chased the rabbit into the water, and it just tried to get into the boat. Only an idiot would portray it any different than it actually was.
[/COLOR]

The Jimmy Carter rabbit incident, dubbed the "killer rabbit" attack by the media, involved a Swamp Rabbit that caught press imagination after swimming toward then-U.S. President Jimmy Carter's fishing boat on April 20, 1979.


Carter had gone on a solo fishing expedition in his hometown of Plains, Georgia. According to the former president, a rabbit being chased by hounds "jumped in the water and swam toward my boat. When he got almost there, I splashed some water with a paddle."[1]
Upon returning to his office, Carter's staff did not believe his story, insisting that rabbits couldn't swim, or that they would never approach a person threateningly.[2] The incident was captured on footage taken by a White House photographer.
Press Secretary Jody Powell mentioned the event to Associated Press correspondent Brooks Jackson on August 28, 1979, who filed the story with the wire service the following day. The story "President Attacked by Rabbit" was carried across the front page of The Washington Post, though the White House's refusal to release the photograph resulted in the newspaper using a cartoon parody of the Jaws poster labeled "PAWS" as its illustration.[4] The White House still refused to release the photograph of the incident to the media until it turned up during the Reagan administration and the story saw a revival.

In Press Secretary Powell's 1986 book The Other Side of the Story, he recounted the story as follows:
“Upon closer inspection, the animal turned out to be a rabbit. Not one of your cutesy, Easter Bunny-type rabbits, but one of those big splay-footed things that we called swamp rabbits when I was growing up."
“The animal was clearly in distress, or perhaps berserk. The President confessed to having had limited experience with enraged rabbits. He was unable to reach a definite conclusion about its state of mind. What was obvious, however, was that this large, wet animal, making strange hissing noises and gnashing its teeth, was intent upon climbing into the Presidential boat.”
The incident with the rabbit became fodder for political and ideological opponents who attempted to frame Carter's presidency as hapless and enfeebled.[5]
The incident was also parodied by Grammy Award-winning folk singer Tom Paxton in his song "I Don't Want a Bunny Wunny" which appears on his 1980 album The Paxton Report. The lyrics can be found here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carte...t_incident

[Hoot Gibson]

[COLOR="Red"]Information is your friend. Hounds chased the rabbit into the water, and it just tried to get into the boat. Only an idiot would portray it any different than it actually was.
[/COLOR]

Information is my friend and misinformation is your buddy. What made a lasting impression was Carter's reaction to the rabbit swimming toward him. The rabbit photos did some serious damage to Carter's image but as a young teenager at the time, it is understandable that you did not notice. How and why the rabbit ended up paddling toward Carter is irrelevant.

However, at your age, there is no excuse to remain so deeply ignorant of Carter's role the Iranian hostage crisis. Revisionist history is worse than no history at all.

[TheRealVille]

Information is my friend and misinformation is your buddy. What made a lasting impression was Carter's reaction to the rabbit swimming toward him. The rabbit photos did some serious damage to Carter's image but as a young teenager at the time, it is understandable that you did not notice. How and why the rabbit ended up paddling toward Carter is irrelevant.

However, at your age, there is no excuse to remain so deeply ignorant of Carter's role the Iranian hostage crisis. Revisionist history is worse than no history at all.

I don't see you revealing your age at the time. You were what, a whopping four years older than me? You were so knowledgeable by then.

[TheRealVille]

Information is my friend and misinformation is your buddy. What made a lasting impression was Carter's reaction to the rabbit swimming toward him. The rabbit photos did some serious damage to Carter's image but as a young teenager at the time, it is understandable that you did not notice. How and why the rabbit ended up paddling toward Carter is irrelevant.

However, at your age, there is no excuse to remain so deeply ignorant of Carter's role the Iranian hostage crisis. Revisionist history is worse than no history at all.

C'mon Hoot, let's see your knowledgeable age. What makes you an expert of the time? You call me a teenager in Carter's time, how old were you, in 1979?

[TheRealVille]

This is the first question you've ever asked I am reluctant to answer LOL

I would guess that you know Grover Arnett, or Eric Conn.

[Hoot Gibson]

C'mon Hoot, let's see your knowledgeable age. What makes you an expert of the time? You call me a teenager in Carter's time, how old were you, in 1979?

I was a UK student in 1979 and had many Iranian engineering students in my classes. The Iranian students at UK were deeply divided politically and it was not unusual to hear them arguing loudly in the halls (in Farsi). There was at least one instance where an anti-Shah student stabbed a pro-Shah student.

One of my best friends was an Iranian political exile who ran a large Iranian TV station before he fled the country. Massoud was quite a bit older than the rest of our friends and hated both the Shah and the fanatics who overthrew him. We often discussed politics over shots of tequila, in part because if was the biggest news story of the time, and in part because Massoud had left his wife and young daughter behind when he came to this country a few years earlier.

I remember Massoud telling me that part of the foreign aid that the US sent to Iran during the Shah's reign was used to modernize their farms. He said that many farmers traded in their beasts of burden for shiny new tractors. The problem, he explained, was that when the tractors broke down, there were no spare parts available in Iran. He said that the fields were full of relatively new tractors rusting away. This was one factor that he cited as creating anti-American sentiment among the uneducated rural Iranians who eventually revolted against the Shah's government.

What deep knowledge of Iran did you have as a 15 year old high school kid? Or were you still in middle school when Carter was both undermining the Shah's government and mismanaging the hostage situation?

[TheRealVille]

This is the first question you've ever asked I am reluctant to answer LOL

Are you a fake retirement age person that was represented by Grover or Eric C., or another social security lawyer?

[Hoot Gibson]

Are you a fake retirement age person that was represented by Grover or Eric C., or another social security lawyer?

What does this have to do with Obama's apology? It sounds like an attempt to smear somebody's reputation or divulge enough information to allow others to guess somebody's identity. Why don't you get back on topic and get off the tangents?

[Bob Seger]

Because you, Bob, and Hoot know you don't have me by very much. I was 18 in 1983.

I was 26.

[vundy33]

Well, we fulfilled BO's promise and withdrew from Afghanistan. Now, only a few months later, all legitimate reports indicate that the Taliban is returning Afghanistan to how it was prior to out intervention. Too bad for rights in general and for women in particular. Is anyone really surprised?

I believe we should quit fighting these politically correct wars. Either go in to win completely or keep out. Use whatever level of force it takes to win or stay home. After all, our foes, particularly these wild-eyed, terrorist Muslims would destroy all of us in a minute if the could do so. BO's policy of appeasement doesn't impress any of them one iota. All it does is further weaken our country.

Does anyone think our trained and experienced military leaders agree with BO? They are trained to follow orders regardless of the stupidity of those orders. Too bad they don't have freedom of speech as do our retired military leaders who continually condemn BO for his ineptness and weakness.

Are you serious?!!? Tell me, where did you see we have withdrew from Afghanistan? We still have a huge troop amount and we're still doing just as many offensive operations as we were doing this time last year! Pay attention! How could you even debate on the matter if you actually think we've pulled out of Afghan and the "Taliban" is returned?! You're about two years early on that man!

[TheRealVille]

I was a UK student in 1979 and had many Iranian engineering students in my classes. The Iranian students at UK were deeply divided politically and it was not unusual to hear them arguing loudly in the halls (in Farsi). There was at least one instance where an anti-Shah student stabbed a pro-Shah student.

One of my best friends was an Iranian political exile who ran a large Iranian TV station before he fled the country. Massoud was quite a bit older than the rest of our friends and hated both the Shah and the fanatics who overthrew him. We often discussed politics over shots of tequila, in part because if was the biggest news story of the time, and in part because Massoud had left his wife and young daughter behind when he came to this country a few years earlier.

I remember Massoud telling me that part of the foreign aid that the US sent to Iran during the Shah's reign was used to modernize their farms. He said that many farmers traded in their beasts of burden for shiny new tractors. The problem, he explained, was that when the tractors broke down, there were no spare parts available in Iran. He said that the fields were full of relatively new tractors rusting away. This was one factor that he cited as creating anti-American sentiment among the uneducated rural Iranians who eventually revolted against the Shah's government.

What deep knowledge of Iran did you have as a 15 year old high school kid? Or were you still in middle school when Carter was both undermining the Shah's government and mismanaging the hostage situation?

Ok, so you've got me by 4 years.

[vundy33]

Speaking of the fallen US soldiers, murdered for burning copies of the Quran. It seems that prisoners there at the base, terrorist, insurgent detainees. Had in times past, written terrorist admonitions to those who might get a chance to read from the pages of the same copy of the Quran while incarcerated there. A kind of underground system of encouragement. According to the Quran, no man may write anything in the Quan, as it is considered a form of blasphemy. By law, recorded with the original writtings of said Quran, any copy found written in, must by law, neccessarily be burned, because it has become defiled.

American soldiers murdered for following the dictates of the Quran. It seems likely to me that these copies of the Quran were provided by the US military forces there at the base. In other words, we tax payers buy insurgents copies of their own holy book and then our troops are murdered for adhering to it's teachings. THEN, of course, our president apologizes in the most sincere of terms to Karzai et-al.

One of the two murdered soldiers was 22 years old. He left behind a wife and 7 month old son. No wonder Mr Obama felt compelled to offer his/our profound apology in this matter. And, Truth is right, all an apology does is enourage these guys, and it is viewed as weakness. The only thing they understand is power. If they knew they'd be bombed into oblivion they would pull in their horns. The most naive president ever, and most novice, sits the first seat in the White House these days. Very much like Carter, Obama lectures people around the world in his liberal beliefs on everything from the green agenda to human rights. Jimmy Carter, Nancy Pelosi, and Barack Obama, all liberals of a feather, and all thinking they can speak softly and not carry a stick. It's the hippy movement of the 60's all over again, "Peace and Love"

Two strong candidates have emerged from the pack for the Republican nomination in Santorum and Romney. Even if Gingrich winds up the nominee, all support a strong military. I hope you're right WideRight, and a lot of people have woke up. Any one of the three I have mentioned would be more than a dramatic improvement.

I lol'd hard when you posted above about the rabbid rabbit and Pres Carter, hahahaha. Just wanted to add that.

Now, first of all, some of you need to read a bit more on this Quran burning problem we're having right now...

For one, our soldiers aren't getting "murdered", it's KIA. It's as simple as that. We all know what can happen when shit hits the fan. We don't say we "murdered" 5 derp derps today, we say we got 5 EKIA. This is war, it's not the street. The different news companies like to use "murder" to kind of make it sink in a little more..but it has the opposite effect. It gives people the idea that this doesn't happen as often as it is now...the only reason you guys or anyone else really knows about these boys who were killed is because of how they were killed. If it was in a battle, it wouldn't have even been brought up.

Secondly, we do not follow the laws of the Quran or Islam when dealing with detainee's religious crap. These detainees write crap in their Qurans every single time they have the chance too...anybody that has dealt with them know how stupid they are for wanting to kill us in the name of their God, and then doing the exact things that God says are no-nos over and over and over. We have strict guidelines set up to avoid this exact type of scenario. These Qurans weren't supposed to be in this burn pit obviously...the normal way we get rid of them is to recycle them, which I'm sure would make Afghan Muslims cry a bit too. But yeah, this was the mistake of two young soldiers and some Afghan workers...that's about it.

Finally...aplogizing to the Afghan people is not the President's job!! Gah, I'm really getting sick of this of Pres Obama and other top brass in the Admin sticking their nose into our shit whenever they feel they need too, and all they do is give us more enemies. As high as this should've went on that chain is our joke of a commander GEN John Allen, and that is IT. And he should have said the same thing we always do, not apologize 8 damn times in one paragraph! We always say something to the effect of "It's unfortunate, and this action does not represent the feelings of our armed forces"...that's exactly how it goes. Not an apology! It's ridiculous! This just shows how far our leadership, or lack thereof, is from OUR war. It's not their war, it doesn't bother them a damn bit.

[vundy33]

What does age have to do with the debate at hand guys? Come on, stay on topic.