[Hoot Gibson]

This controversy is not about contraception - it is about a tyrannical power grab and an assault on the First Amendment. A good part of the blame belongs to Republican non-leaders in Congress. There is no balance of power with McConnel and Boehner running the Republlican show. Watching Obama trample on the Constitution repeatedly and the Republican Party's weak response is like watching a team with a touchdown lead after a quarter go into a prevent defense for the rest of the game. They have done nothing but try to avoid making big mistakes, counting on Obama to turn the balll over without even absorbing a hard hit.

Now these same rudderless leaders tell us that we need to nominate the most liberal Republican in the race to have a shot at stopping Obama from running up the score and celebrate by throwing confetti that was our Constitution. It's not halftime, it's midway through the fourth quarter.

[Hoot Gibson]

Does your employer provide you with insurance? If so, nothing changes for them. And I will go out on a limb, and say nothing changes for the biggest percentage of employers, just like the 2% figure that the website is saying. As per the website, most large employers(more than 50 employees) provide insurance anyway. I don't know of many larger companies that don't provide it.

BTW, you did notice that I put "at least in my case", right?



http://www.healthcare.gov/using-insuranc...index.html

What I noticed is that you started your reply to my post by informing me that I was wrong. In fact, nothing in my post was wrong. Since we are discussing a large organization, the Catholic Churh, I posted about the employer mandate. The individuall mandate has nothing to do with this discussion. It's just a red herring that you threw out to obscure the real issue.

[TheRealVille]

What I noticed is that you started your reply to my post by informing me that I was wrong. In fact, nothing in my post was wrong. Since we are discussing a large organization, the Catholic Churh, I posted about the employer mandate. The individuall mandate has nothing to do with this discussion. It's just a red herring that you threw out to obscure the real issue.

Doesn't your, and most large companies provide insurance anyway? Anyway, I read somewhere in an article, that the catholic church isn't going to have to provide the contraception, it will be their insurance companies, so why would they care? Of course, I will admit that I haven't read up on much about the contraception thing much. You are in Washington, run for office if you can help them out so much. Crying on a little EKY sports board isn't going to help much. Or, are you just trying to impress all the EKY people on how politically smart you are?

[TheRealVille]

What I find odd is the the "catholic church" doesn't like birth control, and it's a sin, but a large percentage of their parishioners use it. Another thing, the parishioners, for the most part, are for the Obama birth control thing. It's the bishops that are opposing it.

[LWC]

^The parishioners can really muddy-up good doctrines sometimes. Not to throw stones in a glass house, ministers can as well.

Many denominations/religions have great theology, but their people mess it up. Just because Catholics are choosing not to practice their faith doesn't mean the faith is any less important or meaningful. Just like parishioners that do not choose to "be holy because I am holy", it doesn't make Jesus' teachings irrelevant or less important.

[Truth]

I wonder if the Catholic Bishops will see though this shell game?

Indeed the "Obama Accommodation" is nothing other than a thinly-veiled shell game.

Should the bishops see through it? Of course. It is so obvious that one doesn't have to be particularly intelligent to see what Obama is up to in this matter.

Will the bishops have enough backbone to go to whatever means may be necessary to defend this most sacred of Church tenets? Well, the bishops, particularly the American bishops, haven't shown a lot of courage in the past. I can't think of a situation more important than this for the Church and its leaders to take an absolute and unwavering stand. We'll see and, as liberals like to say, the whole world is watching. The integrity of the Catholic Church is at stake.

And, again, the Protestants with sincere beliefs are on trial also.

[RunItUpTheGut]

I find it hard to believe that something like birth control can be such a big deal when we have people struggling to eat.
I hope he atleast moves forward to the economy somewhere in the last year of his presidency.

[Hoot Gibson]

Doesn't your, and most large companies provide insurance anyway? Anyway, I read somewhere in an article, that the catholic church isn't going to have to provide the contraception, it will be their insurance companies, so why would they care? Of course, I will admit that I haven't read up on much about the contraception thing much. You are in Washington, run for office if you can help them out so much. Crying on a little EKY sports board isn't going to help much. Or, are you just trying to impress all the EKY people on how politically smart you are?

Typical RV posting. You tell somebody that they are wrong and it turns out that you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about, so you start with the personal attacks instead of just admitting that you were mistaken.

It matters to the Catholic Church because they will be paying for things like the morning after pill, which it considers a form of abortion. What liberals seem unable to understand is that nothing in life is free - somebody has to pay. Insurance companies will not be providing anything free - they will raise the premiums that they charge their customers to cover their costs. There is a consitutional issue involved but liberals seem to focused on themselves to get worked up over somebody else's constitutional rights being trampled.

[Bob Seger]

Typical RV posting. You tell somebody that they are wrong and it turns out that you are the one who doesn't know what you are talking about, so you start with the personal attacks instead of just admitting that you were mistaken.

It matters to the Catholic Church because they will be paying for things like the morning after pill, which it considers a form of abortion. What liberals seem unable to understand is that nothing in life is free - somebody has to pay. Insurance companies will not be providing anything free - they will raise the premiums that they charge their customers to cover their costs. There is a consitutional issue involved but liberals seem to focused on themselves to get worked up over somebody else's constitutional rights being trampled.

Ah, but if it were perceived that the gay community or a Muslim belief was being trampled on, you can bet the liberal fur would fly.

And you are right. There is nothing free to anyone about it. I was amazed how many times this idiot kept referring to this as "free" in his attempt to get himself out of the political pickle he got himself into. Either the premiums to the employer or to the individual policy holder will be raised to cover the coverage. I am going to give Obama a benefit of a doubt however. Obama has never in his life ever held a real job and I would say that the man is just plain to ignorant to figure out how the insurance process even works. And this is the man, that we in this country have voted into office to lead the free world. The American people have got to be the dumbest collection of people on the planet.

[Hoot Gibson]

I find it hard to believe that something like birth control can be such a big deal when we have people strugging to eat.
I hope he atleast moves forward to the economy somewhere in the last year of his presidency.

The issue isn't contraception it is whether we are going to have a government that does not respect the Constitution. If Obama keeps pushing us down the road toward a totalitarian government, where our president is free to pick and choose which of our Constitutional rights he can respect and which ones are outdated, then an increasing number of people will struggle to put food on the table.

Under Obama, our government has spent over $1 trillion more than it has taken in during each year that he has been in office and we are less free than we have ever been. We will all pay for putting this would-be dictator into office and if people elect him to a secon term, we can expect him to make more "bold changes" over the next four years as he ""fundamentally transforms" our government.

[Hoot Gibson]

Ah, but if it were perceived that the gay community or a Muslim belief was being trampled on, you can bet the liberal fur would fly.

Good point, Bob. Nobody cares more about the Constitution than liberals when it can be twisted to serve their selfish interests. The same people who believe that the First Amendment prohibits teachers and coaches from allowing prayer in their presence have no problem with forcing people to buy morning after pills over their concientious objections. I would say its unbelievable but it is the kind of hypocrisy that the rest of us have come to expect.

[Truth]

Many good points are being made in the above posts. Too bad the conservative media isn't emphasizing these points as it should be doing. Of course, the liberal media (all except Fox) will ignore the real core issues to paint the issue as "protecting" the healthcare of women.

However, I think we have overlooked one other serious issue. Under what constitutional provision is a president empowered to force a private industry (insurance companies) to provide "free" services? There is nothing in the commerce clause or in the rest of the document and its amendments to suggest that a president has such powers. Obama's acts are, again, in violation of the constitution. It's up to the Republican leaders and thinking Democrats to ram all this down his throat. Sadly, I doubt they have enough courage to do so.

And. if you think Obama is radical now (Aren't most all community organizers who have never held a real job?), wait until he is reelected and faces no more elections. He is in the process of wrecking the First Amendment religious freedoms as well as starting on freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Do any of you really doubt that, after November, more of the First Amendment, the Second Amendment and the Tenth Amendment (State's Rights) are next? Then, if you are still functioning, look for an assault on the Fourth Amendment and the Fifth Amendment. And so it will go.

If you find this post a bit paranoid, just look at what he has done by executive fiat so far.

[TheRealVille]

I'm still wondering why the conservatives on board bitch and whine with different threads on politics. You already have everybody on board with you, except maybe 5 of us. You will never in a million years change the minds of the "liberals" on here. Why waste time? What good does it do to bitch and whine to the choir? If anything, all you accomplish with all the half-truths and right wing propaganda is push us further away. I know me, for one, when I read your stuff, all I want to do is vote the other direction even more. People like Hoot and Truth, that talk down to the rest of us, like we are "political idiots", just push us further away from their point of view. Being far right conservative isn't the only view, and not even the only right view. There are 2-3 conservative talking people on here that earn their respect on their views, but the others run everybody further away. Truth be known, if everybody would tell it, Hoot has run more people into the arms of the democrats than he has gained for the conservatives.

[Hoot Gibson]

I'm still wondering why the conservatives on board bitch and whine with different threads on politics. You already have everybody on board with you, except maybe 5 of us. You will never in a million years change the minds of the "liberals" on here. Why waste time? What good does it do to bitch and whine to the choir? If anything, all you accomplish with all the half-truths and right wing propaganda is push us further away. I know me, for one, when I read your stuff, all I want to do is vote the other direction even more. People like Hoot and Truth, that talk down to the rest of us, like we are "political idiots", just push us further away from their point of view. Being far right conservative isn't the only view, and not even the only right view. There are 2-3 conservative talking people on here that earn their respect on their views, but the others run everybody further away.

:please: So when you vote for Obama in November, your excuse is going to be that Truth and Hoot drove yout to the left? Whose fault was it that you voted for him in 2008? :lmao:

[TheRealVille]

:please: So when you vote for Obama in November, your excuse is going to be that Truth and Hoot drove yout to the left? Whose fault was it that you voted for him in 2008? :lmao:

If I vote for him in November, I will have solace that I personally killed your vote. And BTW, my wife will kill your wife's vote. :biggrin:

[Hoot Gibson]

If I vote for him in November, I will have solace that I personally killed your vote. And BTW, my wife will kill your wife's vote. :biggrin:

It's a case of when and not if but unless you move to Virginia, your vote will not cancel mine and there is no way that Obama will carry Kentucky anyway.

[TheRealVille]

It's a case of when and not if but unless you move to Virginia, your vote will not cancel mine and there is no way that Obama will carry Kentucky anyway.

I'll kill nky's and Truth's vote then. :biggrin: The first time my little buddy Wildcat get's to place a vote for Obama, I just can't leave him hanging.

[nky]

I've got three voters in my house

[Truth]

I'll kill nky's and Truth's vote then. :biggrin: The first time my little buddy Wildcat get's to place a vote for Obama, I just can't leave him hanging.

When you kill my vote, TheRealVille, you will be killing a lot more than my vote. If your vote is successful, you may well be helping kill the foundation upon which this country was founded and built. Those who doubt this do so at their own peril. Obama's pedigree, upbringing, education, associations, mentors, and agenda should make this obvious to anyone who can comprehend reality. In the first term, you saw Obama's potential for destruction. In a second term, with no elections to face in his future, you will see the true born and bred radical.

[TheRealVille]

When you kill my vote, TheRealVille, you will be killing a lot more than my vote. If your vote is successful, you may well be helping kill the foundation upon which this country was founded and built. Those who doubt this do so at their own peril. Obama's pedigree, upbringing, education, associations, mentors, and agenda should make this obvious to anyone who can comprehend reality. In the first term, you saw Obama's potential for destruction. In a second term, with no elections to face in his future, you will see the true born and bred radical.

Yours comes from a conservative viewpoint though. A lot of people don't see things the way you do.

[TheRealVille]

I've got three voters in my house

I got two, and Wildcat23. That makes 3.

[Truth]

Yours comes from a conservative viewpoint though. A lot of people don't see things the way you do.

My viewpoint is far more than a "conservative" viewpoint as you, as a liberal, would define "conservative". My viewpoint is that of one who believes in absolutes. I believe the basic tenets of life, the rules and duties of the Church, compassion for the truly needy, and the support of life are not negotiable as do you liberals. If we have no absolutes, why are we here?

I see Obama as a serious threat to traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs. This isn't new. He has always been a threat and his background, upbringing, mentoring, and arrogance merely confirm his agenda.

Of course, I realize that union leaders, social engineers, most in "higher" education, under performing college students motivated by the free checks that come with college registration, many of all races living on government handouts, etc. love you liberals and Obama. You buy them and they are too ignorant to think. After all, it is much easier to cash government checks than it is to produce anything meaningful. Sadly for the sake of the country, these may be the majority.

Nonetheless, to those who actually work for a living (thus giving the government the funds to provide for the growing group of non-contributors), Obama is a serious danger. He cannot indentify with real working people because he has never held a job outside of government.

[Hoot Gibson]

Obama did briefly hold a private sector job for a few months. He refers to those years as the period during which he worked "behind enemy lines." Obama is not new to the war on capitalism, he has spent a lifetime preparing to destroy the American economy.

[TheRealThing]

My viewpoint is far more than a "conservative" viewpoint as you, as a liberal, would define "conservative". My viewpoint is that of one who believes in absolutes. I believe the basic tenets of life, the rules and duties of the Church, compassion for the truly needy, and the support of life are not negotiable as do you liberals. If we have no absolutes, why are we here?

I see Obama as a serious threat to traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs. This isn't new. He has always been a threat and his background, upbringing, mentoring, and arrogance merely confirm his agenda.

Of course, I realize that union leaders, social engineers, most in "higher" education, under performing college students motivated by the free checks that come with college registration, many of all races living on government handouts, etc. love you liberals and Obama. You buy them and they are too ignorant to think. After all, it is much easier to cash government checks than it is to produce anything meaningful. Sadly for the sake of the country, these may be the majority.

Nonetheless, to those who actually work for a living (thus giving the government the funds to provide for the growing group of non-contributors), Obama is a serious danger. He cannot indentify with real working people because he has never held a job outside of government.

Truth, you have hit on something that from my viewpoint is profound. At the core of all liberalism is one basic seemlingly insignificant philosophical belief, there are no absolutes. Contast that to the fact that once, the American general public and consequently, those in circles of governance once shared a clearly defined sense of right and wrong, and, the two of which were seperated by an equally unmistakeable line of demarcation. In those days of our nation's existence our legal system worked rather flawlessly. The reason? There were in fact absolutes! Since violations of law were under subjection to our clearly defined principles of right and wrong it was easy to exhonerate the innocent or, convict criminals.

In my mind that line of demarcation that once seperated right and wrong has been widened to become what I like to call, a 'vast grey area of debate and dispute.' I mean, one can see the result of our inablility to stand up for what is right at every level of our national workings. From the gridlock of State and Federal government (and that especially includes the circus that has replaced our legal system which, at one time was the envy of the world), to our elementary school systems and our military. We don't know what we stand for anymore. All we know is TOLERANCE, nobody is wrong anymore, they're just different. So, criminals can't be prosecuted, laws have become so broad they are meaningless, all brances of government at all levels have become impotent, government has decided they know it all and now regulate the church and it's only a question of time until schools will be required to provide birth control, morning/week after pills, abortion (unknown to parents) and condoms to grade schoolers. Today in America one can murder anyone they want and face a neutered and toothless legal system. But, commit what may be considered a hate crime or constued as racially biased and Theodore Roosevelt's Rough Riders couldn't have held a candle to the charge Eric Holder and corps would mount in retaliation! Meanwhile, if Iran closes the Strait of Hormuz, we will likely lay down like a watch dog that has become all bark and no bite.

Is it just me or are the liberals always arguing for more government control on these matters? Folks, what will it take to bring realization to the minds of Americans that we are being LEGISLATED into submission by liberals who have quite cleverly learned to use law and the courts as the ultimate bully? This cancer of society that started in the 60's and was first defined to me in a song written by Billy Preston, "Will It Go Round In Circles" let the bad guy win every once in a while, has eaten it's way through everything moral. I lived through the sexual revolution of the 60's. It may best be characterized and defined by saying it was rebellion for the sake of rebellion. Since then they've (liberals) managed to throw God out of government, the courts and the school systems and, we have begun to reap the whirlwind for our arrogance. It is worth noting the recent resurgence of this very same lunacy that has been renamed and given a new suit to wear down to America's downtown street corners and public parks to the "Occupy Wall Steet Movement."

Without absolutes, we have become rudderless of late. It is my firm conviction that we cannot remain a free people if we cannot realize that to be free requires some absolute beliefs and commitment. How can we rightfully defend ourselves if we can't do so on moral grounds? What right or authority would we cite? We threw the Author and Finisher's work out the window, which of course, is God's Law. We had right on our side in WWI and WWII. That's why we could pass muster, when it came to defending our land against the likes of Hitler et-al. Now that we can't really say what we believe anymore, it has become increasingly difficult to stand by our long time conservative principles. How would one reasonable justify any stand at all when the only acceptable guiding principle politically correct enough to survive a hail of debate, is human rights? The fall of Rome occurred in exactly this way, the once noble Roman Senate became paralyzed by endless debate. Because tolerance trumped any reason, gridlock rendered the lawmaking and lawenforcement impossible. I believe this principle of self destruction has happened time and again throughout history and, we apparently will fall victim as well.

America is in the throes of redefining herself. The fight is being waged in the halls of our legislatures and courtrooms across this land. Since this fight represents two sides, conservative vs liberal, or traditional (our American Heritage) vs change (fundamental transformation), the two sides neccessarily chose to align themselves with one of the two existing credible political parties of our day, the Republicans or the Democrats. Because
Democrats have encouraged growth through recruitment, they have more readily opened their arms to the idea of moderating their platform to include what has become known as special interests. Thusly, becoming a naturally attractive alternative for liberals. The Republicans, (though certainly not perfect) have been more resistant to platform changes and philosophies and have therefore been a little more rigid and not so open to special interest groups. Winding up at odds with the Democrats, whether by design or by default, espousing the conservative side of the argument. To me it is trully chilling to observe the endless assault on conservativism and the Christian Church in the form of legislation and law suits, by the likes of the ACLU and other liberal organizations.

America stands at the precipice, but, unlike the fabled lemming, we can choose not to jump into oblivion. It has come down to this; if America reelects Mr Obama to a second term, I believe the ramifications will be irreversible. The liberal will gain so much power and, change so much of what I know to be the life blood of America, the "fundamental transformation" promised by Mr Obama will likely be set in stone. The only people that will be celebrating at that point will be our national enemies and the no-work occupyesque rebels who are the darlings of the uber left and the present administration. The rest of us will be powerless to do a thing about it. What a gift and precious commodity is our vote!

[vundy33]

Since then they've (liberals) managed to throw God out of government, the courts and the school systems and, we have begun to reap the whirlwind for our arrogance.

God doesn't belong in government, the courts or the school systems! When are you going to realize this?!?!

[Truth]

God doesn't belong in government, the courts or the school systems! When are you going to realize this?!?!

What does belong in our government, courts, and school systems. None of the three are producing positive results as they now operate.

[SKINNYPIG]

God doesn't just belong, He is in everything. When are you going to realize this?

[TheRealVille]

God doesn't just belong, He is in everything. When are you going to realize this?

Prove he's even real. God has no place in our government, keep him in your churches. If the monstrous America is so "god led", why weren't they mentioned in the bible? People like you are the very reason liberals like me exist.

[vundy33]

SP, I didn't mean it how you took it. I mean that religion just doesn't belong in those three, at all. Not as a subject to be taught in schools, not as a tool to judge in the courts, and not for any possible thing people try to throw religion into in government. It just doesn't.

All religion does, besides it's positive effects on individuals, is give those in power the chance to be biased towards one or the other. We've seen it time and time again through the years all over the world.

[vundy33]

I believe in God, and I am a conservative. But I do not believe religion, any religion, should be involved in governmental decisions, or public schools, or in the court of law. Just can't do anything positive, and just causes turmoil...the opposite of what it is supposed to do.