[fb fan]

What do you all think? How many private / independent schools will be in the finals from 1A - 6A ?? And how many public county schools will make it.

[Jarons]

Independent schools are public schools.

[fb fan]

you know what I mean. Schools districts where you can't chose what school you go to. You know like school districts with ony one high school, where everyone has to go to a particular school without having the opportunity to chose. Probably most would be county schools.

[Jarons]

I went to an independent school k-12. I had no choice which school to go.

[Stardust]

What is Mayfield, Central, Paducah Tighlman, Lone Oak, Collins, Bowling Green, John Hadin

[fb fan]

forget it

[Stardust]

I went to an independent school k-12. I had no choice which school to go.

All 13 in the one room school???:biggrin:

[Iam4thecats]

The only public schools I know of who won't accept out of district students are Oldham county schools. I don't think any Oldham county schools will be in the finals.

[fb fan]

I would assume independent. Not sure though. Lets just change it then. How many private schools will make it to the finals?

[RoShamBo]

Aren't all of the schools left in the bottom two classes either private or independent?

[toussaints]

This looks like a trap into a public v. private thread... I'll take my chances

No matter who gets there, 3A and 5A will only have public school teams there since all the teams left in those brackets are public.

1A, 4A, and 6A will have atleast a public school team at the finals since each class has all public teams left on one half of the bracket (1A southeast, 4A west, 6A Trinity & St.X are the only 2 private schools left and they play each other this week).

The only possible private vs. private matchup at state could happen in 2A since 5 of the 8 remaining teams are private schools.

[Wideleft01]

This looks like a trap into a public v. private thread... I'll take my chances

No matter who gets there, 3A and 5A will only have public school teams there since all the teams left in those brackets are public.

1A, 4A, and 6A will have atleast a public school team at the finals since each class has all public teams left on one half of the bracket (1A southeast, 4A west, 6A Trinity & St.X are the only 2 private schools left and they play each other this week).

The only possible private vs. private matchup at state could happen in 2A since 5 of the 8 remaining teams are private schools.

And 2A is the weakest class by far.

[RoShamBo]

Lol, ^surprised it took you so long.

[Harry Doyle]

This somewhat goes along with your question, but I've been researching this the past week or so and since 1998, there have been 120 teams play for KHSAA Football State Championships and 111 of them have fallen into one and/or both of these categories:

1) Private (X, T, DeSales, NewCath, O'Cath, etc)
2) Independent (Mayfield, Danville, Highlands, Beechwood, etc.)
3) Louisville/Jefferson County (Male, Lou. Centrals)
4) Lexington/Fayette County (Bryan Station, Tates Creek)
5) NKY (Boone, Kenton, Campbell)
6) Communities (city and county's) of > 30,000 people

I don't have the exact numbers for each at the moment, but Ill post them asap. I believe it was something like 76 of the 120 have been Private or Independent; again, from 1998-2010.

[Blau Vogel]

This somewhat goes along with your question, but I've been researching this the past week or so and since 1998, there have been 120 teams play for KHSAA Football State Championships and 111 of them have fallen into one and/or both of these categories:

1) Private (X, T, DeSales, NewCath, O'Cath, etc)
2) Independent (Mayfield, Danville, Highlands, Beechwood, etc.)
3) Louisville/Jefferson County (Male, Lou. Centrals)
4) Lexington/Fayette County (Bryan Station, Tates Creek)
5) NKY (Boone, Kenton, Campbell)
6) Communities (city and county's) of > 30,000 people

I don't have the exact numbers for each at the moment, but Ill post them asap. I believe it was something like 76 of the 12 0 have been Private or Independent; again, from 1998-2010.

You only have 3 different sets here.
A) Private
B) Public *independent school districts which includes the city schools in #6
C) County schools which include every one in #'s 3, 4, 5 and county's in 6

*Independent doesn't mean PRIVATE, restricted, or that they will accept out of district students, although some do. Independent simply means they are independent from the county school. Here in Campbell County, we have 1 county school (Campbell County) and 6 independent school districts (Newport, Bellevue, Dayton, Fort Thomas, Silver Grove, Southgate) Depending upon their situation, ALL schools (county or independent) are able to decide if they will accept out of district students.

If I understand it right, the perfect example of this, is here in NoKY. Boone County has 4 county schools with very strict boundaries. If you live in Conner's district, you can't go to Ryle. Kenton County also has 4 county schools. However, any student living in the county can attend any school in the county as long as they can arrange transportation, in other words if you live in the area where the school bus that would pick you up drops off at Dixie, it won't make a special trip to Simon Kenton just for you.

[FBfan4life]

Independent schools are public schools.

As Lee Corso would say " No so fast my friend "... Independent school of course are public, but they set no boundaries along their district. So student that resides in the county can enroll to an indepedent school for a fee. In other words. Out of district student.

[charlie22]

As Lee Corso would say " No so fast my friend "... Independent school of course are public, but they set no boundaries along their district. So student that resides in the county can enroll to an indepedent school for a fee. In other words. Out of district student.

And not so fast to you either: Independent school have definite defined boundaries for their district. Independent schools can, if they wish accept OOD students. However, County schools are also permitted to accept OOD students if they wish. I'm not sure how many do, but it's my understanding that many do.

It amazes me, after so many years and threads discussing the public private school issue, that a whole lot of people (not necessarily you) still think:

1. Independent schools are not public schools. Yes, they are. Their school boundaries, school board, administration and local tax system are just "independent" of the county school system. That is the only distinction from the other type of public school: the county school. Both are subject to the same rules and regs of the Ky Dept of Education.

2. All independent schools accept OOD students and no county schools accept OOD students. That's false. My guess is that most independents accept OOD students, but I have no idea if all do. There have been times when due to space limitations that Ft. Thomas did not accept OOD students. No state law obligates them to accept OOD students. It's the independent school board's decision. Some county schools also accept OOD students. Not sure how many, but as noted above, I believe many do. And it's not just county schools in the urban areas that accept OOD students. County schools are obviously permitted under the state education laws to accept OOD students if the county school board elects to do so. I know of no good reason why they wouldn't want to accept OOD students other than lack of space. If a county school district had 10 empty seats in each classroom, why not get the tuition from 10 OOD students that could be used to offset the fixed costs of heating the school building, paying the janitors and teachers, etc? As long as the 10 extra students didn't create more costs than the 10 tuitions generated, it's financial stupidity not to allow them to attend. If the County school you support via your taxes doesn't allow OOD, tuition paying students, you should be at the next school board meeting asking: Why not?

3. Independents and/or privates don't have to follow the same KHSAA rules that the publics do. That's false. The transfer rule and every other KHSAA rule apply equally to all member schools.

4. Third parties are permitted to pay the tuition of OOD students or students attending private schools. They are not. Recently a private school was sanctioned by the KHSAA for allowing need based financial aid to be provided by a third party. All need based financial aid must be provided through a system mandated by the KHSAA and the amount of need based financial aid must be determined by an independent company that is on an approved KHSAA list. All merit aid must be made available to all students in the school (not just athletes) through a competitive application and the selection of the recipients must be based on published objective criteria. The academic assessment or placement test used to determine who gets the merit aid must be approved in advance by the KHSAA.

5. A student can receive full tuition in the form of merit based financial aid. No they can't. It's limited to 25% of the cost of the tuition.

6. Every one attending a private school can receive merit based financial aid. Again, no they can't. Merit based aid is limited, in addition to the rules associated with the assessment and test mentioned in point 4 above, to the greater of 5% of the student body or 5 students.

If you hear of someone repeating those falsehoods, they are wrong. You can believe me. I was on the KHSAA Board of Control for two terms and only recently left the Board. I've got the dang rule book in front of me as I type this post.

[nky]

All 13 in the one room school???:biggrin:

now that's a big room

[FBfan4life]

And not so fast to you either: Independent school have definite defined boundaries for their district. Independent schools can, if they wish accept OOD students. However, County schools are also permitted to accept OOD students if they wish. I'm not sure how many do, but it's my understanding that many do.

It amazes me, after so many years and threads discussing the public private school issue, that a whole lot of people (not necessarily you) still think:

1. Independent schools are not public schools. Yes, they are. Their school boundaries, school board, administration and local tax system are just "independent" of the county school system. That is the only distinction from the other type of public school: the county school. Both are subject to the same rules and regs of the Ky Dept of Education.

2. All independent schools accept OOD students and no county schools accept OOD students. That's false. My guess is that most independents accept OOD students, but I have no idea if all do. There have been times when due to space limitations that Ft. Thomas did not accept OOD students. No state law obligates them to accept OOD students. It's the independent school board's decision. Some county schools also accept OOD students. Not sure how many, but as noted above, I believe many do. And it's not just county schools in the urban areas that accept OOD students. County schools are obviously permitted under the state education laws to accept OOD students if the county school board elects to do so. I know of no good reason why they wouldn't want to accept OOD students other than lack of space. If a county school district had 10 empty seats in each classroom, why not get the tuition from 10 OOD students that could be used to offset the fixed costs of heating the school building, paying the janitors and teachers, etc? As long as the 10 extra students didn't create more costs than the 10 tuitions generated, it's financial stupidity not to allow them to attend. If the County school you support via your taxes doesn't allow OOD, tuition paying students, you should be at the next school board meeting asking: Why not?

3. Independents and/or privates don't have to follow the same KHSAA rules that the publics do. That's false. The transfer rule and every other KHSAA rule apply equally to all member schools.

4. Third parties are permitted to pay the tuition of OOD students or students attending private schools. They are not. Recently a private school was sanctioned by the KHSAA for allowing need based financial aid to be provided by a third party. All need based financial aid must be provided through a system mandated by the KHSAA and the amount of need based financial aid must be determined by an independent company that is on an approved KHSAA list. All merit aid must be made available to all students in the school (not just athletes) through a competitive application and the selection of the recipients must be based on published objective criteria. The academic assessment or placement test used to determine who gets the merit aid must be approved in advance by the KHSAA.

5. A student can receive full tuition in the form of merit based financial aid. No they can't. It's limited to 25% of the cost of the tuition.

6. Every one attending a private school can receive merit based financial aid. Again, no they can't. Merit based aid is limited, in addition to the rules associated with the assessment and test mentioned in point 4 above, to the greater of 5% of the student body or 5 students.

If you hear of someone repeating those falsehoods, they are wrong. You can believe me. I was on the KHSAA Board of Control for two terms and only recently left the Board. I've got the dang rule book in front of me as I type this post.

Too much post to read, but from what I read. You are correct. I have no problem with private/ public system. My thing is...to be the best, you have to beat the best. Private or public.

[nky]

As Lee Corso would say " No so fast my friend "... Independent school of course are public, but they set no boundaries along their district. So student that resides in the county can enroll to an independent school for a fee. In other words. Out of district student.

Open enrollment as it is called is a local issue. Any school board my choose to permit out of district students to enroll. They also set the fee that is paid.

[charlie22]

Too much post to read, but from what I read. You are correct. I have no problem with private/ public system. My thing is...to be the best, you have to beat the best. Private or public.

Could not agree more with you. As I've posted before, my older son's team got eliminated from the playoffs his junior year by LexCath; his senior year by CovCath. I had and have no problem with it. No grumbling about the private school advantages from me.

[Backwoods]

Harlan Ind. and Harlan Co. accept OOD students,but,they must pay the set tuitions for each school.

[Blau Vogel]

I could be wrong, but I think at one time, if a student lived in the city limits of Danville, they could not attend Boyle County and if they lived outside of the city limits, they could not attend Danville. Was this ever or is it still the case?

[fb fan]

Good for you Charlie 22. But we all know that it is impossible for most school districts to compete with this with the current status quo. My school district has ONE high school. And most in our area ony have ONE high school. Therefore the student athlete cannot pick and chose which school they wish to attend. And the coaches do not have the luxury to humbly ask or get to know a REALLY good student athlete in the area. Notice I didn't say (recruit). We have students that live 20 plus miles from the nearest high school so transportation is always an issue. I'm through with even discussing this I guess. People that serve on KHSAA like yourself need to really look at this a bit further is all I am requesting. But thank you for serving though. I realize how difficult it is to serve on any board like this. And I do truly thank you for your service to the kids of our great state.

[lochocinco]

And 2A is the weakest class by far.

By what standard?

[lochocinco]

Aren't all of the schools left in the bottom two classes either private or independent?

In Class A, most of the schools are independent or private. The same is true in 2A, but maybe not to the same extent.

[Harry Doyle]

You only have 3 different sets here.
A) Private
B) Public *independent school districts which includes the city schools in #6
C) County schools which include every one in #'s 3, 4, 5 and county's in 6

*Independent doesn't mean PRIVATE, restricted, or that they will accept out of district students, although some do. Independent simply means they are independent from the county school. Here in Campbell County, we have 1 county school (Campbell County) and 6 independent school districts (Newport, Bellevue, Dayton, Fort Thomas, Silver Grove, Southgate) Depending upon their situation, ALL schools (county or independent) are able to decide if they will accept out of district students.If I understand it right, the perfect example of this, is here in NoKY. Boone County has 4 county schools with very strict boundaries. If you live in Conner's district, you can't go to Ryle. Kenton County also has 4 county schools. However, any student living in the county can attend any school in the county as long as they can arrange transportation, in other words if you live in the area where the school bus that would pick you up drops off at Dixie, it won't make a special trip to Simon Kenton just for you.

I fully realize and understand the difference between independent and private:Thumbs: All good, seriously. This is one of these examples where interpreting this through text is leading to misunderstanding.

I was just more or less pointing out that not only are the Privates and Independents representing the majority of state finalists, but the rest of the publics are coming from relatively populated areas.

[RunItUpTheGut]

Play where your suppose to and dont worry about how bad the school you may or may not have to go to sucks.

Take a little pride in your hometown school and get your numbers out to play football and things will change.
Nobody cares anymore in certain communities and thats why certain parts of the state is awful at football.

[1spiritedfan]

By what standard?

By the "Wideleft/Highlands" standards!!! It's a jealousy thing!

[toussaints]

This looks like a trap into a public v. private thread... I'll take my chances.

Momma told me not to play with fire. I didn't listen to momma and look what happened.

Here's how I define the difference between public and private schools;
- Public schools knowingly recieve tax dollars from the state, county, or city government.
- Private schools do not recieve tax dollars from any government.

IMO, all county and independent schools are public. Everyone else is private