[Bibbs]

If anything the '82 team had more physical lineman. This team has more talented skilled players. If we can get a good line together we could be just as good I think. The only skill player we can't match is Duncan Jacobs,but this team has on the whole more skilled players. This team isn't that far away from a good line. We only lose two and surely we can fill those places. I think the key is to get the linemen we have more mentally and physically tough. I think we had alot of minor injuries that people sat out for that should not have been. I also know me saying that is gonna get some people riled up but it is true. Me and some of the old Dragon's were talking about it a few weeks back and we all came to that conclusion. My senior year I played with a broken arm for which I had a rubber cast made for games and against Lynn camp that year I had several injuries for which I could have stayed out and healed but I played through it and never missed a game. The other old guy's said that the kid's today just aren't as tough. I don't believe that. I think They just need to learn you can play through it. Only trouble is I don't know how you teach that.

I've read all these comments and tried to stay quiet. However you guys keep switching up blame, first the kids didn't want it enough, then its injuries, then the kids aren't as tough as before, now you are on the line, and that is where I can't stay quiet. No doubt, we need better line play and the ones we have need to work harder in the weight room, but just like the "skilled kids" (that term drives me crazy), the talent level goes way down real quick once you get past the original starters from early in the year pre-injury. You have some big guys who have the body but not the mind, you have some undersized guys trying to block like they are 260 when they are 190. You have some really young kids who are making freshman mistakes. I happen to think its multiple reasons. You guys have left out one group that shoulders some blame and they aren't kids. It takes everybody from the waterboy up to win and it takes everyone from the head coach down to lose. We haven't been right since Middlesboro even in the wins. We haven't thrown as well, caught as well, blocked as well, tackled as well, kicked as well, run as well, or anything since then. Williamsburg peaked this past Friday, we peaked at Middlesboro. Injuries, coaching, toughness, classroom work, EGOs!, believing the press, off season work, you name it. You can't blame it on any one thing or group. They all need work and may need some key changes in the program. If you keep getting this far year after year with different levels of talent, should you look for the constant for at least part of an explanation? I'm not pretending to know, but switching blame from group to group is silly.

[Dragonsdad]

I've read all these comments and tried to stay quiet. However you guys keep switching up blame, first the kids didn't want it enough, then its injuries, then the kids aren't as tough as before, now you are on the line, and that is where I can't stay quiet. No doubt, we need better line play and the ones we have need to work harder in the weight room, but just like the "skilled kids" (that term drives me crazy), the talent level goes way down real quick once you get past the original starters from early in the year pre-injury. You have some big guys who have the body but not the mind, you have some undersized guys trying to block like they are 260 when they are 190. You have some really young kids who are making freshman mistakes. I happen to think its multiple reasons. You guys have left out one group that shoulders some blame and they aren't kids. It takes everybody from the waterboy up to win and it takes everyone from the head coach down to lose. We haven't been right since Middlesboro even in the wins. We haven't thrown as well, caught as well, blocked as well, tackled as well, kicked as well, run as well, or anything since then. Williamsburg peaked this past Friday, we peaked at Middlesboro. Injuries, coaching, toughness, classroom work, EGOs!, believing the press, off season work, you name it. You can't blame it on any one thing or group. They all need work and may need some key changes in the program. If you keep getting this far year after year with different levels of talent, should you look for the constant for at least part of an explanation? I'm not pretending to know, but switching blame from group to group is silly.

No comment.

[hitemup]

I've read all these comments and tried to stay quiet. However you guys keep switching up blame, first the kids didn't want it enough, then its injuries, then the kids aren't as tough as before, now you are on the line, and that is where I can't stay quiet. No doubt, we need better line play and the ones we have need to work harder in the weight room, but just like the "skilled kids" (that term drives me crazy), the talent level goes way down real quick once you get past the original starters from early in the year pre-injury. You have some big guys who have the body but not the mind, you have some undersized guys trying to block like they are 260 when they are 190. You have some really young kids who are making freshman mistakes. I happen to think its multiple reasons. You guys have left out one group that shoulders some blame and they aren't kids. It takes everybody from the waterboy up to win and it takes everyone from the head coach down to lose. We haven't been right since Middlesboro even in the wins. We haven't thrown as well, caught as well, blocked as well, tackled as well, kicked as well, run as well, or anything since then. Williamsburg peaked this past Friday, we peaked at Middlesboro. Injuries, coaching, toughness, classroom work, EGOs!, believing the press, off season work, you name it. You can't blame it on any one thing or group. They all need work and may need some key changes in the program. If you keep getting this far year after year with different levels of talent, should you look for the constant for at least part of an explanation? I'm not pretending to know, but switching blame from group to group is silly.

If you are going to say that it is the coach's/coaches' fault then say it. Don't beat around the bush. I think that they all share equal blame; however, the coach can only prepare players. If it was a bad game plan then that is the coaches' fault, but if it was a good game plan that was not executed then that is the kids' fault.

[UKFan8]

In this case, could it not have just been that Williamsburg played really well? Williamsburg has a really young team, yet a very talented team. They are riding a wave of momentum, they were playing at home, and all of those young kids have bought into Coach Herron and his staff. Congratulations to Williamsburg for that!

As for Harlan, I would say that the Williamsburg and Middlesboro games were their best of the season, but I wouldn't necessarily say they peaked then, rather I would say those were the games that they had their complete "unit" and were at full strength. I saw kids out there trying and battling that were injured and probably wouldn't have been playing if they had worthy replacements. I guess I just don't see this as anyone's "fault", but rather I see this as a really young team playing at home with a ton of confidence right now that are just now learning and buying into their coach's system. This is not a discredit to Williamsburg, but when Harlan was playing at home, completely healthy, it was a different story. Playing on the road in the playoffs is not easy, especially against a hot, confident team. Harlan will be fine, especially next year where again, I could see the Dragons going deep into the playoffs. However, the key, is getting over that hump and defeating Hazard so that you get multiple playoff games at home. Then, you have a chance to make some real noise in the playoffs. However, I thought this was the year that Harlan could compete with Hazard with the way they battled over at Daniel Field two years ago and then, this year, coming back with a veteran squad playing at home. The task will be a little tougher next year winning at Hazard. But, Harlan will have a ton of seniors, good skill kids, and I agree with HDE, if they can get a little stronger up front and a little more depth up front (which I really feel is the key), then look for good things from the Dragons in 2012!

Until then,best of luck Williamsburg in the Regional Finals and congratulationsh to Coach Jerry Herron and staff! You guys earned it!

[wildone89]

The bottom line is to win and go deep in the playoffs you must be able to run the ball and stop the run period. Harlan didn't do either of the two and never really tried to run the ball until they started having offensive problems. Look at the mnt teams that make runs to the finals. Belfry, Bell, Johnson Central, all run the football and all are pretty good against the run. The only other team would be Halcomb and the bobcats and the 2 titles those teams ran the ball pretty darn good and had great defenses. Stats are great but winning is better?

[UKFan8]

The bottom line is to win and go deep in the playoffs you must be able to run the ball and stop the run period. Harlan didn't do either of the two and never really tried to run the ball until they started having offensive problems. Look at the mnt teams that make runs to the finals. Belfry, Bell, Johnson Central, all run the football and all are pretty good against the run. The only other team would be Halcomb and the bobcats and the 2 titles those teams ran the ball pretty darn good and had great defenses. Stats are great but winning is better?

True in most cases, but being good at running the football and stopping the run doesn't always ensure victory. I'm pretty sure that Alabama is pretty solid at stopping the run, but that didn't equal victory against LSU a couple weeks ago.

Furthermore, I agree that Johnson Central has a pretty good running attack as well, but having said that, they went out in Rd. 2 to Ft. Thomas Highlands by giving up 67 points last week.

I agree that Harlan didn't establish themselves quite as much as they probably would've liked with the run, but at the same time, Williams was plagued by injuries the last half of the year and in my opinion, that hurt Harlan more than anything from the Leslie Co. game to the end of the season. So yes, ground game is important, but you run the ball and stop the run with good offensive and defensive lineman, which was the point that I eluded to in my previous post. That's where the Dragons need to improve, and if they do, look for Harlan to make a deep run with that Senior Class in 2012!

[wildone89]

True in most cases, but being good at running the football and stopping the run doesn't always ensure victory. I'm pretty sure that Alabama is pretty solid at stopping the run, but that didn't equal victory against LSU a couple weeks ago.

Furthermore, I agree that Johnson Central has a pretty good running attack as well, but having said that, they went out in Rd. 2 to Ft. Thomas Highlands by giving up 67 points last week.

I agree that Harlan didn't establish themselves quite as much as they probably would've liked with the run, but at the same time, Williams was plagued by injuries the last half of the year and in my opinion, that hurt Harlan more than anything from the Leslie Co. game to the end of the season. So yes, ground game is important, but you run the ball and stop the run with good offensive and defensive lineman, which was the point that I eluded to in my previous post. That's where the Dragons need to improve, and if they do, look for Harlan to make a deep run with that Senior Class in 2012!

Those were pretty silly examples trying to make your point big guy! Nothing is an automatic win. Bama is really good at the run and stopping the run hence they win a lot more than they lose! Next, who could beat Highlands? Point being Harlan didn't want to run the ball! They didn't work on running the ball!
Everybody has laid the blame on the kids up front but how do you get better at something when all you do is pass block?

[UKFan8]

Those were pretty silly examples trying to make your point big guy! Nothing is an automatic win. Bama is really good at the run and stopping the run hence they win a lot more than they lose! Next, who could beat Highlands? Point being Harlan didn't want to run the ball! They didn't work on running the ball!
Everybody has laid the blame on the kids up front but how do you get better at something when all you do is pass block?

Go back and look at the stats. The first part of the year @ Pikeville, Williamsburg, and @ Middlesboro Harlan had plenty of success running the football. In the Leslie Co. game, Demarcus Williams got banged up a little and it changed Harlan's season! I agree you must be able to run the football, and I was slightly disappointed that Harlan didn't run Cody Logan out of the halfback/wingback position more sort of like they did Ben Cornett a few years ago. They had a lot of success that way, but this year, I agree that they did get pass happy at times. However, in Coach Donahue's defense, he understood Demarcus was not completely healthy and I feel like that forced him to pass much more than he would've liked.

Bottom line is Harlan had some strong offensive and defensive lineman such as Chasteen and Turbyfill. Another key for Harlan was losing Kenny Witt. That REALLY hurt the Dragons running attack and defensive front. With his addition, the Dragons would have been much more successful in both areas. However, the key, as I clearly mentioned before is the fact that Harlan did not have ANY depth at these positions and most kids had to play both ways. That and the injuries piling up doomed the Dragons from what could've been a run to remember in Class A this season.

As for my examples, I'm pretty sure Trinity, Bowling Green, John Hardin, and several other teams could beat Highlands. They're certainly not unbeatable! Any other thought would be simply obtuse!

[Backwoods]

Everybody keeps talking about Williams being the go to runner for Harlan when Cody logan was the real go to guy all year and they barely used him in the Williamsburg game. It untill the 4th when the Williams kid got mad for him to try and run like we know he can. He had 2 runs in the 4th and he looked like D1 back running up the middle. We haven't seen that since Pikeville. A good offensive team will find a play that works and run it till the defense stops it. Remember the Corbin game. They found a hole on the right side of the defensive front and ran it all game long. I think that #19 had 363 YD's on like 37 carries and the majority of those carries went through that same hole. In the Williamsburg game the play calling was all over the place. In every game we lost the play calling was awful. They ran a toss to the left side and got about 8 or 9 YD's with Cody Logan and never went back to it till late in the 4th. They ran about 15 YD pass to David Allen a couple times and once to Vince and got big yardage each time but only ran it those 3 times. We had one replacement lineman in that game and he was a capable replacement. The line just didn't get it done and that's offensive and defensive. The QB was sacked more times in that game than any all season. Williamsburg was so small. I bet they had at least 7 players that wouldn't wiegh 160 lbs soaking wet. We were way bigger than they were. The smallest team we played all year. But they were big in heart. If we had played with that kind of determination we would have won like the first time. It was a loss that took coaches and player's to pull out. I'll also say this,I personally saw one of the two players that claimed to have concussions talking and laughing and having a big ole time while his teammates were out there getting their butt's handed to them. The other one,I truly believe has a problem and if what I hear about him having several concussion episodes in middle school ball is true then as a parent I would have to be asking myself is it worth it. I would hate to see him get permantly injured over a football game. Then you got one of the best defensive players on the sidelines because he can't get his grades in to play. Someone needs to light a fire under his tale,if you know what I mean. Like I said it took the whole team to lose this game. Williamsburg did play a flawless game but the team we had down there should have won it's plain and simple. Bad coaching and bad effort on the part of several player's. But not all. I saw some of the guy's play thier hearts out. But it takes all 11 to get it done. These problems need to be addressed by next season or the best group of players Harlan High School has seen in a long time will be lucky to get 6 wins next season. That would be a shame. We should be in Bowlingreen next year.

[Bibbs]

If you are going to say that it is the coach's/coaches' fault then say it. Don't beat around the bush. I think that they all share equal blame; however, the coach can only prepare players. If it was a bad game plan then that is the coaches' fault, but if it was a good game plan that was not executed then that is the kids' fault.

Obviously you didn't read my post. I think its multiple factors. I can say it any way I choose.

[Bibbs]

In this case, could it not have just been that Williamsburg played really well? Williamsburg has a really young team, yet a very talented team. They are riding a wave of momentum, they were playing at home, and all of those young kids have bought into Coach Herron and his staff. Congratulations to Williamsburg for that!

As for Harlan, I would say that the Williamsburg and Middlesboro games were their best of the season, but I wouldn't necessarily say they peaked then, rather I would say those were the games that they had their complete "unit" and were at full strength. I saw kids out there trying and battling that were injured and probably wouldn't have been playing if they had worthy replacements. I guess I just don't see this as anyone's "fault", but rather I see this as a really young team playing at home with a ton of confidence right now that are just now learning and buying into their coach's system. This is not a discredit to Williamsburg, but when Harlan was playing at home, completely healthy, it was a different story. Playing on the road in the playoffs is not easy, especially against a hot, confident team. Harlan will be fine, especially next year where again, I could see the Dragons going deep into the playoffs. However, the key, is getting over that hump and defeating Hazard so that you get multiple playoff games at home. Then, you have a chance to make some real noise in the playoffs. However, I thought this was the year that Harlan could compete with Hazard with the way they battled over at Daniel Field two years ago and then, this year, coming back with a veteran squad playing at home. The task will be a little tougher next year winning at Hazard. But, Harlan will have a ton of seniors, good skill kids, and I agree with HDE, if they can get a little stronger up front and a little more depth up front (which I really feel is the key), then look for good things from the Dragons in 2012!

Until then,best of luck Williamsburg in the Regional Finals and congratulationsh to Coach Jerry Herron and staff! You guys earned it!

No doubt the Burg boys had much to do with this particular games as well, they and their Coaches deserve a lot of credit.

[wildone89]

Everybody keeps talking about Williams being the go to runner for Harlan when Cody logan was the real go to guy all year and they barely used him in the Williamsburg game. It untill the 4th when the Williams kid got mad for him to try and run like we know he can. He had 2 runs in the 4th and he looked like D1 back running up the middle. We haven't seen that since Pikeville. A good offensive team will find a play that works and run it till the defense stops it. Remember the Corbin game. They found a hole on the right side of the defensive front and ran it all game long. I think that #19 had 363 YD's on like 37 carries and the majority of those carries went through that same hole. In the Williamsburg game the play calling was all over the place. In every game we lost the play calling was awful. They ran a toss to the left side and got about 8 or 9 YD's with Cody Logan and never went back to it till late in the 4th. They ran about 15 YD pass to David Allen a couple times and once to Vince and got big yardage each time but only ran it those 3 times. We had one replacement lineman in that game and he was a capable replacement. The line just didn't get it done and that's offensive and defensive. The QB was sacked more times in that game than any all season. Williamsburg was so small. I bet they had at least 7 players that wouldn't wiegh 160 lbs soaking wet. We were way bigger than they were. The smallest team we played all year. But they were big in heart. If we had played with that kind of determination we would have won like the first time. It was a loss that took coaches and player's to pull out. I'll also say this,I personally saw one of the two players that claimed to have concussions talking and laughing and having a big ole time while his teammates were out there getting their butt's handed to them. The other one,I truly believe has a problem and if what I hear about him having several concussion episodes in middle school ball is true then as a parent I would have to be asking myself is it worth it. I would hate to see him get permantly injured over a football game. Then you got one of the best defensive players on the sidelines because he can't get his grades in to play. Someone needs to light a fire under his tale,if you know what I mean. Like I said it took the whole team to lose this game. Williamsburg did play a flawless game but the team we had down there should have won it's plain and simple. Bad coaching and bad effort on the part of several player's. But not all. I saw some of the guy's play thier hearts out. But it takes all 11 to get it done. These problems need to be addressed by next season or the best group of players Harlan High School has seen in a long time will be lucky to get 6 wins next season. That would be a shame. We should be in Bowlingreen next year.

I don't disagree with your first sentence at all. However, it just proves my point that I was trying to prove to ukfan8. I looked back and the first 6 games Login had 2, 7, 3,3,5 and 5 rushing attempts per khsaa. They didn't try to run the ball!

[Backwoods]

^I said before that Harlan would live by the pass and they would die by the pass. It came true. Harlan doesn't need to be so one dimensional. JB has traditionally been a run first coach and I think they should go first to the run to set up the passing game. We certainly have the athlete's to do it.

[UKFan8]

^I said before that Harlan would live by the pass and they would die by the pass. It came true. Harlan doesn't need to be so one dimensional. JB has traditionally been a run first coach and I think they should go first to the run to set up the passing game. We certainly have the athlete's to do it.

I would agree with that statement. Again, I thought whenever they used Cody Logan in the role that Ben Cornett had back a couple of years ago running out of that halfback/wingback position with a lot of traps and counters, Harlan had success running the football i.e. Middlesboro, Williamsburg, Pikeville.

I do think Harlan got pass happy at times, but when things were going well, it was kinda hard to question the play calling. I think everyone would agree.

[Backwoods]

I would agree with that statement. Again, I thought whenever they used Cody Logan in the role that Ben Cornett had back a couple of years ago running out of that halfback/wingback position with a lot of traps and counters, Harlan had success running the football i.e. Middlesboro, Williamsburg, Pikeville.

I do think Harlan got pass happy at times, but when things were going well, it was kinda hard to question the play calling. I think everyone would agree.

When Saragas is on his game there's nobody better but,when he's off his game,and all QB's are from time to time,we struggled because we had no backup plan. The coach should have saw that at the Leslie Co. game and took steps to fix the problem. Actually,he was off a little in the game before against Lynn Camp but it didn't show so bad because we were just so much stronger than they were.Hind sight is 20/20 I guess though. I hope that next year JB goes to a more traditional style of running set that we can pass from too. Also, when I pick my kid's up from school I've noticed that there are several large and athletic type young men emerging from the school door's when the bell rings and they are not on the football team. What's up with that? I think JB and staff should be recruiting these kid's to play. We could have had an offensive line as big or bigger than Harlan Co.'s. I'd like to see some of these kid's play. It's ashame that at the height of the injuries,this season,we were down 24 player's of which only about 15 or 16 saw any playing time.

[HDE]

These problems need to be addressed by next season or the best group of players Harlan High School has seen in a long time will be lucky to get 6 wins next season. That would be a shame. We should be in Bowlingreen next year.

I have my doubts whether the group is good as 96 or 99. I don't think they've proven yet they are better than the Chase Jones-Aaron Jones-Josh Johnson group from four or five years ago.

[Backwoods]

I have my doubts whether the group is good as 96 or 99. I don't think they've proven yet they are better than the Chase Jones-Aaron Jones-Josh Johnson group from four or five years ago.

That's the key word HDE. Can they be better than that group? I think so. Have they proven to be better than that group or even the year before last? NO,they haven't and until they decide they have something to PROVE nothing is gonna change. Last year in the second half of the season they played like they had something to prove and somewhere along the way they lost it. Over the off season they have got to do some soul searching and get that back. I don't think Williamsburg has any better athlete's than we do. As a matter of fact I think we have more and better but,Williamsburg has the one thing we don't and that is the intense desire to play football and to get better every game. When I played wild horses couldn't have drug us off that field or made us give up. I still have dreams about being at a game and dressed except I can't find my helmet and I am frantically searching for it so I can go in and play. That's how it affected me. Now I know there are some that want it but,there are a few that don't and we have to have everybody playing as one unit with one goal. That includes the coaches too. I think we need to find out what we're good at and work to get great at it. I think that will be the difference in checking out in the second round next season or making a deep run. Look at Pikeville. At the beginning of the season we were as good as them or better but,they continued to get better every game and look where they are now and look at where we are now. I want these boy's to be in Pikeville's position next year.